Wife secret email account for old friend

[lkjh]

Yes.

Counselling.

Had you not discovered this, things might have progressed to something else.

 

Bear this in mind:

Cheating is NOT the issue.

 

The fact is, people do not look for fun and titillation outside of a relationship, if they feel happy and secure within it.

Something - for your wife - has begun to go missing.

This was a fun distraction.

It was a way of relieving the boredom.

 

before you say "that she flushed 15 years of complete and total trust down the drain" ask yourself what you have been contributing to the relationship to make her feel needed, cherished, wanted, nourished and loved?

 

I am not accusing you of being neglectful.

I am not accusing this of being your fault.

But in matters such as these, communication somewhere, has failed.

A relationship is a two-way thing.

Something has changed the layout.

 

Look your very first post tells him that cheating isn't the issue, that he needs to look at what he contributed to make her "feel needed, cherished, wanted, nourished, and loved". If she has to always feel needed and what not then she should not be married because at point in everyone's life they will be a little neglected by their SO and that does not give them the right to cheat. Also nowhere in his post did he state that he neglected her; you just assumed it. Im sorry but many people cheat because they want to not because they are unhappy. If someones child gets run over by a car would the first thing out of your mouth be "hey Im not saying your a bad parent but where you watching your child at the time"? This whole people only cheat because some of their needs are not being met and its up to the BS to fix it is wrong. If people were not capable of taking care of themselves, we as a species would not have made it to where we are today.

 

You stated earlier that it takes 3 to cause an affair and that is blaming him as well.

[lkjh]

No, I disagree with this. You see, what you are saying is sort of legitimizing her behaviors. So if a spouse starts to interact with a co-worker or friend in such a manner, does this mean it's to be expected, or understandable because hey, something is "missing" for her/him?

 

She has to respect her husband and her marriage, plain and simple. Life is tough, marriage is tough, there are lots of outside pressures. But we all have to deal with them. And besides, if she is feeling "bored" or whatever you are suggesting, that doesn't automatically mean the husband is to blame either. Maybe she is too emotionally needy, I don't know. But the husband isn't supposed to be some circus clown whose job is to continually provide entertainment for fear of a wife getting bored and considering having dinner with an old friend she admitted having past interest in. A wife, and husband, are supposed to be loyal to one another through tough times and good times.

 

this sums it up pretty well!!!

[lkjh]

I got to agree with Lizzie in the fact that you are being naive. She created a private email account to talk with this guy and you are still going to let her meet with him. She may be great in your eyes but she is still human and capable of messing up

[Geishawhelk]

I'm getting kinda pissed off having to spell everything out here:

 

PAY attention!!

 

Look your very first post tells him that cheating isn't the issue,

CHEATING ISN'T THE ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S A SYMPTOM. IT'S MASKING THE REAL PROBLEM. THE CHEATING IS A BY-PRODOUCT OF DISSATISFACTION IN THE RELATIONSHIP, ON HER PART.

 

needs to look at what he contributed to make her "feel needed, cherished, wanted, nourished, and loved".

I TOLD HIM THIS ASPECT WAS NOT DELIBERATE, CONTRIVED OR CONSCIOUS. IT HAPPENS. IT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED THE OTHER WAY AROUND, BUT IT DIDN'T.

 

If she has to always feel needed and what not then she should not be married because at point in everyone's life they will be a little neglected by their SO and that does not give them the right to cheat.

OF COURSE IT DOESN'T BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO STOP PEOPLE DOING IT, DOES IT??

 

Also nowhere in his post did he state that he neglected her; you just assumed it.

 

I NEVER SAID HE DID, I ASKED HIM IF HE MIGHT HAVE DONE!!

 

Im sorry but many people cheat because they want to not because they are unhappy.

I AGREE. BUT PEOPLE CHEAT BECAUSE SOMETHING IS MISSING FROM THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIP. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE UNHAPPY, BUT IT DOES MEAN THERE IS A GAP IN THEIR SATISFACTION. THEY MIGHT BE FRUSTRATED, ANGRY, JEALOUS, BORED OR SEX-STARVED. ALL THESE THINGS ARE COVERED BY "I'M NOT HAPPY BECAUSE I'M....."

 

If someones child gets run over by a car would the first thing out of your mouth be "hey Im not saying your a bad parent but where you watching your child at the time"?

