D-Lish Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Just curious. When you are dating someone- do actions take precedence over words, or is it the other way around? (maybe it has gray area). I'll give a specific example. If you meet someone and they say that they are not interested in a serious relationship, yet their actions indicate the opposite- which will you give more credence to? By actions I mean- affection, constant communication, asking you to meet the important people in their life, talking about plans in the future, etc. I wonder if a male perspective will be different than a female perspective. I don't always say what I mean, but when it comes to something as serious as being with another person, I mean it when I say I don't want something serious. That doesn't mean I won't be affectionate and caring and respectful.... along with having fun. My situation is a little complicated. I've been seeing someone I like well enough, but he is leaving soon. We've both had an understanding from day one that we want to keep things light because it's not practical to get involved. So we've agreed to keep it light... but things seem to be getting a bit heated anyway. He told me the other night I seem guarded and I thought to myself "yeah I am guarded... you're leaving... I should be guarded". He should be guarded too given what our circumstance is! He hasn't been acting ti though. I don't think I would have thought more was involved in our "fling" until I was over at his house a couple days ago and ended up getting a really bad head cold. I really, really wanted to drive home I felt so awful- but he insisted I stay, ('d already been there on night before... He ended up just doing nice things for me like making me tea, rubbing my back and going to the store at midnight to get me aspirin and ice cream just so I'd stay. So I did. The whole time I kept thinking, wow- this is what I would let a bf do...or something close to bf behaviour in my many years of experience. I looked at him a little bit differently after that. It wasn't like anything physical was going to happen when I have a fever. So I don't know what was actually in it for him to take care of me when I was clear about leaving him be and going home. I am not going to lie and say I don't like him. I have liked him since I met him. We make each other laugh non-stop, we're on the same page about everything, same twisted humour, and sexually in sync. Despite that I have been good about not investing too deeply. Even if we split tomorrow- I wouldn't be heartbroken... but things have changed in that I know it will carry a harsher weight of sadness than originally anticipated (for me). SO I guess it's the little turn of the corner I am not worried about. I still let him do most of the chasing- he does the calling and texting "first"... then I respond. He's always ready to make plans to get together. So I am back to the actions vs words dilemma. I have always been a big believer that when a guy says he wants to be low key... he means it. I am not wrong about that right? I always go by that belief. He was orinally leaving in the 3rd week of November, but has now decided to stay and spend x-mas here before leaving. This is a new development in the past week- prolonging time here. So what do you think guys- am I getting sucked in by this guy? Is it because I played it friendly but indifferent in the the beginning that has driven him to want to figure me out better? (that could still be an act he saw as a challange). He's just got a twinkle in the eye- down to earth charm, and the wit and humour is just grande. Words can be really powerful- I trust men when they say they aren't ready to be serious (change a mans mind???- no way, not my desire to try). But we haven't talked of intentions since the first couple dates. I'm still going with the listening to those words for now.... What do you guys think about this? Smart to remain guarded and play it cool? Go with the flow? I will NOT be busting out any "can we talk moves"... no way. I am feeling if he is feeling different or conflicted- he can say so. Not sure what to do in the meantime. I was going to wait about 5-6 days to see him again from today. Maybe that will calm things down and we can both have a bit of a think... ??
2sunny Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 i go by actions... the action is the truer confirmation as to what the real deal is. he may have started out as keeping his distance knowing he is leaving and now MAY be getting more attached/reluctant to leave. either way... he's at least compassionate. there are men that know how to take care of a gal when she's down or sick with no hidden agenda. not as many as we'd prefer - but they do exist. i read what you wrote to mean that he's a bit confused... thus, his original words don't match the actions. also, don't assume that you are the only one he is seeing... there may be additional reasons why he delayed leaving. if you really wonder where you stand now - you could always ask him for clarification. what is the reason he was supposed to leave?
