sweetbutcheeky Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 I was talking with a guy I used to date and was asking him about the way he acted in the end and he said it was because he was going threw some rough times. I asked him why didn't he was tell me, talk about it. This was his response: Ah I never dump my problems in any ones lap it is rude and well just stuff I have to learn to deal with my self that is just the way it is. For women they like that kind of stuff I will be there for you and you be there for me kind of stuff, I am well a man and well I am more comfortable sorting things out as I always have. Trying to think about how to answer him because I know I will be talking to a wall because he will still think it's a girl thing and not listen. But I know it's unhealthy to keep things in. An ex of mine did that, never shared problems, said everything was cool until one day he lost it.
mojo5500 Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 I've learned that if he's still interested in you and you in him then it's better for him to keep his mouth shut. I'm all for communication but I've shared my problems with my girlfriend and it's come back to bite me in the butt. She then will use it against me in a argument that has nothing to do with her. Guys can also speak bluntly with other guys, with women we have to watch what we say because we're afraid on how it will be perceived.
carhill Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Just reading threads here about men being "clingy", "needy" and "whiny" should provide enough clues. I've always been one of those anomalies ( a man who is emotionally open) and, overwhelmingly, it has not served me well in the romance department. It is who I am and I'm not going to change, but it does limit the field of prospects who would otherwise find me attractive. That's the rub, the difference between "liking" someone and finding them "attractive". Plenty of women have liked me and I've had some great female friends with whom I've shared my problems and successes and shared theirs as well. Regardless of that, women need and are attracted to (and have told me this) a strong man who can accept a woman's emotional nature and balance it with his neutrality and quiet strength. This is where one must view a woman's actions as her truth, for her mouth speaks lies (not in the evil sense, but just not true to her actions). See, OP, I would never say something like you quoted in your OP because I think sharing emotions and personal issues is part of intimacy. Beware of getting what you want, for then you will want something else
Trialbyfire Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 My pet peeve!!!!!!!! Guys, the more you hide, the more likely the relationship's going to blow up in your face, when you start to show the real you. Better that non-compatibility is seen from the get-go, so no one wastes any time, emotion and ultimately emotional devastation when things crash and burn.
carhill Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Well, then, how is the guy supposed to get laid? :D
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted November 2, 2008 Author Posted November 2, 2008 There is a difference between being able to talk, chat about what is bothering you openly to get things off your chest and out of your head. And having an all out girlie cry fest. After my experience with my ex who held it all in I need a mad who can at lest tell me if he doesn't like something I did or can talk if something is wrong. If something is bothering in in life get it out there vs pestering and then exploding! I agree it is part of intimacy which if why I asked since we had dated for a few months, to me talking about problems, sharing with each other is part of it all. And no all woman don't hold it against you if you share your problems with them. Don't use one bad action from one woman from sharing your problems or anything your thinking/worried about in a relationship. My pet peeve!!!!!!!! Guys, the more you hide, the more likely the relationship's going to blow up in your face, when you start to show the real you. Better that non-compatibility is seen from the get-go, so no one wastes any time, emotion and ultimately emotional devastation when things crash and burn. At least it gave me an idea about this guy and someone explained his actions. (kinda) But also I know if he can't open up then he wasn't for me anyway. A guy who holds it all in and can't express anything to you is a turn off! So the sooner I know this the less time wasted.
carhill Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 And no all woman don't hold it against you if you share your problems with them. Don't use one bad action from one woman from sharing your problems or anything your thinking/worried about in a relationship. You may find it to be an interesting anecdote that the one woman who chose to marry me, after many years of my dating many women, was/is a woman who admits she's emotionally detached. Oddly (not really, but it might sound that way), her style compliments my emotional style of engagement perfectly, but even she wearies of such intimacy. As she said to our MC, she sometimes wishes I was a "normal" guy. Being married twice before, I trust her opinion of what a "normal" guy is So, I based my assertions on the actions and perceived viewpoints of many rather than one. Of course, with billions of females in the world, my sample size is still exceedingly small. I'm working on that
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted November 2, 2008 Author Posted November 2, 2008 You may find it to be an interesting anecdote that the one woman who chose to marry me, after many years of my dating many women, was/is a woman who admits she's emotionally detached. Oddly (not really, but it might sound that way), her style compliments my emotional style of engagement perfectly, but even she wearies of such intimacy. As she said to our MC, she sometimes wishes I was a "normal" guy. Being married twice before, I trust her opinion of what a "normal" guy is So, I based my assertions on the actions and perceived viewpoints of many rather than one. Of course, with billions of females in the world, my sample size is still exceedingly small. I'm working on that It's not a problem if it works for both sides, since you said that your style complement each other. (though I don't really understand myself not being you) She said that sometimes she wishes you are a normal guy, does that still mean it works for her? I don't think that the norm should be men that can't show emotion or share fears, problems and thoughts.
