blind_otter Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 I did it. I didn't want to. It started as an argument, which is the worst thing to do. I wanted to talk about things, with civility and respect. He just wouldn't respond to me. He stared at the TV. So I turned the TV off to talk to him, and he walked out of the room and took a bath without even looking at me. When he got out of the bath he wanted to see the baby, and I handed him over and went to take a shower. After my shower he was laying in bed with the baby, and I did some things around the house, and I listened to the baby fuss and fuss until it escalated to the baby screaming and crying, so I went to him and took the baby away and calmed the baby down. I picked a fight, I admit it. I scolded him like a child for letting the baby get so upset, and told him to sleep in the other bedroom. I made dinner for myself, but I acted childishly and made no food for my S/O. Then I just lit into him. I told him that he needed to stay somewhere else for a while, that I can't stand not knowing when he will drink again, that I need some kind of proof that he actually does want to quit, that I can't trust him when he promises he won't drink anymore because he has broken that promise so many times in the past. I said I don't want to end our relationship, but I need some kind of action from him. Something besides his passivity. When he was leaving he said he was leaving because I wanted him to, that he was respecting my wishes. I said if he was respecting my wishes, he would get help. He said he doesn't respond well to ultimatums. Then he said something that made me afraid. He said, no matter what you do, I will always be in our son's life - he will be around me no matter what, so you're argument that you don't want him to grow up around someone binge drinking is OK is stupid. He will see it whether we are together, or we are separated. He also threatened to take the baby away. I don't think I made the right decision. I don't know if he was just angry or what. I feel horrible right now.
Curmudgeon Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Sorry you're going through this. It might help you if you get in touch with a local chapter of Alanon. They'll give you good advice and a lot of support. As for what you found scary, if push-comes-to-shove, and if you're the primary caregiver, he won't be taking the baby and given his drinking, the court could be petritioned to order testing before visitation as well as supervised visitation which also means no overenights with the child for him. Don't despair. you're doing what's right for your child and that's what mothers do. It's "normal" to have mixed feelings like you're experiencing. Sleep on it and things may make more and better sense tomorrow.
CastingPearls Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 It's so hard to make a drinker understand how they are damaging someone else. You have all my respect for trying to help your baby's father to be a better dad. I never had any luck, my little guy used to call me at work to say " Dad fell asleep on the floor again, what should I do?" The poor kid was more responsible at 8 than his father was at 38. I stayed with my alcoholic far longer than I should have, but there were many times he did try very hard to be the father I hoped he would be, he just couldn't be consistent, and I never knew if I could count on him or not. I never doubted his love for his child, but he could not, would not get help. I was lucky to have supportive parents and family to help me. I hope you can be strong in trying to give your baby the healthiest and most secure life possible, but I know how hard it is when you have someone who has alcohol problems, and yet DOES care about the child and IS there for you (at least some of the time).
Author blind_otter Posted October 31, 2008 Author Posted October 31, 2008 It sucks, because his alcoholism is not the totality of our relationship. There are a lot of good points. Good times. Happy days, weeks, even months. But there is this invisible creature in the room, that we cannot mention or discuss. I can't talk about it, or I awaken his defensive ire. If I attempt to broach the subject, he suddenly becomes cold, distant, and silent. Sometimes he will even go to sleep at 6pm rather than deal with me. My baby is crying, so I must go attend to him. To be honest, I feel like crying like that right now.