Island Girl Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 I would say all things considered actions speak louder. Of course there are times when the reverse is true but I find those to be the exception. In your particular case I would say he MAY be one of those people who says, "I am not looking for a relationship" and not adding...'but if one fell into my lap, I'd be okay with that'. It is too tough to tell because he could just be a really really nice guy that, when he is in the company of a good woman, likes to make her happy.
sweetbutcheeky Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Actions! Because someone can tell you they are caring and compassionate, but if they are never there for you it doesn't mean anything. If they say they will call but don't, say they want to date or are interested in a relationship but actions give you other info ... well you get the point. People can say a lot of things but unless they back it yup with the action it's just words.
carhill Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 I'll give a specific example. If you meet someone and they say that they are not interested in a serious relationship, yet their actions indicate the opposite- which will you give more credence to? By actions I mean- affection, constant communication, asking you to meet the important people in their life, talking about plans in the future, etc. My male perspective would be one of caution. I read such as mixed signals or the sign of a person who acts "serious" but allows their words to leave them an escape route. IME, it's been a sign of commitment and/or attachment issues. Should I become single again, I wouldn't continue with someone sending me mixed messages. Very annoying
norajane Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Remember, guys can compartmentalize. So, yes, he may be attached or getting more attached to you, but when he leaves, he can still put you in his past, as a lovely fling with a genuinely wonderful woman. The reality of his departure will hit you harder if you allow yourself to think there's a future for you together. At the same time, don't hold back. If you're going to have a love affair, have a really passionate one. Yes, it will be hard when he leaves. But knowing that he won't be there forever, enjoy it while you have it without censoring your experience.
iamenough Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Been there. I 'dated' a guy I really liked who told me he didn't want anything serious but then completely acted like my boyfriend. It was baffling to say the least. It ended in a big mess. Trust your gut. Until his words match his actions, I'd be really cautious.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Remember, guys can compartmentalize. So, yes, he may be attached or getting more attached to you, but when he leaves, he can still put you in his past, as a lovely fling with a genuinely wonderful woman. The reality of his departure will hit you harder if you allow yourself to think there's a future for you together. At the same time, don't hold back. If you're going to have a love affair, have a really passionate one. Yes, it will be hard when he leaves. But knowing that he won't be there forever, enjoy it while you have it without censoring your experience. I agree with this, for the most part. But my opinion on the matter hasn't changed since the last thread on the topic. If I were in your position, I would absolutely guard myself and keep it as light as possible. I know exactly what you mean about the change once he takes care of you. With my last boyfriend, after he stayed with me and looked after me when I got my wisdom teeth out, my feelings definitely intensified -- that hero/knight in shining armor thing. And I think his feelings went up a notch, too. But looking back, I can say it did nothing to cure his commitment phobia, or whatever. He loved playing that role of devotion for a while, and part of him wanted to be that guy 100%, but it wasn't him. I think this guy is totally revved up by the challenge, by the fact that you are not getting sappy and clingy. I think that's a total aphrodisiac for men! I'd be willing to bet that if you did become emotionally invested, he'd quickly realize it was time to hit the trail again.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Until his words match his actions, I'd be really cautious. Totally agree. If he hasn't said it, he's always got an out: "Oh, I think you misunderstood. I was just having a good time."
Trialbyfire Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Words and actions have to match! If not, guard your heart. Regardless, he's got to leave since he's on some kind of visa. Do you really want an LDR with someone across the pond?
GPFan Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Until his words match his actions, I'd be really cautious.Agreed, He seems conflicted.
