One Year Later

[HeatherK08]

It's been one year since the MM and I first met for drinks after work.

 

I think my posts might be around from when we first started seeing each other. But basically it went like this:

 

MM and I work together, he was my boss, but I have since left his department (because of my other boss whom I detested). After I left I realized that I had feelings for him, he was not someone I would naturally go for. There was definitely a connection but there was never flirting between us. While working with him I could tell he wasn't happy in life except for his kids. I missed him very much and found myself starting to make excuses to be on his floor, or to run into him. I hadn't seen him in two months when one day I was covering reception on his floor and I saw him and there was an instant pounding in my heart. I started spending time on his floor (mysteriously!) and he asked me out for drinks one night. He is not the smooth operator, and is fairly religious (Orthodox Jew), and has been married for 17 years, 3 kids.

 

It's been a very very long struggle. He moved out very early into our affair, but moved back after a family vacation. They went to couple's counseling for the third time and I waited for him to make a decision. It was pure agony, but I felt like it would all be worth it in the end.

 

He has since told her he wants a divorce, moved out permanently, the lawyers are working out a custody agreement for the kids, and we went to look at and he bought our future home

I've met his parents and he has been building a relationship with my kids.

Every day I am incredibly moved by the love we share together.

I do not recommend this kind of relationship to anyone and believe it's only worth it if you truly believe and know it will be worth it.

Lucky for me he was very open and let me see his email accounts and exchanges with her and hear phone conversations and meet his therapist, etc. I read a lot of posts where women are waiting for them to leave but never get this kind of openness and are being strung along and I can only imagine the pain

 

But here is to hope that we will all find our partner in life and go after our dreams.

[jj33]

Congratulations.

 

The big difference between your situation and most of what you read on here is

 

1 He moved out early on - he went back at one point but he moved out because he didnt want to be in an affair he realized he wanted to be with you.

 

2. He didnt string you along.

 

3. He was open about everything.

 

There are few exceptions but in most cases where people are strung along for a long time its because the man is not leaving to be with them. Thats why they are being strung along.

 

Its up to them to leave and see what he really wants or to continue to be strung along.

[HeatherK08]

Congratulations.

 

The big difference between your situation and most of what you read on here is

 

1 He moved out early on - he went back at one point but he moved out because he didnt want to be in an affair he realized he wanted to be with you.

 

2. He didnt string you along.

 

3. He was open about everything.

 

There are few exceptions but in most cases where people are strung along for a long time its because the man is not leaving to be with them. Thats why they are being strung along.

 

Its up to them to leave and see what he really wants or to continue to be strung along.

 

Thanks.

 

When I used to post here though, no matter how many examples of his openness I gave, I was constantly told that I was being strung along, that these things never work out and if they do they are a complete mess.

 

I hear a lot of them do the knee jerk reaction, move out and then move back in.

 

I do think if I had not put my foot down he would have tried to cake eat for a while longer. He made his decision around the end of July, so about 9 months after we started seeing each other. I told him I deserved a real relationship and said I would start to see other people. He knew I was serious and knew by that time his marriage was not going to work.

 

I think you have to be willing to give it all up for your own self respect and if you're not willing to do that, you're just accepting half of a relationship and letting him procrastinate the decision which can cause major harm to any relationship you could have.

 

We still have a long way to go, he is re-learning how to be a good boyfriend and I'm learning to have a more adult relationship and ask for what I need.

[jj33]

Nine months is a good amount of time. That was how long I lasted. No more.

 

Its a big deal for someone Orthodox to divorce big big potential community backlash. And he has children who I assume are still at home.

 

I hope it continues to go well for you.

[frannie]

Hello, good to hear your story . I'm glad you pointed out that despite your MM being one who left you still heard the same thing time and again when posting on the board: it never works out, etc. And its very hard to know which ones are going to leave and which ones arent.

 

When do we wait, when do we give up, what should we do: keep out of the divorce, or push for results..? So...

 

I do think if I had not put my foot down he would have tried to cake eat for a while longer. He made his decision around the end of July, so about 9 months after we started seeing each other. I told him I deserved a real relationship and said I would start to see other people. He knew I was serious and knew by that time his marriage was not going to work.

