Fell_on_black_days Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 My husband is a total pig, i will admit he has improved somewhat since we got married but there is so much more room for improvement.; We fight about this issur constantly, latley i just give up and end up doing this myself, im tired of the 'ill do it later' answer and then it never gets done. i work the same hours as he does, its just not fair that i have to do all the house work as well. and when i ask him to wash dishes or clean up a little he laughs at me, that its a 'woman's job'. which makes me go crazy. his mom has spoiled him and litteraly takes his socks off for him so she can wash them, and i made it clear that i am not like that and will not be like that. it really has grown out of control. but latley my passive attitude has made things more calm. but im still mad about things. Recently it was brought up with him and i over the phone, in a half joking way, and i told him that i wont have kids with him unless he changes his ways and starts to contribute to this household, that he admitted he would never change a diaper, ever. i told him that i wont be a single parent in a marriage. and that if he doesnt act right, and start helping i wont have children with him, and i know he wants kids really bad. was that really immature of me, im not very excited about the children subject because im scared of what its gonna be like for me after that happens, i will fee totally alone, and it isnt fair since i didnt have a child alnoe, i shouldnt raise it alone either. he thought i was joking but i made it clear i wasnt, but it hasnt been brought up since. i want him to take me seriously. i dont like this old fashioned way of thinking that he has, since i am far from that. he has improved a little, but not enough, not unless we have a row about it, then he goes back to behaving properly. am i blowing this out of proportion, or do i have a right to be this upset. its not now that im concerned about, its later, i cant keep doing this forever, especially that i work full time, make more money, take care of all the household bills, groceries, home improvements, cooking, cleaning, washing. he does nothing, litterally nothing, well except when the car needs work, he takes it to the mechanic for me. THATS IT! no joke. and i dont want him to get used to my behaviour of letting things go for the sake of not fighting anymore. he thinks i gave up but i havent.
Geishawhelk Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 I thought your husband lives in Egypt? You say in another thread that he's been unfaithful to you... Has he come home? And suddenly, his infidelity is not a problem, but his sloppiness is....? I don't get it....?
Angel1111 Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 You already have a child - your husband. The reason he wants kids really badly is because in his mind there's no responsibility involved so, therefore, no buy-in. You're right to be concerned about feeling like a single mom with this man because that's exactly what you'll be. And you can't really whine or act surprised about it if you choose to have kids with him because he has already given you the heads-up that he has no plans to help you whasoever. What will probably happen is that you will end up being a single mom because you'll get sick of the way he treats you. Then you'll have to put your child through a divorce, visitation, etc. And this man will never be out of your life. I hope you'll think about that. This is why I never had kids with my ex because I knew he would never help and I knew that if I divorced him, the child would always be a tie between us. I DID NOT want that. Your husband will never change - I hope you realize that. His mother has done him and you such a disservice by treating him the way she did. She should be slapped. But, the truth is, this is the person you married. I personally couldn't live with such an ass but that's your call. The best you can do if you stay with this idiot is to tell him you're hiring a maid to clean the house because you're not his mother.
Geishawhelk Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 With reference to my post above (number 2) I checked your other post again - I see you moved over there with him.... my mistake. Or maybe, in this case, yours... So you have a husband who has cheated on you AND acts like you're his housekeeper and walks all over you.....?? :confused: You don't need advice. you need to get your suitcases out and pack them, wave 'bye bye' and go home to the good ol' USA. You go gurl....!!
Krisa Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 I think you married my exBF. i know what all that feels like...Me and my xbf went through the same thing daily ...until finally i had enough...and let me tell you what, im so much more happy. I think it's time to walk away they never change.
Ronni_W Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 Going by the info Geisha provided, it seems the differences between you could very well stem primarily from cultural traditions and beliefs. There doesn't feel to be too great a likelihood of him realizing that he needs to compromise, does there? In which case, you give up all your childhood traditions and beliefs, or you admit that you made a mistake and you call it quits on your marriage. Another option is to hire a housekeeper (and nanny when the time comes.) It is about getting done what you both want and feel "should" get done, I assume, not about WHO is doing it. If it is that you specifically need him to do it, and/or vice versa, then there are some power struggle/control issues at play, as well. Yes, trying to manipulate someone to do what you want is immature, and using pregnancy to do that makes it doubly so. It is not that is "improper" to be a "pig slob" or a "neat nazi" -- it is just a difference in preference/style that doesn't make for a happy and harmonious home life. You are upset...that is perfectly fine and valid. You don't need a "right" to feel however you feel. Is it "proper" (appropriate) to feel upset over a situation that you really ought to have had a great deal of accuracy foreseeing, is a different question. Hugs and good luck. It sounds as if you will need to take clear, unmistakable steps to ensure that you receive what you want from Life. Whether your marriage does/will support your own desires, needs and goals ... ???
