Mena Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I'm a 27 year old woman who decided many years ago not to have children. As far as I'm concerned, that's it, it's my business, my decision and I will not change my mind - case closed. Not a big deal, right? Well, sometimes the topic of having kids comes up in conversation. While most people are surprised at how decided I am at this age, and unable to grasp where I'm coming from, I've noticed that women seem to react in a much more...normal way than men. Typically, a woman will probe a bit and be content to end the discussion with something amicable like "Well that's your decision, but you never know if you'll change your mind way down the track". Men, on the other hand, tend to not take the news so well. They argue, get emotional, and tend to act like the sky's falling in. There's no hearing my reasons, no discussing things - just an endless stream of reasons as to why kids are great and why I should have kids and how there's absolutely no arguing because I'm going to have kids and that's final. The reaction can generally be summed up as utter shock, disgust, disbelief and denial. When they demand further explanation, I tell the truth; I dislike children, dislike the thought of being pregnant, and wish to preserve my body. My reasons are obviouisly not the 'overpopulated world' excuse and other such nonsense they were expecting. This tends to be greeted with anger and occasionally verbal abuse. This is where s*** ususally hits the fan. Each to their own I say - until someone treads on my toes and treats me like I'm absolutely worthless because why? Because I choose not to breed?? There were a couple of instances where I've had guys follow me around at clubs for hours (way back in the day) and show a keen interest. We'd get talking and eventually The Topic would come up. As soon as they realised I was not too turned on by the idea of sitting at home playing with babies that'd be it. I distinctly remember one guy who gave me a blank stare, slammed (or dropped) his drink on the table and literally hightailed it outta there as fast as he could. Bit of a relationship killer, eh? It seems that Non-Breeders are the biggest deal-breaker one could imagine. I thought that a guy would be interested in me for who I am - not because of what I could produce for them down the track! Guess I was wrong... This all came to a head recently when I began to make some inquiries about maaaaybbe having a hysterectomy a few years down the track. Not a single doctor took me seriously, but the male ones really laid into me and tried to tell me how stupid and irresponsible I was being and how I WOULD change my mind eventually. The visibile shift from professional to personal mode was obvious, and these medical 'professionals' made no attempt to hide it. I walked out of each appointment feeling like I was public property. This whole topic intrigues me as much as it irritates me. I want to know why men act this way and where they're coming from. I know someone is going to say it's because men are genetically programmed to spread their seed, or something like that. But that's far too simplistic for me. I'd like to delve further.
joshaz Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 USA? Bible belt perhaps? I wouldn't take it too seriously... Everyone out there loves to tell others what to do. **** 'em.
Jersey Shortie Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I've never heard of such a thing. I am not sure I want kids and have told guys as much. I might, but I might not. The ususal response is that they think that's fair and it's usually something so far in the future that it's not something guys focus on right away. Now if you were getting real serious and getting into talking about marriage, and kids came up and a guy wanted to have them and you didn't. I could understand a guy wanting to move on. But to have the reaction you've been getting? I really find it a little unbelievable that you meet guys that have that strong of a reaction. Perhaps it's the way you approach the subject. Perhaps its the way you read into their reaction. I don't know. It's rather strange.
quankanne Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I also think it's kind of odd that you're drawing this sort of response – guys don't generally think in terms of parenthood, and do their best to avoid it, in my experience! That's not to say there aren't men out there who can't wait to be daddies, but for the most part, it's the last thing on their mind. by your use of the term "non-breeder," I get the feeling that your repulsion toward children is what incites the kind of reaction you get, not the fact that you don't want kids. Is there something you're leaving out about these conversations? Because like I said, most guys try to avoid parenthood because it's a reality that is unknown and scary. as for the hysterectomy, why go so severe when a tubal ligation takes care of the problem? You're screwing up the chemistry of your body when you remove your ovaries, and that's what a hysterectomy entails, removal of ALL inner sex organs.
Storyrider Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 How is it that the topic of whether you want children comes up frequently at clubs?
Nemo Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 How is it that the topic of whether you want children comes up frequently at clubs? Guy: "So, do you want to go back to my place and make babies?" Mena: "Well, here's the thing..."
OceanBlue Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 as for the hysterectomy, why go so severe when a tubal ligation takes care of the problem? You're screwing up the chemistry of your body when you remove your ovaries, and that's what a hysterectomy entails, removal of ALL inner sex organs. Not true. They leave the ovaries when possible so that the body continues with the natural hormones and you go through menopause. There is no option to change your mind with a hysterectomy. With a tubal - it may be reversible and if not, then in vitro becomes a viable option if you decide you do want a baby. I can undertand the questioning with a hysterectomy. It allows for no change of mind later. But if you are that commited to no kids, I'd keep looking for a doctor to do it - who needs periods if you can get rid of them? Myself - I had a tubal. But I was in my mid 30's and had 2 kids. Wish I had thought of a hysterectomy. But to be honest - I don't know that it can be elective surgery. It is much more involved than the tubal with a considerably longer recovery time.
bobdole Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I don't see how anyone would want kids personally. Call me greedy but kids cost a F***ton of money. Just think of all the disposable income you would have without kids. You could take romantic long vacations, have a spectacular home, ect (assuming you are both working and have middleclass type jobs).
