OpenBook Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Yes, your body can function without the parts they remove, but your body was not designed to function without them and it will be forced to compensate. As a woman who has had a complete hysterectomy, I vehemently disagree with this. Hormones have wreaked havoc on my life, ever since I turned 13. I am JUST NOW getting back to who I really am (I'm 48). And looking back, it's all because of those g*dd*mn hormones. They made me irrational, moody, anxious, needy/clingy with men - not myself at all. Hormones are Mother Nature's way of encouraging us to propagate the species. If we didn't have them, nobody would have children, and the human race would eventually die out. That's ALL it is. I firmly believe that our bodies are designed to function BETTER without them!! They're an extra embellishment with a specific purpose. It's amazing we survive them at all!! All that said... I do have a daughter. And she has made ALL of the hormonal agony worthwhile. So the way I see it, you pay a huge price either way. Just as a sidenote, if you really don't want kids, then be sure to really have a great career that you truly love. Because there will come a time when you will feel very out of place if you're not deeply involved with something you truly resonate with. Children do fill a void that we sometimes don't know exists until we find ourselves looking backward with regret. I'd just hate to see you have regrets -- and you most likely will if you aren't living a life you love, or becoming a true expert at whatever it is you do. Hear hear!! I think this is a MUST whether you have children or not. It doesn't have to be a career (ideally it would be, but I know we all live in the real world) - could be a hobby, something you do on the side. As long as you indulge/feed it. You need it to define yourself. If you do have children, it is dangerous and unhealthy to wrap up your entire identity into being a mother, IMO - it's hard on you, and unfair pressure on your kids.
vonerik012 Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Well, perhaps men react the way you do because 1. Of your tone, or 2. You seem really shallow You want to "preserve your body"so you do not want kids (I m guessing that means how it physically looks, ), but want to tear up the insides and have a hysterectomy? If you want the truth, a woman who tells me "she hates kids" or knows she "dislikes kids" either seems like an annoying know it all, or someone extremely flawed. Then if she adds "I want to preserve my body", I would be thinking she is shallow. The above is repulsive, not attractive.
BubblyPopcorn Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Men, on the other hand, tend to not take the news so well. They argue, get emotional, and tend to act like the sky's falling in. Men get emotional? Who knew!
prettybaby Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Hahah, your friends are whack! I've never met guys like that where the heck do you live? And why do they care?
BubblyPopcorn Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Hahah, your friends are whack! I've never met guys like that where the heck do you live? And why do they care? I'm going to say Alaska.
Lizzie60 Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 WOW.. I didn't read the OP or the thread.. just the subject line and I cringe at 'non-breeders'.. ouch..that sounds sooo crude..
Jilly Bean Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Mena - where are you meeting these guys? It sounds like anti-abortion fundraisers. In my dating experiences, Ive had men only rarely bring up the topic of kids. I dont think men think too much on it at all. But a hysterectomy is SO extreme, and I think youll be hard-pressed to find a surgeon in the US who will do it as a form of birth control. What are you possibly thinking? Thats like a guy who is bitter about women and decides to get castrated.
Bells Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I'm a 27 year old woman who decided many years ago not to have children. As far as I'm concerned, that's it, it's my business, my decision and I will not change my mind - case closed. Not a big deal, right? Well, sometimes the topic of having kids comes up in conversation. While most people are surprised at how decided I am at this age, and unable to grasp where I'm coming from, I've noticed that women seem to react in a much more...normal way than men. Typically, a woman will probe a bit and be content to end the discussion with something amicable like "Well that's your decision, but you never know if you'll change your mind way down the track". Men, on the other hand, tend to not take the news so well. They argue, get emotional, and tend to act like the sky's falling in. There's no hearing my reasons, no discussing things - just an endless stream of reasons as to why kids are great and why I should have kids and how there's absolutely no arguing because I'm going to have kids and that's final. The reaction can generally be summed up as utter shock, disgust, disbelief and denial. When they demand further explanation, I tell the truth; I dislike children, dislike the thought of being pregnant, and wish to preserve my body. My reasons are obviouisly not the 'overpopulated world' excuse and other such nonsense they were expecting. This tends to be greeted with anger and occasionally verbal abuse. This is where s*** ususally hits the fan. Each to their own I say - until someone treads on my toes and treats me like I'm absolutely worthless because why? Because I choose not to breed?? There were a couple of instances where I've had guys follow me around at clubs for hours (way back in the day) and show a keen interest. We'd get talking and eventually The Topic would come up. As soon as they realised I was not too turned on by the idea of sitting at home playing with babies that'd be it. I distinctly remember one guy who gave me a blank stare, slammed (or dropped) his drink on the table and literally hightailed it outta there as fast as he could. Bit of a relationship killer, eh? It seems that Non-Breeders are the biggest deal-breaker one could imagine. I thought that a guy would be interested in me for who I am - not because of what I could produce for them down the track! Guess I was wrong... This all came to a head recently when I began to make some inquiries about maaaaybbe having a hysterectomy a few years down the track. Not a single doctor took me seriously, but the male ones really laid into me and tried to tell me how stupid and irresponsible I was being and how I WOULD change my mind eventually. The visibile shift from professional to personal mode was obvious, and these medical 'professionals' made no attempt to hide it. I walked out of each appointment feeling like I was public property. This whole topic intrigues me as much as it irritates me. I want to know why men act this way and where they're coming from. I know someone is going to say it's because men are genetically programmed to spread their seed, or something like that. But that's far too simplistic for me. I'd like to delve further. It's probably shocking to people because women are the gender that highly desires having children...esp when they reach 30.
