Manipulating me through the kids (LOOOONG)

[mistresswchildren]

He's still "in love with me." This is what he says. This is what he said to my face this past Sunday. He met with me and the kids. He begged me to let him meet his daughter. I couldn't say no because I thought he meant it when he said he cared. Now, I think I know better.

 

We talked about a lot. I got some of my "closure" that no one seems to believe in, and then he starts with the whole "I love you" crap. He said that he made a decision to stick with his wife, and he is going to stick with it, but he is still in love with me????? Someone, please explain this to me. Seeing him did set me back in my "recovery." I know that, but I'm not stupid either. He kissed me, and for a split second I kissed him back. Then, the alarm bells went off in my head. What the h*** am I doing? Do I really want to go back to being the OW? Don't get me wrong, as long as he keeps telling me he is in love with me, I am the OW, but just in an EA. I won't talk about my feelings with him, but he knows without thinking that I am still in love with him in a lot of ways.

 

The problem is that this will always be the way things are between us until I am "over" him. I don't know when that day will be, and unless there is NC, I know that day will never come. How do you have NC when you have two kids? What on earth am I supposed to do about all of this. I just want him to say that he doesn't love me and that he wants his marriage. Is that really too much to ask? He keeps saying, "Well, things are good for now, but we will see what the next six months will bring." He is trying to have control over me, and while he is affecting my emotions, I will not allow him to know that.

 

Now, my biggest issue is that he says he has turned a new leaf and that he will not lie to his wife any longer. This is not exactly the truth. I asked him if he told his wife that he had seen his children. He answered by telling me not yet because she was having a rough week. What kind of bullsh** excuse is that??? She will be having a worse week the week that he tells her that he omitted a huge thing (if he ever does). I have promised myself that I will not be the one to tell her any of this because I am not trying to steal him away from her. I don't want to be that woman. I do not want to put a huge dent in their marriage yet again. I have done enough, and I will not get involved again.

 

I guess all I can say is what a lying, cheating, manipulating, a**hole! You don't tell someone else that you are in love with them when you are in love with your wife. You don't kiss someone else and then LIE about it yet again. I try not to put myself in situations where we will be alone together, but he told me she would be there as well. Again, a lie. He showed up ALONE. This was not up to me. I wanted him to see his kids. I wanted him to at the least see the faces of the two little people that he seems to try to forget. They are still here. I have been doing this on my own, and he needs to realize that just because he forgets about them for a while, they still breath.

 

He played "Daddy" fairly well, but again, I realize what a great actor he is. He promised our son he would call all the time and that he would see him again soon. He tossed our daughter in the air and played with her until she laughed so hard she had the hiccups. He cried when my son yelled "Daddy, stay! Stay, Daddy, stay!" He does all this to manipulate me. I know it in my heart of hearts. He just wants to set me aside for the rainy day. I'm not that woman. I refuse to be that woman again!

 

I won't lie, all of this hurts, but I'm done being the person who gets dirt piled on them. I was doing well. I was trying to forget about him. Now, I am back at square one. All the hurt just came flooding back. How do I recover when there is no way for me to keep him out of my life forever because of the kids? Today, when he called I handed the phone to my son. He talked to his father, then hung up on him. When he called back I passed the phone back to my son. Then this worthless man tells my son that he needed to talk to "Mommy." I bought it hook, line, and sinker. I took the phone and started talking to him all over again. At first it was small talk, then he started in on "us" again. He said he didn't want to give me hope, but he really wanted to be a family with us. He wasn't going to leave his wife, but if things were to "not work out," that he hoped I would be there. What kind of idiot does he think I am?? Am I over this? NO! Will I wait for him in case there is a chance that some time in the next ten years he leaves her? NOOOOO! While my heart still loves him at times, I hate this man!

[GreenEyedLady]

How do you have NC when you have two kids? What on earth am I supposed to do about all of this.

 

Why can you not have NC? Weren't you the one who wanted their father to see them, not the other way around? He is now using that to stay in your life.

 

You are basically telling yourself that you have to stay in it. YOU DO NOT. Whether you have children or not. Read over at SI and how they deal with OC and the OW. There is often NO CONTACT between the XOW and the WS. The W is often running the show.

 

This man wants you to wait around for him until he decides he might leave his W. And he has 2 children with you. Apparently, his family (yours and his and his and hers) means nothing to him and now you are subjecting your children to his continued rejection. You and your children deserve better. Why are you settling for this?

