pkn06002 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 In your case, PK, are you saying that if your wife is dissatified with some aspect of the marriage and you do not agree with her position, she is entitlted to cheat on you? Isn't that what you say justifies your cheating? Really I stated that where? I personally justified my cheating with being generally unhappy in my marriage. With issues caused by both myself and my wife. Never claimed that my justifications apply to anyone but me. But if she did cheat on me I wouldn't blame anyone but myself for not meeting her needs. Since it would be my fault for helping create the environment that would make her want to cheat. I do love your definition of the contract of marriage, as long as you don't cheat you can be as lazy as you want towards your spouse. That makes for one great marriage.
jwi71 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 SerenityX2 Nope, I don't make threats. I think he's blowing it off because he truly can't believe I'm saying what I'm saying. In his mind, I'm nuts because we don't have what most people would view as divorce material. We don't scream and yell, neither is cheating, no abuse - so what's the purpose of suggesting a divorce? That's why he thinks I'm nuts or unrealistic. But I don't think I am, I just think we've grown apart and we want different things. He truly believes we have everything. It's my fault entirely. I don't blame him at all. I've coped and struggled and argued on what I need. He doesn't need those things, therefore, he discounts them as unrealistic or friviolous or just plain stupid. I want laughter, I want affection, I want to try new things in bedroom, I want date nights, I want to sit outside and shoot the breeze about whatever, I want an activity that we can do together, I want him to lighten up a bit and relax, be playful. I don't want mundane, I don't want a kiss only in the bedroom, I don't want to do the same thing everytime we're behind closed doors, heck, I don't even want to do it behind closed doors, I don't want to pass each other by in the kitchen, I don't care if we have the latest, greatest gadget or live in a huge house. All of those things to him are familiar and comfortable and show success. All of those things to me signal a rut and lost passion mixed with complacency. There's no right or wrong here. There are many people who want what he wants. I want a mix of that I guess. I'm not ready to just throw in the towel. I've been coping with this for years and for whatever reason, my coping skills are burnt. They are gone, on vacation, I don't know where they went, but I'd like them back because I really don't want a divorce. On the flipside, I'm just not sure how long I can continue on this exact path. I can't make someone want what I want. Holy Crap. SerenityX2 is right...print this out and show it to him. I hate to say it, but I was very much like your H. Oh I totally get it. Now, my W never sat me down and told me all that (I wish she had). She dropped hints, she left clues but never said it - and I never clued in to it. I never truly heard her. I missed it. I was so damn busy working and making money, I projected my needs onto her. So her needs became my needs projected onto her. I wanted the money and the big house and 911 and the expensive clothes. So that's what I provided. Not what she wanted. She wanted everything you did. I swear I teared up reading the bold in your quote. Because after her A, this is what she was telling our MC. If he won't hear it from you, maybe he'll hear it from me. I mean you teo parallel us perfectly. Talking isn't working and I know you don't want to leave. Then ignore what I said and do what SerenityX2 said. Print this out and staple it to his forehead if you must. Then the two of you go find a MC. And talk. Vent. Yell. Scream. BTDT (and it really helps oddly enough). To the H: Change. Everything isn't alright. No doubt you're a good man but she has other wants and needs. My wife and I have two small kids. We both work. Totally get it. And we make time now for each other. She is far better at communicating and I listen 1000% better. Listen to her. Good luck
Reggie Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Really I stated that where? I personally justified my cheating with being generally unhappy in my marriage. With issues caused by both myself and my wife. Never claimed that my justifications apply to anyone but me. But if she did cheat on me I wouldn't blame anyone but myself for not meeting her needs. Since it would be my fault for helping create the environment that would make her want to cheat. I do love your definition of the contract of marriage, as long as you don't cheat you can be as lazy as you want towards your spouse. That makes for one great marriage. It makes for a very bad marriage. And, a person of integrity when faced with this does the honest thing. A person with less charcter does what you did. Doesn't mean you will always be this way. But, as long as you justify cheating and cannot take sole responsibility for the decison to address your dissatisfaction in an abusive and dishonest way, you will be stuck. No one is saying your wife played no role in the destruction of the marriage. But, it makes no sense to say that your decison to cheat was caused by this. When your kids disappoint you, will you cheat on them? In fact, if you have kids, you have already done so by cheating on your family.
jwi71 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Really I stated that where? I personally justified my cheating with being generally unhappy in my marriage. With issues caused by both myself and my wife. Never claimed that my justifications apply to anyone but me. But if she did cheat on me I wouldn't blame anyone but myself for not meeting her needs. Since it would be my fault for helping create the environment that would make her want to cheat. Wait a minute pk. Are you saying that your affair was caused by the actions of you and your wife but your wife's theoretical affair would be your fault only? huh?
pkn06002 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Wait a minute pk. Are you saying that your affair was caused by the actions of you and your wife but your wife's theoretical affair would be your fault only? huh? Here is how I will explain that. My philosophy on a relationship. "What's mine is mine, what is yours can be mine if taken correctly." Simple idea if you keep your partner happy they don't stray, so you better keep them that way or someone will take them. So yes it would be MY FAULT if she decided to stray (in my view) because I would've FAILED my RESPONSIBILITY in keeping my partner HAPPY. I will share the blame for my straying with her because she does not follow the same belief. My straying WAS NOT all her fault, I did not communicate effectively enough my needs in a way she understood.
pkn06002 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 It makes for a very bad marriage. And, a person of integrity when faced with this does the honest thing. A person with less charcter does what you did. Doesn't mean you will always be this way. But, as long as you justify cheating and cannot take sole responsibility for the decison to address your dissatisfaction in an abusive and dishonest way, you will be stuck. No one is saying your wife played no role in the destruction of the marriage. But, it makes no sense to say that your decison to cheat was caused by this. When your kids disappoint you, will you cheat on them? In fact, if you have kids, you have already done so by cheating on your family. Oh now the integrity argument. You really do need to think you are better then a WS don't you? You need to come to grips with the fact you played a part in the events that lead to your spouse cheating. Until you do that you will never move past being a victim.
