To the MM/MW's....or whoever....what keeps you married?

[KismetGirl]

I have to wonder, sometimes.

 

Everyone has a different opinion on this, but I wonder, is it really about the kids? Or money? Or selling the house? Or loss of stability? What is it?

 

I feel like this is a topic that is often brought up as a reason that people stay married or don't want to get divorced, and there's many ways of looking at it, particularly with respect to the kids, esepcially when they are very young.

 

In an instance in which the husband and wife truly can't stand each other and fight all the time, yes, I think in this case it's easy to say that getting a divorce and having seperate-but-happy parents is better for the kids overall.

 

but what happens when mom and dad dont HATE each other? What if they get along, for the most part, like good friends, but thats it? As in, they dont necessarily fight in front of the kids all the time and are otherwise friendly, but just not affectionate like a husband and wife should be? As in, secretly, one spouse feels they'd be romantically happier with someone else, but they stick in the marriage "for the kids"? As a MM poster on another thread stated "I care about my wife, but not as a husband should care about a woman". Is it better to stay married in this case, rather than giving yourself a chance at true love?

 

i think this second situation is more often the case than the cut-and-dried situation where two people just can't stand each other or don't love each other at all anymore. Which I think makes it alot harder to just up and leave the marriage.

 

I remember when my parents were married and getting along (the divorced when I was about 12, after a few years of lots of fighting), and I love the memories of the family vacations and singing in the car together while driving to Canada, and these memories make me feel guilty when I think about my MM's kids, and are a big reason I don't tell him how I feel about him, because I feel like they should have that chance to have memories of Christmas morning, of family get togethers and vacations when they are little. So I keep most of the misery in my A onto myself. Admittedly, i dont think much about his BS, maybe because she's an adult , but its mostly the family unit I feel guilt about. And then at the same time, I get so upset wondering if me and MM could have had a truly happy R ourselves.

 

It's very conflicting, and to me, it seems that children are the number one reason people stay together in a relationship that otherwise would have fizzled had they never had kids. Finances seem to be the second reason.

 

What does everyone think?

[LavendarGirl]

Well, I was a MW for a while, though separated and STBD. I stayed in a very unhappy marriage for way too long. Only the first two years would I say was for the kids. Then a sense of pride and probably insecurity kept me in there through the middle part of things. And finally towards the end, I tried to find in myself a way to accept that I was married to a best friend but otherwise in a celebate relationship. Then one day I woke up and had a V-8 moment and said enough is enough. I should have had that moment years prior. Finances were always a concern, but not enough to solely keep me in my marriage.

 

Funny, I was so afraid of losing my best friend. But when my STBExH moved out and I hadn't seen him for a month or so (aside from him picking up our DD), I realized I really didn't miss him after all. He had become more of a habit than a true friend all those years. So detatching from him was by far easier than I had dreaded.

[LucreziaBorgia]

H and I were separated for three years and each had other people in our lives. Then, something terrible happened and he and I realized that when you strip away the romance, sex and roses, it is what is underneath that, that you count on. Anyone can fall in love, have great sex, and have a grand romance - but who is really going to be there for you when things really go wrong? When you lose your job and nearly all your income? When you get struck with cancer and are basically disabled for most of a year? When your kid gets seriously ill and you need someone who is family to rely on - not just your lover?

 

Who have you grown with emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally? Who was there at the beginning? Who helped you create your children? Who would be there for you when your lover spurns you?

 

H and I decided to stay married for these reasons and more. OW and OM let us down in ways that we wouldn't even consider letting each other down. Love, sex, and romance only take you so far - and with all that stuff comes jealousy, pettiness, temper, anger, etc. Passion in general.

 

Say what you will about a marriage without that passion (negative or positive), but I can tell you this: passion is the thread which breaks in comparison to the family ropes that hold fast.

 

A lot of MM/MW simply won't leave because they know deep down that they would be giving up a secure thing for something a little less secure - something unknown. An OW and OM can say "I will love you forever, and be in love with you, and show you the greatest sex you have ever known" but MM/MW will be thinking deep down: what if I sh*t myself, am covered with vomit, and need help getting to the bathroom? What if I become senile? What if I become sexually dysfunctional? What if I slip and cheat again? Will you still be with me then? I KNOW H or W will, but OW/OM? Not so sure.

 

OW/OM provides the heights of perceived 'good', but its the uncertainty of how they would handle the lows of perceived 'bad' that keeps them married a lot of the time.

