Jose Dutch Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Brevity and clarity with text is not something I'm known for, so hopefully y'all can grasp what I'm trying to say through the mess this could potentially become. I met my wife back in 2002. She was my first girlfriend. Before me, she had four boyfriends, three of which she had been fairly physical with, one as far as being an "everything but" couple. I was well aware of all this when we got married and never had a problem dealing with it once it was out in the open between us. She had been young and stupid, and all three guys had been older and more experienced. She didn't have a strong family background and had a weak father figure, so needing a "strong" male figure made perfect sense. No real problems there. Despite being able to move on from it easily, how she talked about her "everything but" guy sometimes scared me a little. It almost seemed like while she'd closed that chapter in her life, she'd left a bookmark there. Well, we went ahead and got married. I was relieved to know I was done worrying about the guy. We'd bickered a fair amount while we were dating and that didn't change much once we got married. She expected marital bliss even though she was counseled against that line of thinking and became bitter after we'd gotten married because I wasn't Prince Charming all the time (though I tried my hardest, I am still human). After about six months into it I was ready to call it quits because of giving and giving and just being treated poorly in return. My religious and moral upbringing told me it was completely wrong. I followed along what I'd always been taught and decided whether good or bad, whether I felt like I'd made a mistake or not in marrying her, I did marry her and now it was up to me to make it work. So for the next year I really tried my hardest to make things work out. Then one Saturday right before going to sleep I thought back on the day we'd had and realized I was finally beginning to enjoy being married. The very next day we pulled into our apartment complex from church and she dropped some big news on me: at one point, she'd hung out and kissed her "everything but" guy while we were dating. She and her best friend decided it wasn't really that big a deal (she just wanted closure), and that it was best I didn't know. If it had been any of her other three boyfriends and she'd told me, I'd have laughed at her for making the same ol' stupid mistakes she was too old for now and never thought about it again. But this was the guy before me, and the one I always worried might potentially cause a problem. Finding out that it had happened behind my back was devastating. Finding out she had chosen not to tell me completely broke my trust in her. If I'd known she'd gone out with this guy again I'd have broken up with her and never even considered marrying her. I suddenly found myself in a marriage with a girl I didn't trust who I'd regretted marrying in the first place, and less than 24 hours after I felt like we might actually be getting somewhere, that connection was shattered. I was counseled by some of my close friends to stick it out and make it work. So I have for the last year and a half. I've done everything I can to try and make things better. It's been incredibly difficult trying to reconnect with her emotionally, physically and spiritually. She feels like we have, and wants to start a family. I'm nowhere near there! Here's where I'm at right now. We're a little over three years into the marriage, a bit over a year and a half since she told me. Emotionally I still don't trust her at all, and I wonder every day if there's anything going on I don't know about. Physically I feel like sex is more something I'm doing because I want it, not because I want it with her specifically. Spiritually I've fallen off and am afraid to get back in the boat and find out I missed God's plan for my mate, and should have broken up with her at one point when the opportunity arrived about six months before we got engaged. For that it's not so much what it would mean for me as what it would mean for the girl God meant for me. I have a hard time imagining six years of a difficult and frequently painful relationship are really what He wanted for me. Any time I bring it up (which is rarely), she becomes very sardonic. I'm also struggling with how a...(what's the word for an important fact left out?)...that would have ended our relationship because of cheating while dating effects our marriage vows. Can they be broken before they're said if important information is left out prior to? Am I still Biblically "stuck" with her since the vows were made after the fact, meaning does it "count" as an affair? It's all very confusing. I've seen great advice taking place as I've looked through posts for a couple of days before actually joining...anyone got any insight for my situation?