Owl Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 The ONLY person responsible for my happiness is ME. The ONLY person responsible for YOUR happiness is YOU...not your wife. Thinking that someone else is responsible for YOUR happiness is what led you to have an affair...plain and simple.
Owl Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 My wife used to have that same mentality that you do, Pkn. Right after HER affair. Interestingly enough, she's the first person to tell everyone (our kids in particular) that the only person responsible to make them happy is themselves. This was a key lesson she learned through counseling after her affair.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Simple idea if you keep your partner happy they don't stray, so you better keep them that way or someone will take them. Then why didn't I cheat during my marriage? I wasn't completely happy either. You either have lousy character that allows you to cheat, or you don't.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Oh now the integrity argument. You really do need to think you are better then a WS don't you? why not? you think you are better than a BS. You said it yourself, you got tired of giving everything and getting nothing, as if you were Santa Claus.
pkn06002 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Then why didn't I cheat during my marriage? I wasn't completely happy either. You either have lousy character that allows you to cheat, or you don't. You never meet the right person, if you did you would. Don't think otherwise. Because if you do you are misleading yourself. Again Dr. Harley states that over and over in his material.
pkn06002 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 why not? you think you are better than a BS. You said it yourself, you got tired of giving everything and getting nothing, as if you were Santa Claus. I do?? I don't feel I am any better then any BS and no BS is any better then I am. Owl: Your right I am starting to understand that I am the only person that can make me happy. Unfortunatly things that make me happy don't make my wife happy. Which is a problem.
jwi71 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Your right I am starting to understand that I am the only person that can make me happy. Unfortunatly things that make me happy don't make my wife happy. Which is a problem. Good. Happiness comes from within. I am learning that too. However, one cannot be so selfish as to say "if it doesn't make me happy I won't participate". I sacrifice my "happiness" to do things my wife likes. Like cooking. I freakin' hate cooking. My wife loves it. Guess what I have been doing for the past several months. Cooking. Still hate cooking itself. But you know what, it makes my wife glow. And that makes me happy. Small price to pay. Sadly, I should have been doing it all along. And that is my shame.
SerenityX2 Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Good. Happiness comes from within. I am learning that too. However, one cannot be so selfish as to say "if it doesn't make me happy I won't participate". I sacrifice my "happiness" to do things my wife likes. Like cooking. I freakin' hate cooking. My wife loves it. Guess what I have been doing for the past several months. Cooking. Still hate cooking itself. But you know what, it makes my wife glow. And that makes me happy. Small price to pay. Sadly, I should have been doing it all along. And that is my shame. EXACTLY! It's sort of a pay it forward I suppose. You do something for your spouse that brings them joy, (doing something for another always makes you feel good in the process), the spouse reciprocates and the cycle continues. That's a benefit of giving, feeling good yourself. Happy does come from within, if you come with the mindset, I'm only doing this to get X that mindset will fail miserably. Someone else can never define or validate you or your happiness. And you can't *make* anyone else happy. There has to be compromise in a M that's the art of the dance. Sometimes you will do activities that both enjoy equally...other times there will be things that you do together that is one or the other geared. Everything you do together isn't always going to be exactly what the one wants at that time. But it's in that giving of yourself selflessly to another that brings joy. Obviously I'm not the only one that shares this ....so it is out there!
Reggie Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 To be honest, PK, I don't think I am better than you or any Ws. I'm just glad I haven't gone down that road. I know , for a fact, my XW was not happy with me. But, there was nothing i could do to change that. Like you, she had the idea that somone else was responsible for her happiness. And, she had such a void in her that no one could make her happy. She seemed to have the same attitude you do about cheating being justified if someone is not making you happy. Your adherence to your philosophy about taking others spouses being okay if they are not happy, shows you lack integrity.You are not a man that someone can trust. You are an opportunist without much of a conscience.
Holding-On Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 In other words, affairs sometimes work better than if you were married because you don't have to put up with your OW's unattractive qualities. This may be possibly it.
me4u2 Posted November 1, 2008 Posted November 1, 2008 I had to come back to this thread to thank everyone and apologize to the OP for hijacking the thread, lol! Serenity - I may show him this thread. I think it's a good idea. Although it's not something he hasn't heard before, but maybe seeing it on paper will be another form of driving it home. You're right, caving hasn't gotten me anywhere so I need not to choose that route again. PKN - It does scare me a bit to hear that I'm a walking affair. I must admit the other day when a complete stranger touched my lower back to guide me through the door at my daughter's school, it felt nice. A complete stranger. I never saw him - He could be a freak. But yet it felt nice. That so ridiculously scary and stupid I don't even have the words to explain it. He didn't have time to do the right things or say the right things though, so I'm safe, lol! JWI - It gives me hope though that you went through this and it sounds as though everything is great now. Yes, he is very much like you in some aspects I see, not all I'm sure. We have material things and while they are nice and I feel unbelieveably grateful, they are not on my priority list. His answer is a Mercedes, our country club community and a home that to me is almost embarrassing for 2 people and 2 small children. But he loves it, it's his thing, who am I to squash what he loves. I don't even socialize with most of the people here because I simply don't relate to them. Yet when we moved here I told him time and time again I did not see this as a good move. But here we are, his ways of talking circles around me won yet again. I believe this is why it's so hard for him to understand and really get what I'm saying. Usually with some of his "logical" talking, my "emotional" talking goes to the wayside. Thanks again! I will read this thread again and process all the advice.
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