[jj33]

but who is really going to be there for you when things really go wrong?

 

OW/OM provides the heights of perceived 'good', but its the uncertainty of how they would handle the lows of perceived 'bad' that keeps them married a lot of the time.

 

I guess that is what amazed me about my situation. I WAS there for some of those lows while we were together and more recently in the past year after we had ended the A. His W was not interested enough to care. And yet he stays.

[Dominique]

H and I were separated for three years and each had other people in our lives. Then, something terrible happened and he and I realized that when you strip away the romance, sex and roses, it is what is underneath that, that you count on. Anyone can fall in love, have great sex, and have a grand romance - but who is really going to be there for you when things really go wrong? When you lose your job and nearly all your income? When you get struck with cancer and are basically disabled for most of a year? When your kid gets seriously ill and you need someone who is family to rely on - not just your lover?

 

Who have you grown with emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally? Who was there at the beginning? Who helped you create your children? Who would be there for you when your lover spurns you?

 

H and I decided to stay married for these reasons and more. OW and OM let us down in ways that we wouldn't even consider letting each other down. Love, sex, and romance only take you so far - and with all that stuff comes jealousy, pettiness, temper, anger, etc. Passion in general.

 

Say what you will about a marriage without that passion (negative or positive), but I can tell you this: passion is the thread which breaks in comparison to the family ropes that hold fast.

 

A lot of MM/MW simply won't leave because they know deep down that they would be giving up a secure thing for something a little less secure - something unknown. An OW and OM can say "I will love you forever, and be in love with you, and show you the greatest sex you have ever known" but MM/MW will be thinking deep down: what if I sh*t myself, am covered with vomit, and need help getting to the bathroom? What if I become senile? What if I become sexually dysfunctional? What if I slip and cheat again? Will you still be with me then? I KNOW H or W will, but OW/OM? Not so sure.

 

OW/OM provides the heights of perceived 'good', but its the uncertainty of how they would handle the lows of perceived 'bad' that keeps them married a lot of the time.

 

 

Well, now come on...It is not necessarily so one or the other is it? There are marriages where there is love, sex and passion AND the partners are there for each in the sickness and the health. I do not agree that the passion thread "breaks" and the family thread is the only one that holds. Humans need passion, "family" can get tiresome or overwhelming when there is just responsibiilty and no sexual energy between the spouses.

 

As for OW and OM, it seems to me that often times the emotional and spiritual growth for people in very bad marriages can often come from meeting someone new--albeit at the wrong time or in the wrong circumstances. I do not get the feeling reading these stories that all OW or OM are necessarily just fly-by-night lovers--often they are much more.

 

DOM

[jj33]

No Dom it doesnt have to be one or the other. But you are talking about what is possible. KG is asking and LB is answering what the thought process is that applies to situations where someone is unhappy but not miserable and in an A.

 

I stuck with MM through some real lows. His W did not engage or participate in any real way. But he still has far more history etc as LB was saying with his wife and his extended family.

[Can'tGiveUp]

Many things keep people in a M. My situation was somewhat like LavendarGirl's. I stayed too long, but not as long as I planned to based on my kids' ages. I too had a V-8 moment and it just ended in an instant. Or at least it might have seemed that way to my xH. We had done counselling a year or so earlier and I had a moment of clarity that suddenly we were back where we started and nothing had changed.

 

Though, after that moment, I took a couple of days to make sure I could financially cope before pulling the plug.

 

My MM seems to lack the balls to face his family as the person who ends the M. That would be the pride aspect and fear of looking like a failure. He believes BW will do it for him as their M is definitely not a happy one. I will not wait for that to happen because these situations can drag out for years.

 

Even after you, as a couple decide the M is over, there becomes the point where you have to actually move forward with the decision. Tell people and make plans. Oh, but wait, lets get through this holiday first. And then there is someone's birthday...then Easter...then school is ending for the summer so we don't want to mess with the end of the kids' school year...well we always go camping in the summer - so one more trip for the kids'...and that can go on and on...

 

If the environment of the M is not outwardly hostile, it can become easier to just stay. I don't believe that it is always the best for everyone, but I can see how it happens.

 

LB also makes a great point with the fear of security and who would be there when you really need them. In my case - even when not seeing MM - I can count on MM for more support than xH would ever provide. Although I haven't had the earth shattering experiences that she has, the health issues that I have had while with either man, well MM was there for me after surgery and xH was never present.

