No more Mr. Nice Guy

[dannydrifter]

Most women don't seem to give a rat's ass about a good man, unless that man (to their eyes) is gorgeous/handsome/attractive. If they find you are "hot", then everything else will proceed with average effort required. From my experiences, if you meet that need, it doesn't matter how pathetic you are in every other category. Women, scoff at this all you want but you know it's true. And I love it when you run across those women who like to say they aren't into playing games, etc. These are the worst ones. Women tend to think it's all about what the guy has to offer. Every one of them dreams of mr tall dark and handsome.

[Tony T]

I really don't think a lot of people understand the concept here. By jerk, we are not talking about someone who is MEAN but a guy who simply doesn't always return calls or doesn't return them right away, a guy who doesn't shower a female with gifts or favors, a guy who is unpredictable, a guy who is not always available. There is a fine art to it but if a guy gets it right he can have ANY WOMAN IN THE WORLD who is available no matter what they say!!!!

[monkey00]

I really don't think a lot of people understand the concept here. By jerk, we are not talking about someone who is MEAN but a guy who simply doesn't always return calls or doesn't return them right away, a guy who doesn't shower a female with gifts or favors, a guy who is unpredictable, a guy who is not always available. There is a fine art to it but if a guy gets it right he can have ANY WOMAN IN THE WORLD who is available no matter what they say!!!!

 

There may be a fine art to it. But there has to be something from the start to have these women clawing to get the guy within their reach. Still I find most younger women are attracted to the jerk types..older women have more mature taste in men.

[CommitmentPhobe]

What the hell is all this nice guy/jerk stuff anyway? I think about all the guys I've known and I can't subdivide them. There's like, guys that get a lot of girls and guys that don't get so many. I've met c***s that are useless with women and decent guys that are good with them.

[CaliGuy]

I've tried treating women nice, treating women with respect and tried to make a woman happy, but I realized one thing. Women like Jerks and I am not a Jerk, but a doormat. Women spin me lines like "You're a nice guy, some day a woman will make you happy" usually my Ex's tell me this trash. Well as of today, I'm gonna be a Grade A Jerk. Women are all the same (heartless) so I'm just gonna use them for sex and throw them aside when I'm done.

 

(Yeah, I am hurting from my recent split of two days ago, that's not the point)

 

Nah. Don't need to be a jerk, just balanced. Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (Glover) to understand what that means....

[Green]

I should write a book I'd basicly have to strech out "do what it takes to get what you want" to about 300 pages. Yeah do what it takes to get what you want. If you want to be a jerk and get women then go for it. I truely think its the only way you'll figure all this out is if you try it out. For the love of god and my own personal entertainment please do it this weekend and please get back to us on your experiences

[Constant]

The moment you pretend to be someone else, you lose.

 

The moment you act against your nature, you lose.

 

Don't change who you are to try to get what you think you want.

 

And don't be so cynical. Your pain from having been rejected is seeping into your mentality about an entire gender. Just because women aren't grabbin on your shishkabob (to quote Eminem) at the moment - it doesn't mean that the right one won't walk into your life in a couple years.

 

Years.

 

That's right, prepare to be by yourself, live FOR yourself, and really work on improving your life, your mind, your body, and your attitude. That way, when a good woman comes along, what does she find? YOU - the total package, and someone who doesn't NEED her, but would probably be quite interested in talking to her nonetheless.

 

The right woman? I hear this constantly, it's a lie from start to finish. There is no such thing as a right woman. I thought the girl I was with was perfect and now I'm starting to have doubts.

 

Why should I change just so more women are attracted to me? I am who I am and I am not going to change so some woman can muscle her way into my innermost fantasies and secrets and then tear my heart into a thousand tiny little pieces by having an affair or treating me like a bitter adversary.

[Constant]

here it is the last girl you were with ruined you. This is what happens..now when you find a nice girl you will be a jerk and that will end just because the ones before her treated u horrible. Gosh that sucks for the next one.