Touche Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Sorry, Bo. Did you read my response on your other thread? I don't think you handled this well. First of all it wasn't his fault that the baby was fussing yet you made him feel responsible. Secondly, you can't make someone stop drinking. He already knows your stance. He either will or he won't. Your nagging him will only make him rebel and drink more. Thirdly, you lost points in not making him dinner, IMO. It only further, in his mind, makes you seem immature, irrational and unreasonable which would give him more reasons to not comply with any of your wishes. If you want him to stop drinking that's just not the way to go about it. You have to either accept things the way they are or not. And he's right. You can't keep him from his child. You have no basis for it. Sheesh, I mean if every child was taken away/deprived of their alcoholic parent there'd be a LOT of miserable orphaned kids. Wasn't your own father an alcoholic? What if your mother had taken the hard stance that you are? Listen as an alkie myself and one who was raised by one, I get it. And again you shouldn't accept abuse to yourself or to your child. But I'm not seeing that here. Perhaps you wouldn't feel so resentful towards him if you had more time to yourself? Taking care of a baby is exhausting. I remember what it was like. He was wrong to tune you out. You need to ask him when would be a good time for you to both sit down and talk and compromise and negotiate. I feel like this can be worked out between you.
2sunny Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 oh BO- big hugs. you have done the right thing. doing the right thing is usually the harder road to take. you have shown him that you have boundaries and you won't tolerate this behavior. remind him that you love him when he's not in his disease. stick to your boundaries - it MAY give him some motivation to consider his consequences to his bad behavior. to tolerate it or act as if it didn't happen only makes it ok in his mind. now he knows you are serious. the fact that he won't discuss it is key... he had the opportunity to talk through it in the past few days - and he chose to avoid it. this is his denial that he has a problem. i know a binge drinker and he is SCARY when he even goes on a binge for one day. i mean SCARY!!! chasing his wife with knives and all... not even remembering what he did. needless to say - he knows if he wants to keep his family - he cannot drink. your SO has made a concerted decision each time he goes out to drink. he knows exactly what his intentions are and that is just disrespecting you - and Landon now. so it's ultimately his actions (of choosing not to drink) that EARN him the privilege of spending time with his son and you as well. don't give in to your reasonable boundaries of him being a decent SO and Father. just because you ask him to stay somewhere else doesn't mean he can't continue to be a good father. these two things are separate. he just cannot be allowed to be around Landon when he drinks. thank God he's not an every day drinker - but nonetheless the unpredictability of a binge drinker is usually just as worrisome. you are a Mom now. it is your responsibility to keep your child safe and to give him the BEST loving environment possible! THAT is ESSENTIAL!!!!! I MEAN IT! if you don't provide this for your son then who will? the right decisions are not the easiest road to take. stick to your guns... your boundaries ARE REASONABLE given the circumstances. he is capable of earning his position back - but he knows what he needs to do to get there and he is saying no for now. PRAY! it may make a difference. i'll pray for you all too! love you sweetie. you are a great Mom to protect your child from harm and a bad role model - until he changes... xo remember - tell him you love him - but not the bad behavior... he needs to know that.
CastingPearls Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Yes, that's the rub. It's NOT all bad. I look back and see pictures of us enjoying ourselves and remember the fun we had. If all were misery, there'd be no conflict about what to do. To others it often seems a no-brainer : he's a drunk, leave him. Not so simple when you can see the potential, the eternally optimistic part wants to give him every chance. Your child is very young and knows nothing yet of your struggles and hard choices. I think you are on the right track, even though you are doubting yourself. It's hard to hold emotions in check when talking about the need for change and it can come across as an ultimatum, but it's not for yourself that you're asking. You're trying to make a better life for your baby and that makes you a GREAT mother.
Touche Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Sorry you're going through this. It might help you if you get in touch with a local chapter of Alanon. They'll give you good advice and a lot of support. As for what you found scary, if push-comes-to-shove, and if you're the primary caregiver, he won't be taking the baby and given his drinking, the court could be petritioned to order testing before visitation as well as supervised visitation which also means no overenights with the child for him. Don't despair. you're doing what's right for your child and that's what mothers do. It's "normal" to have mixed feelings like you're experiencing. Sleep on it and things may make more and better sense tomorrow. Sorry curm but this isn't right. There's no proof of abuse and it would be BO's word against his. He's capable of not drinking for weeks and months at a time. Even if the courts ordered testing (unlikely) alcohol doesn't stay in your body that long. It would be highly unlikely that he'd be denied overnights as you say, based solely on BO's accusations/assertions. It just doesn't usually work that way.