Kamille Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 It's probably shocking to people because women are the gender that highly desires having children...esp when they reach 30. I couldn't wait until one of our most conservative member posted on the topic - and I think his post exemplifies why it bothers traditionnal men the most: their own perception of the dating market and their value in it is based on men having the upper hand since women should be desperate to have children. I personally don't believe there needs to be an upperhand in the dating world, especially since gender is such a fluid thing ()
Trialbyfire Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Or maybe inssision. (sic). OP, I wonder if you're giving TMI too soon. Wait till you know the guy a bit, before you start planning your reproductive future with him. Hint: like at least the third date. I agree with the TMI comment. First date or meet and greet discussion about marriage, nvm babies, would have me breaking the record on the 100m dash, and I'm a woman. Maybe that's why the guy thumped down his drink and ran away at the bar.
BubblyPopcorn Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I'd like to flip the script for a moment...OP, I'd be interested to know the reason as to why you have no desire to reproduce. Just curious.
rod_in_gtown Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I'd like to flip the script for a moment...OP, I'd be interested to know the reason as to why you have no desire to reproduce. Just curious. She already said that on her original post When they demand further explanation, I tell the truth; I dislike children, dislike the thought of being pregnant, and wish to preserve my body. My reasons are obviouisly not the 'overpopulated world' excuse and other such nonsense they were expecting.
Bells Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I couldn't wait until one of our most conservative member posted on the topic - and I think his post exemplifies why it bothers traditionnal men the most: their own perception of the dating market and their value in it is based on men having the upper hand since women should be desperate to have children. I personally don't believe there needs to be an upperhand in the dating world, especially since gender is such a fluid thing () Never mentioned that It did bother me, just stating what other men might be thinking. Personally, I don't have a problem with a woman not wanting children....just stating most people (both men and probably other women) find it a bit unusual for a woman to not desire children...mainly due to the fact they get the "Warm Fuzzies" when they see a baby or something to that effect.
BubblyPopcorn Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 She already said that on her original post Oopsies, I missed that part. Nevermind! lol
Isolde Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Well, you learn something new every day. I thought guys got scared the moment the word "children" came up. Even in the late twenties, early thirties range. Unless they're like madly in love with you, maybe. I'm one of those people who's not really sure, just because you never know what life will throw at you. But if you feel confident in this decision, then it has already saved you a lot of time, and there are plenty of guys who are sure to feel the same or impartial about children.
samspade Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 This is absurd. There may be a few men out there who take umbrage that a woman wouldn't want to have kids, let alone throw a fit, but most guys wouldn't give a flying F. Especially early on in the relationship. The male sex, in general, is not in a hurry to reproduce because men don't operate on the limited schedule women do. This truism is certainly borne out in the incredulous responses to this posting. This sounds like a b.s.-loaded anti-male rant. But if this woman really is telling the truth and consistently getting angry, disgusted reactions from men, maybe it has more to do with her angry, militant personality than it does with whether the dude wants babies or not. After all, we know the one constant in these situations is HER. Sounds like she's looking for an reason why these men won't sleep with her. Anyway, there are so many desperate-for-babies 30 something women out there ready to shame a man who prefers to live life his way and not have kids, that even if this woman's claim is true, there's no reason to feel sorry for her. Now you know how many guys feel. That's life.