carhill Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 It's not a problem if it works for both sides, since you said that your style complement each other. (though I don't really understand myself not being you) She said that sometimes she wishes you are a normal guy, does that still mean it works for her? I don't think that the norm should be men that can't show emotion or share fears, problems and thoughts. I would say, on balance, "no". Our MC identified this area as a significant area of disparity of perspective. I would say that my "abnormality" is not in the content but in the "how" and I think this is the important component of this dynamic. A man who shares his challenges but always retains the appearance of control and confidence will be more attractive. It's like "I'm telling you this but, don't worry, I'll figure it out and can handle it myself", where my approach is more "this is really bothering me and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with this and I need your help". It could be the same issue, but the way in which it is shared creates a completely different dynamic. Remember, I'm talking about such revelations as in the context of the OP, not when one is married like I am. The lack of emotional support in my marriage is why I came to see it as unhealthy. That's not what the OP is about, but rather the interactions during the dating process as people become increasingly intimate over time and judge each other as potential partners.
fral945 Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Speaking as a representative of the male species, I don't like to just dwell and talk about problems, I like to diagnose and fix them without bothering anyone. Personally, I get nothing out of vocalizing my problems. I get satisfaction at figuring out and fixing them myself. I haven't told women what your boyfriend said to you, but that's pretty much the same attitude I have. Why dump all your problems on someone else? If I have a problem at work or something in the family I usually don't bring that up in a relationship context very often unless it is very serious. I've noticed a lot of women I've dated like to share many of their problems and little issues of the day with me. It seems like a lot of times they don't even want an answer, they just want empathy and someone to talk to. I'm generally fine because it allows them to talk and me to not have to say much. It seems more popular nowadays to vocalize all your problems and always complain. Personally I think that came about from the feminist movement, the idea that it's bad to hold feelings in. I'm of the belief that internalizing is fine as long as you have outlets or ways to decompress.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted November 3, 2008 Author Posted November 3, 2008 Speaking as a representative of the male species, I don't like to just dwell and talk about problems, I like to diagnose and fix them without bothering anyone. Personally, I get nothing out of vocalizing my problems. I get satisfaction at figuring out and fixing them myself. I haven't told women what your boyfriend said to you, but that's pretty much the same attitude I have. Why dump all your problems on someone else? If I have a problem at work or something in the family I usually don't bring that up in a relationship context very often unless it is very serious. I've noticed a lot of women I've dated like to share many of their problems and little issues of the day with me. It seems like a lot of times they don't even want an answer, they just want empathy and someone to talk to. I'm generally fine because it allows them to talk and me to not have to say much. It seems more popular nowadays to vocalize all your problems and always complain. Personally I think that came about from the feminist movement, the idea that it's bad to hold feelings in. I'm of the belief that internalizing is fine as long as you have outlets or ways to decompress. Vocalizing all your problems and complaining came from the feminist movement! That's one the most ridiculous things I have ever heard! Also what I was referring to had nothing to do with complaining or self-pity or anything like that. It's not male or female, but human to share thoughts with another human. Sure maybe a guy wouldn't want to do it with a girl he just started dating but hopefully he doesn't let it build inside because that makes the problems worse, they can build and get distorted the more you worry until you can't hold it in anymore. Not healthy. Talking and sharing isn't dwelling or bothering anyone, just the opposite. But regarding to dating and relationships sharing and listening is part of a growing relationship, to let the other person know you trust them to share these things. That they appreciate the advice or ear. Sometimes people don't need to share with someone to get an answer, but it's just nice to have someone listen. Helps to hear it out loud because sometimes it doesn't sound so bad or just get it out. Guys are problem solvers and can get frustrated when woman want someone just to listen because they feel the need to solve the problem.