 

And don't say because he's their father. A father is more than a sperm donor.

[LakesideDream]

MwC, You are well up on the horns of one of society's most thorny problems. Todays America, (and yes the world) is rapidly filling with single parent households.

 

Twenty years ago, my children two grammer school classes (7-8) over sixty kids total had exactly three intact nuclear families. The rest were roughly split even between "blended" families and single parent families.

 

At the time I thought this was a tragity. At the time I was an almost 40 year old man busting ass to be a dad. Frankly I succeeded. I was married and a full time day until after both children were adults (legally) had left the nest.

 

By having two kids with your MM you knowingly brought two kids into the world knowing they wouldn't have a full time dad. Even if your MM left to be with you, he had children with his wife that needed his attention and effort.

 

MwC, you know I love 'ya, and believe that you are a strong and brave lady. Your young, barely "cooked", and doing a good responsible job with your chillins despite your youth and inexperiance, and I appaude your effort. Sadly, the job you signed up for is one of the most difficult that you could have chosen.

 

Keep it in your head that the exMM is a snake in a mans body. He will lie, lie, lie, and cheat until the sun comes up to get what he wants.. which is more time inside your big girl panties. Don't pay him any attention. He is a fool who is ruled by his penis, and his need for drama.

 

Do what you must. Do the best you can as a lady, and a mother every day and go to bed with a clear mind and a heart full of pride knowing another day has passed, and you've done your best. Past that, there is nothing more you can do..... except....

 

Chose your next man much more carefully.

[signedin2008]

Then this worthless man tells my son that he needed to talk to "Mommy." I bought it hook, line, and sinker. I took the phone and started talking to him all over again. At first it was small talk, then he started in on "us" again.

 

I am dissapointed in you, especially the part where you kissed him back.

[Reggie]

Holy smokes> How'd you get yourself into this convoluted mess? Let me guess-true love, eh?

I think you just need to make sure you get the kids their child support and find a new guy or be alone. What a strange, twisted relationship you have with this MM.

[Owl]

GEL gave you EXACTLY the same advice I was going to give.

 

How many times have you been reminded by LS'ers here that he DOESN'T have to be part of the children's lives in order for them to be happy and healthy??????

 

YOU are the one insisting that he be part of their lives...NO ONE ELSE IS!!!!!!!!!!

 

This isn't difficult, its not complex, its not hard to understand.

 

YOU are choosing to complicate YOUR life, and that of your children...by INSISTING that he be a part of it.

 

That's all this boils down to.

 

If you want child support...go the lawyers, let THEM interact with him.

 

And other than that....GET THIS MAN OUT OF YOUR LIFE.

 

Or...choose to be the other woman forever.

 

You've heard this over and over, but you refuse to listen.

 

Sorry MWC...I don't see how anyone here can help you if you refuse to consider anything outside of what you WANT.

 

I've got no further advice to offer you. Just remember...you are exactly where you're at right now for ONE reason...not because you HAVE to be...but because you CHOOSE to be.

[mistresswchildren]

While I respect all of your comments, I would like to at least defend myself by saying that I know what it is like to not have a parent in my life. For all intensive purposes, I didn't have either of my parents in my life. My parents were divorced when I was fairly young. My mother tried to keep my father from us. We were very angry with her for that. When my father eventually took custody of the four of us, my mother was not exactly mentally fit to be in our lives. I was angry about that for a long time. While with my father, he made some poor decisions. Instead of being my Dad, he chose his career and forgot about his children. He neglected us in a lot of ways. He provided all of the material things that we could ever ask for, but the emotional support was not there.

 

While I do not blame my parents for my situation, I must explain that all four of us ended up pregnant before marriage. All four of us now have two children, and only one of us is married at this time. My two younger sisters have two different fathers for their two children (two kids a piece). Now, I understand that we all make our own choices in life, but it is somewhat interesting that life turned out this way for all four of us. I do believe that not having our parents in our lives helped shape what we did later in life.

 

This is what I am afraid of for my children. This is probably why I push so hard to give them better than what I had. If this man has it in him to be a father to his legitimate child, then in my mind that means he has the ability. His ability to be a parent is what I am looking for. I am looking to find out if he is capable of being a father to them or not. The only way to find that out is to give him the chance. When he, with no prompting from me, asked to see his children, I had to give both him and my children that opportunity. I realize that not every one here believes that what I did was right, but as far as that goes, I know that I did was right.

