Shattered After a Fight. Need Support Today.

[wildsoul]

On on my last nerve and don't know how to get my equilibrium back. My SM and I had a big stupid fight last night that doesn't directly tie in with the OW/M topic, but you're my support circle so I'm hoping you might help me calm down and get clear.

 

Sorry for the length. I'm terrible at brevity.

 

We've been in a really great space overall. Some of you might recall that I went thru an insecure phase a couple weeks ago, with some trust issues surfacing. My guy responded to those by suggesting we have a 3-day weekend at home together, and on that weekend did several things to express his committment to me (such as giving me a key to his apartment and a few other things.) It was sweet. He took me to a park and said it would be a great place to have our wedding someday. We've had a splended few weeks!

 

Last night, I got tickets to a performance for us. I was really looking forward to getting dressed up and taking him to a swank restaurant and then the event. To make sure he understood how I wanted our date to go, I called him early in the day to discuss what time for him to arrive and requested that he wear a nice button-down shirt. He said okay, and that he might arrive a little earlier. Fine. I was all excited.

 

He arrived 30-min late, wearing an old polo shirt, khakis, and a baseball cap. I was really disappointed, waiting for him to explain why. Nothing. Then I started feeling agitated and embarrassed because I was all dressed up and didn't want to be seen with us looking like the odd-couple. I'm not usually shallow, but he burst my fantasy bubble on the night I'd planned over 2 months ago.

 

When he didn't acknowledge the lateness or attire, I got terse and complained that, "We are 30-min late and don't think we have time for dinner now. But you're not dressed appropriately for the place I was taking us too anyways. Why did you tell me you understood the time and agree to wear something nice, then show up late in a tshirt?"

 

And then it turned into WWIII.

 

For my part, I can see how complaining strunk a wrong cord. My only explanation is that it really rubbed me wrong that I had called specifically about what to wear earlier in the day and was stunned/disappointed. Also, I thought we were secure enough in our R now that I could speak up and that he would respond with an acknowledgement of sorts, and we'd move on to having a great night.

 

Instead, he shouted at me. He went on to say that I was moody, unpredictable, and histrionic. (I didn't feel like I was being histrionic.) Then he proceeds to tell me that he'd spent all of the evening prior arguing with his W over visitation rights with their dog, and that he couldn't stand dealing with 2 women upset with him, etc. His reaction was disproportionary. Much of what was said is a blur; he fires fast and I don't like responding w/o thinking. I do remember saying hotly, "Your upset with your W is not about me and I don't want to deal with your M in our R." Blunt as hell, but I was getting killed by his over-reaction.

 

The grand finale came when we started to calm it down by choosing to go to the event anyways. He was stone cold silent while I was driving. A few blocks from home, I realized that I would be mortified to out in public with this guy dressed like a schmoe and acting like an a**. So I calmly said, "Are you sure you want to go?" If he would have been kind or contrite, I'd have matched him. But instead, he demanded to get out of the car. I turned around and drove him back to my place. He told me to go without him.

 

I was annoyed and thought I'd feel like a bigger loser by letting this drama keep me from going to the event (which was also a financial splurge in a desperate time for me.) So I decided to call a girlfriend, and begged her to go with me last-minute. She agreed. Meanwhile, he was downstairs and said to me "I'm leaving," and proceeded to pack up and go. By the time I got downstairs, he was practically in his car.

 

I soon left for the event. My friend and I both had a crap day (a friend of hers died) so it was okay that we were both a bit down. At least I didn't have an empty seat next to me at the sold-out event. I've known this friend for about 30 years. It felt like I was doing the right thing to go w/o him, but I dunno what's right. I really don't.

 

He has turned his phone off. I called and left 3 messages last night. Using my calm voice. Trying to establish reconnection. I knew he was avoiding a rehash of issues, so my last message was simply to please call me so we don't go to bed upset with each other. He ignored me. His phone has been turned off ever since.