Taramere Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 I've met a lot of people who I regard as honourable and relatively consistent in their behaviour - but I've yet to meet someone whose words and actions marry up on every occasion. Is there such a creature? To me, words indicate who a person aspires to being; actions indicate how far along the path they are in actually becoming that person. I think observation of both is important in indicating 1) What areas the person is conflicted in 2) The situations I can reasonably depend on them in, and the situations in which I'd have to take a little more care Let's say you hook up with a guy, he outlines for you right at the start who he is....and what he's outlining is a picture of someone who isn't going to make you happy in the long term, because he really doesn't want anything serious. As a relationship between the two of you develops, he might become emotionally attached - or he might pretend to become emotionally attached. Or it might be a confusing mishmash of both; a person who's struggling with the usual conflicts. Who he wants to be, who his friends think he should be, who he'd like his enemies to see him as, who the media thinks he should be, what you would like him to be, who he is (which he might not really know). His actions might indicate that he does in fact want to be the man who'd make you happy in the long term. So despite his initial "I'm not good boyfriend material" presentation, you start to believe in the possibility of long term happiness between you and this guy. Then at some point his feelings fizzle out and it's time for an ending. And that ending might well be presented along the lines of "I told you from the outset who I was and how this would be." And he walks away feeling honest, consistent and generally good about himself. Which is why I think it's absolutely vital to listen to people's words and who they present themselves as being at the very start....because very likely that's what they'll be serving up to you at the end, regardless of actions that took place in between those two points. So I am back to the actions vs words dilemma. I have always been a big believer that when a guy says he wants to be low key... he means it. I am not wrong about that right? I always go by that belief. So what do you think guys- am I getting sucked in by this guy? Is it because I played it friendly but indifferent in the the beginning that has driven him to want to figure me out better? (that could still be an act he saw as a challange). But we haven't talked of intentions since the first couple dates. I'm still going with the listening to those words for now.... What do you guys think about this? Smart to remain guarded and play it cool? Go with the flow? I will NOT be busting out any "can we talk moves"... no way. I am feeling if he is feeling different or conflicted- he can say so. But you're feeling conflicted too. This isn't all on him. You both started out with the "let's keep this light" agreement. And yes, I agree with you that your adherence to that agreement is probably part of what's keeping him interested and encouraging him to continue pursuing you. I was in a not dissimilar situation ages and ages ago, and it continued for 5 years. The reason it continued for so long was that I played it exactly as you describe at the end. I think would have been far better for me if I'd asked early on "can we talk?" but I was way too cool and proud to do that. Which was, of course, why he stayed interested for so long. His long-lasting interest in me did not make me happy. It was more a case of lots of confusion and distress punctuated by the occasional ego boost. But that was just my experience. It might pan out very differently for other women who play it that way (depending on the man and woman in question, and the circumstances/other people influencing events). Putting whatever conflicts the man might have in this situation to one side for a moment, and focusing on yours....here is what seems to me to be the conflict: His continued interest in you versus you developing as an honest, mature woman who can broach and participate in discussions about "taking the relationship to the next level". Which one will make you happier in the long run? If you're very sure that his continued interest and regard for you as a cool, attractive woman is going to be a greater source of happiness, then cool and guarded is how you must play it.
