Decision Time

[Magicman2008]

I am new and have found good insight on the LS posts. I need help and feel many may be able to relate to my situation. Sorry for the length.

 

After dating my wife for two years I was ready to move on.. felt she wasnt right for me. Then we got pregnant. Now been married 11 years. 2 girls 7 and 10. Wanted to be responsible and felt she was a good woman... and she is.

 

It was extremely difficult within our first year on. Life was a huge burden on her and I did everything to make her feel otherwise. I provided a home, financial stability, trips, attention and helped with the kids whenever I could. What I got back was... your not doing enough, you treat your family (my sister and parents) better than me, sex when she felt I really needed it which was when I was so fustrated it was delivered to me to avoid arguements, everything in a normal daily grind was a mountain of complications and in our ninth year of marriage I am told that she is tired of being my 'employee' ???? That hurt deeply.

 

I only saw her as my wife and friend. I only wanted to be with her and love her. She was very much an individual and I was a partner raising our kids. I stayed because I loved her and I truly believed time would bring change and it didn't. I then stayed because of the children. I wrote a letter to communicate my feelings. I spoke with her telling my fustrations. My opinion was never considered rather I got look at things 'this way' (her way).

Have been to 3 counselors together over the years with little change/result and I am just now seeing one alone.

 

The result of all this was that I cheated on her with 5 different woman over the 11 years. I needed fulfillment and I found it in sex that I was lacking in my home when I really wanted love and intimacy from my wife. The last woman I had an affair with I bonded very emotionally and that caught me off guard. It was very emotional, intimate, passionate, mature and full of life and laughter.

This affair ended cause out of respect we felt she should not be the woman on the side with these heavy feelings and my being married(not easy). This was a month ago. I feel nothing for my wife now. The hope I had before is gone. I am bitter and upset because a woman that new me 11 months has given me more than a woman that I have been married to for 11 years!

I wrote my wife a clear letter summing up our 11 years and told her I wanted a divorce. She did the bigest 180 degree turn around and is so nice and relaxed. I know she would do anything for me now. But I feel like its no longer genuine. I feel like she is just doing it out of fear of my leaving. Why not change when I spoke or wrote a letter in the past? Why only am I taken seriously when I tell her I am leaving?

 

I now want to leave and go back to the woman I had an affair with and share love and intimacy and build a new relationship. I feel burnt out in this marriage and feel any intimacy shared with my wife at this point will fall short on my expectations. I fear if I stay I will regret looking back in 10 more years and knowing I should have left. I am prepared to accept regret if I look back and feel I should have stayed cause everything tells me to go, that I gave it every fair and realistic chance and now its just too late to get me to stay.

 

Am I wrong for thinking this way after all this?

 

This is where I am at and would appreciate insight. Trying to make a decision I feel I have avoided for a long time!

 

Thank-you all!!! Its good to know we are not alone in here.

[imagine]

Firstly, please note that only 1% of affair marriages endure past the five year mark. Think about this in case you had ideas of permanency with the OW.

 

Fix the problem. How do we do that? Beyond counseling there is "His needs/ Her Needs" and "Fall in love, stay in love" by Dr Harley. Yeah, yeah, I know its a schlep but do it anyway.

 

Right now, your mind is set on the OW. But - think about it, both of you are cheaters... is this a basis for a permanent relationship. You do the math.

 

What your marriage needs is what you have with OW. I have heard of positive results from the Marriage builder weekends (Google it). But if you have already decided in your mind to stay with OW, it WON'T work.

[sadintexas]

The problem I have with it is that you expressed your feelings to your wife earlier in an effort to save your marriage. She didn't listen. She disregarded your feelings. She didn't take action...until now. I too would have trouble believing her change is a permanent one, and one based out of love and respect for you and a true desire to have a happy and fulfilling marriage with you. To me, her change is brought by fear. If that's the case, my concern would be her falling back to her old ways once she reaches a certain level of comfort with your committment again.

 

If you do decide to leave your wife, it has to be because it what's best for you. It's true that there is passion and connection in your affair that may or may not last. Things may not work out with OW. The question is, would you still want to leave your marriage even if you weren't considering a person outside of the marriage? Has your affair brought about enough clarity of what you want and need that is not being fulfilled in your marriage to make the jump of walking away?