 

NO, MY FIRST WORDS WOULD BE TO THE DRIVER. WERRE THEY WATCHING THE ROAD? SEE, IT'S NOT JUST PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT, IT TAKES A DRIVER TOO.....!!

 

this whole people only cheat because some of their needs are not being met and its up to the BS to fix it is wrong

 

AND I'VE SAID THAT WHERE, EXACTLY???

 

If people were not capable of taking care of themselves, we as a species would not have made it to where we are today.

AND IF PEOPLE WERE A LITTLE MORE OPEN, COMMUNICATIVE, MADE MORE OF AN EFFORT AND WERE MORE COMMITTED, 50% OF MARTRIAGES WOULDN'T END IN DIVORCE!!

 

You stated earlier that it takes 3 to cause an affair and that is blaming him as well.

 

HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS, JUST AS SHE IS. RESPONSIBILITY IS DIFFERENT TO BLAME. I NEVER SAID HE WAS TO BLAME.

 

I trust I have clarified my point. Please don't make me go over it all again!

After 4-and-one-half years of doing counselling, I think I have an inkling of the degree of problems involving infidelity and where it stems from!

[Reggie]

I'm getting kinda pissed off having to spell everything out here:

 

PAY attention!!

 

 

CHEATING ISN'T THE ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S A SYMPTOM. IT'S MASKING THE REAL PROBLEM. THE CHEATING IS A BY-PRODOUCT OF DISSATISFACTION IN THE RELATIONSHIP, ON HER PART.

 

 

I TOLD HIM THIS ASPECT WAS NOT DELIBERATE, CONTRIVED OR CONSCIOUS. IT HAPPENS. IT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED THE OTHER WAY AROUND, BUT IT DIDN'T.

 

 

OF COURSE IT DOESN'T BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO STOP PEOPLE DOING IT, DOES IT??

 

 

 

I NEVER SAID HE DID, I ASKED HIM IF HE MIGHT HAVE DONE!!

 

 

I AGREE. BUT PEOPLE CHEAT BECAUSE SOMETHING IS MISSING FROM THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIP. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE UNHAPPY, BUT IT DOES MEAN THERE IS A GAP IN THEIR SATISFACTION. THEY MIGHT BE FRUSTRATED, ANGRY, JEALOUS, BORED OR SEX-STARVED. ALL THESE THINGS ARE COVERED BY "I'M NOT HAPPY BECAUSE I'M....."

 

 

 

NO, MY FIRST WORDS WOULD BE TO THE DRIVER. WERRE THEY WATCHING THE ROAD? SEE, IT'S NOT JUST PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT, IT TAKES A DRIVER TOO.....!!

 

 

 

AND I'VE SAID THAT WHERE, EXACTLY???

 

 

AND IF PEOPLE WERE A LITTLE MORE OPEN, COMMUNICATIVE, MADE MORE OF AN EFFORT AND WERE MORE COMMITTED, 50% OF MARTRIAGES WOULDN'T END IN DIVORCE!!

 

 

 

HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS, JUST AS SHE IS. RESPONSIBILITY IS DIFFERENT TO BLAME. I NEVER SAID HE WAS TO BLAME.

 

I trust I have clarified my point. Please don't make me go over it all again!

After 4-and-one-half years of doing counselling, I think I have an inkling of the degree of problems involving infidelity and where it stems from!

Lots of assumption in this line of thinking. Of course cheating is the problem and a symptom. But , not neccesarily of something the BS was not contribiuting. It , in many cases, is a symptom of a personality disorder that was not amenable to any type of help the BS may have wanted to give.

One simply cannot say with any certainty that the Bs needs to look at his or her contribution to marital dissatisfaction.

Many of us have, I expect, at least as much expierience with this cheating thing as you and your 4 plus years of counseling. This whole it takes 3 thing is not necessarily true. Nor is the disatisfaction with the marriage factor present in all cases. Some folks are just deeply flawed , regardless of the state of the marriage. They view sex as a mere bodily function to be indulged in whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Telling this hurting guy to look at his failings or neglect or whatever is adding insult to injury.

[Geishawhelk]

Yeh, ok. Whatever....

Like I said:

 

I suggest we now wait for the OP to come back in and see if there is anything he'd like to add by way of elaboration, or clarification.