Author D-Lish Posted November 2, 2008 Author Posted November 2, 2008 Everyone makes great points! They are all points I have considered on each side myself!! I truly haven't invested myself so I'd end up heartbroken. If you meet someone who says they are leaving... well- you don't invest, that's logic. I guess it was the sick scenario that screwed me up some. Our relationship has been very heightened humour and physical attraction. We just laugh and can't seem to keep our hands off one another. All of a sudden I get really sick. My first reaction was to go home- I don't want this guy to see me sick, don't want him to hear me barf if that is a possibility. Know what I mean? (vulnerable right!) But there he is... He rubbed my shoulders and placed a cold compress on my head as he fed me ice cream. I just sort of figured- Crap- why bother???? You won't get sex!!! I was really sick!!! I left this morning still feeling crap. And he was still asking to me to stay. I'm still not 100% and he asked if he could come over tonight to my place and just hang. He had a holloween party to go to and wanted to come to my place instead. NO sex... just taking care. That's not normal is it? I declined and encouraged him to be with his friends. Are we both fooling oursleves... or is this really sick and these guys like the game of taking care of me for another reason????? Keep in mind he willingling bought me tampons too.... (something I was nervous to ask because I was DOWN... he just asked and went.... Facts: 1st meeting: Both of us said: 1) we aren't ready for anything serious 2) "He" wants to experience canada from beginning to end" 3) he is/was leaving soon... but changed his mind and wants to stay for x-mas. YES- his x-mas includes dinner at my place (his hope). And a new development. His texts today... Wish you were here... miss you... if i went to BC would you come visit...when can we see each other again...??? That's the thing for me... JUST HANG? If it's not serious- we don't just hang right? Shouldn't be that way. Anyway, he just came on no strings attached. Do people in casual relationships take care of you, Insist it's want they want to do? I was there all morning/aft He nursed me back to health and then I left as soon as I could. I would have been there 36 hours in total. I did leave. Came home last night when I realized I didn't want to deal with a fart or otherwise crazy trip to the bathroom. He on the otherhand was unphased. Do '"playahs" do that? Do they?????? I've had six texts today. "feel better, are you okay, when can I see you again,never met anyone like you, let's take a day trip next week." IS THIS CASUAL? Have other girls on the go? Possibly. I doubt they'd measure out what we have because of our time and connection- but crap, been wrong before and that is what I wonder about.
Dark-N-Romantic Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 It all depends to be honest. One can say one thing and do another or maybe able to do something, but really meant what they say. Examples... A person who saids they love someone, but is going around lying, stealing, cheating, or doing other things that says anything else but love is a mode for question. Or a person can do EVERYTHING to show a person that they love them, paying for things, making love to them, doing romantic things, but if he or she never say "I love you." many people would not take those actions as love. So, I say this, love is both said and shown. To have one without the other makes the circle incomplete (of course this is barring a physical or mental impairment). DNR
Capricciosa Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 I've learned to always listen to men when they tell me they don't want a relationship/girlfriend. It's sweet that he does the other things, but he declared himself and hasn't said otherwise or changed his plans, has he? And I also find it impossible to not get somewhat attached to someone I really like and have good sex with. Maybe men can compartmentalize like another poster said, but I can't, so I don't fool myself about such things either anymore.
InLimbo2 Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 ya know, it could go either way my guy and I both said - and truly meant - we weren't looking for anything serious when we met and started dating - and here we are 2.5 years later - planning the rest of our lives together, including marriage and I've got a really nice diamond ring on my hand - it does happen. And then again, in my past, there's been guys who said they weren't looking for anything serious, and they meant it - including one in the military that was leaving for his next post. Why wouldn't this guy take care of you and care how you are? Sounds to me like you two are friends - not just booty calls to each other. Some guys, even without wanting a serious, involved, long lasting relationship aren't into just FB/casual sex. Sooo, you get what I call 'relationship-lite' - it's more than booty, but less than a boyfriend - but they are very good at giving what I call 'the boyfriend experience'. He may have become as smitten with you as you have with him - it's possible. Not sure on the why he has to leave and if it's long-term or permanent, but that would definitely cause me to protect my heart. Good luck Everyone makes great points! They are all points I have considered on each side myself!! I truly haven't invested myself so I'd end up heartbroken. If you meet someone who says they are leaving... well- you don't invest, that's logic. I guess it was the sick scenario that screwed me up some. Our relationship has been very heightened humour and physical attraction. We just laugh and can't seem to keep our hands off one another. All of a sudden I get really sick. My first reaction was to go home- I don't want this guy to see me sick, don't want him to hear me barf if that is a possibility. Know what I mean? (vulnerable right!) But there he is... He rubbed my shoulders and placed a cold compress on my head as he fed me ice cream. I just sort of figured- Crap- why bother???? You won't get