Touche Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 I just wanted to say that do a degree I agree with Sunny and Pearls. I just really believe that trying to cut him out of your son's life will do more harm than good. That's why I brought up your own history with an alcoholic father. As to you and your own boundaries, that's up to you to decide. There's no real right or wrong in that regard since he's not an abusive man. But again, as far as your son is concerned, he should be in his life whether or not you two live together and continue as a couple or not.
carhill Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 OP, if you are worried and can afford it, contact a family law attorney to precisely understand your options and the role of alcohol abuse in any legal issues which might arise. The important thing is, if you want to bring the alcohol elephant into the room, you'll need proof of your allegations, like video evidence, records of SO enrolling in an alcohol abuse program, a DUI, domestic violence history, etc. This burden of proof is why so many people don't pursue legal remedies in such cases. I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. Do you have a trusted friend or family member you can confide in? Someone who will just listen and not judge? I find that's really helpful.
2sure Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 OK. I didnt feel like talking about this because it is close to home and a frustrating subject to me. But ....I have walked in your shoes. Hell, I'm over 40, and as it happens I've walked in a lot of shoes. My daughter's fathers (thats right, the one I didnt marry) smokes pot. He drinks too, but the pot is his thing. It didnt bother me so much when we met because like I said earlier, I had grown up in a house where addiction was the norm. Anyway, after the baby came and someone had to be a grown up, I kicked him out. He has always been a part of her life. I have always wanted him to be, believing he was OK where it counted. But...about 3 years ago (when she was 9ish) she started coming home upset. She was then old enough to realize that he was not always himself - either drunk or stoned. My talking to him has not helped. He cried when I told him how disappointed his own daughter was in him. then he turned around and told her he smoked pot medicinally. This to a child fully involved in the school DARE program. So, my point is this. It is hard to be a parent. It is difficult to be the main role model for your child. You want to be close to perfect, to set a good example. We all fall short. But then add to that the fact that the other parent is choosing to be a bad role model...and then you have to compensate for that as well. Its a long road, keep moving forward, to success.
amaysngrace Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Sorry this is happening to you. I have to agree with Touche with so much of what she says. Tired from the baby. Pissy more now. Bitchy towards him more often. Really if you accepted him before and chose to have a baby with him then you can only look to you for the choices you've made. It's really not fair to him. Having a baby is hard. No more freedom. You're last on the priority list if you even make the priority list. You go from having all the attention on you as the preggy and now you're just tired and wishing for a bit of that TLC back but the baby gets all the attention. Lack of sex drive. Feeling like a mom instead of a babe. And the list goes on. Add feeling sorrow about missing your dad, and hell honey no wonder it's going to crap right now. Take tonight for you. Please. When he calls thank him for respecting your wishes. Did you guys make an agreement that he'd give up drinking entirely once the baby came or something? Because short of that all I see is you being in a bad mood and taking it out on him. It's an adjustment. Like so many other adjustments you have made before. You will handle it. I know you can handle just about anything. XO
2sunny Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 when you reach out to the group in an alanon they will give you guidance and support. they have been in your shoes and can give you a million ideas about how to handle your concern. they will welcome you with open arms. hint... it's not about controlling him at all - he is the only one that can do that for himself... it's about you taking care of you - no matter what circumstances he may bring your way - and ideas about how to carry this out. i highly encourage you to check it out - many of them allow babies or offer daycare while you're in a meeting.