Author Fell_on_black_days Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 Geisha, i have been in Egypt with him for almost a year now, but he is coming to the states with me in about a month, he wasnt sure about moving to the states he was nervous and for the sake of our marriage i decided to stay in egypt with him untill it was time to go. and ofcourse his infidelity is still much more of an issue then his sloppiness. but his sloppiness is a daily issue, rather then then his infidelity, which doesnt come up as much. (see other thread) but for the sloppiness, i do too think its his mom fault Angel. she ruined him for me or any other woman after me. and i wish i could slap her myself. he has improved somewhat, but why do i have to yell and get upset before something is done about it. he tells me if i need anything to done to just tell him, but am i insane to not want to have to tell him, that he should see this on his own? i do believe its partly the cultural traditions, and the difference between how he grew up and how i did. many of them view women as second class citizens, that the man is the man, and the woman is the woman. if you know what i mean. yet his mother is a teacher and still is till today, he has such respect and admiration for her and his sister, which does reflect on me as well on how he treats me. ive made him sound like an a-hole, but not all the time, i will give him credit, that even though it is acceptable in his culture to raise his hand on his wife, he has never done so with me, and when we fight i admit i get nasty sometimes and say ugly things, but he never does. and about the children issue, im not even that crazy about the idea at all, so i really dont mind not having any if he will continue to be this way. my parents divorced when i was 8 and i dont want my children going through that. im just running out of clever ideas to get him to do what i want, without him noticing.
Geishawhelk Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 he has improved somewhat, but why do i have to yell and get upset before something is done about it. he tells me if i need anything to done to just tell him, but am i insane to not want to have to tell him, that he should see this on his own? No, because tbh, I have the same issues with my partner, and he's english, like me! This is the one and only thing we've clashed over, but because we both work and are in full time jobs, he has nowhere to hide or go with it. I gave him an ultimatum some time ago, and let him know in no uncertain terms that I meant it - and how! It got to the point where I told him - and I wasn't kidding - that he was a 'free Agent'. He could go his own way, because dammit, there was no way I was going to lift a finger and do it all, from that moment on. I think what played on my side was that I was absolutely completely calm and seren about it. I didn't yell, I didn't rant, rave or lose my temper. I think it scared him to see how calm I was about it all.... At one point he said to me; "Are you seriously telling me you're prepared to throw these past 4 years away?" And I quietly replied, "No. They're there to stay. I'm just insuring myself against having to do it all, for the next 40."
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 he has improved somewhat, but why do i have to yell and get upset before something is done about it. he tells me if i need anything to done to just tell him, but am i insane to not want to have to tell him, that he should see this on his own? Yes, you're expecting him to be a mind-reader and do what you want without you telling him! People have different standards when it comes to housekeeping. You just have to accept that. Until you two can sit down and rationally discuss this issue, it will continue to be an issue. In my house, the roles are reversed. I couldn't care less about having House Beautiful; as long as I would feel comfortable inviting you into my home, I'm good! My husband, however, expects the home to look like a magazine spread, which is just unreasonable imho when there's four kids living in it. So we've relaxed down to my standards--one thing that helped was when we had some friends over and they complimented the house, "I don't see how you keep this place this clean with four kids!" My husband made the mistake of saying, "You think it's clean? Gah, I think it's filthy." Then he got an earful from the other husband and had to defend his position, and the further he got into it, the more ridiculous he realized he was. Give up on the plan to trick him into doing what you want without him noticing. Just be straight with him, and maybe defend your position until you begin to see the ridiculousness in it yourself.
Angel1111 Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 My ex was English also and I don't miss him one bit. But he was also verbally abusive and that played more into it than his sloppy habits. The really bad thing is that when he moved into his own place, he was meticulously clean. Truly nauseating. It doesn't matter who's fault it is that you husband is that way he is, the fact is that's the way he is. He can make a choice to be a better person but he hasn't. But if we're going to go down the road with the 'women are women' thing, then based on that, I think he needs to be out there making the living and you can stay home all day cleaning up after him and raising his babies. I love it when men use that traditional stuff when it's all one-sided - in their favor of course. And if you decide you don't want kids at all, then he'll meet someone who does want kids, and he'll probably have an affair and leave you for her. And he'll do that because he's not getting his way. Don't ever underestimate the power of stupidity when it comes to spoiled people. So, this guy cheats and treats you with disrespect. It doesn't matter that he has good qualities - but so does everyone. This does not make the relationship. If the bad outweights the good, then you don't have anything to work with. His cheating is a huge red flag.