 

There are different types of cheaters. Except for serial cheaters, those who just get the thrill from it and continue to seek that high, I believe that affairs happen because of a lack in the marriage. It's not the right way of addressing the issue, but it has happened so now we have to say, where do we go from here? Your challenge is determining what you got from the affair and can you get that from your marriage in a genuine and lasting way? What can YOU do to bring that change about, and what does your wife have to do to bring that about? Have you already taken the steps you can to bring about that change? Have you effectively communicated with your wife and KNOW that she understands what you have been asking for?

 

Those questions are the ones that no one but you can answer which is why it can be so hard for us to say "this is what you have to do". We read into your problem based on what you say, and based on our own real life experiences and draw conclusions and offer advice based on that. I think if you are truly introspective and ask yourself the hard questions and are honest with yourself about the answers, you will know what you need to do.

 

Regardless of what advice you might get, what you need to do might not be the same as what someone else needs to do. There are two very opposite sides to the coin here, and you will get opinions from both sides. You will hear that you must save your marriage and you will hear that you must seek happiness. The real issue is can you have both? Can you be happy in your marriage? You're the only one that can really answer that question.

[Mr. Lucky]

The result of all this was that I cheated on her with 5 different woman over the 11 years. I needed fulfillment and I found it in sex that I was lacking in my home when I really wanted love and intimacy from my wife. The last woman I had an affair with I bonded very emotionally and that caught me off guard. It was very emotional, intimate, passionate, mature and full of life and laughter.

This affair ended cause out of respect we felt she should not be the woman on the side with these heavy feelings and my being married(not easy).

Does that last statement mean that you should only have affairs with women that you don't have "heavy" feelimgs for ?

 

You can rationalize your actions and blame your wife until the cows come home, but the truth is this - the missing sexual, emotional and romantic energy that you put into these 5 affairs is the root cause of your marital distress. How could you possibly focus on the issues at home - for which your wife certainly has her share of blame - when you head lays on soneone elses pillow? While your wife certainly comes off as cold and calculating, I can only imagine the misplaced effort involved in getting away with cheating 5 times in a decade.

 

Look in the mirror, my friend. That's where your problem lies....

 

Mr. Lucky

[amaysngrace]

Did you mention the other woman in your detailed letter to your wife? Or the other four affairs that you've had?

 

I'm betting no or she wouldn't be so quick to do a complete turn-around.

 

Now you have her kindness and she's giving it to you without knowing the whole story. That's a little unfair, don't ya think?

 

I'm with Mr. Lucky. Look in the mirror and you'll see the main source of your problems.

[Magicman2008]

No.. wife has no knowledge of affairs. She asked me when I told her I wanted to leave but I told her I hadn't met anyone. 3 were one night stands and the latter two over the last two years more involved.

I agree not fair that she doesn't know and I do look at that and myself. Never thought I would be in that position in my marriage. I also ask.. If I left and went to the OW would I cheat on the OW with time? Is it me or is my partner? I am soul searching and trying to be realistic about it.. not one sided.

 

Affairs resulted after and during efforts to give my wife attention and affection. I would make advances with little response or when I was responded to I was made to feel like.. make it quick, I am doing this cause you need it and as soon as I was done she was immediately up and off to carry on the day. No laying around holding eachother in our arms caressing and talking... no closeness or intimacy.

I waited because I was told she was so busy taking care of our kids and the home and I respected that. Thats why I am still here 11 years later, I took the backseat per her request. THe kids are older now and not requireing the constant attention of her and I.

THis is why it is so hard for me. She is a good person and we function well as people raising two kids... but there has to be fulfillment in marriage for the LONG RUN to work. I am one to stay and ride things out but feel like I have done that year after year.

I am not surprised to see comments both ways and expected it.

 

I am gaining insight from both sides and viewpoints. Thank-you!

[carhill]

You sound like a path of least resistance guy to me. Some of my most laid back and relaxed friends are like that. I envy them

 

I think you know in your heart whether your love for your wife is dead. You know how it died one day at a time. You know how you felt when you were with those other women. Whether you felt guilt or not. Those are personal things. It's important that you acknowledge them to yourself.