Nemo Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I don't see how anyone would want kids personally. Call me greedy but kids cost a F***ton of money. Just think of all the disposable income you would have without kids. You could take romantic long vacations, have a spectacular home, ect (assuming you are both working and have middleclass type jobs). You can tax your kids when they grow up, and get all of that money back, with interest. And they'll look after you when you can no longer wipe your own bottom.
TigerCub Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Yeah I'm baffled by this one as well. I don't think I want kids in the future and any guy that I've had the conversation with, didn't react like he was repulsed or offended. I too am 27 and so the guys I would meet/date are around that age, and yeah, those guys aren't in a rush to be fathers and they certainly don't react to The Topic like the guys you described.
Capricciosa Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Just go out with guys who are older and already have kids. Then you'll be belle of the ball. As for the strong reaction, alcohol makes everyone overreact. Maybe stop having these personal conversations in clubs.
rod_in_gtown Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I'm pretty sure I don't want to breed, and as a single male, I don't have a problem with anybody "knowing" that they won't ever have kids. I think going to the extreme of getting a hysterectomy at 27 is a mistake. But from my own experience, I know that as I've grown, I've changed my "unmovable" stances. It's part of maturing. I can't speak for these doctors, but I would say,try an IUD instead of a hysterectomy. Just because you are positive right now that you don't want to have babies, doesn't mean that you won't decide later that maybe you do. I'm not saying you will, but if you do, you'll have options. Just know that if you go through with it, and then change your mind, you'll regret it for the rest of your life. PS, I'm a non-breeder too, and I've thought about vasectomy. But I won't do it because I know that I don't know everything. I'm humble enough to know that I can learn and change, and that change is actually what helps us mature.
Konfuzion Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I can understand why Dr's don't want to give you a hysterectomy, but maybe you should look into getting a tubal. However people's reaction to you not wanting children is odd, I work with a man that at age 22 got a vasectomy and I have all the respect in the world for his dissision. Its good to know what you want in life.
Nemo Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 , I work with a man that at age 22 got a vasectomy and I have all the respect in the world for his dissision. Dissision? I think you mean dissection. Otherwise, a good and thoughtful post.
carhill Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I want to know why men act this way and where they're coming from Haven't you heard? Ships are arriving from Mars every day. Seriously, IMO, it's an immortality thing. Even someone like myself, who thinks that there is no thought processes I can't control , has had thoughts of this. I can't have children. I think people, especially men, see children as a form of immortality, a perpetuation of their character, physicality and genetics. It's a form of genetic power, and power is an important part of a man's psyche.
Konfuzion Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Dissision? I think you mean dissection. Otherwise, a good and thoughtful post. No I meant decision, but my spelling gets crappy when I am tired and the 3 hours of sleep I got last night just isnt cutting it right now.... And I am at work for the next 10 hours.... Hopefully I will have time to sleep at work
Konfuzion Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Haven't you heard? Ships are arriving from Mars every day. Seriously, IMO, it's an immortality thing. Even someone like myself, who thinks that there is no thought processes I can't control , has had thoughts of this. I can't have children. I think people, especially men, see children as a form of immortality, a perpetuation of their character, physicality and genetics. It's a form of genetic power, and power is an important part of a man's psyche. Its also a way people try to tie someone down in a relationship. Sad but true.
Storyrider Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Dissision? I think you mean dissection. Otherwise, a good and thoughtful post. Or maybe inssision. (sic). OP, I wonder if you're giving TMI too soon. Wait till you know the guy a bit, before you start planning your reproductive future with him. Hint: like at least the third date.
carhill Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Its also a way people try to tie someone down in a relationship. Sad but true. Very true. I've seen many instances of this (from men). They think it will make the woman more dependent on them. Thankfully, those days are dwindling and hopefully those male's genetic material will die with them
D-Lish Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I've never had any man react to my thoughts about not wanting children. I did go through that phase about not wanting kids from the time I was young until I was about 32. I am open to the idea now- but it's getting too late. A hystorectomy is so extreme at this stage of the game for you. Imagine going through menopause at the age of 27. Not a nice experience. A TL is a much safer and more appropriate procedure. I'm not surprised Dr's don't want to go down that road. I think they'd only be looking after your best interest, not trying to control what you do with your body. I've actually had women react with shock and surprise. However- talking about kids on the first date or first meeting hasn't been something I've ever done.