 

I think you need to find yourself before you turn into a complete jerk. Just because you tasted a few sour grapes does not mean the next one won't be sweet.

 

And right now if your looking for a nice girl...you must get over this frustration and anger.

 

DO HAVE FUN and do live your life to the fullest. A woman likes a confident man and she does not want a door mat so stick up for self by all means.

 

She hasn't ruined me, she has just made me realise that women no matter what they masquerade around are pretty much the same. The women who pretend they are all sweet and nice are the worst, from personal experience.

 

I'm not looking for anyone, I want my ex back when she gets better and that won't happen and I don't want anyone else. I only decided to instigate the breakup because I had her best interests at heart - I dind't think it would be over for good. So, pardon me if I am a little angry and frustrated, but women tend to say one thing and mean another.

 

All the grapes are sour, because life is just sour. How anyone can enjoy life is beyond me, it's pretty overrated and it's not some precious gift either, if it was why do so many people walk around with their head facing downwards and appear depressed, repressed and seldom smile from one month to next?

 

I do stick up for myself - I have a nasty streak in me which likes to play mind games, it hasn't surfaced for this girl, because this is the first girl I've fallen for, but I have used it on other girls and it worked a charm. Talk in riddles and use some home truths and the tears just start flowing, brilliant!

[Vertex]

Clearly you're bitter, and that's a normal reaction in your situation, I'd say -- but your words show unhealthy unrest and volatility (also, games tend to be poor forms of communication). The point of "self-improvement" is not to change who you are as a person, but to regain your self-confidence, and heal after a failed relationship. The point is to take who you are and improve upon yourself -- to make your strong points shine brighter. The point of the process is to help you move on from heartbreak and control damage in the best way possible.

 

If someone has "torn your heart into a thousand little pieces," strengthening yourself is the best way to put it back together. As you begin to work on your attitude, mind, and body, you start to feel a lot better about yourself. You learn to be more independent and secure with who you are as a person.

 

Certainly, the point is not to change yourself into someone you're not. But clearly you are bitter about women, and that kind of attitude is not going to facilitate your healing or help you move on, nor is it going to be attractive to other girls, or show much confidence in yourself at all.

 

Oftentimes, early on in the dating game, we think someone is perfect, but we are seeing them with green, inexperienced eyes through rose-tinted glasses. Over time you refine what it is you really want in a woman (after having learned what works and what doesn't), and this will help you find someone more suitable for you when you are patient enough.

[D-Jam]

I've tried treating women nice, treating women with respect and tried to make a woman happy, but I realized one thing. Women like Jerks and I am not a Jerk, but a doormat. Women spin me lines like "You're a nice guy, some day a woman will make you happy" usually my Ex's tell me this trash. Well as of today, I'm gonna be a Grade A Jerk. Women are all the same (heartless) so I'm just gonna use them for sex and throw them aside when I'm done.

 

(Yeah, I am hurting from my recent split of two days ago, that's not the point)

I understand your pain. It sucks as a guy when you think you did everything right, but you suddenly end up alone while guys who seemingly do everything wrong are getting the attention of women. You get insane in your mind and wonder to death why a gender appears to be drawn sexually more to being mistreated, played, and abused...as opposed to being cared about.

 

I will freely and proudly admit I am a nice guy. I believe that a real man is one who carries himself with the conduct of a gentleman, and he treats women well not on the idea of gaining validation, but more because he sees women as beautiful creatures. He values them in a positive fashion the way he values his own mother.

 

I have been rejected a LOT in my life. Believe me, I was the guy women all over would say "he's so nice" or my personal favorite, "he's going to make some lucky girl very very happy in life"...yet it's funny how many women didn't seem to ever fashion themselves as that lucky girl.

 

I've had plenty of women reject me basically because I was not seen as "exciting". They lusted for the bad boys, *******s, jerks, etc...because they craved not only a relationship, but excitement. I used to let it get to me. I used to even think "I'm just not what women want". I would go years alone between girlfriends and then get that one girl who decided they wanted love and stability than to try to tame a wild beast.