Enema Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 What I notice with this relationship dynamic is that the more picky person always expects the more relaxed person to suddenly change and start acting just like them. That simply doesn't happen, people are different and all the ranting and raving isn't going to change that. You "both" need to compromise in order to make this work. You need to compromise by telling him what needs to be done and when to do it - instead of expecting him to just know. He needs to compromise by doing what you tell him when you say it - instead of expecting you to do it. Gotta meet him halfway. It's not fair to simply expect him to morph into you.
whichwayisup Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 He's an old fashioned guy with certain beliefs about women. He isn't going to change, that's who he is! Sorry to say this but you have a choice to make. Accept him or break up with him. DO NOT have children with him because he isn't going to be the loving supportive husband and father you want him be. He may be a good father, a provider and all, but when it comes to helping out, doing his share, forget it.
soserious1 Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 Why would you expect a traditional Egyptian man to act like a feminist raised man from the USA?
Siciliana Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 Why would you expect a traditional Egyptian man to act like a feminist raised man from the USA? That is what I was wondering. There is no way this man will ever be what you want or need him to be in a relationship. Women in Egypt are not like women in America. And, the same goes for men. If you have kids with this man you will be miserable. However a relationship is in the beginning, is as good as it gets. It's all down hill from there, because people become who they really are, they stop trying to impress the girl once they have her and grow into a comfort zone of taking for granted all that they have. It is nearly impossible to beat the odds and actually have relationships improve.
GreenX Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 He will NOT change.. if this is not what you want for the next 50+ years then run now before it is too late. I know too well about this behavior and in my experience I can tell you that it never got better, only worse.
Author Fell_on_black_days Posted October 18, 2008 Author Posted October 18, 2008 Thank you all for your replies i really needed this 3rd party insight. and for Geisha, and you all, i would like to give you an update of what has happend recently. Since i have been living here in Egypt with him, Sharm El Sheikh to be exact, it would be an understatement to say i have been very frustrated, almost angry and aggressive at time, which i know he is not at fault for, its me living here. Now we are so close to going to the states together, and ofcourse i can wait. He has been away for 2 weeks getting some papers ready that he needs for his visa, we talk a few times a day, and 2 nights ago, he was joking on the phone, something about how he is a better than me at some things, which i know arent true. i flipped, i dont know why, but i had just had enough of his attitude of how men are better. honestly he never ever really said that, but its his actions that prove so to me. i ended up bringing up all my issues, about his infidelity, and how that in itself its a huge sign of disrespect to me, and how he thinks that since i am a woman i should be responsible for all houswork is absurd, and then i told him that i dont want to have children with him because i would end up being a married single parent. he listend and didnt inturupt me, when i told him i was starting to have doubts, and i dont want to waste both our times if we know we wont change. he became very upset and kept apologizing for what he had done, the cheating, and he knows that he is lazy and doesnt do any housework, but that he has really been trying and change doesnt happen overnight. i understood all he said, and i got that idea of him knowing what i want without me saying it, out of my head quick, you guys are right, he cant read my mind and most men dont even get the subtle hints either. he said he cared too much about me and us to let something like chores get in the way of that. which is nice, but i would like to see that put into action. we are gonna be making a big move to the states, well for him not me really, i know he will adapt quick, thats just how he is, and even though this might sound horrible of me, but deep down i know things will be better with us there because i would be having the upper hand then, its gonna be all new for him, and he would need me. ok i admit i am a control freak at times and like the power, is that so horrible of me. being this way has made me a pretty succesful business woman, but will it work in my marriage. especially that he is not a weak man. i dont want to take over everything and dominat him, but when it comes to things that i know more about or have had experience in, i expect to be heard.
openingup Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 As gently as I can, may I suggest that his reaction to your doubts has less to do with you and your relationship than it does with the possible withdrawal of his free green card?