 

I was awake with anxious knots in my belly most of the night. There's been a couple of work conflicts with an important colleague of mine today. I hadn't cried last night, trying to be calm thinking we'd sort it out. But last night, combined with financial and biz stress today is killing me. I get into a really dark place sometimes, and I'm slipping into it now.

 

I've called his phone several times today. I don't know if he gets a ping about the missed call if his phone is off. I hope not. I don't want to stalk or be creepy. It's brutalizing that he's not called me back.

 

What do I do? I'm so stressed out and feel like I can't handle my life issues. I'm really overwhelmed and getting more hopeless by the minute. Help a girl out?

[jwi71]

Calm down.

 

He will contact you on his time...when he is ready.

 

Yes, he was acting like a sod. No, you didn't sound terribly bitchy to me. Yes, you have every right to be upset.

 

I think you will find his mind was/is elsewhere. Something is bothering, especially if this is abnormal behavior for him. Give him a bit of time and space. Be prepared to listen.

 

And stop calling him. He will call or knock.

 

Hate to admit it, but this man has done the same insensitive stupid things. And, if my memory serves correctly...my mind was somewhere else pushing the event farther down my list of priorities. And try not to think the worst.

 

Deep breath. Now, be patient. One yelling match doesn't mean the sky is falling.

[Geishawhelk]

Help you out?

 

Read your signature.

Enough said.

[whichwayisup]

Hate to say it, but the bottomline is this - Slow it down and I mean really slow down this thing with him. He obviously isn't ready for another relationship so soon after his break up with his wife. The way he is treating you, his actions, his disrespect, all of it are all signs that he isn't ready.

 

This has nothing to do with him loving you, it's about timing and right now that timing is very off.

 

Give him space, stop calling him, let him approach you. And, when he does, tell him you're fed up, that you want some space. Take control here and put yourself first.

[jj33]

Hey. Im not sure I have the best advice on this topic (I tend to crumble in these situations) but can offer a big big hug.

 

OK first this was bound to happen. The guy is dealing with a lot and in this case he is taking it out on you. He needs time to calm down. he needs time to process what is going on.

 

Yes its alot about him. Where is GEL she may say I am dead wrong and would follow her advice on that as she has done this and made it work!!

 

But as much as it is about him in many ways it is also about you. And when he calms down (which he will) its time to talk in our calm voices... as you tried last night but he could not hear or talk in his...

 

AND he could not be rational last night as he was way overstressed about everything and you got caught in the crossfire.

 

He needs to understand that as you said, you arent the depository for his stress. This was a big night you had planned for the 2 of you.

 

This guy sounds like he has control and passive agressive stuff going on. He had an awful night and he didnt want to show up and do what someone else wanted him to do when he was feeling squeezed by xW. So he showed you that you are not hte boss of him he will show up when and wearing whatever he pleases.

 

Not fair when you werent the one he fought with.

 

I think the thing to do is breathe breathe breathe and let him calm down. The walls are closing in on him - not from you from the dissolution of the M. And he is bouncing off walls and slamming into you.

 

He should apologize. He has to apologize. The issue is how long will it take him to gather himself together to man up and say really really sorry I lost the plot..

 

Big hug

[whichwayisup]

The walls are closing in on him - not from you from the dissolution of the M. And he is bouncing off walls and slamming into you.

 

All the more reason for her to slow down this relationship. He isn't divorced yet and he has alot of emotional baggage still to deal with and sort through. He more than likely isn't in the place where he can give Wild 100%.

[jj33]

I agree WWIU. The whole thing is just starting to hit him.

[mytruelove]

"Then he proceeds to tell me that he'd spent all of the evening prior arguing with his W over visitation rights with their dog, and that he couldn't stand dealing with 2 women upset with him, etc."