 

In all my failures, I never decided to become one of the said "bad people" in order to get women, only because I saw it as lowering myself. I saw it as tossing my dignity and integrity out the window to get a piece of arse. I also saw it as a continuation of a bad cycle where nice guys get rejected, get fed up and become "bad", then they hurt women who then become flakey and "damaged", who then reject nice guys to keep running to bad men...and so on.

 

And what of these women Constant? One night I had gotten into a fight with a girl who FZed me long ago to chase bad boys. She had found out her "Mr Big" was sleeping with another girl we both knew. While this guy never committed to anything with anyone (thus he did nothing wrong), my friend thus realized she was another piece of tail to him, and not "special" as she wanted to hope for. She and I ended up in an argument about this and she said a few things personal on me that really set me off, mostly along the lines that I didn't know anything and wasn't a real man because I was not getting laid all the time.

 

I got mad and went to a birthday party that night, got a little drunk, decided to act like this guy my friend so lusted for...and I ended up having a ONS with some girl I met that night who had a similar flakey mentality like my friend. I knew this woman would yawn if I was a gentleman to her, but she wanted me when I played aloof, arrogant, egotistical, and treated her like meat.

 

I woke up that morning feeling empty, but I learned something valuable that you too need to learn Constant. I didn't see this woman as a conquest, nor as anything I would want to get into a RL with. I saw her basically as trash. Someone who needs to be treated badly so she can have her "challenge" and thus find attraction. As I went home, I imagined how being in a RL with a girl like that would be a lot of drama, and even imagined this girl and girls like her would easily cheat, but play the victim card if busted.

 

That's the commonality of women who CHASE the bad men. I'm not talking about women who met someone who came off as a decent man, then turned into a jerk...but the women who then try to stay with said jerk and hope they can change him, or the women who lust for the bad boys thinking that they can tame one into a loyal boyfriend. I realized these women are of little to no value for me...not even for sex.

 

You have to ask yourself that when you're seeking a girlfriend. Do you really want someone who needed you to put on a jerk act in order to get her? Do you want to lower yourself to have some woman? I know I don't. From that day on I decided that I would rather be alone and sexless the rest of my life than to lower myself to get a girl. Taking on one of those women would be SETTLING FOR LESS in my book, and you need to realize that about the women in your life.

 

Let's face it, I'm 35 now and met an amazing woman who isn't into bad men. She doesn't tolerate men treating her badly, and appreciates it that I am a gentleman to her. She's not spoiled or entitled, and doesn't take me for granted. She's a good girl...a nice girl.

 

It's funny how many flakes from my past who rejected me for bad men now regret it. It's sad how they need to see me with a pretty and classy woman in order to see value in me as a potential mate.

 

Even more scary to them was my attitude before I met my GF. I carried the mentality that I would not lower myself and gladly accept being alone in life before I settle for a flake who didn't want me in the first place because I wasn't "exciting" enough. A lot of these females realized I wouldn't be their backup plan in life, their last resort. Many of them are now in their 30s and freaking out that there won't be a white picket fence dream for them...as the men they would chase for a long time now are chasing younger women, and their biological clocks are ticking hard.

 

Constant, you should get mad right now, vent, get the breakup out of your system, heal your wounds, and then take on the same attitude I carry. MY GF could dump me tomorrow and I won't change. I'll be a good man to women, but I won't settle for soemone who needs a man to be "bad" to her. I will see those women as nonexistent.

 

Picture in your mind a woman you find physically repulsive and would never approach. Then take every woman who would reject you for "bad men" and imagine they look like that. Things will be a lot clearer and you won't find the bad boy chasers to be attractive, but more chuckle at every time they keep fooling themselves into thinking said bad man will change for them.