sex!!! I was really sick!!! I left this morning still feeling crap. And he was still asking to me to stay. I'm still not 100% and he asked if he could come over tonight to my place and just hang. He had a holloween party to go to and wanted to come to my place instead. NO sex... just taking care. That's not normal is it? I declined and encouraged him to be with his friends. Are we both fooling oursleves... or is this really sick and these guys like the game of taking care of me for another reason????? Keep in mind he willingling bought me tampons too.... (something I was nervous to ask because I was DOWN... he just asked and went.... Facts: 1st meeting: Both of us said: 1) we aren't ready for anything serious 2) "He" wants to experience canada from beginning to end" 3) he is/was leaving soon... but changed his mind and wants to stay for x-mas. YES- his x-mas includes dinner at my place (his hope). And a new development. His texts today... Wish you were here... miss you... if i went to BC would you come visit...when can we see each other again...??? That's the thing for me... JUST HANG? If it's not serious- we don't just hang right? Shouldn't be that way. Anyway, he just came on no strings attached. Do people in casual relationships take care of you, Insist it's want they want to do? I was there all morning/aft He nursed me back to health and then I left as soon as I could. I would have been there 36 hours in total. I did leave. Came home last night when I realized I didn't want to deal with a fart or otherwise crazy trip to the bathroom. He on the otherhand was unphased. Do '"playahs" do that? Do they?????? I've had six texts today. "feel better, are you okay, when can I see you again,never met anyone like you, let's take a day trip next week." IS THIS CASUAL? Have other girls on the go? Possibly. I doubt they'd measure out what we have because of our time and connection- but crap, been wrong before and that is what I wonder about.
Bells Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 110% ACTION...didn't even have to read the post....just the topic.
iamenough Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Everyone makes great points! They are all points I have considered on each side myself!! I truly haven't invested myself so I'd end up heartbroken. If you meet someone who says they are leaving... well- you don't invest, that's logic. I guess it was the sick scenario that screwed me up some. Our relationship has been very heightened humour and physical attraction. We just laugh and can't seem to keep our hands off one another. All of a sudden I get really sick. My first reaction was to go home- I don't want this guy to see me sick, don't want him to hear me barf if that is a possibility. Know what I mean? (vulnerable right!) But there he is... He rubbed my shoulders and placed a cold compress on my head as he fed me ice cream. I just sort of figured- Crap- why bother???? You won't get sex!!! I was really sick!!! I left this morning still feeling crap. And he was still asking to me to stay. I'm still not 100% and he asked if he could come over tonight to my place and just hang. He had a holloween party to go to and wanted to come to my place instead. NO sex... just taking care. That's not normal is it? I declined and encouraged him to be with his friends. Are we both fooling oursleves... or is this really sick and these guys like the game of taking care of me for another reason????? Keep in mind he willingling bought me tampons too.... (something I was nervous to ask because I was DOWN... he just asked and went.... Facts: 1st meeting: Both of us said: 1) we aren't ready for anything serious 2) "He" wants to experience canada from beginning to end" 3) he is/was leaving soon... but changed his mind and wants to stay for x-mas. YES- his x-mas includes dinner at my place (his hope). And a new development. His texts today... Wish you were here... miss you... if i went to BC would you come visit...when can we see each other again...??? That's the thing for me... JUST HANG? If it's not serious- we don't just hang right? Shouldn't be that way. Anyway, he just came on no strings attached. Do people in casual relationships take care of you, Insist it's want they want to do? I was there all morning/aft He nursed me back to health and then I left as soon as I could. I would have been there 36 hours in total. I did leave. Came home last night when I realized I didn't want to deal with a fart or otherwise crazy trip to the bathroom. He on the otherhand was unphased. Do '"playahs" do that? Do they?????? I've had six texts today. "feel better, are you okay, when can I see you again,never met anyone like you, let's take a day trip next week." IS THIS CASUAL? Have other girls on the go? Possibly. I doubt they'd measure out what we have because of our time and connection- but crap, been wrong before and that is what I wonder about. Hrm... as I said in my previous post, I've been there. The guy I dated did similar things. He kept in contact several times a day, took care of me when I was feeling down, always wanted to spend time together etc. He really did act the part of bf and he was very, very attentive all the time. It got to the point where I started to believe we might end up together, based mostly off his actions (and sometimes his words - he talked about the future a lot). Fast forward a few months down the line.... he tells me, "remeber, I don't want anything serious." and then ultimately "hey, we can't have sex anymore. I'm in a relationship with someone else now" by the time he dropped that bomb, I was pretty attached. I'm NOT saying this will happen in your case, it's just food for thought. When he gives you a solid reason to stop questioning where you stand, then go ahead and let your guard down if that's what you want to do. Or, you could straight out ask him where you stand at this point. If you really don't want to do that, then I'd still exercise caution. If you do end up with this guy, (or think you might want to end up with him) taking things slow will not hurt the cause, right?