Geishawhelk Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Well this is going to be hard for me, because I'm coming from a position of not believing in God, so I'm just going to give it to you without any Religious overtones. You two should never have gotten married. it's that simple. My partner has had over 100 liaisons, and two previous marriages. I have had far fewer, but I too, have been married twice before - the second time for 22 years. neither of us could giuve a fiddlers bow, about everything that went on in the past. As adults, you're going to meet an awful lot of people, and sexual physial mental chemistry is going to happen. Plain and simple. To give you my honest opinion, I really think it's asking far too much of humans to be faithful to one partner. Of all the mammals on the planet, we are amongst the very very few who remain faithful - or are taught, or conditioned to believe that this is the way it should be. but these 'restrictions' are imposed through Religious, moral ethical and social structures. As mammals - which fundamentally, is what we are - we have an urge to diversify and procreate. Now, I'm not suggesting that this is what you should do, I'm merely pointing out that to continue harbouring suspicions, worries and resentments about previous partners is already a destructive step before you even start. Because she was - and it seems, still is - more outgoing and gregarious than you, and seems to have fewer issues with how freely she feels towards others. I don't know whether this is healthy. but I also don't know that your 'restricted religious view' is healthy, either. You come across as being a little bit uptight and judgemental, which I perceive stem from your religious leanings. For example: I was well aware of all this when we got married and never had a problem dealing with it once it was out in the open between us. It should never have been a problkem at all. What happened before you met each other was none of your businesses. Life wasn't meant to be on hold, or un-lived until this point....We all have a past. She had been young and stupid, and all three guys had been older and more experienced. No she had been young and the guys had been older. That's it and end of story. Stupid doen't come into it. I find this extremely judgemetal, and I think this is more your problem than hers.... Your views on pre-marital celibacy, faithfulness and the expectations you had, have all been severely damaged by your jealousy, and her indiscretion. Now you've been counselled by your firends, and you don't trust her any more. well in that case, stop right there. You can never ever hope to re-build a relationship if you don't have the three vital components supporting the Relationship. Trust, Respect ans effective Communication. All three are absent. You don't trust her, she didn't respect you, and you have no idea how to communicate effectively. Either of you. I would suspect she is far less committed to this relationship than you are, but you are committed to it for the wrong reasons. You're committed to it because Religiously, to give up, separate divorce, find another... all these go against your Christian Morality. However, I further suspect you don't feel like staying in this relaltionship one moment longer, by the sounds of it, on an emotional level. Spiritually I've fallen off and am afraid to get back in the boat and find out I missed God's plan for my mate, and should have broken up with her at one point when the opportunity arrived about six months before we got engaged. For that it's not so much what it would mean for me as what it would mean for the girl God meant for me. This is what I have issue with. I am trying to understand where you are coming from, but if this really was God's plan for you with your mate, she would be on the same page as you are. if this was God's plan, you'd both be sharing the desire to Do his will.... wouldn't you? You'd both be working towards recovering the ideal way to be. As it is, you are completely off the wall here with your resoning. I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with God's plan at all. Not if she's not sharing the vision.... Yes, you should have broken up with her. But something drove you on.. I fear God was never a factor at that point. I have a hard time imagining six years of a difficult and frequently painful relationship are really what He wanted for me. Any time I bring it up (which is rarely), she becomes very sardonic. I rest my case. You need individual counselling for yourself, certainly. And i don't mean speaking with a priest, I do mean professional, independent counselling. There are issues of Trust and aspects of your views which you might like to consider reviewing.... If you wanted to try to go futher and make some sense of what has happened between you, suggest Marriage Counselling to her. However, I really feel (to use your analogy) the boat has actually sailed on this one. The wisest thing to do might be to move on, and salvage what you can of your own happiness, cut her loose, and call it a day.
Geishawhelk Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 (Everybody calls me that! I'm gonna change my name to geishaWALK!! ) It would be better without all the splelong errers.... Editing took too long! (I could say more but I think that's enough to digest for now.....! )
quankanne Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 while I don't deny that y'all could you a good series of counseling sessions to help strengthen your marriage, my underlying concern is your obsession with what happened before the two of you got married. kissing another guy while you're dating might be upsetting, but it doesn't amount to a full-blown affair ... I think you're attempting to throw the baby away with the bathwater because of your self-righteous attitude. she's going to screw up. You're going to screw up. God is about love and forgiveness and trust, not jealousy, paranoia and hanging on to old hurts so you can justify what you're feeling – you really need to acknowledge that if you're serious about trying to live out his plan for you. I know this bugs you, I know you have your doubts, but you need to move past that and develop a mindset that reflects the God you proclaim, period. Else you gonna drive yourself nuts with insecurity and jealousy, and drive your wife to despise you for making a mockery of the very thing you say you uphold.