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted November 3, 2008 Author Posted November 3, 2008 I would say, on balance, "no". Our MC identified this area as a significant area of disparity of perspective. I would say that my "abnormality" is not in the content but in the "how" and I think this is the important component of this dynamic. A man who shares his challenges but always retains the appearance of control and confidence will be more attractive. It's like "I'm telling you this but, don't worry, I'll figure it out and can handle it myself", where my approach is more "this is really bothering me and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with this and I need your help". It could be the same issue, but the way in which it is shared creates a completely different dynamic. Remember, I'm talking about such revelations as in the context of the OP, not when one is married like I am. The lack of emotional support in my marriage is why I came to see it as unhealthy. That's not what the OP is about, but rather the interactions during the dating process as people become increasingly intimate over time and judge each other as potential partners. Sorry what does MC stand for? "A man who shares his challenges but always retains the appearance of control and confidence will be more attractive." I agree, confidence is a turn on and so is being able to share rough times or challenges. I think you can ask for advise or help and still be a confident man though.
joshaz Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Speaking as a more awesomer representative of the male species, we simply don't have problems Also... With the divorce rate as high as it is, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. And guys always get the short end of the stick on that one.
kizik Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Silly stereotypes like this one just feed the misconception that guys are brickheads who show no emotion, ever. I like carhill's musings on the subject. There are many men out there who are more than happy to verbalize about issues that occur in their lives. The problem is that there are too many complainers (read: women) and too many strong-but-silent types (read: men) out there, and the whole human race uses these minorities as erroneous stereotypes that somehow remain in society, despite all the evidence to the contrary. What I'm saying is that if you think talking about problems is a "woman" thing, and being an emotionless robot is a "man" thing, you are really off-base, and more than a tad ignorant.
Trialbyfire Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Speaking as a representative of the male species, I don't like to just dwell and talk about problems, I like to diagnose and fix them without bothering anyone. Personally, I get nothing out of vocalizing my problems. I get satisfaction at figuring out and fixing them myself. I haven't told women what your boyfriend said to you, but that's pretty much the same attitude I have. Why dump all your problems on someone else? If I have a problem at work or something in the family I usually don't bring that up in a relationship context very often unless it is very serious. I've noticed a lot of women I've dated like to share many of their problems and little issues of the day with me. It seems like a lot of times they don't even want an answer, they just want empathy and someone to talk to. I'm generally fine because it allows them to talk and me to not have to say much. It seems more popular nowadays to vocalize all your problems and always complain. Personally I think that came about from the feminist movement, the idea that it's bad to hold feelings in. I'm of the belief that internalizing is fine as long as you have outlets or ways to decompress. Sharing of important issues is a form of bonding. It's about sufficient trust and respect for an SO, that they're capable of helping and if nothing else, being a sounding board. I'm more of the former and less of the latter, since I'm solutions oriented. Having said that, there's a limit to sharing. If it's consistent angst or complaining, no one wants to bear the burden for the ineffective or the overly-emotional individual.
flc Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 I agree a bit with fral on this one. When I have problems the only time I want to deal with them are when I am focused on resolving them, otherwise I just as soon ignore it until the time is right. When I am with a women I really don't want to be solving my problems I want to put that away and focus on enjoying my time with my partner. There are caveats to that as when both people need to be involved but that is generally the exception from my experience. I have also noticed that when listening to my partners problems the best course of action is to listen and not to try and interject my opinions. It never seems to go well when I do.