 

I'm just wondering: did he feel like you were pushing him, since this was the angle you took (rather than just waiting and seeing or whatever)? Lots of OW on this board say that they wouldn't want to have any part in influencing a divorce, because of being seen as a 'homewrecker', or guilt, or worry that later on he will blame them for forcing his hand. Did you feel any of that, or has he mentioned anything about it? Or was/is he happy you made your feelings known and happy to act so as not to lose you?

 

Thanks for posting your story.

[HeatherK08]

Hello, good to hear your story . I'm glad you pointed out that despite your MM being one who left you still heard the same thing time and again when posting on the board: it never works out, etc. And its very hard to know which ones are going to leave and which ones arent.

 

When do we wait, when do we give up, what should we do: keep out of the divorce, or push for results..? So...

 

 

 

I'm just wondering: did he feel like you were pushing him, since this was the angle you took (rather than just waiting and seeing or whatever)? Lots of OW on this board say that they wouldn't want to have any part in influencing a divorce, because of being seen as a 'homewrecker', or guilt, or worry that later on he will blame them for forcing his hand. Did you feel any of that, or has he mentioned anything about it? Or was/is he happy you made your feelings known and happy to act so as not to lose you?

 

Thanks for posting your story.

 

Hi

 

It was a delicate balance. I would not verbally push him and let him know I wasn't pressuring him and understood if he couldn't go all the way with this. But I valued my own feelings more than his or hers and that's what made me draw lines in the sand. I knew that right away he would not just leave his family, so I didn't go ballistic when he said they needed to continue marriage counseling, etc. But I think I've always known deep down that he doesn't love her anymore, and that just knowing there is a deeper kind of love out there was not something he could turn his back on. He had been working on his own issues for three years with his own therapist, so I think he was growing emotionally and she wasn't. Once you taste that kind of freedom and don't let other people control your life or let guilt control your life, you can't go back.

 

I think I drew those lines so I wouldn't turn into a crazed OW desperate for validation with a MM. I've been married and divorced, cheated on, played the field, etc. I know the difference between infatuation, exit affairs, cake eating, etc., all of it is behavior that doesn't solve anything, usually employed to stay in a marriage...but what it comes down to is their personal decision to stay or go, and nothing you say or do can control that outcome. I do think being calm about it and not obsessed, but being confident and ready to move on if need be is essential to the OW's mental health and doesn't make the MM feel so pressured while they are getting to know each other. I went on the recommendation of waiting for one year, laid down my due date, and followed through when the time came.

 

With the BS the bottom line is most of them will always see you as a homewrecker because it's easier to blame someone else for a failed marriage than to have some self-reflection and take responsibility for it. Man does she hate me, but if this makes it easier for her to deal with then the fact that he just doesn't want to be with her anymore, than oh well. She'll either live out the rest of her life bitter and angry or move on and find the kind of happiness she should have. I have already felt as much guilt as a person could feel in this situation, but I do not regret loving him and showing him another way to live. He is an adult and makes his own decisions, if he thinks at any point that this is wrong for him, he'll make that decision too.

[OWoman]

Congratulations.

 

The big difference between your situation and most of what you read on here is

 

1 He moved out early on - he went back at one point but he moved out because he didnt want to be in an affair he realized he wanted to be with you.

 

2. He didnt string you along.

 

3. He was open about everything.

 

There are few exceptions but in most cases where people are strung along for a long time its because the man is not leaving to be with them. Thats why they are being strung along.

 

Its up to them to leave and see what he really wants or to continue to be strung along.

 

Just on this point - of the "success stories" one reads here, this tends to be the exception rather than the rule. More typically, a MM will only leave his W after knowing and being with the OW for some time, and thinking through very carefully what it is he needs to do. (I'm not suggesting, Heather, that your MM didn't think things through carefully; but typically, most MMs who do leave and settle down long term with their OWs seem to take longer about the process than yours did.)

 

Three years seems to be a recurring refrain in many such posts. Though, I guess, it all depends on the circumstances. Some MMs may leave immediately on meeting the "right" OW; others, like my father, wait for years until the conditions are right (kids grown) before doing so. I guess it's up to each OW to decide for herself what she wants and how long she's prepared to wait for it.

[OWoman]

When I used to post here though, no matter how many examples of his openness I gave, I was constantly told that I was being strung along, that these things never work out and if they do they are a complete mess.