 

You and your wife can be good parents and still treat each other honestly. If there is no love, end the marriage and co-parent as mature, healthy adults. Can you see where this is going?

 

If you were willing to be honest with your wife about your A's and attend MC to clarify your emotions and perspective, I'd say give that a shot, if only so you D for the right reasons. What do you say?

[pelicanpreacher]

You have issues with your wife that stem from the beginning of your relationship. You might not think she noticed your lack of true enthusiasm and devotion to her in the early going when she got pregnant which has caused her to resent you ever since. You say that she's expressed to you that she's upset that you place her second to your parents and siblings but what did you do to rectify that? She commented that she is tired of you treating her like an employee which hurt your feelings but what steps did you take to make her feel like an equal partner in your marriage? I'm betting that her needs and concerns have been dismissed throughout your relationship which has slowly eroded all romantic notions for you to the point that whenever she's pressured to extend an offer of intimacy all she can think is that she just wants it over with.

 

The problems in your marriage, in my opinion, stems from the fact that you are too selfish and self-centered to realize how detrimental your actions and behavior have been in their contribution to her feelings for you over time. Yes, she is treating you nicely now only because she is operating from a position of weakness due to her low self-esteem. Once she finds a way to restore herself and can assess you with the clarity of an individual operating from a position of strength don't be surprised if she's the one to leave you for a life of her own.

 

Come what may, continue on the path that you've chosen and you'll get your wish one way or another.

[BlueHarvest]

A tough quandrary to be in, that is for sure. My suggestion is to think to yourself a few things...

 

*Like others have said...You have cheated, OW has cheated. How far do you think a relationship will go with two people who have cheated in their spouses? On that note, how will you ever trust someone in a relationship that you KNOW cheats? Rather then enjoying the marriage you would either be EXTREMELY paranoid about her cheating on you, or you would be "stalkerish" and double check everything she did giving her no freedom in the relationship which would probably end it quicker then any affair could ever do.

 

*You got her pregnant before you were really in love with her, then married her. Is it responsible? Yes. Was it right? No. From the get-go you should have been honest and told her your feelings. Instead you took the "path of least resistance" and forced yourself into a marriage with no intial spark. It's like you took flame from a gas grill and used it to start a charcoal grill and you are now wondering why the steak tastes like gas. (Bad analogy but meh )

 

*You have NOT been honest, therefor you don't want to reconcile or fix your marraige. You haven't told her about the other women, you haven't been honest, therefore you aren't even trying to make it work. You have used the other woman as your emotional/sexual outlet rather then trying to get to know the woman you got pregnant.

 

Let this be a lesson to others, if your gonna have sex just for the sake of having sex with someone you don't love...at least have safe sex. No glove...no love.

[crober05]

I've been married to the same man for 23 years. I've been involved in an affair with another man for 17 of those years. I did stop the affair for a 3 year period, but kept periodic phone contact with my "other man". I married my husband when I was 18 and he 21. We have two kids that are both college age. I am crazy about the OM and want to be with him. I stayed married because I thought keeping my family together while the kids grew up was more important than my own "selfish needs".

 

My OM raised his family and his kids are young adults now too. He never lead me to believe that he would leave his wife for me and for the first 12 years we were both happy to have a casual relationship. I had strong feelings for him, but I'm ashamed to admit there were others during the same time as were with him. My husband knew of some and eventually found out about this OM.

 

When my husband would find out because I let him. He checked up on me and would accuse me and I denied everything. I finally just told him because I thought I was driving him crazy with the denials. We went to counseling for many years through my urging and I would try to talk to my husband and tell him the truth. I tried really hard to be faithful and for a total of 6 years I was. Big wow huh! The first 3 yrs of my marriage and then about 6 years ago for 3 years I was faithful. Each time I stopped I found myself sitting at home when I wasn't working, alone or with my youngest son.