[Constant]

I'm not going to pretend that I am the nicest guy around, sometimes I can be as Tony T says a butthole and I was to my girlfriend, but I always tried to make up for it. No one is purely nice, we all have our bad moments, so I'm not painting a picture of innocence and I haven't intended to do so. I do the right thing by letting someone go who is stressed out and constantly in tears because of a lot of personal problems relating to the divorce of her parents, the lose of her home as a result, the fact she is over a hundred miles from friends and family etc. Some who I really care about and I am falling for and I am punished for following my unselfish head instead of my selfish heart. What's the point in doing the right thing, making sacrafices for someone who's happiness you put forth your own, if all you do is get left in the wind. I was hoping we'd get back together at somepoint, because she says she was happy in the relationship. Now, she is saying, I will find someone else who will make me very happy. Therefore lying to me and spinning me rubbish. So much for caring for me etc.

[Vertex]

That was a nice post, D-Jam Thank you for that.

[Constant]

Yeah it was, a very nice post. However, why is it my friend who sleeps around and doesn't feel anything for girls, is happy and doesn't suffer from all the pain that I do? His life seems so much happier, not to mention more excitement (well his "love" life). I'm not a fan of ONS or casual sex that has no meaning, but I can adjust and change, if I must.

[betterthandead]

I disagree with the notion of nice guy or jerk. I do believe in personality conflicts and differences. Typically if a girl finds that your personality doesn't mesh well with hers it won't work out.

 

Women do want nice guys, I mean as a guy would I want to hang around someone who was unpredictable, tattoos, drugs-drinking all over, slutty? alright yeah those qualities are nice for a one-night stand but I'm looking for something serious and women who are looking for someone serious will find a nice guy who is friendly and respectful not desperate or needy.

 

And here's the thing about relationships. It's all about her. No matter what Dating gurus tell you that you should be the master or alpha, it's all about her. If it wasn't about her, we wouldn't need dating gurus telling us to behave in a fashionable that is unnatural to our own essence.

[Vertex]

People who enjoy one night stands will obviously be happy with them because they're relatively easy to get, and don't require any emotional investment. If you honestly don't find that kind of lifestyle to be more suitable, I don't think faking it will help much. I can tell you that if you're after something more intimate and meaningful, then having sex for the sake of sex just isn't going to be fulfilling. I can promise you that much.

[Magnatolia]

Dude, you said in one of your posts that you don't want to change for anyone, yet you're willing to change your entire attitude because some girl let you go.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a different reason why she said that? You broke up with her. Here's a possible reason:

 

1. She realised that you weren't happy in the relationship, and probably figures she's pushed you away, so she's effectively telling you to find someone better. Very simlilar to people on their deathbed who tell their partner to find someone else after they're gone.

 

Let's not forget the fact that you broke up with her because she was too much for you to handle. Not exactly supportive.

[Constant]

Dude, you said in one of your posts that you don't want to change for anyone, yet you're willing to change your entire attitude because some girl let you go.

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a different reason why she said that? You broke up with her. Here's a possible reason:

 

1. She realised that you weren't happy in the relationship, and probably figures she's pushed you away, so she's effectively telling you to find someone better. Very simlilar to people on their deathbed who tell their partner to find someone else after they're gone.

 

Let's not forget the fact that you broke up with her because she was too much for you to handle. Not exactly supportive.

 

I was thinking about this today - I think you are right. I wasn't happy through a short period of the relationship, no, and I even told her that. I told her I was unhappy on about three occasions. I felt like she was pushing me away; I even told her this too. But I also wanted to stay with her and work through things, but when she broke down and wished she was dead, I felt that I had take some pressure off of her and by removing the LDR, I thought I was making things easier for her. I even offered my support for her and said no matter what time it is and when it is she can always ring me and we can talk or I'll go up to her Uni campus and comfort her.

 

I've accepted I have lost her and that's it, I shall enjoy the single life.

[D-Jam]

someone go who is stressed out and constantly in tears because of a lot of personal problems relating to the divorce of her parents, the lose of her home as a result, the fact she is over a hundred miles from friends and family etc.

Dude...it sounds like your ex was full of baggage. I see that a lot in the bad boy chasers. Seems like most of them came from divorced parents, abusive elders, or apathetic parents. I had one who would get drunk many nights a week and cry herself to sleep. I should have left the first time I saw her fall apart. She also slept with over 40 men in her life and a few women. She was suffering from low self-esteem and thus saw sex as a temporary fix to make her feel desired.