 

Each person has their different motivators for staying. It may be financial, religious, family and history, security and stability and some just still love BW and don't want to leave.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Well, now come on...It is not necessarily so one or the other is it?

 

Nope. Different points on a grey continuum I guess.

[phoenixrising]

I agree with LB in some of what she says - when the rubber hits the road in a crisis you need to know the other person is there for you. I realized where xMM's priorities were when I went through a health crisis... and he suddenly decided this was the time to give his marriage a chance. It isn't so much family, then, is it - but what you are truly willing to do for the people you love. Or, in my case, what he wasn't willing to risk to support the woman he 'professed' to love (me). Interestingly, he then had a health crisis a year later and came back to me, indicating he had decided to follow his heart. Of course, naive that I was, I took him back with open arms - only to be told another year later that he wanted BOTH his marriage and me, because his wife 'would really be hurt to find that we had been together so long'. What a bunch of b_ _ _ _ _ _ t.

[RobertLS]

Kids definitely played a big part when I was first in conflict over leaving my W for the OW. My parents divorced when I was a teenager and it was devastating to me and my siblings. I didn't want to see my kids have to face the same thing. Another was that the OW didn't want me to leave for her. She wanted me to work on my marriage and make sure I was leaving because I didn't want to stay married, not because I had met her. She was smart for doing that. A couple of months ago, if she had asked me to leave, I probably would have, but I would've born tremendous guilt. She somehow knew that. Lately though, what's keeping me in my marriage is my W's undying commitment to work things out. I told her that since getting married was a mutual decision, getting divorced should also be a mutual decision. She was glad to hear that and said, "Good, now you're stuck with me!!"

 

Also, agree with a lot of what LB said.

[White Flower]

OW/OM provides the heights of perceived 'good', but its the uncertainty of how they would handle the lows of perceived 'bad' that keeps them married a lot of the time.

As always an excellent post, LB.

 

My only problem with it was that the ties of my M did not bind. You know what kind of year I had and my STBXH (now moved out BTW) did not bring me one glass of water through any of it, was not 'there' during my father's illness and following death and the list goes on. If I had half of what you rediscovered with your H I would have never given exMM a second look.

 

The basic truths of your post are definitely things to ponder when deciding to choose one over the other. I'm sure most, if they have what you now have, would choose the spouse over the OP.

 

I wish you and your H continuing happiness after the year you survived.

[White Flower]

Even adult kids can play a role in the decision to leave for the OM/OW. My exMM admitted to being a coward in that regard. One of his adult kids threatened to cut him out of his life and exMM bought that sh*t.

 

My dad left for the OW. I was angry and ignored him for a while. I know that there aren't a lot of MM reading this but even if one is I would like him to know: YOUR CHILDREN NEED YOU MORE THAN YOU NEED THEM!!! They will forgive you and come around because life without your father in it sucks. We shared many wonderful years together once I realized he did what he needed to do and that it was none of my business. Guess who took care of her dying father? ME. The one who wouldn't forgive him for leaving her mother. Well, I finally forgave and overcame the whole thing.

 

MM, please get over yourselves.

[jj33]

Excellent post Whiteflower. MM had the same issue with his adult kids. OK for them to live their lives however they please (and oh dont they and very publicly at that...) but they get irate at the idea that their parents may want to live theirs.

 

I dont believe it. Maybe for a few months but in time youd think they would grow up and get over it. I think its a very convenient excuse when the OP doesnt want to shake up the status quo or has other reasons for not wanting to leave.

 

Children are always children in their parents eyes no matter how old they are and what can you say? Its always a good excuse if they want it to be. First its the children then its the grandchildren... theres always some plausible excuse if you just dont want to leave.

[invman]

Hello all, it's been forever since I've posted here, but I thought I'd chime in. Life an marriage have taken interesting turns for me, so the empathetic company is needed.

 

For me, while I wish I could be apart from my wife, I stay with her for several reasons. First off, our daughter. She's five and incredibly precious. She adores me and I her. She's incredibly intelligent and strong, and if any kid could handle their parents separating, she could, but I hate to shatter her inocence. Her world is her mom and dad - together. That's how she understands life and family.

 

Second, my W, while we have severe differences, is still a friend to me and the mother of my child. I would hate to have no relationship with her. At the same time, I don't want a romantic one anymore.

 

Third, my W, after seven years of showing no interest in working on the marriage, is finally willing to go back to counseling. How do I say no to that - even if I'm not all that interested anymore - when that's what I've been wanting for years now?