Otherwise we're all spinning round the "it's his fault it's her fault no it isn't yes it is!!"

 

And we're none of us any the wiser!

[carhill]

OP, does your W have a history of flirting with other men and/or engaging in affairs? Do you have evidence of a personality disorder or other mental illness in her history? Depression? We seem to be debating about the allocation of responsibility. It appears we've reasonably established hers. Can you help?

[Reggie]

Give yourself a little more time, G. Maybe you'll figure it out.

[lkjh]

Geish,

Originally I posted that I do not agree with your advice and I have that right. You can post a million more times and I will never believe people are not responsible for their own actions. If you don't believe that some people will cheat even if everything in their life is great then so be it. I know people that have cheated in every single relationship. Communication is not the only factor in infidelity; upbringing, confidence, morals, and self-respect also play a role. The fact that you have 4.5 years of therapy does not make you all knowing. Considering the fact that you are bent on convincing me makes me wonder if you are or were a cheater.

[Al_Bundy]

This whole "needs meeting" thing is absurd. No responsible adult expects another to "meet his/her needs". We are all responsible for our own happiness. If someone is not happy in a marriage the solution is simple, get help or get out.

 

And there isn't one person on earth that can fulfill ALL of someone elses needs. If that were the case, we'd have to quit our jobs.

 

I didn't get all my "needs" met in my marriage. I didn't go out and have an affair.

 

 

The whole "needs meeting" concept smacks of a sense of entitilement.

 

I agree, with the exception of extreme cases where a spouse COMPLETELY ignores, or treats the spouse like crap. And in that case, why stay in the marriage?

[Al_Bundy]

Excuse mew... I hope nobody's taking my name in vain (! ) But nowhere did I imply this is all one sided, or any of his deliberate and conttrived fault.

I didn't say you did. I was replying to lkjh.

[Lookingforward]

Many WS's are often self-centered...focused entirely on themselves. And THAT is the primary reason for the cheating...and there is often VERY, VERY little a BS can do to "change" them.

 

...and very often it's vice versa..........

[JamesM]

This thread is turning into a squabble and is not being very helpful to the OP.

 

First, as much as it is argued against, affairs result most of the time from unmet needs. Those needs may also be unrealistic, but in many cases, the BS simply has a different life and communications have failed. Or it could be that one person no longer enjoys sex or sit down communications, so the lacking partner seeks it elsewhere.

 

Second, it can be established that some affairs happen with no fault of the partner. While this is a smaller percentage, it happens.

 

Third, every affair on this forum will be the second type.

Fourth, every affair on the OW/OM forum will also be the second type.

 

But, it is also true that when someone is hurting from the affair and betrayal, it does not help to continually focus on the faults that may have caused the betrayal. Many times the faults were not adequately communicated to the victimized spouse.

 

Now let's focus on the OP.....

 

What should he do now that he THINKS there is an affair either happening or possibly happening?

 

My first thought is a direct confrontation and counseling. However, he may not have enough evidence to make the "accusation" stick especially if she has denied it already.

 

Then he should "let" his wife have this dinner with the OM and let her know that he trusts her. I know this will be controversial, but to tell her not to go will not work unless she decides not to. And then she may think his guy is even greater than reality. Yes, she may also fall for this guy and begin an affair, but he cannot stop her IMO. She may also decide that this guy is not like her husband and end things...or never start anything.

 

And lastly, he should begin to seduce his wife all over. Fall in love and chase her like he wants to marry her all over again.

 

So what else should he do?

[Lookingforward]

So what else should he do?

 

The usual knee jerk response here? Kick her to the kerb ?

[Al_Bundy]

...and very often it's vice versa..........

 

You mean a BS can change a cheater into a real spouse?

[Al_Bundy]

The usual knee jerk response here? Kick her to the kerb ?

 

So someone that doesn't want to be with a cheater and wants to get rid of them is responding to a "knee jerk" reaction?

 

I call it making a decision to cut out a cancer from your life.

 

If that is a "knee jerk" response, then so be it.

[lkjh]

The OP needs to set some boundaries and ask her not to go out with this guy. Other than that there isn't much he can do. The key logger idea would be great but she is using her work comp and I doubt he has access to it.