Taramere Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 This whole topic intrigues me as much as it irritates me. I want to know why men act this way and where they're coming from. I know someone is going to say it's because men are genetically programmed to spread their seed, or something like that. But that's far too simplistic for me. I'd like to delve further. I'm 40, I don't have children and I don't recall anyone every haranguing me about it in the way you describe...but then my feelings about children and motherhood are probably quite different from yours. I was always more ambivalent about it; didn't have that desperate ache to have children that I've heard some women talk about, but wasn't repelled by the idea either. I'm inclined to agree with Kamille. While men will laugh and make the cross sign in respect of "desperately broody" women, the notion of women being desperate for children probably feels like a pretty major trump card...and in that sense, women who are very clear about not wanting children could feel like a threat to that trump card. The reaction you're talking about sounds really extreme, though. I'd agree with people who are wondering why you get into such personal discussion with men you've just met in bars when the alcohol is flowing. My guess would be that if it keeps happening then that would suggest this is an issue that you rather than they are keen to put onto the table for discussion. To alleviate some other people's discomfort about the fact that I don't have children (because it's something that some people do get uncomfortable/pitying about) I emphasise that I love being an aunt (which I do). I think people are most liable to get antsy when confronted with a woman who talks about actively disliking children. If you consider it carefully, that's not too surprising. I'm sure as children most of us at some point ran into an adult who we instinctively knew disliked children - and who, consequently, we felt uneasy around.
vonerik012 Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Major trump card? Look... Tell many women you hate kittens, dislike kittens, etc and even that would be a deal breaker for some women. Personally I do not dislike cats, but nevertheless I know many women would take offense. So if someone despises children to the point that they would have a hysterectomy, or make that a talking point on a date, yes, many men would be repulsed. It seems like that person is flawed. They would dislike their own offspring. It just seems empty. And then the reason given is "to preserve my body". Well that seems selfish. Men with kids would not be able to date her as she dislikes kids, and men who might want kids would not be able to date her, as she will never have them. So who is left for her to date? Maybe an old man with grown kids? if I told women "I dislike kids, and I am thinking about castrating myself" I doubt I would get many second dates from single moms, or from single women with no kids. they would think I am a freak.
Geishawhelk Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 So if someone despises children to the point that they would have a hysterectomy, or make that a talking point on a date, yes, many men would be repulsed. It seems like that person is flawed. They would dislike their own offspring. It just seems empty. They wouldn't dislike their own offspring because they don't intend having any to begin with! The term 'offspring' doesn't figure for a woman who is dead-set against ever having a child! And then the reason given is "to preserve my body". Well that seems selfish. Why, exactly? Men with kids would not be able to date her as she dislikes kids, and men who might want kids would not be able to date her, as she will never have them. So who is left for her to date? Maybe an old man with grown kids? Or maybe a man who has no intention of fathering kids, either by accident or by design. I know four such men, off the top of my head. All under 40. if I told women "I dislike kids, and I am thinking about castrating myself" I doubt I would get many second dates from single moms, or from single women with no kids. they would think I am a freak. No, but if you were to tell a woman, 'I've had a vasectomy because I don't want to father children', that would be a done thing. Dating you after that would be up to them. Moms with kids may well have had enough and not want any more thank you very much! For a single woman with no kids, the choice is hers. If you've done the deal, then that would be it. And, why 'castration?' it doesn't equate with having a hysterectomy. Removal of a uterus doesn't prevent enjoying a full sex life.... if you were to have a castration, I really WOULD think there was something seriously wrong with your marbles!
Jersey Shortie Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Then if she adds "I want to preserve my body", I would be thinking she is shallow. The above is repulsive, not attractive. Yeah, OP...remember, it's only men that are entitled to be shallow. Seriously Vonerik, coming from a guy that touts the looks of women as being important to men and youth being ideal for men, you can not blame or condemn a woman that wishes to "preserve *her* body". I find you incredibly ironic. And I would like to know why that isn't a good excuse? Kids do rack havok on your body. And sometimes, husbands/boyfriends don't like it and are staring at the college aged girls. I don't blame any woman for being concerned about her looks when most men are infact, concerned about women's looks. So please scrap the shallow comment because I don't really think men arne't not shallow. Guy: "So, do you want to go back to my place and make babies?" Mena: "Well, here's the thing..."