Art_Critic Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 My baby is crying, so I must go attend to him. To be honest, I feel like crying like that right now. Hey B_O.. ((Hugs)) I really don't have any stellar advice to give.. I do know that you have the answer inside of you.. My heart hurts for you and your little one, I hope things get better for you .. You are such a beautiful and special person and such a wonderful Mother There has been some excellent advice other posters have given to you.. particularly 2Sunny's advice.. she seems to nail what is floating in my head... Keep on keeping on....
theobserver Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 The best thing you can do right now is to remain strong. I don't know if you still with to be with this man but if you do you already know he has to change but true change takes effort , you can only help so much but overall it's up to him to take the first steps. Most people rarely truely change and go back to their ways. So as I said best thing for you is to be strong for yourself and your child.Let him see you can be fine hell BETTER without the environment he created with the drink. If he truely cares he will want to better himself to your new expectations, as he would be ashamed to return knowing you truly don't need him. Remember though this is for you! If you so choose to find a new partner in time make sure you are doing it first for love, and secondly make sure the new man is aware of the child and will love your child as his own and that he's aware the bio father on the scene in whatever state he may be in that time. Do not get with a random guy because you are feeling lonely and need some "lovin" it's a horrible mistake, do not get back with your child's father unless you are both ready or have made some real changes. Also you did partially provoke this but I can not blame you after reading your prior posts and getting the feel about you and your situation and opinions.
hotgurl Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 I am so sorry BO, Right now you have to do what is best for you and your baby. Don't listen to his threats of taking away the baby no judge would do that to a nursing mom. Just take care of yourself. I know you are so strong and you will make it through this.
hotgurl Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Sorry this is happening to you. I have to agree with Touche with so much of what she says. Tired from the baby. Pissy more now. Bitchy towards him more often. Really if you accepted him before and chose to have a baby with him then you can only look to you for the choices you've made. It's really not fair to him. Having a baby is hard. No more freedom. You're last on the priority list if you even make the priority list. You go from having all the attention on you as the preggy and now you're just tired and wishing for a bit of that TLC back but the baby gets all the attention. Lack of sex drive. Feeling like a mom instead of a babe. And the list goes on. Add feeling sorrow about missing your dad, and hell honey no wonder it's going to crap right now. Take tonight for you. Please. When he calls thank him for respecting your wishes. Did you guys make an agreement that he'd give up drinking entirely once the baby came or something? Because short of that all I see is you being in a bad mood and taking it out on him. It's an adjustment. Like so many other adjustments you have made before. You will handle it. I know you can handle just about anything. XO they did have an agreement that he would stop drinking when the baby came. And if I recall. he does go on binges and sometimes that leds to him doing cocaine as well. but I am not sure. It is amazing what you put up with yourself but when you have a kid sis suddenly isn't ok anymore. I have been in a similar situation and Bo you have my sympathy.
jwi71 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 A court will in extreme and documented cases deny visitation to a substance abusing parent. OP, document each and every time he is drunk and/or stoned. By document I mean call the cops and have him arrested each and every time. You go to court and he has 5 arrests for domestic disturbance as caused by substance abuse - he'll have zero rights and you'll have a TPO. If they don't deny him visitation, it'll be supervised and he'll be subject to random drug and alcohol testing. I am not saying previous posters are wrong, but IME documented histories matter. A great deal. I don't know the story but if he is alcoholic and a cocaine user, the best thing you can do is report him each and every time. It isn't cruel. It isn't mean. It isn't petty. It's the right thing to do for you, for him and your baby.
2sunny Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 he knew ahead of time that BO's guidelines were that he NOT behave this way. he CHOSE to disregard her boundaries. when push comes to shove - he will choose the alcohol over you and your child every time... unless he gets help and stays in recovery. he has made his choice perfectly clear (he drank when you asked him not to)... now it's time for you to decide what your boundaries will or will not allow from him. then stick with the consequences IF and WHEN he chooses to drink or use. did we do this before? or did we just all talk about it? i can't remember - but either way... it's not good where it stands at the moment.