Kamille Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 I'm not a sharer myself - but I think there's a difference between "digging for emotions" and building a relationship of trust. I don't need my partners to tell me all about their feelings in order to feel loved and trusted in a relationshi. What bother sme though is when a guy I am seeing "hides" that he is having issues with an aspects of our relationships and then pops up with "the solution" when I wasn't even aware there was a problem. I mean, if there are issues, we should negotiate solutions. I get the impression from your first post that this might be why you're bothered by his lack of communication - Not so much that not sharing your feeling is unhealthy for oneself, but that in this case, it was unhealthy for the relationship.
quankanne Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 MC = marriage counseling, I do believe ... my approach is more "this is really bothering me and I'm at a loss as to how to deal with this and I need your help" see, I wish men *were* able to do this when it came down to crunch time and a second opinion could at least shed light on a possible solution. right now, my husband and I are going through a sticky patch, but he refuses to go to MC because he doesn't want people "knowing our business." Sorry, I don't see it that way when that uninvolved third party could help point out possible solutions. so, I sit here imagining the worst because he's giving mixed messages and he's firing off loaded accusations but refuses to back them up by saying why he feels this way. And now my marriage is crap because he doesn't want to do anything more than to lob emotional grenades my way. Which really really sucks when all that stuff we learned at a long ago marriage enrichment program seems to be thrown out the door. men, if there's a problem that needs to be address, for Pete's sake TALK to your wives and girlfriends. You may yell, you may disagree, but at least she's aware of what's going on in your head instead of just getting weirdness from you. You're not weak for sharing, you're building equity in the relationship!
quankanne Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 if there are issues, we should negotiate solutions. yes! Be a part of the solution, not the problem.
kizik Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Conflict avoidance is NOT just a male tendency. My exGF didn't ever want to address issues with me (such as, her not loving me anymore). So, we broke up b/c she hid and lied through her actions and is basically an immature child. Women do it too, and often.
Geishawhelk Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Yes, let's get this "men are from mars, women are from Venus" cra-hap kicked once and for all. It's rubbish. Members of the opposite sex are actually remarkably similar in their thought processes, emotions, desires and hopes. Some men are shy, quiet and reticent, some women are up-front, loud and pushy. Some men cry, some women hit out. So let's not start with the gender differences because if all the posts on this board are anything to go by, they could in the majortiy have been written by either sex.
kizik Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Yes, let's get this "men are from mars, women are from Venus" cra-hap kicked once and for all. It's rubbish. Members of the opposite sex are actually remarkably similar in their thought processes, emotions, desires and hopes. Some men are shy, quiet and reticent, some women are up-front, loud and pushy. Some men cry, some women hit out. So let's not start with the gender differences because if all the posts on this board are anything to go by, they could in the majortiy have been written by either sex. Amen, sister/brother! (The fact that I do not know the majority of my favorites poster's genders should be a hint to some that, as Geisha says, we share the same problems.) I am often a bit surprised when I find out some people with whom I am corresponding on here are female. But the surprise is shaming, b/c what, do I expect only men to understand me? No. We all understand each other here, and posts that go, "Men, why are you so rude?" etc. just annoy the hell out of me. Especially b/c you'd see a sh*tstorm if I made a women-bashing thread.
Geishawhelk Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 It' sister, actually. And take your hat off when you're speaking to me. (J/K!!!)
kizik Posted November 3, 2008 Posted November 3, 2008 Sure, as long as your don't stray too far from your position in the kitchen - naked, barefoot, and pregnant.
Author sweetbutcheeky Posted November 3, 2008 Author Posted November 3, 2008 I don't need my partners to tell me all about their feelings in order to feel loved and trusted in a relationship. If you and others don't need a partner to do that to get what you need out of a relationship and it works then you can work with it. I know now (and for other reasons) that we arn't compatible because if he gets distant, disappears and internalizes this problems and can't talk then that won't work for me. But more importantly when you internalize everything it's not healthy. Some people (men and woman) think you should be strong and not let emotions out, maybe are afraid to show they have problems or are taught not to. Whatever the reason when you push them down and let them build they are going to build until they explode. That isn't healthy for the person and a relationship. My ex fiance would keep them in, if we were talking about something he would start to voice his opinion then say never mind, just say I am right (even when I am trying to ask him his opinion), never say if something was wrong or not working in the relationship. How am I supposed to know something is wrong if he never says anything? Or end like we did when he lost it one day, left and never saw him again. I never knew there was a problem. (3 weeks before the wedding) So doesn't work for anyone. (the example I gave in my first post was a guy I dated, the last example was a 7 year relationship)
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