 

My husband has a hobby that takes him to "hang out" with friends at least 3 afternoons and nights a week and then most weekends all night long. I involved myself for years in this hobby thinking that "our time" would finally come when the kids were grown. It never did because now he's involved my oldest son in the same hobby. If I don't join him then I sit at home or go entertain myself. Everyone thinks I'm a "b***h" and he's a great guy because I've shown my unhappiness in my marraige. They(my parents are the "they" and by the way my father engages in the same hobby) believe spending time in a hobby (even to the extreme degree that he is) is "legal" because as they say at least he's not out with another woman or drinking at a bar, but because I've had an affair I'm the one in the wrong.

 

My husband is a nice guy but I literally feel like I'm starving with him. We don't have any conversations of substance. He has his own friends because I've effectively separated myself from them. The really sad thing is that while my OM is home with his family and my husband is enjoying his hobby I sit home alone.

 

My OM and I take trips together, enjoy relaxing dinners and long lunches, discuss business, and really talk to each other, but its always on the sly. Our careers have afforded us the luxury of travel and we're able to be together weekly. I love him and he says he loves me, but we're still not together in the open. I've tried to stop the relationship but never am able to stay away from him very long. I've stopped seeing him in a physical way "again" and told him that if we can't be together and divorce our spouses then its over. I am heart broken and empty feeling. Now he wants to meet to make a "plan" for transition to finally be together. I'm scared that he's going to talk me into another year or two or three of waiting and then here I will be again.

 

I've tried everything with my husband including romantic trips, dinners, etc and he looks at me as though we're speaking foreign language to each other. I've tried to leave him and he begs me to stay. I've asked him to leave and he won't. I don't freakin understand how I've let myself get in a situation like this with both men much less staying in this mess for 23 years. A really weird thing now is my husband and the OM are back doing business together after 3 years of my husband swearing he would kill him. What the heck? The OM helped my husband out of a serious financial problem in his business after my husband called him for help. My husband has to know that I'm still involved with the OM, but he would swear he didn't know. I know this reply is all over the place, but thats my life.

 

I would never recommend this life to anyone. I am just hoping I have the courage to end this nonsense and start over. I think I've done too much damage to my marraige and I'm scared that the fantasy of happily ever after with the OM is a lie I'm telling myself. My gut tells me that I need to get away from both of them and learn to be happy with me.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you luck and minimal damage to the people surrounding you. I'm hoping for the same. I guess I'll know more about where I stand after meeting with my OM this coming weekend. Oh and one more thought. Staying together for the sake of the kids is probably the right thing to do and if you were able to ask a kid what they wanted - that would be it, but there is collateral damage to some kids when they grow up witnessing two parents living together in such a disrespectful way. My oldest son is damaged because he has a distorted view of how relationships should work. My youngest seems to be great. Just one more thing to think about.

[pelicanpreacher]

WOW! That deserved a thread of its own!

[Lonestar]

You have issues with your wife that stem from the beginning of your relationship. You might not think she noticed your lack of true enthusiasm and devotion to her in the early going when she got pregnant which has caused her to resent you ever since. You say that she's expressed to you that she's upset that you place her second to your parents and siblings but what did you do to rectify that? She commented that she is tired of you treating her like an employee which hurt your feelings but what steps did you take to make her feel like an equal partner in your marriage? I'm betting that her needs and concerns have been dismissed throughout your relationship which has slowly eroded all romantic notions for you to the point that whenever she's pressured to extend an offer of intimacy all she can think is that she just wants it over with.

 

The problems in your marriage, in my opinion, stems from the fact that you are too selfish and self-centered to realize how detrimental your actions and behavior have been in their contribution to her feelings for you over time. Yes, she is treating you nicely now only because she is operating from a position of weakness due to her low self-esteem. Once she finds a way to restore herself and can assess you with the clarity of an individual operating from a position of strength don't be surprised if she's the one to leave you for a life of her own.

 

 

I agree with pelican 100%. It seems to me that you ignored and invalidated her feelings throughout all this and now the only one you are concerned with is yourself. You are looking for reasons to justify your actions by blaming it all on her and portraying yourself as saint-like.

 

Cheating is a choice, not a mistake, not someone else's fault. Your marriage was over the day you screwed another woman, not because you have this "choice" to make now if you should leave her. You already made the choices when your dick got hard one day and you acted on it. Be a man now and tell your wife you cheated on her. Tell her how many women, how long, and all the details. She needs to be able to make an educated decision on what she should do now with her life and not a decision based on the mis-information that you have been faithful.