GPFan Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Hi blind otter, This is about setting boundaries and enforcing them. Your boundaries are reasonable and he, at one time, agreed to honour them. Now that you have enforced this boundary be clear as to what it would take to reconcile. List specific benchmarks and how to verify those benchmarks. This will not be a short-term struggle and the odds are not with him unless he moves forward with determined intent. Forgive yourself for any childish behaviour. Stress, worry and hopelessness often erupt in worse expressions than childishness. Another factor to consider is the age of your son. If your son becomes used to having him in the home as he grows older, then you add another layer of difficulty when it comes time to separate. The younger he is the easier it will be for both of you. I wish you strength and peace in the coming days.
Geishawhelk Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 Blind-Otter you are completely right. To make any concessions towards him now is playing into his hands. You have set lines and he has crossed them. No More Mrs Nice Gal!! An Alcoholic will make every excuse in the book to both justifiy and reason, from their side of the fence. Alcoholism is an addiction. It's a sickness. It's unacceptable around children, because any laxity teaches the children that it's ok to carry on like this. It isn't. Plain, simple and end of it. Take no half-measures, and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. You've bent over backwards for this guy, so far, you've ended up looking at your own @$$. Well, stand straight, tall and proud, because you're doing this for you, and your baby. And rightly so.
Author blind_otter Posted November 2, 2008 Author Posted November 2, 2008 Thank you all for both the support and the advice. I am not keeping S/O from our son, not in any stretch of the imagination - and I never would do that, I just do NOT want my son to grow up thinking that it's OK to drink to this extent, or to cope with the stressor of life by escaping with substance abuse. I did it, and I struggled for nearly a decade to overcome those patterns. My S/O is still an active alcoholic. I know that the cards are stacked against my son, in terms of him avoiding this. I am bound and determined to STOP this cycle so that he does not have to wade through the swamps of sh*t that I have, that his grandfathers (both of them) have, that his father is wading through. I am in contact with my S/O. We are going to go to church this morning. He claims that he wants to take a better path, that he wants to get help and admit that he is powerless over alcohol. To be honest, I just don't believe him. I'll believe actions more than words. I am terrified that he will have my son overnight and will go out drinking. He says this would never happen but I know that you know when an alcoholic is lying when they open their mouth. For now he will not have any overnights with the baby, besides, when I try to pump barely any milk comes out. I think it's psychological and I'm afraid to let the milk come out because I know if it does, that means he can have the baby overnight...
jj33 Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 Provoke is a relative term. At a certain point you get fed up with dealing with not knowing when he will be drunk and when he will be sober. You have a child to take care of now. Whether he was a good partner to you before and whether you could deal with his ups and downs is irrelevant. You may have provoked that fight, but you dont cause him to binge drink. You are not the cause of his alcoholism nor do you have to put your child in harms way. We are talking about a small defenseless baby. Who cant call you if he is alone with his Dad and Dad is drunk. Who cant take care of things if they get out of hand while Dad is drinking. You HAVE to make sure your child is safe. If it gets to a custody fight, do you have people who could testify to his drinking so it is not just your word against his? Stay strong and dont get back with him until he has sought treatment. Go to alanon, find a lawyer to advise you. As for those who say there would be a lot of people without parents if they werent with alcoholic parents thats a poor poor excuse. People who are not in control of their alcohol consumption shouldnt be alone with small children who are depending on them. End of story.
Lishy Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 BO, you need to stay calm and level headed and you need to do what is right for your beautiful son! HE is what matters here and you are so right that you need to break the cycle of alchohol dependency that runs in both your families and yourselves. He will never be able to take your son so dont worry about that, men get nasty when backed in a corner and you mentioning his drinking is his achilles heel and he will jump on the defensive, it is quite normal Your son did not ask to be born so just concentrate on doing what is right for him You are a good girl and a great mum and you will be fine, and so will your son thanks to you x
whichwayisup Posted November 2, 2008 Posted November 2, 2008 I am sorry that this is going on, it shouldn't have to be this way...But you are doing the right thing. I hope one day soon your SO will wake up, fix himself by getting help so he can stop drinking so he can be a good reliable husband and father. Hugs B_O, I'm thinking of you.
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