 

What he has done is wrong, but what I did was right. I gave him the opportunity to be in their lives. Right now, that will not happen without my involvement. What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to give my children over to a man that they don't really know? Am I supposed to just let him have time alone with him when I am not sure if he is capable of doing the job? I know I am doing what is right. I know that. I guess, no one else has to know that but me.

[KismetGirl]

While I respect all of your comments, I would like to at least defend myself by saying that I know what it is like to not have a parent in my life. For all intensive purposes, I didn't have either of my parents in my life. My parents were divorced when I was fairly young. My mother tried to keep my father from us. We were very angry with her for that. When my father eventually took custody of the four of us, my mother was not exactly mentally fit to be in our lives. I was angry about that for a long time. While with my father, he made some poor decisions. Instead of being my Dad, he chose his career and forgot about his children. He neglected us in a lot of ways. He provided all of the material things that we could ever ask for, but the emotional support was not there.

 

While I do not blame my parents for my situation, I must explain that all four of us ended up pregnant before marriage. All four of us now have two children, and only one of us is married at this time. My two younger sisters have two different fathers for their two children (two kids a piece). Now, I understand that we all make our own choices in life, but it is somewhat interesting that life turned out this way for all four of us. I do believe that not having our parents in our lives helped shape what we did later in life.

 

This is what I am afraid of for my children. This is probably why I push so hard to give them better than what I had. If this man has it in him to be a father to his legitimate child, then in my mind that means he has the ability. His ability to be a parent is what I am looking for. I am looking to find out if he is capable of being a father to them or not. The only way to find that out is to give him the chance. When he, with no prompting from me, asked to see his children, I had to give both him and my children that opportunity. I realize that not every one here believes that what I did was right, but as far as that goes, I know that I did was right.

 

What he has done is wrong, but what I did was right. I gave him the opportunity to be in their lives. Right now, that will not happen without my involvement. What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to give my children over to a man that they don't really know? Am I supposed to just let him have time alone with him when I am not sure if he is capable of doing the job? I know I am doing what is right. I know that. I guess, no one else has to know that but me.

 

 

Listen, no matter what anyone says, unless this guy is abusive to you or your kids, your issues with him are seperate than their relationship with their father. If he can be a good dad to his otehr kids, he can be a dad to yours as well. My parents split up and no matter what problems my parents had, you better believe my mother never said ONE bad word abotu my father in front of or to us kids. She encouraged us to see him no matter what pain she might have been feeling. She emailed him and called him all the time to fill him in on what was going on with our lives. She sacrificed her own emotions at times so that we could know and love our dad, and i thank her every day for doing that for me.

 

Whatever pain you feel by seeing him, it's something you have to deal with. NC is fine and dandy when you have nothing else connecting you, but you have TWO children with this man, who deserve to know and see their dad no matter how much it bothers mom. You're going to have to learn to ignore his comments, his wishy washy claims of "love", and his bulls*** about "maybe" making you an option if his other marriage doesn't work, which is all bollocks. The only important thing here is that your kids maintain a good relationship with their dad and with you, or they will resent you both when they grow up.

 

You did the right thing, as hard as it must be for you, and I commend you for that, I really do, it must be hard to hear all the crap he feeds you, but parents sacrifice for their children, right? You'll find someone else one day that you like and they'll be happy to see mommy in a good relationship, but a step father shouldnt take the place of a father, unless, ike i said, he was emotionally or physially abusing someone. If he's making an effort to be a good dad then you owe it to your kids to give that relationship between them and their dad a chance to foster, or you'll go the rest of your life thinking that you prevented your own kids from having a chance to know their dad, right? good luck, hugs :)

[Reggie]

It's not as simple as you make it. This is not a situation where they will be dealing with a normal father. He is a liar and cheater, no? And, his wife wants him to be uninvolved. So, he'll be conflicted as heck, a mess.

I'd think your kids would be confused as heck in trying to reconcile values of honesty with having such a dishonest role model. What possessed you to have kids with a married guy? Did you not see this as a potential problem.

[jwi71]

This is what I am afraid of for my children. This is probably why I push so hard to give them better than what I had. If this man has it in him to be a father to his legitimate child, then in my mind that means he has the ability. His ability to be a parent is what I am looking for. I am looking to find out if he is capable of being a father to them or not. The only way to find that out is to give him the chance. When he, with no prompting from me, asked to see his children, I had to give both him and my children that opportunity. I realize that not every one here believes that what I did was right, but as far as that goes, I know that I did was right.