Author Fell_on_black_days Posted October 18, 2008 Author Posted October 18, 2008 Don't think ive never thought about the green card issue, i have many many times, and if i didnt i sure had enough people to remind me of it. but i really wouldnt lie or cheat myself like that, and i know it isnt about the green card, he didnt really want to go to the states initially but after my failure at trying to live in egypt didnt work, we didnt see any other choice. besides he is very well off here has his own business and is doing well, why would he wanna go to the states. so i really dont see that as a possibility, that that is why he acted the way he did. i just want to know if he really means it and is gonna follow what he said or not, i guess i have to wait and see.
jj33 Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 if he moves to the US there will be big financial ramifications for him which he has likely thought of and is planning for. The cost to him of moving there is far bigger than the advantage of getting a green card. Indeed he would be crazy to get a green card if he is English. He doesnt need one after all hes an EU citizen having a green card is no prize, and its a potential headache for him financially Feel free to PM me if you wish
jj33 Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 But as you likely know from living there dont have children in egypt if you have questions getting children out of the country if things go wrong between you can be tricky.
CaterpillarGirl Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Why not sit down with him, outline together what you two feel each of your responsibilities should be and what the consequences will be for him/her not pulling his/her share? For example, if he is supposed to do the dishes on Saturday and he doesn't do them, he pays you $10/gets up early the next day/walks to work/whatever. This may be a little juvenile, but it sounds like you guys need a basic framework for how to deal with these issues.
whichwayisup Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 but deep down i know things will be better with us there because i would be having the upper hand then, How so? He is still going to have his outlook and his belief system - Old fashioned ways of how a woman should be and their place in the household. He is NOT going to change his way of thinking - This is WHO he is. Going back to the States won't change that, if anything, he'll get worse and try to control you in other ways (who you can see, when you can leave the house etc) and plus he could easily cheat on you again. Sorry to be a downer here, but you really need to think this through.
jj33 Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 FOBD it looks like I got it wrong and he is Egyptian and not English (not sure where I got this from) Be very careful. If he is still so rooted in his cultural traditions these things arent going to change overnight just because he moves to the US. There are also awful horror stories of people having children and one parent removing the child to their home country when things go bad and the US parent being unable to get custody of the child. You are living there you know how deep these cultural traditions can run. Even if you are on "your turf" you will still be in "his house" in his mind when you are back in the US and his beliefs will not automatically change with his physical location. If the cracks are so apparent now they will only get worse later when he is in a "permissive" place from his perspective like the US. Ive known several people in your position and it hasnt been pretty when the man was so tied to his own cultural norms which were very different than the woman's. Sorry to throw cold water on it but it looks like an accident waiting to happen.
Author Fell_on_black_days Posted October 20, 2008 Author Posted October 20, 2008 JJ33, i appreiciate your honest replies. yes ofcourse i am aware of the cutlure here, and how woomen here pretty much have no rights whatsoever. i think i might have made him out to be worst then he seems, yes he is lazy around the house an it does annoy me, and we get into fights about it. but if i am seeing a slight change is that a good sign, and should i continue doing whati m doing, and wait for him to continue to change? ofcourse moving to the states doesnt mean he will just drop all his cultural beliefs, and he was never one to tie me down to the house all the time, then again my social life in egypt is nothing compared to the states. and who knows how he will react when he goes to the states, its a huuuuuge diff then Egypt for sure. children is not something i am even considering right now, not only because i want to be absolutly sure of him, but i have been away from my country for a year, putting my life on hold i have to make up for lost time, and get financially stable and on my feet again, im not one to depend on a man for cash, even though he will be working as well, i still like to have my own savings on the side. so children is not gonna happen anytime soon, i come from divorced parents and i wouldnt want to put my kids through that. whats really crazy, which im sure none of you have figured out, is that im actually half egyptian myself, my father is. but i was born and raised in the states, and my father being egyptian is nothing like these traditional men ive seen here. he admits me that he changed alot since he moved to the states some 30 years ago, and being married to an american woman (my mom) has opend his mind about many things. i.e: i had boyfriends and moved out when i was 20. i dont consider myself egyptian in the sense of the culture and old fashioned traditions they have, but i am still proud of my heritage. so im hoping, like my father, my husband will change his views on such issues after moving to the states, and seeing what the women's role there is like.
jj33 Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Mmm. I hope that works but seeing your other thread on infidelity it sounds like the jury is out. My ex is from a Muslim country and he is very western in his thinking. My guess is that your father was not wedded to the inferiority of women when he met your mother. And not inclined to stray and think it was OK. Your husband while probably a wonderful man in many ways sounds like his views on the relationships between men and women are much different. It sounds like you really love him and if you are putting off having children, then so what if he gets a green card out of the deal? If the best move for you and for both of you as a couple is to go to the US then maybe that will give you a better environment to shape a more equal relationship.
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