GPFan Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Sometimes carefully chosen words bear as much weight as action but only if the words are carefully chosen.
Caitlan Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 If the words aren't backed up by the actions, the words mean nothing. If a person is doing what they are saying you can go with it being honest and true. If they say nice things yet they aren't treating you nicely and doing things that show they care then the words are meaningless. Actions speak volumes ... words can be simply that.. words.. but they are great when they are coupled with action follow-thru.
Star Gazer Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 I tend to focus on words when it's negative, and actions when it's positive. For example, "I'm not interested in an exclusive relationship/anything serious/etc." - I pay attention to those words. Regardless of whether his actions contradict his words, those words are what I will hold on to. If he's saying something negative, I let him just tell me how it is. On the other hand, if he says "I love you" or the like - then I focus on the actions. Prove it to me. Show me.
Caitlan Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 for some reason I couldn't edit my last post.... so heres a thought also. Someone can tell you one thing ie... I'm not into a long term relationship, yet they act like they adore you. You need to pay attention to the words as someone is telling you something about themselves yet may act differently. What you need to pay attention to for a true reflection of the person is if their actions are the same as their words. If they are not, then there is a misunderstandy or a problem that needs clarification.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 It sounds like you two do have a great time together, and that's wonderful. I just think it would be a mistake to assume that means he has any intentions beyond FWB. He may be a very sweet and caring guy who likes to take care of the people in his life, but that has no bearing at all on his "free and easy" status. Many commitment phobe types are very loving and giving, especially in the beginning when they are on the hunt and trying to lock a woman down. But he is from another country, just passing through. That doesn't change. I mean, realistically, what are you hoping for? If he did get you all swoony and emotional with his caretaking, and you became more interested and invested, that would probably give him a big ego boost. It might be some kind of conquest, even if it's on a subconscious level. I maintain: be VERY careful, and keep it light and fun.
forest123 Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 In this case, BELIEVE THE WORDS. I have dated my fair share of commitment phobic women in the past. At times I was a commitment phobe. For many people, sex is better if their are feelings, obviously.Real or invented feelings. Men and women. So, some people seem to try and cheat the system in a way. They know they do not want a real relationship, for whatever reason, so they tell you. They actually go out of their way to pick people they do not see themselves settling down with.. Example, an older woman, a woman on vacation, a much younger man, etc. Maybe to protect themselves from being fully invested. Then, they put on this act, charade, (maybe subconsciously or it is all part of the fun) or being deeply caring, loving, the perfect man/woman, etc. Often times part of the fun and excitement is to suck the other person in. However, they always have an out.. "Well I told you I did not want a relationship" etc However, people are often times hurt by these people, as they ignore their words, and just focus on how good it feels to be around them. Then when the other person pulls a 180 you are really surprised, hurt, sad, angry, confused, etc. If a man wants a relationship with you, and not just a sex filled, lust filled fling, he will never tell you "I dont want a relationship", and I feel the same is true for women.
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