 

Fourth, I committed to providing for her. I know, I know, it's old school. But right now she's a stay at home mom and depends on me. I feel a responsibility to her. Even if we did divorce, I would not feel comfortable paying only child support. I would want to still support her, at least for awhile, until she could become stable financially.

 

Fifth, money. I just don't have enough to pay for two apartments. My wife doesn't work. If she started working this year, it would disrupt my daughters life. My W could move in with her parents, but I know she wouldn't like that. Plus, I don't think she'd leave. She'd want me to go.

 

Sixth, I'm not sure there's a future for me and the OW - though I would love to have one. She's engaged currently. After our first night together, she said she still wanted to get married to her fiance. Since then, we didn't cut off our relationship and we've become very involved emotionally. I tried cutting off our romantic relationship last week knowing how much it would hurt to give her up in a few months. She said she's been very confused. I wish I would have listened. Maybe she was hinting that there could have been a chance for us.

 

So, that's why I stay. I'm not proud of who I've become, but alas, such is life and the circumstances we're given.

[KismetGirl]

Hello all, it's been forever since I've posted here, but I thought I'd chime in. Life an marriage have taken interesting turns for me, so the empathetic company is needed.

 

For me, while I wish I could be apart from my wife, I stay with her for several reasons. First off, our daughter. She's five and incredibly precious. She adores me and I her. She's incredibly intelligent and strong, and if any kid could handle their parents separating, she could, but I hate to shatter her inocence. Her world is her mom and dad - together. That's how she understands life and family.

 

Second, my W, while we have severe differences, is still a friend to me and the mother of my child. I would hate to have no relationship with her. At the same time, I don't want a romantic one anymore.

 

Third, my W, after seven years of showing no interest in working on the marriage, is finally willing to go back to counseling. How do I say no to that - even if I'm not all that interested anymore - when that's what I've been wanting for years now?

 

Fourth, I committed to providing for her. I know, I know, it's old school. But right now she's a stay at home mom and depends on me. I feel a responsibility to her. Even if we did divorce, I would not feel comfortable paying only child support. I would want to still support her, at least for awhile, until she could become stable financially.

 

Fifth, money. I just don't have enough to pay for two apartments. My wife doesn't work. If she started working this year, it would disrupt my daughters life. My W could move in with her parents, but I know she wouldn't like that. Plus, I don't think she'd leave. She'd want me to go.

 

Sixth, I'm not sure there's a future for me and the OW - though I would love to have one. She's engaged currently. After our first night together, she said she still wanted to get married to her fiance. Since then, we didn't cut off our relationship and we've become very involved emotionally. I tried cutting off our romantic relationship last week knowing how much it would hurt to give her up in a few months. She said she's been very confused. I wish I would have listened. Maybe she was hinting that there could have been a chance for us.

 

So, that's why I stay. I'm not proud of who I've become, but alas, such is life and the circumstances we're given.

 

SO I guess that's just how it is in life, then. People will stay in unhappy marriages because its more convenient for everyone. I guess that's what I figured....giving it all up in the name of love never seemed like something done outside of the movies....guess it doesn't matter how MM feels about me then.....three small kids, a wife he does care about (if not romantically, but still, he does care about her), a house he works hard to maintain, comfortable family ties and relationships and friendships....

 

I guess it takes something really awful, a rally horrid spouse, to really want to leave them. otherwise yuo just go through the rest of your life with a "blah" feeling when it comes to your spouse.

 

I just wonder....once the kids are grown....and its just you and your wife forced to acknowledge each other instead of like when the kids were little and all the focus was on them all the time....won't it be depressing to think you might have missed out on being truly in love with someone?

 

I guess that's what I keep aspiring to....I've seen it before....my step father's parents for instance.....they were both married to their first spouses when they met, they had an affair that lasted for years, my step father was conceived during this affair, they didnt tell anyone who the real father was for years., that it was the lover and not her current spouse.....eventually they both divorced their spouses and married each other.....pissed off their kids, their families, you name it....but at the end of the day, when he was dying of cancer at the age of 82 it was she who was besides him. I remember meeting my step dad's parents when they were both alive and thinking, wow, here's a couple that are in their late 70's who just LOOK at each other like they still love each other with a passion I barely see in most couples my own age. Yes, intensity can ebb and flow, but passion is seperate from sexual lust. passion for someone, when its' real, doesn't die away, no matter how many diapers and fights and mundane daily activities you had to go throguh. At this man's funeral, I sat in this church watching everyone, and I never cried until I looked at his widow. The look on her face, and her face alone, was one that was incomparable to even the looks of sadness on his adult children's faces. It was when I looked at her that I saw someone who had just lost a piece of their own soul when that other person passed away. This couple, who had had an affair and caused so much upset, they loved each other until the day that man died. And their kids grew up fine, and normally adjusted, and everyone adjusted in the end.