 

all i can say is welcome to the club!!! i've got the same thing going on here. my guys ex used to rehash things with him all the time -over and over- and he hates that. he told me yesterday that he new how i felt, i've told him 100 times and he doesn't need to here it 101 times.

 

he also has problems with the other "woman" in his life and the baggage and he is someone that has to compartmetalize. most men are this way. they can only deal with one thing at a time and i've learned to understand that.

 

mine said he cannot handle one more thing.

 

it seems to me from reading this that yours was stressed about the fight with W and that he used the lack of clothing and lateness as an excuse to not go out that night. it seems like a purposeful act to me for whatever reason or whatever he has going on.

 

i feel for you. i know how difficult it is to wait things out after a fight or tension, but i think you need to give it space.

 

i would let the raw emotion subside and then see where things go from there and give it some space.

 

you did great by going with your friend - what a show of independence and caring for yourself - great-continue that!!! self care - remember love yourself first!!!

 

i understand your hurt and know how difficult it is. (((hugs)))

 

read my thread -lol.

[Mino]

Hate to say it, but the bottomline is this - Slow it down and I mean really slow down this thing with him. He obviously isn't ready for another relationship so soon after his break up with his wife. The way he is treating you, his actions, his disrespect, all of it are all signs that he isn't ready.

 

This has nothing to do with him loving you, it's about timing and right now that timing is very off.

 

Give him space, stop calling him, let him approach you. And, when he does, tell him you're fed up, that you want some space. Take control here and put yourself first.

Got to hand it to you wwisup.. Your advise is best:love: I had these issues with my sm.. I took a step back...slowed it down... You dont need to take abuse.. let him figure his life out first.. He is still grieving and carring guilt.. He needs to work through this and it is difficult for him to go thru this process while in a relatiionship with you.. It will get worse .. back off like I did... its really the only chance you got to make it work in the future..

[whichwayisup]

Thanks for the compliment mino. Hope you're hanging in OK..

 

If I'm not adoring him, he gets difficult.

 

Wild, I took this quote from another thread, and it makes me wonder if this guy is still in affair mode with you, not one on one healthy relationship mode. To be honest, it sounds like he's just pure selfish and wants it all to be about him right now. His rough days with wife, dealing with her..Then he wants you to 'be' there for him, to listen to him, to adore him, pump him up, make him feel better. Well, what about you? Relationships are give and take, and so far, all I've seen from what you've said, he just takes!

 

Again, all the more reason to slow it down and focus on you, your own life, work, friends, family.. Don't put in as much effort into him because he certainly isn't giving you much effort. Timing...Remember that.

[Mino]

Did I read that right? Visitations rights with their DOG???? Are there children too? or is it just the dog??? If its about the dog I am speechless. I mean the pound is full of dogs who need a new home... I grw up with dogs so I do love them myself... but zi just think its crazy if he has contact with the BW because of a family pet.. Thats where i would draw the line... to me that is an excuse to keep contact... I mean a dog? Plkease tell me their are also children....You may consider getting him a puppy for an early christmas??? Yes???

[whichwayisup]

They don't have kids, but the dog IS like their kid - So it seems, and they're treating it as such.

 

You'd be surprised to hear that some couples actually go to court to sort out visitation and custody of animals after a break up. A friend of mine's boyfriend has had joint custody with his dog and his ex for about 4 years now.. It's funny they've all sort of become friends because of the dog!

[wildsoul]

Thank you everyone. I'm starting to feel a teeny bit better. *exhale*

 

The advice about slowing things down when it gets weird is tried and true. That's how we've managed to get this far. Overall, I've been doing pretty well with that, trying to take a be-in-the-moment approach. When I do it, it works. Thanks for the strong reminder.

 

He is the one that gets very future-oriented. He is always doing things like accidently referring to me as his wife (in conversations between us, not others) and suggesting locations for our wedding, places we might live, etc. It's potent for me, but I try to take it lightly as wishful thinking, not a promise yet. I know he means it, yet to protect myself, I need to minimize it a little if that makes sense.