 

Yep - we OWs can never win, and even if we do, karma will zap us next time round 'cos we're just so evil we have it coming.

 

Great to hear it all worked out well, Heather - and welcome to the success story club!

[HeatherK08]

I do wish you all the best, but it is impossible to know for certain who is at fault in the breakdown of a marriage unless you are one of the people involved.

 

Once you and your MM have been living together, sharing the drudgery of everyday life along with kid problems and bills and he DOESN'T move on to someone new and fresh after some time, THEN I would be feeling more confident if I were in your position.

 

Once again, good luck! I hope yours is a success story.

 

How can anyone feel that confident in any marriage then? Your logic is warped. I should wait 20 years to know we love each other and will be together for a long time? I'm sure they both contributed to the failure of the marriage. As I contributed to the failure of mine, however, there does come a point when one is working in marriage counseling and the other is resistant to do anything to change. My exH was like that and so is his W. I've heard her on the phone, read her emails to him...

 

I know what it's like, the every day drudgery, the bills, the kids, etc. We've been living together for a while now, and I'm divorced, and have had long term relationships, and this is by far the best relationship I've ever had. We are already proactive about building a strong foundation, we go to couples counseling, have date nights, and tell each other how we're feeling when things come up. Perfect? No, but damn near...

[HeatherK08]

Yep - we OWs can never win, and even if we do, karma will zap us next time round 'cos we're just so evil we have it coming.

 

Great to hear it all worked out well, Heather - and welcome to the success story club!

 

LOL you got it right...thanks. I saw the quote around here that says it perfectly: "Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo." ~ H. G. Wells

 

And those are the same ones who 5 years down the line could be posting their own OW stories...hardly anyone sets out to love a MP, and man does it hurt, but when they love you back and are ready to be with you it's the most wonderful joy on earth

[HeatherK08]

But he cheated. There is that. I would be wary. That's all I'm sayin'. You can call my logic warped, but I doubt most people enter a marriage or a relationship with a known cheater. He's a known cheater.

 

And, once again, good luck and I do hope it is all wonderful. And no - NOTHING is perfect.

 

It's rare that people just up and say, "I want a divorce", and then go on to date other people, divorce is pretty scary and sometimes you don't know if it's the right thing until someone else comes along. But people don't just go out and cheat, unless they are sex addicts and the like - there have to be pre-set conditions for that to happen. He wasn't cheating through their whole marriage, or having one night stands or meeting people at bars, etc, I was the one who pursued him and he gave a good fight with himself before allowing me in. Even with the almost impossible man that I married years ago, I didn't feel the urge to cheat until he started to be very mean and cold. And even then when I had the urge and opportunity to cheat, I still didn't and removed myself from the situation and got divorced. But we had only been married for 2 years. I can't imagine 20 years like that, I'd have definitely cheated.

 

No marriage is immune from affairs, but there is so much you can do to have a fulfilling home life and I intend to make it happen and so does he! We both just want to settle into life together and share it peacefully, affairs rarely solve anything and just take up so much energy and guilt. Thanks for the well wishes.

[jj33]

OWoman I respect your views on this do you really think its 3 years. So 3 years of saying I am not leaving and then in rare instances they think it through some more and leave?

 

I know its a big decision but I guess it seems reading the threads (and we have not had any other hopeful stories except WS since I have joined) it seems that where the relationship was an A for more than a year or so and the OW didnt step back and give the MM some space to think about his life, it doesnt seem to go anywhere.

[frannie]

Thanks for responding (above), Heather, very interesting. Its good to have another positive story on the board. No doubt we'll be hearing how this gives others 'false hope' shortly

 

But he cheated. There is that. I would be wary. That's all I'm sayin'. You can call my logic warped, but I doubt most people enter a marriage or a relationship with a known cheater. He's a known cheater.

 

The thing is, whether this matters to someone forming a relationship with a 'known cheater' does depend a lot on whether you think cheating is situational or because of a person's character (or lack of it). Will someone who has cheated once cheat again? Then why would a BS ever take back a cheater, yet they do so time and again? With numbers available on infidelity suggesting that so MANY people cheat, what are the odds of finding someone who has never and would never cheat in any circumstance? Not good, I would imagine.