 

I guess in the moment its hard to imagine that everything will work out. Maybe Im wrong for wanting to not settle for less than this type of passion for another human being, but I know it exists and I understand why people stay in marriages that are only lukewarm, because its easier to stay in comfort than to risk all that stability for an unkown, and maybe Im a hopeless romantic, but you only have one life, right? *sigh*

 

I guess Im just dreaming, again. Pardon the rambling, its too early....

[jj33]

There is also the uncertainty factor. We may think its true love but do we REALLY know what it would be like if they left and we were with them. No we dont.

 

It is the devil known versus the potential promise of the unknown.

 

Where someone feels it is really really true love and they really can see themself being happier - not just in a fantasy and I know if I left it would be great but taking into account all the factors the day to day etc etc.

 

They leave.

 

the "unknown" is what keeps them there too. There is a big what if factor to tearing apart your family and not knowing whether it would actually work even if you think it might.

 

I think we have to accept KG that if they really thought it was true love lasting and forever and they were sure of it, they would leave. But they arent. So they dont.

 

Its a lot easier to be a hopeless romantic when you are single with no family to support or obligations to other people. When you have a wife and kids depending on you being a hopeless romantic and taking the plunge for passion and true love is whole other story.

[Spinning Head]

My affair with xMM made me realize that I did not want to continue in my marraige and, ultimately, have my marriage turn into his marriage. I felt guilty for having the affair. It was not fair to my husband and he deserved to find happiness with someone. According to my xMM, he and his wife slept in separate rooms and there was no physical contact or discussions between them. I do know that when xMM and I traveled together, his wife never called. I do know that during the nine months of the affair, he and his wife never took trips together. In fact, xMM stated that the best thing about his wife was that she left him alone.

 

I did not want that type of marriage. My marriage was heading down that same path - sleeping in separate rooms, no physical contact, not doing things together, etc. In my opinion, it was better to end the marriage. And, my affair with xMM ended as well.

 

I think fear is the greatest motivating factor as to why unhappy spouses stay in unfulfilled marriages. But, change is a good thing and, although I do have difficult spells at times, I think separating from my husband was the right decision.

[frannie]

 

.. our daughter. She's five and incredibly precious. She adores me and I her. She's incredibly intelligent and strong, and if any kid could handle their parents separating, she could, but I hate to shatter her inocence.

 

Second, my W... I would hate to have no relationship with her. At the same time, I don't want a romantic one anymore.

 

... Fifth, money. I just don't have enough to pay for two apartments. My wife doesn't work. If she started working this year, it would disrupt my daughters life.

 

Sixth, I'm not sure there's a future for me and the OW.

 

 

Yep, I think you just about summed it up. Though its so frustrating to read this from the increasing numbers of MM who turn up on the board: You don't even want a romantic relationship with your W any longer, but you stay because it looks right from the point of view of the kid/s (amongst other things).

 

Only your very intelligent little daughter is going to grow up realising that things are not at all right between Mummy and Daddy. You do know that, don't you?

 

Sorry, not meaning to have a go at you. You've posted your heartfelt reasons and thought patterns. I actually feel sorry for all concerned in situations like this, because it's not easy.

 

Who would have thought there were so many men out there to whom life 'just happens'..? No one wants to be their OW, and if they knew the truth, the W wouldn't want to be a part of it either. And for what?

[jj33]

Lets face it staying for the children is just a cover in most cases for

 

1. I dont want to split the assets or couldnt afford to do what I feel I would need to do for my wife and kids and

 

2. I dont want to look like the bad guy and why should I if I can have both...

 

which leads me to my earlier conclusion when the marriage is dead and the MM thinks that his real destiny lies with the OW he leaves.

 

When they love the OW but are not certain she is the woman they should spend the rest of their life with, why leave? Its not a rational gamble to take.