 

Something is occurring to me now. Tell me what you think. I am loathe to be one of those girls that makes up a whole cock/bull story about her guy's "real" motives. But a few things I read today are making me think.

 

For the last few weeks, HE has been going faster and deeper in his declarations of committment. Maybe that is adding to his tensions too. As talk of our future gets more real, so does his need to step up from separation to divorce.

 

Also, since he's been separated for almost 2 months now (and NOT going back to visit his W) she might be getting more upset too. I don't know what she's doing exactly. He only tells me vaguely that she's trying to get him back, but that's he's not "playing ball" and she's upset.

 

So if his process is speeding up, maybe he's going to test me/us a bit. Maybe he's just more tense. Where we left off last weekend was swoony fabulous, so I actually felt more secure--enough to be able to complain about last night's lapse w/o thinking it would wreck us. But I didn't know about the fight with his W.

 

JJ, last nite my friend said the same as you: he's probably upset thinking you are trying to control him and he's already got control issues as he is sorting out crap with his W.

 

Maybe he was being forgetful about our plans from stress, or perhaps he was rebelling...but in any case, he sure as HELL rebelled against me complaining and turned it into a huge fight.

 

You all are right about me needing to NOT call him anymore. It's obviously the smarter thing to wait till he is done being upset. If I call now and insist on talking, he's just going to feel more controlled. That's why he has the damn ringer off. He is controlling me that way. Ugh. I hate this game.

 

I'll try to chill out. Maybe it's good that his phone is off. This way, we are guaranteed to not have a breakup call in the heat of the moment (which is a risk with us.) I wish he would just email or text saying something reassuring. I can deal with space, but I don't like wondering if this is deadly serious or just a temporary fight. I'm a worry monster and get very fatalistic.

 

Think I'll channel my obsessive energy into LS and doing some mindless tasks around the house today. If I can resist the temptation to keep dialing him, that would be at least a small step in the right direction.

[mytruelove]

"I'll try to chill out. Maybe it's good that his phone is off. This way, we are guaranteed to not have a breakup call in the heat of the moment (which is a risk with us.) I wish he would just email or text saying something reassuring. I can deal with space, but I don't like wondering if this is deadly serious or just a temporary fight. I'm a worry monster and get very fatalistic."

 

sounds like a great idea - that's what i meant about letting the raw emotion subside first. i'm a worry monster just like you. i'm always amazed at how much more clearly i see things when i resist those initial panic urges. reassurance is a much needed thing in a relationship as well as communication - sooo what he does now will show a lot about his character.

 

it has been my experience that growth - one way or another - always takes place from these kind of situations.

 

hang in there hon.

[wildsoul]

They don't have kids, but the dog IS like their kid - So it seems, and they're treating it as such.

Correct, there are no children involved.

The dog issue is one of the only leverage points his W has, so she's using it. Technically, the dog is more hers because they adopted it from the W's sister who is ill. But my guy has been the primary caretaker for the dog. It's not some out of proportion battle. She lets him have the dog for a few days at a time. But when she feels like he is ignoring her, she kicks up a fuss about it.

 

To his credit, he won't even drive up to his former home to get the dog. He insists that he's not going back there. When it's time to pickup or return the dog, he meets her halfway on the drive between their homes.

 

I think he's handling the dog issue just fine. Hell, I don't even fault her much. She's desperate to have any leverage. It sucks to go thru a D. I'm not unsympathetic to the craziness of either party.

 

WWIU: You are echoing my concerns about "affair mode," etc. (Wow, that was such a good post last week, that I've been thinking about it ever since.) To be fair, I've been quiet on the board about all the good my guy has demonstrated. He moved out. He doesn't spend time with his W at all. He spends all of his time with me, moreoever he completely dotes on me. I'm lavished with praise, attention, and declarations of intent.