 

Yes, I do think that the behaviour needs to be addressed, questions asked about why it happened, communication worked on, and everything else which may prevent future cheating. I also think that being aware that just about anyone could cheat if they found themselves in certain circumstances is just being practical and forward-thinking.

 

I think the higher likelihood of cheating isn't necessarily with 'known cheaters' as much as it's with those who are convinced that their partner (or themselves) would never cheat. Because how many times do we read the thread title: "I never thought I would be... the OW/ cheating on my W... etc. etc."

[jwi71]

It's been one year since the MM and I first met for drinks after work.

 

I think my posts might be around from when we first started seeing each other. But basically it went like this:

 

MM and I work together, he was my boss, but I have since left his department (because of my other boss whom I detested). After I left I realized that I had feelings for him, he was not someone I would naturally go for. There was definitely a connection but there was never flirting between us. While working with him I could tell he wasn't happy in life except for his kids. I missed him very much and found myself starting to make excuses to be on his floor, or to run into him. I hadn't seen him in two months when one day I was covering reception on his floor and I saw him and there was an instant pounding in my heart. I started spending time on his floor (mysteriously!) and he asked me out for drinks one night. He is not the smooth operator, and is fairly religious (Orthodox Jew), and has been married for 17 years, 3 kids.

 

It's been a very very long struggle. He moved out very early into our affair, but moved back after a family vacation. They went to couple's counseling for the third time and I waited for him to make a decision. It was pure agony, but I felt like it would all be worth it in the end.

 

He has since told her he wants a divorce, moved out permanently, the lawyers are working out a custody agreement for the kids, and we went to look at and he bought our future home

I've met his parents and he has been building a relationship with my kids.

Every day I am incredibly moved by the love we share together.

I do not recommend this kind of relationship to anyone and believe it's only worth it if you truly believe and know it will be worth it.

Lucky for me he was very open and let me see his email accounts and exchanges with her and hear phone conversations and meet his therapist, etc. I read a lot of posts where women are waiting for them to leave but never get this kind of openness and are being strung along and I can only imagine the pain

 

But here is to hope that we will all find our partner in life and go after our dreams.

 

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. I wish you two the best, but just be careful with yourself.

[OWoman]

OWoman I respect your views on this do you really think its 3 years.

 

I can't recall exactly whose stories had which timelines, so forgive me if I get some wrong, but at one stage there were quite a few OWs posting to update and say their MMs had left and they were now together as BF&GF, which all seemed to have had a three year horizon approximately. IIRC, they included GEL, & Lyssa, and I guess my own had a similar kind of timescale...?

 

So 3 years of saying I am not leaving and then in rare instances they think it through some more and leave?

 

If they say they're not leaving, chances are they're not, IMO. Until they can actually conceive of leaving and can consider themselves living a life apart from their kids (and BW, and dog, and anyone else that may be keeping them in the family home - or the home itself), they're not ready to move on.

 

I know its a big decision but I guess it seems reading the threads (and we have not had any other hopeful stories except WS since I have joined) it seems that where the relationship was an A for more than a year or so and the OW didnt step back and give the MM some space to think about his life, it doesnt seem to go anywhere.

 

I think there's a very big risk of a long term A becoming comfortable for a certain kind of MM, making it easier to remain in his unsatisfactory M. But for others, as time goes on, the duplicity gets to them and becomes increasingly difficult to sustain. For the second kind, a choice one way or the other is inevitable. For the former, some drastic action (from either the OW going NC, or a DDay pushing the BW into delivering an ultimatum, or whatever) is often required to bring about change.

 

But I'm very wary of prescribing rules or guidelines - I'm a firm believer in cosidering each situation on its own merits, as the briefest outlines that one finds here seldom convey sufficient complexity to make for accurate prediction. (Aside from the godsquad who've decided we're all on our way to hell... )

[jj33]

LOL well of course our path to hell is paved and landscaped so we may as well enjoy it....

 

I would agree with everything you said. My heart goes out to so many of the posters here who say why wont he leave what do I have to do to get him to leave etc

 

It seems to me noone gets anyone to leave and no matter how bad the marriage may look to the OW or others they stay until they dont want to.

 

And no amount of scheming etc etc on the part of a 3rd party will move that date forward. Tho of course NC does force the man to look at what life is like without OW in his life.