Moose Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 The very next day we pulled into our apartment complex from church and she dropped some big news on me: at one point, she'd hung out and kissed her "everything but" guy while we were dating. She and her best friend decided it wasn't really that big a deal (she just wanted closure), and that it was best I didn't know.Quank is RIGHT ON! (as usual)..... You ARE throwing the baby out with the bath water..... Your wife confessed this to you to get the preverbial monkey off her back. It's not that she dis-respected you at all, (like geishawhelk said), in fact it's quite the opposite! She confessed to you very much in the way we confess our sins to Christ. You should be relieved that she's putting EVERYTHING on the table for you to digest, and so she can get back to loving her husband for ALL he's worth, and build this life together. Yeah, it's hard to take.....BUT, now you know just how Christ feels when we continue in our sin...... Bury this is the deepest depths of the ocean, and go back to LOVING your wife.....because she does love you! Otherwise, she would've NEVER brought this up!
TrustInYourself Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Ignore the throw your marriage away nonsense. You've worked hard for your marriage and you said yourself you felt happy with her. She obviously felt the same if she felt she could share that information with you. The point is, she married you, not the other bf. You are her husband! You are the man of her life! If she can not confide in you 100% without you reacting like a complete a-hole, then where is that going to get you when crap really hits the fan? A kiss is bad, I'm not marginalizing it. But she trusts you enough to tell you. You should definitely look for the positive there. Ultimately it's your call, but if you believe in marriage and would be willing to make judgements about your wife before she knew you, then you are pretty much trashing your marriage and throwing your marital vows out the window. Emotions can be tough, so I don't blame you for feeling hurt. It's one thing to ignore it and another to communicate through it and address it in a fashion you both can appreciate.
TrustInYourself Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Well this is going to be hard for me, because I'm coming from a position of not believing in God, so I'm just going to give it to you without any Religious overtones. You two should never have gotten married. it's that simple. My partner has had over 100 liaisons, and two previous marriages. I have had far fewer, but I too, have been married twice before - the second time for 22 years. neither of us could giuve a fiddlers bow, about everything that went on in the past. As adults, you're going to meet an awful lot of people, and sexual physial mental chemistry is going to happen. Plain and simple. To give you my honest opinion, I really think it's asking far too much of humans to be faithful to one partner. Of all the mammals on the planet, we are amongst the very very few who remain faithful - or are taught, or conditioned to believe that this is the way it should be. but these 'restrictions' are imposed through Religious, moral ethical and social structures. As mammals - which fundamentally, is what we are - we have an urge to diversify and procreate. Now, I'm not suggesting that this is what you should do, I'm merely pointing out that to continue harbouring suspicions, worries and resentments about previous partners is already a destructive step before you even start. Because she was - and it seems, still is - more outgoing and gregarious than you, and seems to have fewer issues with how freely she feels towards others. I don't know whether this is healthy. but I also don't know that your 'restricted religious view' is healthy, either. You come across as being a little bit uptight and judgemental, which I perceive stem from your religious leanings. For example: It should never have been a problkem at all. What happened before you met each other was none of your businesses. Life wasn't meant to be on hold, or un-lived until this point....We all have a past. No she had been young and the guys had been older. That's it and end of story. Stupid doen't come into it. I find this extremely judgemetal, and I think this is more your problem than hers.... Your views on pre-marital celibacy, faithfulness and the expectations you had, have all been severely damaged by your jealousy, and her indiscretion. Now you've been counselled by your firends, and you don't trust her any more. well in that case, stop right there. You can never ever hope to re-build a relationship if you don't have the three vital components supporting the Relationship. Trust, Respect ans effective Communication. All three are absent. You don't trust her, she didn't respect you, and you have no idea how to communicate effectively. Either of you. I would suspect she is far less committed to this relationship than you are, but you are committed to it for the wrong reasons. You're committed to it because Religiously, to give up, separate divorce, find another... all these go against your Christian Morality. However, I further suspect you