 

Bottom-line though is the same: I've got to keep focusing on my life and remember that our R is still a transitional one. He's still got a long ways to go. It seems shorter when things are great, but when we are having these conflicts it seems like it's going to be a loooong road.

[PG Love]

Are we dating the same SM? J/K, but omg it sounds the same. My SM told me the other week that I was being too needy because he told me he would call me after work and never did. Then I proceded to call/txt a couple of time through out the evening and he didn't answer. Finally at 10:00 that night he finally answers and we get into an arguement. I send a txt not nasty, but not great either, he turns off his phone and won't answer all the next morning until later then is very short. Anyway, I said all of that to say that yes, give him some space and let him seek you out. I know it feels impossible, been there. Now he says he's the needy one because I've backed off and let him come to me. Just be there for him when he's ready.

 

Good Luck!

[jj33]

I am really bad at these situations but...

 

when you stop calling him for a day or so then he says wait she is not chasing me anymore. What if she is really upset and she is not there? And then he will need to come forward and apologize. Sometimes when people are upset and they feel wronged (even if they are in the wrong) they sulk...

 

The other person says please lets talk etc and they just dont say anything... but when the other person stops asking they have the space to come forward.

 

He sounds like he has a lot of anger bottled up. It may take some time to sort this through. He may benefit from IC if he is not already in it.

[GreenEyedLady]

Help a girl out?

 

OH HELL NO!

 

Do not call him again.

 

This is a hill to die on.

 

Don't let him pull this crap. If he didn't want you pissed at him, he should have shown up like he said he would, when he said he would.

 

He's acting like a child. Call him on it. Do not answer his calls for twice the time he hasn't called you back. No more messages. Oh and call block your number and see if he picks up.

 

He's lucky he has YOU. Not the other way around.

 

GEL

[GreenEyedLady]

Just be there for him when he's ready.

 

No, no, no!

 

This directly reinforces the behavior. You need to replace the behavior with a desired behavior: ie communicating about what's really the problem or not being an ass.

 

He needs to be there, period. Not when he feels like it, not when it's easy or fun, he needs to be there. No one should feel grateful that someone is with them.

 

You have to show them that their are consequences. Like they're an ass and you become a bitch.

[jj33]

GEL... I knew you would know what to do!!

[LucreziaBorgia]

Being a separated person in a relationship is hard. You get a ton of grief from one end dealing with the marriage and its dissolution, and when something like this happens on the other it tends to get blown out of proportion big time.

 

You are dealing with someone whose heart is in a pressure cooker. It is not fair, but I can remember when OM would say and do things that would hit me like that - the first thing I would think is ... "I'm leaving my marriage for THIS?! I have a shot at being free for the first time in X years and I'm going to waste it on THIS instead?!" and get all pissed off, big time. Overly so, sometimes.

 

People who are in frying pans don't want to jump into the fire - even when there may not be a fire there, you can bet they are paranoid about there being one... so, you get angry overreaction.

 

You can react angrily, sadly, indifferently - it makes no difference. When you are involved with a separated person, there are times where it is going to unavoidably be "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

 

The least damaging thing you can do right now is to simply let it cool it down some.

[GreenEyedLady]

Being a separated person in a relationship is hard. You get a ton of grief from one end dealing with the marriage and its dissolution, and when something like this happens on the other it tends to get blown out of proportion big time.

 

You are dealing with someone whose heart is in a pressure cooker. It is not fair, but I can remember when OM would say and do things that would hit me like that - the first thing I would think is ... "I'm leaving my marriage for THIS?! I have a shot at being free for the first time in X years and I'm going to waste it on THIS instead?!" and get all pissed off, big time. Overly so, sometimes.

 

People who are in frying pans don't want to jump into the fire - even when there may not be a fire there, you can bet they are paranoid about there being one... so, you get angry overreaction.