Trimmer Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 And then the reason given is "to preserve my body". Well that seems selfish. Men with kids would not be able to date her as she dislikes kids, and men who might want kids would not be able to date her, as she will never have them. So who is left for her to date? Maybe an old man with grown kids? Hey, people decide not to have kids for all sorts of reasons - lifestyle, financial, career. I don't know why one would consider making that choice about preserving one's body as being any more selfish than any of the other reasons. I think everyone - man and woman - gets to decide for him or herself for whatever reasons they want. That decision is always "selfish," and appropriately so. I don't want anyone having kids who isn't 100% committed, and anyone who decides not to for any reason, I say more power to them. They don't owe me anything, so it doesn't come off as "selfish." if I told women "I dislike kids, and I am thinking about castrating myself" I doubt I would get many second dates from single moms, or from single women with no kids. they would think I am a freak. No, but if you were to tell a woman, 'I've had a vasectomy because I don't want to father children', that would be a done thing..... And, why 'castration?' it doesn't equate with having a hysterectomy. Removal of a uterus doesn't prevent enjoying a full sex life.... if you were to have a castration, I really WOULD think there was something seriously wrong with your marbles! Even if his analogy is not perfect, I think his theme still gets to an important point. Let's say, instead, that I chose to have my testicles removed for the purpose of birth control, when I could have chosen the simpler, effective, and more medically indicated vasectomy. Barring medical reasons, and assuming it was simply elective birth control, doesn't that read as casting out - literally cutting out - a demon organ? Not just a surgery, but a STATEMENT? That's where the "marbles" question comes into play for me.
Trialbyfire Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 To take another run at this, there appears to be a number of reasons why men would react so emotionally. I know it's never happened to me before but then I do want children but most definitely don't introduce the subject, on first meet: When people are met with belligerence, their first response will be belligerence. Perhaps in bringing the discussion around to how much you abhor children or marring your body right from the get-go, it might be generating a similar hostile response.It's unusual for a woman to not want children, to the point of wanting to remove all future possibilities. Why bother, just don't have any?Bringing up something as personal and relationship focused as the subject of children, might be making some guys wonder where your mind has already gone to, and that's in a "Let's shack up or get married after we shag tonight" direction. Scary at first meet and greet or date.
Jilly Bean Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 if I told women "I dislike kids, and I am thinking about castrating myself" I doubt I would get many second dates from single moms, or from single women with no kids. they would think I am a freak. I dont want children, and I would still think you were a freak. This type of action is WAY extremist. Particularly when other, er, less intrusive and permanent methods are available. I would think guys would think this of a woman who wanted a full hysterectomy in order to avoid ALL remote options of ever ending up pregnant, no?
konfuzd Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 There are reasons why doctors are reluctant to preform vasectomies/hystorectomies at a young age. A lot of people change their minds as their situations change. My BF for example was adamant about never having children. His last gf tried to trap him into getting her pregnant, but he got wise to it and kicked her to the curb. It left him pretty jaded, so he consulted with his doctor for a vasectomy who refused to do the procedure. When he and I met, he told me that he never wanted kids, and I accepted that, being as I'm on the fence. Recently, after the passing of his grandfather, my bf started talking about having kids and is now sitting on the fence with me. I don't know if his grandpa said anything to him, or if it's just the situation, but he talked about how he has a lot of skills and experiences he would love to be able to share with another generation. Now, he'll start a lot of sentences with "our kids will..." or "if we have kids..." Not saying you will change your mind, but it's nice to know the option is there, should your life circumstances or views change.
vonerik012 Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Exactly.. I do wonder how someone could be SOOO positive they NEVER want children. Secondly, many women have great bodies after having kids. Thirdly, as women age, so does their body. Is this the type of women who will enter a major depression as she ages and her body is not as firm as when she was 18? In effect, if you meet a girl who never wants kids, just because she does not want them, or to preserve her body, she has also made that decision for you if you decide to stay with her. So it is best to let them be.. I do not think many men KNOW DEFINITIVELY they NEVER want children at the age of 25-35. And yes, the fact she wants to remove her entire uterus, seems very extreme. To me, down right scary. Disliking kids, your body, and whom you are that much,that you willingly want to go under the knife to take out what you are born with?
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