Angel1111 Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 All during my 20's, I didn't want children -- but it never once occured to me to mutilate the insides of my body over this issue. It's ridiculous to voluntarily go in for a hysterectomy when you have no health problems - whether you want kids or not (and the ability to have children is not a health problem). Yes, your body can function without the parts they remove, but your body was not designed to function without them and it will be forced to compensate. But you will pay for that compensation, so don't kid yourself. People have gotten far too comfortable about surgery and seem to forget what it truly entails. So, in that sense, I applaud all doctors who refuse to do unnecessary procedures. I also think doctors are wise to not be party to letting someone make a permanent decision about something of such magnitude when you're still young. You may think this is the way you'll always feel, but people often change their minds. And then if you do change your mind, but something irreversible has been done, it can be devastating to you. I agree that doctors don't need to be preaching to you about this, but they probably see so many cases where women change their minds that they already know the implications of doing what you ask. Better to just leave your body alone for now and recognize that you really are too young to know that you are a changable being, and that making a permanent decision about this now may not be your smartest move. But, yes, as long as you feel this way, you need to upfront about it with anyone you date seriously so that they know where you stand. Although I've never known a man to behave in the ways you describe, most of them do want to eventually settle down and have a family, and this would be a dealbreaker for a lot of men. But if a man tries to engage you in an argument about it, or becomes abusive, then walk away. This wasn't, and never will be, the man for you. The issue about children is just an excuse to control or abuse. I do think it's possible that this is actually such a hot topic in your own mind that you may be unknowingly stirring up the topic before it should ever become an issue. Just something to think about. Just as a sidenote, if you really don't want kids, then be sure to really have a great career that you truly love. Because there will come a time when you will feel very out of place if you're not deeply involved with something you truly resonate with. Children do fill a void that we sometimes don't know exists until we find ourselves looking backward with regret. I'd just hate to see you have regrets -- and you most likely will if you aren't living a life you love, or becoming a true expert at whatever it is you do.
Trimmer Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 I would never have responded (nor would I now) to a woman in this way if she had told me what you said. On the other hand, if she treated me like I was repulsive for being a potential "breeder," then I wouldn't really be inclined to continue contact with her, but I would see no reason to take offense at her decision (which I agree, she has every right to make, for whatever reason she chooses, and doesn't have to justify it...) Out of curiosity, how do you respond to a man, once you find out that he might want to be a "breeder" some day? Edited to add: I also agree that no doctor should give you a personal lecture about this, but on the other hand, I also understand their uwillingness to perform an elective hysterectomy on an otherwise healthy 27-year old. Their unwillingness to cut you doesn't mean your body is public property. You still have every right not to have children - nobody can force you to do that - so your feeling that your body is public property isn't consistent with the reality of the situation. And since a TL is always still an option, you aren't even being prevented from taking the surgical route to birth control...
Stockalone Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Bit of a relationship killer, eh? It seems that Non-Breeders are the biggest deal-breaker one could imagine. I thought that a guy would be interested in me for who I am - not because of what I could produce for them down the track! Guess I was wrong... I don't think of it as what you can produce for a man, it's more like what do you want to achieve together. Wanting kids or not is a part of who you are, not some unrelated personal choice that won't affect how people react towards you. Obviously, there is no need to be rude and put a woman down for not wanting children. Still, I wouldn't date a woman who doesn't want kids. We wouldn't be compatible. Live and let live, so I would move on. I want to know why men act this way and where they're coming from. I know someone is going to say it's because men are genetically programmed to spread their seed, or something like that. But that's far too simplistic for me. I'd like to delve further. I do want to have a wife that I love, a few kids plus a pet, a nice and quiet home in the suburbs. Basically, the white picket fence dream. Thus, I wouldn't want a relationship with a woman who doesn't want kids. One of the reasons I want this, is because that is how I grew up. And I have a lot of great childhood memories and I also had a carefree childhood. Being able to or at least trying to pass on this experience to the next generation seems to be a worthwile endeavour. Thinking about all the generations that have come before me and overcome great adversity to produce the current generation is very humbling. The least I can do is try to do my part in this and see to it that there will be future generations when I am long gone. However, I don't think of it as an obligation, but a privilege to have that opportunity. I have to admit that the idea of immotality is also a factor. Not that I would want to live forever, but the desire of passing on those genes that have survived for so long is very strong.
Geishawhelk Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 And they'll look after you when you can no longer wipe your own bottom. Trustv me, for people without kids, they go into homes where other people's kids are employed to wipe their bottoms. Even with an hysteretomy leaving the ovaries, they only continue functioning for another 6 years or so. Then HRT is necessary.
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