 

You can react angrily, sadly, indifferently - it makes no difference. When you are involved with a separated person, there are times where it is going to unavoidably be "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

 

The least damaging thing you can do right now is to simply let it cool it down some.

 

And you're back with your H right?

 

Don't you think that has much more to do with it? You weren't done. When people are done, they're done.

 

And if they're not, do you really want to be with them?

 

They're making your life hell, just to go back to their spouse?

[wildsoul]

OH HELL NO!

 

Do not call him again.

 

This is a hill to die on.

 

Don't let him pull this crap. If he didn't want you pissed at him, he should have shown up like he said he would, when he said he would.

 

He's acting like a child. Call him on it. Do not answer his calls for twice the time he hasn't called you back. No more messages. Oh and call block your number and see if he picks up.

 

He's lucky he has YOU. Not the other way around.

 

GEL

Thank you, GEL. I was hoping you'd chime in. I would LOVE to hear your take on this part:

 

I cannot abide the abandonment w/o calling thing. I'm a good GF in that is someone wants a bit of space, and lets me know that it's not a relationship problem and that they'll be back, I can chill out. I have other things to do. But I need them to handle that communication very clearly, e.g. "I'm going home, but let's talk tomorrow." or whatever. Abandoning me is not only rude and disrespectful, but for me personally it really triggers some trauma-level of pain. I can't be in a R with someone who doesn't fix that behavior.

 

No, no, no!

 

This directly reinforces the behavior. You need to replace the behavior with a desired behavior: ie communicating about what's really the problem or not being an ass.

 

He needs to be there, period. Not when he feels like it, not when it's easy or fun, he needs to be there. No one should feel grateful that someone is with them.

 

You have to show them that their are consequences. Like they're an ass and you become a bitch.

I might have already reinforced (by my calling him) that he can abandon me and that if he really wants space, all he has to do is turn the phone off. This is the first time he's ever done that to me. It needs to be the last.

 

So GEL, given the importance of this topic to me, do you still think that ignoring his calls (when he does call) is the best response. It does sound a little bit like a game to me, but I'm more about effectiveness than anything else. Seriously, I cannot tolerate this avoidant behavior. And what happens later? Do I bring this issue up directly or not? What do you think?

[wildsoul]

You are dealing with someone whose heart is in a pressure cooker. It is not fair, but I can remember when OM would say and do things that would hit me like that - the first thing I would think is ... "I'm leaving my marriage for THIS?! I have a shot at being free for the first time in X years and I'm going to waste it on THIS instead?!" and get all pissed off, big time. Overly so, sometimes.

<snip>

The least damaging thing you can do right now is to simply let it cool it down some.

I see your point of course. I get like that with him, too. It tends to intensify the conflicts. "I'm waiting on a still-married man for THIS?! I'm single now, can date anyone I want, and I'm going to settle for THIS instead?!" Just last night, it was going through my head when he showed up looking shabby for our date.

 

You last sentence reminds me of something a friend said. I was just remembering it earlier tonight (while successfully trying not to call.) "I never knew a bad day that couldn't be made worse."

 

At minimum, not making it worse is my goal. And ya'all are right. Calling him will make it worse. GEL is making me think that answering my phone might make it worse too. Thanks for being here while I ride out the obsessive impulses.

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. And you're back with your H right?

 

2. Don't you think that has much more to do with it? You weren't done. When people are done, they're done.

 

3. And if they're not, do you really want to be with them?

 

4. They're making your life hell, just to go back to their spouse?

 

1. Yup, sure am.

 

2. Nope. H and I were done. We were done for years but weren't divorced.

 

3. OM didn't want to be with me not because of H, but because he didn't want kids in his life (he wanted me to be a 'weekend only' parent) and he couldn't handle the cancer. So, he left.

 

4. I didn't get back with H until nearly 8 months after OM broke things off.

 

The problems I mentioned in the prior post took place when things were on track for the divorce. Of course, everything changed...