 

Constant, I had to learn and you need to realize it's ok to dump a girl when you see she's got massive baggage. I'm not talking about a little insecurity or issues from something, but when she's a psychological mess from baggage, then it's better to walk then to think you can "help her". Do that from now on. You meet a girl who's falling apart all the time, leave...don't sit there thinking you can help her or "save her". It doesn't matter if she wants bad men or not, it just shows that a RL with her would be a drama-filled mess.

 

However, why is it my friend who sleeps around and doesn't feel anything for girls, is happy and doesn't suffer from all the pain that I do? His life seems so much happier, not to mention more excitement (well his "love" life).

From what I've seen of most "playas" or "gigalos", they are in the lifestyle they're in most of the time because some girl in their past that they decided to love ended up breaking their heart. Their need to bang every hot woman they see as sort of a self-validation. A need also to feel like they are "the man".

 

Your friend is happy on the outside, but there is a good chance he's scared and unhappy on the inside. Believe me, I've heard enough guys like this moan and complain how "every girl I meet is some messed up psycho slut" and how they supposedly can't find a quality woman for a RL...when they are mostly hoping they can find a nice girl who comes packaged as the slut.

 

If you're just wanting sex, then it's easy to be content since you've sworn off love. However, you come off to me as someone like me...you want the love, RL, commitment, and GF. Don't settle for less and certainly don't sit there thinking the playas are living the good life.

 

Imagine if you woke up with regular sex in your life, but you think about how every woman you know is "messed up" in some way and thus none worthy of a RL. Doesn't sound like a good life does it?

[joshaz]

Clearly you're bitter, and that's a normal reaction in your situation, I'd say -- but your words show unhealthy unrest and volatility (also, games tend to be poor forms of communication). The point of "self-improvement" is not to change who you are as a person, but to regain your self-confidence, and heal after a failed relationship. The point is to take who you are and improve upon yourself -- to make your strong points shine brighter. The point of the process is to help you move on from heartbreak and control damage in the best way possible.

 

Actually the point of "self-improvement" is to sell lots of junk to desperate people.

 

I myself have done my part keeping these people bathing in cash.

[Constant]

You type a lot of sense D-Jam. My ex girlfriend had baggage before she entered the relationship, I did not know much, if anything about it and before the Relationship became long distance, it was the perfect relationship. These problems have escalated since she went to University.

 

I was angry when I made this post, so I take back a lot of what I said, but it does seem as though I have no fortune with women. Grave misfortune, it's all too overwhelmingly idiotic and all to harrowing.

[Vertex]

Dude...it sounds like your ex was full of baggage. I see that a lot in the bad boy chasers. Seems like most of them came from divorced parents, abusive elders, or apathetic parents. I had one who would get drunk many nights a week and cry herself to sleep. I should have left the first time I saw her fall apart. She also slept with over 40 men in her life and a few women. She was suffering from low self-esteem and thus saw sex as a temporary fix to make her feel desired.

 

Constant, I had to learn and you need to realize it's ok to dump a girl when you see she's got massive baggage. I'm not talking about a little insecurity or issues from something, but when she's a psychological mess from baggage, then it's better to walk then to think you can "help her". Do that from now on. You meet a girl who's falling apart all the time, leave...don't sit there thinking you can help her or "save her". It doesn't matter if she wants bad men or not, it just shows that a RL with her would be a drama-filled mess.

 

 

This is extremely true. I just got out of a two-year relationship with one of these girls. My ex was an alcoholic who drank multiple times a week (and would get plastered even on Monday nights! We're college students... with *classes*! Jeez). Total bad-boy chaser... and yet, I am not a bad-boy. However, she kept trying to change me into one, and I found it to be really irritating.