don't feel like staying in this relaltionship one moment longer, by the sounds of it, on an emotional level. This is what I have issue with. I am trying to understand where you are coming from, but if this really was God's plan for you with your mate, she would be on the same page as you are. if this was God's plan, you'd both be sharing the desire to Do his will.... wouldn't you? You'd both be working towards recovering the ideal way to be. As it is, you are completely off the wall here with your resoning. I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with God's plan at all. Not if she's not sharing the vision.... Yes, you should have broken up with her. But something drove you on.. I fear God was never a factor at that point. I rest my case. You need individual counselling for yourself, certainly. And i don't mean speaking with a priest, I do mean professional, independent counselling. There are issues of Trust and aspects of your views which you might like to consider reviewing.... If you wanted to try to go futher and make some sense of what has happened between you, suggest Marriage Counselling to her. However, I really feel (to use your analogy) the boat has actually sailed on this one. The wisest thing to do might be to move on, and salvage what you can of your own happiness, cut her loose, and call it a day. LOL, you bring up an interesting philosophical perspective. I'm not sure I agree with you, but as a human being we do deal with many emotions and impulses that are on par with mammals/primates/animals. The difference is that we humans make our fate. We possess the power of choice and the understanding of consequences. To dismiss our actions and inactions as primal instinct and beyond our natural ability would be irresponsible. Just because my dog humps everything he sees because that is the way he feels, doesn't mean I should do the same when I start feeling like a horndog, lol.
Geishawhelk Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 LOL, you bring up an interesting philosophical perspective. I'm not sure I agree with you, but as a human being we do deal with many emotions and impulses that are on par with mammals/primates/animals. The difference is that we humans make our fate. We possess the power of choice and the understanding of consequences. To dismiss our actions and inactions as primal instinct and beyond our natural ability would be irresponsible. Just because my dog humps everything he sees because that is the way he feels, doesn't mean I should do the same when I start feeling like a horndog, lol. I don't want to go off topic here, but try reading my post again. You'll find we're agreeing.
imagine Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Quank is RIGHT ON! (as usual)..... You ARE throwing the baby out with the bath water..... Your wife confessed this to you to get the preverbial monkey off her back. It's not that she dis-respected you at all, (like geishawhelk said), in fact it's quite the opposite! She confessed to you very much in the way we confess our sins to Christ. You should be relieved that she's putting EVERYTHING on the table for you to digest, and so she can get back to loving her husband for ALL he's worth, and build this life together. Yeah, it's hard to take.....BUT, now you know just how Christ feels when we continue in our sin...... Bury this is the deepest depths of the ocean, and go back to LOVING your wife.....because she does love you! Otherwise, she would've NEVER brought this up! Listen to Moose here. You and your wife were in a good place. After church she is convicted of her indiscretion and is sufficiently trusting to confess it to you. Now the phrase that you are looking for is "complete disclosure". You wanted it before the marriage ceremony and therefore, in your mind, this is a deal breaker. Wrong! Did she promise before God to forsake all others to be united to you when she kissed him. I don't think so. This she did when she married you. Now she knew that she wronged you before the marriage - and sought your forgiveness. In my view you are right to take the confession seriously. You should be hurt by the betrayal. I also think that it would have been proper to convey this hurt. That is where retribution should stop. Thereafter is grace. Do you not know that a Christian is part of the bride that is married to Christ. Did you confess all your indiscretions when you were converted. Well, nor did I. This process is ongoing and called sanctification. I urge you to take the beam out your own eye before condemning others (let alone your own wife). It is time for you and I to respond to the instruction from Scripture that requires us husbands to "love our wives as Christ loves the church" Eph 5:25. Okay. When you have finished meditating on this command -and its very large implications - go to your wife. Apologize for YOUR having betrayed her trust and confidence in you when she confessed. Explain that you WERE an utter SH*t to her and that you are trying in God's grace to get better. Ask her forgiveness and her patience with you. Yes. God DID give you this wife. Reject her, and you reject God's plan for both your lives.
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