[jwi71]

My first thought is a direct confrontation

 

Disagree. Don't confront unless you already have iron-clad proof. The downside risk is that she flat out lies and goes deeper underground and withdraws further. Or learns to hide it better - then the OP never really knows and mistrust breeds yet even more mistrust and suspicion and it gets ugly fast.

 

Monitor. Keylog. Gather evidence. Some basic intelligence gathering until there is a reasonable explanation and she is "innocent" or he gets the "smoking gun".

 

I still think he should go on the trip as well.

[Al_Bundy]

Then he should "let" his wife have this dinner with the OM and let her know that he trusts her. I know this will be controversial

 

You are right, it is controversial. Do you really think he is going to like that suggestion knowing she is smitten for this OM?

 

Its one thing to have a dinner date with an old friend. Its another to have it with someone you know your W has a crush on.

 

 

but to tell her not to go will not work unless she decides not to. And then she may think his guy is even greater than reality. Yes, she may also fall for this guy and begin an affair, but he cannot stop her IMO.

 

But why should he entertain the idea of it? If she is all a twitter for this guy and wants to have dinner with him, and is obviously engaging in inappropriate communications with this guy, why should he put up with it?

 

 

She may also decide that this guy is not like her husband and end things...or never start anything.

 

So how many times in the future do you think he should let her test the waters if she gets the itch for another guy?

 

 

And lastly, he should begin to seduce his wife all over. Fall in love and chase her like he wants to marry her all over again.

 

She gets a hankering for another guy, and he has to bust his rear to keep her? What about her responsibility to her H and the marriage?

[Lookingforward]

NO...I meant THIS as "vice versa" being often the truth.......

Many BS's are often self-centered...focused entirely on themselves. And THAT is the primary reason for the cheating...and there is often VERY, VERY little a WS can do to "change" them.

..unpopular as that view may be here....

[Al_Bundy]

NO...I meant THIS as "vice versa" being often the truth....... ..unpopular as that view may be here....

 

Well this is the infidelity forum, not "BS's Suck And I'm Entitled To Their Spouse" forum.

[Reggie]

Put it in bold letters all you want, this is still just your opinion and, IMO, is simplistic and cliched.

I do agree he should not stand in her way if she wants to hook up. You can't be a gatekeeper forever. Might as well find out what she is made of.

As for the knee jerk thing, one researcher I read found the desire to reconcile to be a knee jerk reaction born out of fear and a desire to compete with the OM.

In this study, the woman researcher found that ,almost invariably, the men she interviewed that stayed in the marriage regretted it by about a year out.They recognized that their initial desire to stay in the marriage was motivated by fear of being alone and the desire to win as against the OM. It dawned on them, after a period of time, that they did not enjoy being married to a person that they could not trust and who had hurt them so much.

So, I'd say that the best way to "react" would be to hold off on committing to either R or D and get counseling to see if you can figure out what is really best. But to characterize the decision to R as the reasonable , non -knee jerk reaction is not accurate. It's about as knee jerk as it gets when made in haste.

The decision to bail can be a well thought out decison. Depends on lots of things.

[lkjh]

I disagree with letting her go out with the OM. If you look at the regions of the world with lower infidelity rates you will see a big pattern where men and women do not take part in behavior like this. They have very clear cut boundaries. I know a lot of us want to believe that these people are less modern or sophisticated then us but in reality I believe we seem to forget that people have an animal side. There will always be someone more attractive then your spouse whether its their looks, intelligence, or job. That is why you can never believe that your M is affair proof. People in real relationships need boundaries because afterall everyone is human and capable of messing up. Im not saying the OP should lock his wife up but he should not be ok with her going on a "date" with a man she admits to being attracted to.

[Reggie]

I feel you have the seduction thing backward. Nothing makes one more unattractive than chasing someone who treats you like dirt. Trying to seduce someone that has stabbed you thorugh the heart shows that person what little self respect you have. It sounds like game playing. But kissing the ass of someone that disrespects you just causes more disdain. It also makes you feel like **** about yourself and the desperate groveling.

[angie2443]

The usual knee jerk response here? Kick her to the kerb ?

 

This would be the smartest move if there were no children. Since there are children, he should tell her if she goes on the date, then he will talk to the divorce lawyer. Why should he play the door mat? If he acts like he is fine with her going, all he is telling her is that she can play him for a fool again and again and again.