 

She had divorced parents, bulimia, bipolar disorder, extremely low self-esteem, drug problems, smoking addictions... I honestly don't know what on *earth* I was thinking. However, to be fair, I didn't even become aware of many of these issues until after the relationship had gone on for a while. As a result, I spent a lot of time and energy trying to "save her." I tried to be there for her, help her with school, get her counseling... I really tried to help her. And yet, she did nothing but spit in my face for trying to keep someone I cared for afloat.

 

All she wanted was a bad boy who'd screw her brains out, and nothing more. It became an extremely lonely and empty relationship. Psychologically-impaired party girls like these are just not long-term material. What D-Jam said is absolutely true. There's just too much drama. These few years were easily the worst of my life because I pissed it all away trying to make things work with someone who just wanted to fight me the whole way through. This girl's baggage, coupled with her inherent dishonesty and selfishness, made for a very bad relationship.

 

It's been an extremely rude awakening for me, but now that I'm single, I can more clearly see how incredibly foolish I've been. I absolutely can't believe how stupid I was to not see things more clearly. Sometimes you need to know when to call it quits. There are so many women out there who simply won't come packaged with so many issues -- why settle?

[Constant]

My girlfriend's problems aren't severe though, she hasn't got mental health issues, she hasn't done drugs or gets wasted frequently and I didn't feel as though I was settling with her. She is all I have ever wanted in someone and I can't believe I've lost her for good. It's funny, I look at other girls and I don't feel nothing for them, no attraction - nothing. Why? Because they aren't the girl I want to be with. I know it is selfish, but I liked my girlfriend not just for who she is, but for what I was when I was with her. I loved holding her hand, kissing her, cuddling with her, watching her smile and laugh and I loved the way she scrunched up her nose. I'd do anything to have her back with me.

[D-Jam]

You type a lot of sense D-Jam. My ex girlfriend had baggage before she entered the relationship, I did not know much, if anything about it and before the Relationship became long distance, it was the perfect relationship. These problems have escalated since she went to University.

 

I was angry when I made this post, so I take back a lot of what I said, but it does seem as though I have no fortune with women. Grave misfortune, it's all too overwhelmingly idiotic and all to harrowing.

Many men need to realize that "having the girl" isn't enough in "what do I get out of this?"

 

I'm not trying to make RLs out to be some kind of "exchange", but more illustrate that it's ok for a man or a woman who is giving a lot to the RL to demand back. Demand your mate isn't a headcase and/or they deal with their problems. Demand that they respect you and give to you as much as you give to them.

 

That or dump them. Biggest mistake many "nice guys" and "nice girls" make is that they do all the giving, no taking, and they never demand anything out of the people they are with...feeling like they got lucky and avoided singledom and thus shouldn't ask for more.

[Vertex]

Why did you guys break up?

[Constant]

Many men need to realize that "having the girl" isn't enough in "what do I get out of this?"

 

I'm not trying to make RLs out to be some kind of "exchange", but more illustrate that it's ok for a man or a woman who is giving a lot to the RL to demand back. Demand your mate isn't a headcase and/or they deal with their problems. Demand that they respect you and give to you as much as you give to them.

 

That or dump them. Biggest mistake many "nice guys" and "nice girls" make is that they do all the giving, no taking, and they never demand anything out of the people they are with...feeling like they got lucky and avoided singledom and thus shouldn't ask for more.

 

I'm hearing you, D-Jam. Where did you get these pearls of wisdom from? The corner of a cereal box? I know none of this, I'm too naive and in the clouds. Much to my embarrassment.

 

I got a lot out of the relationship - I felt wanted, I felt a connection, I felt a spark, chemistry, I felt a live. I had a spring in my step that I didn't have for a long, long time. Okay, I wished she was more affectionate, she had her moments and I wished she communicated more and was more open. And we argued over this several times - but I still felt special and wanted.

 

I do not demand from people, who am I to demand? I'm no one special-just a "normal" man. I did feel like I got lucky when I got with her, the girl I wanted for months wanted me too. It was overwhelming and I have no problem being single - but I do have a problem letting the girl I want to be with go and subsequently losing her forever.