[KismetGirl]

Lets face it staying for the children is just a cover in most cases for

 

1. I dont want to split the assets or couldnt afford to do what I feel I would need to do for my wife and kids and

 

2. I dont want to look like the bad guy and why should I if I can have both...

 

which leads me to my earlier conclusion when the marriage is dead and the MM thinks that his real destiny lies with the OW he leaves.

 

When they love the OW but are not certain she is the woman they should spend the rest of their life with, why leave? Its not a rational gamble to take.

 

 

Yeah but lets face it....in my personal experience, most men don't leave unless this living situation is just so horrible they can't stomach going home every day. Just being unhappy with your relationship isn't enough to make them want to change their whole lives. Usually , I think, if they leave the marriage its because the wife kicks them out or tells them they have that option. it seems to me that women are more likely to leave a situation where they aren't fully happy than men are. Even my own dad wouldn't leave until my mom told him that if he was cheating, then obviously he wasn't happy so she gave him her full blessing to get lost, so to speak.

 

In some ways I feel like my MM almost is like this. When I was talking to my friend the other day and saying I didn't understand why he keeps seeing me when he's so paranoid about getting caught, or why he would sleep with me without using condoms without asking me if i was even on any birth control, my friend said, "maybe he's subconsciously trying to sabotage his marriage because then his decision will be made for him." I don't know if that has any merit but its worth pondering.

 

No one wants to change something if its working in a weird way. Maybe he'll change his tune if I tell him to bugger off and not see him anymore, cause then he won't have his cake and eat it to, he'll just have cake he can't eat, or something. I dont know. He likes going home to his big house, he likes having a good mom for his kids, he likes being there morning and evening to put the kids on the bus, play with them on the weekends, and put them to bed at night. he also likes having a woman he can be affectionate with and all that stuff. He's getting both now, i guess, so no reason to change it all up. I am an unknown. He can't be sure he'd be happy with me just like I can't be positive I'd be happy with him, but that's the same as can be said for any relationship anywhere. Just usually, when you're dating single people, you don't have as much to risk. When you have a family and a life, it's alot to risk for a relationship with someone else. I get anxious at the thought of change, I can only imagine what i'd feel contemplating giving up my kids full time, if i had any, or my house, or my family relationships, or whatever.

 

Kids, money and stability might seem like a poor excuse to stay in a marriage with someone you aren't in love with, but that doesnt mean most people would give them up. It's a rare case that someone who has an otherwise happy life, especially when there's children, would just go and change everything to try all over again with someone new.

 

Sucks. That's life, though. My MM is very passive when it comes to his emotions. Dunno if it's a British man thing, as all the Brits Ive dated have been like this when it comes to expressing how they feel, but he's very very passive aggressive about emotional things. He'll change the topic, ignore things, anything to not talk about something that bothers him or makes him feel uncomfortable. He gets moments of clarity where he shares things with me, but if I try to push questions on him he retreats and clams up.

 

Maybe in the end it doesnt matter what the reason is, but I can't help but being curious. But it is alot easier to be a hopeless romantic when I don't have three babies crying for me at home, I guess.

[pkn06002]

I am the poster that KismetGirl mentioned in the first post of this thread. I will say interesting responses and there is one that particularly sounds like me ( invman).

 

I do feel from reading here and other places as well as talking to people there is a difference when it comes to men and woman for this topic. Woman do eventually pull the trigger where men will not. I think that comes down to the idea of obligation and the fact the men are expected to protect and support a family.

 

Maybe we just need the Middle ages way of marrying for power and wealth and having affairs for love.

[KismetGirl]

I am the poster that KismetGirl mentioned in the first post of this thread. I will say interesting responses and there is one that particularly sounds like me ( invman).

 

I do feel from reading here and other places as well as talking to people there is a difference when it comes to men and woman for this topic. Woman do eventually pull the trigger where men will not. I think that comes down to the idea of obligation and the fact the men are expected to protect and support a family.

 

Maybe we just need the Middle ages way of marrying for power and wealth and having affairs for love.

 

 

I notice this alot as well, which is why I mentioned it earlier. Why do you think that is? Purel;y out of a sense that they must remain the "protectors and providers"? I guess in a sense society views it differently, don't they. If a woman wants a divorce, and her reason are ultimately that she is not in love with her husband anymore, I feel that she gets alot less slack for it. If a man leaves what appears to be an otherwise stable family life, people quickly call him a deadbeat, a bad father, a horrible human being to "abandon" his family. I don't seem to see those types of things being attributed to women who want a divorce too often for the same reason. I wonder why that is.