[busy.b]

CROBER05: Thank you so much for your response. I am in a 6 year marriage, but have been with my husband for 8 years, and I have already had relations with other men. I want to end my marriage because he doesn't deserve this, but we have two young children, and I simply don't know what to do. I've tried to end it before, before any serious "relations" happened, on the premise that we would take a few months away from each other to test the waters and see other people. We got back together after 2 months because he was so depressed and missed me desperately. I was enjoying myself, but couldn't stand to see him so hurt. I was faithful for 2 years until a recent trip away, and since I've had relations with a co-worker, whom I've known for a while and respect.

 

The point is, I don't want to end up in a 23 year marriage, wondering how life will be with another man. But I feel I simply cannot go anywhere, because of my boys. My oldest son is very sensitive, and the younger is very defensive of his father. I don't want either of them to have to grow up in a "broken" family. And also, because my husband is so in love with me, it hurts.

 

Magicman, I'm sorry I don't have any advice, but it seems as though there aren't any feelings of love on either end. My only concern is that you haven't said anything about your children and how they have been effected by the counseling, et al. Surely, they notice the tension between you and your wife?

[pelicanpreacher]

WOW WOW! And a 2nd post that needs its own thread!

[Mr. Lucky]

I stayed married because I thought keeping my family together while the kids grew up was more important than my own "selfish needs".

We got back together after 2 months because he was so depressed and missed me desperately. I was enjoying myself, but couldn't stand to see him so hurt.

I'm confused over the basic contradiction in these types of posts. "Keeping my family together...was more important than my own selfish needs". "I couldn't stand to see him so hurt".

 

So, to keep your family together and soothe your husband's pain, you decided to cheat on him and start a sexual and emotional relationship with another man - or men ???? How does that give you the peace or stability you seek?

 

Mr. Lucky

[davidm]

Your situation sounds so similar to my own, married out of duty to a person with whom there was little affinity trying to "do the right thing". I can understand why you cheated on your wife. Marriage is difficult even if based on a foundation of true love. Both parties have complicity in creating the situation. I would also recommend being totally honest with your wife. If the love is dead and you are unwilling to do anything to rekindle that emotion, if it was ever there to begin with, then by all means move on with your life. Face the future with or without this woman with whom you had this great connection, but the fallacy of living out an unfulfilling relationship due to some miscontrued and warped notion of duty is ultimately detrimental to all. I endure my unfulfilling marriage because of the children and I imagine you also deal with those emotions when contemplating this difficult choice. Pray for guidance. Ending a marriage is always painful. However if you stay with your wife out of duty you will ultimately resent her more that you can imagine.

 

All the best.

 

David

[crober05]

Its interesting that the last response was making my husband sound like a victim and me the villian. Thats the way it is when someone has an affair. Nothing else matters - once an aldulterer always the bad guy or gal in my case. Does it make a difference if my husband has spent and is still spending hundreds of thousands of dollars chasing a dream and put our family in financial jeapordy? Does it matter that he hangs out with his friends at a race shop at least 3 nights a week until late at night or that he doesn't take care of business unless I stand over him, or that he allows my 22 year old son to talk to me like I'm a dog & not work because he's going to be a professional race car driver? Oh yeah theres more, but there are also many good things I can say about him just like there are good and bad things about me. Who's to say one sin is worse than another? I hate what I'm doing, but I'm trying to resolve things one way or another. It just sucks that I've lived this life for so long.

[carhill]

There's always more to the story and it's up to you to decide what is healthy for you. LS'ers generally frown on affairs, regardless of whether they're sexual or not. So, it's something you'll have to get used to around here. Accepting that reality and one's personal responsibility will go a long way to both helping with the healing process in the M as well as getting support here.

 

For example, your husband likely did things which eroded your trust in him, confidence in your marriage (your "team"), and your love for him. He's responsible for those actions/words/thoughts. You're responsible for yours, in this case abrogating your H's trust by having an affair. What do you want to do now? That's really the question of the day....