 

It's funny, but my grandmother has reached that age where her memory wanes and her filter on what not to say to your granddaughter is slowly getting a bit weird so she says all sorts of things to me she didnt used to. Anyway, my point is, the other day she tells me (and it sounds much funnier in russian, in a weird way) that since she can't perform all her wifely duties any more in her old age, she told my grandfather he should find himself a lover. My grandfather stood there rolling his eyes and telling her to stop saying such things to their granddaughter, but she kept going on and on about how back in Russia he had many lovers, which was ok, because that's how its done there, and that people married for reasons that involved starting a family and that it was ok for the man to find sexual fullfillment elsewhere if he needed it. I just think its so odd how in some cultures, back in the day, it really just was this acceptable thing. Still is, in many parts of the world, I guess.

 

Nowadays we have this idealistic view of love when we talk about it, but I think when it comes down to it, alot of people get married just because they want that stability , without thinking "am i really in love with this person, or am I just really comfortable with them?" There is a fine line between loving/caring for someone, and being IN love with them. I guess infatuation and desire can cloud judgment, but so can an intense desire to get stability so soon that you forgo the possibility that passion and comfort can be found in the same person.

 

Every marriage, every relationship, has ups and downs, and problems, and frustrations, and stresses, and all family's will go through mounds of laundry and dirty diapers and screaming children, and at the end of the day, that's no excuse to forgo your relationship with your spouse. I think people use the excuse of all I just mentioned above as merely an excuse for why they don't feel passionate about their spouses. That "this is just how it is" , and they convince themselves this feeling (or lack thereof) is normal once you get married and that is such BS. There are always at least 20 minutes in the day before you go to bed, even if you have kids, to kiss your wife and tell her you love her, to cuddle for two minutes before falling asleep, even if you're going to get woken up in another hour by a screaming infant.

 

If people let their marriages fall apart, its because they dont want to try. If the passion completely leaves, I think its because it was never there to begin with. It can fade, it can seem distant, you can feel like you want to murder your spouse because they've pissed you off, they didnt pick the kids up on time, they didnt wash the dishes, they did this, they did that, but if you really love someone, how hard is it to REALLY keep that spark there?

 

Stability seems to be a sad reason for staying with someone you aren't in love with. It is a viable reason, and a logical one in many ways, but a sad reason nonetheless. And maybe that's why Im always single, and always reject people if I don't feel that spark in the beginning, becase i dont want to end up like that. I dont know. Hopeless romantic in me speaks again, I guess....

[jj33]

PKN that is exactly what people are doing. Staying in a marriage for the institution (or nicer reasons) and having affairs for love or whatever on the side. It is an age old concept.

 

But I do think we are fooling ourselves. I still think stability does not keep someone from pursuing what they beleive their true destiny to be.

 

I think there is a disconnect between what many OW tell themselves and what the MM really believes in his heart, regardless of his words.

[2sure]

I'm a little surprised that no one yet has posted the reply I think is obvious. Marriages go through many ups and downs, over the years they can reinvent themselves , years of one stage, then another. Just like any one person's lifetime. The marriage is an entity of its own, experience, tragedy, good times, come and go - evolving.

I think many affairs start during a low. A mature partner that does not wish to leave the marriage may give reasons like the kids, finances, etc. Or that they dont have romantic or physical feelings for their spouse - OR some other reason they are not happy that they cannot quite put their finger on. But they know that this maybe , just possibly, is a temporary thing. They would like and prefer to be happy with the marriage.

[pkn06002]

I'm a little surprised that no one yet has posted the reply I think is obvious. Marriages go through many ups and downs, over the years they can reinvent themselves , years of one stage, then another. Just like any one person's lifetime. The marriage is an entity of its own, experience, tragedy, good times, come and go - evolving.

I think many affairs start during a low. A mature partner that does not wish to leave the marriage may give reasons like the kids, finances, etc. Or that they dont have romantic or physical feelings for their spouse - OR some other reason they are not happy that they cannot quite put their finger on. But they know that this maybe , just possibly, is a temporary thing. They would like and prefer to be happy with the marriage.

 

Maybe you are on to something here. Because of the emotional and financial burdens of a marriage are better if can work it out as opposed to ending it.

 

So the simple idea of "hope" and that it will just get better?

 

One lady I work with would agree with you. She did not get divorced until the pain of staying was more then the hope that it would get better.