 

You are right. You cannot deny him access to his biological children unless previously mandated in a court of law that he not have access. Otherwise you expose yourself to suit and the possible loss of your children. You did the legal thing.

 

You are wrong too. There should be no doubt that a father wants to "be a father". If a "man" must prove his parenting chops - or be given the opportunity to prove such - he is neither man nor father. A real father would leave no doubt. A man would place the needs of his children above his own. Because of the need to "prove himself" as father - he is not father material. GEL is right.

 

Because you have children by him, NC is impossible. In perpetuity. The needs of the children outweigh yours or his. You must rise above, you must place whatever hatred for him you have for the sake of the children.

 

You can find happiness. Your children can lead normal lives. They can have a daddy (your unmet H) and a biological father too. But you have remember the past and how he treated you. How he must "prove" himself as father.

 

Yes MwC...many men will not give a crap if you children. Single parents date and marry every day. You can too.

 

What he has done is wrong, but what I did was right. I gave him the opportunity to be in their lives. Right now, that will not happen without my involvement. What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to give my children over to a man that they don't really know? Am I supposed to just let him have time alone with him when I am not sure if he is capable of doing the job? I know I am doing what is right. I know that. I guess, no one else has to know that but me.

 

Good start. Next time, don't kiss the SoB. Learn from your mistakes. Continue to gather your strength.

 

It is impossible to see tomorrow if you continually look into the past.

[KismetGirl]

It's not as simple as you make it. This is not a situation where they will be dealing with a normal father. He is a liar and cheater, no? And, his wife wants him to be uninvolved. So, he'll be conflicted as heck, a mess.

I'd think your kids would be confused as heck in trying to reconcile values of honesty with having such a dishonest role model. What possessed you to have kids with a married guy? Did you not see this as a potential problem.

 

 

Yes, we are speculating on all sorts of potential problems, but i think to come outright and tell this woman she should cut her kids off from their father is also a bit hasty, no? I still dont understand why people here cant fathom tht because someone lied to their wife about having sex with another woman, that this makes the person in some way this horrible human being with regards to their ability to be a parent.

 

my father cheated onmy mother, my parents divorced, but christ, he loves me with all his heart and it didnt make hi a bad father....a bad husband maybe....

[jj33]

MWC - I have great respect for you. In a million years so long as abortion is leagl in the USA (which it may not be for long...) I would NEVER have the children of some lying deceitful bastartd who tore my heart apart.

 

But you did. And you are being a great mother to them.

 

But what are you doing with respect to their father? YOU ARE REPEATING YOUR OWN CHILDHOOD - you had great disappointment with both your parents. And rather than accepting that this man who you loved is the devil incarnate, emotionally abusive to you, disrespectful neglectful (remember worrying you would have to sue him to get insurance etc etc)

 

you are trying to get over your own childhood hurts by hoping against hope that the biological father of your children will be a better parent to them than you feel yours were to you.

 

I can imagine it hurts looking back on the failings of your parents. However that is something you need to heal. Dont inflict it on your kids and dont inflict it on yourself. You have been through enough.

 

This man is giong to be a far WORSE father than yours was to you. After what you experienced, is that what you really want for your own children?

[KismetGirl]

MWC - I have great respect for you. In a million years so long as abortion is leagl in the USA (which it may not be for long...) I would NEVER have the children of some lying deceitful bastartd who tore my heart apart.

 

But you did. And you are being a great mother to them.

 

But what are you doing with respect to their father? YOU ARE REPEATING YOUR OWN CHILDHOOD - you had great disappointment with both your parents. And rather than accepting that this man who you loved is the devil incarnate, emotionally abusive to you, disrespectful neglectful (remember worrying you would have to sue him to get insurance etc etc)

 

you are trying to get over your own childhood hurts by hoping against hope that the biological father of your children will be a better parent to them than you feel yours were to you.

 

I can imagine it hurts looking back on the failings of your parents. However that is something you need to heal. Dont inflict it on your kids and dont inflict it on yourself. You have been through enough.

 

This man is giong to be a far WORSE father than yours was to you. After what you experienced, is that what you really want for your own children?

 

Yes but.....she should give it a chance at least. These kids already know the guy, its not like someone they've never met. What's she supposed to say when they ask when can we see daddy again, and she's like, sorry guys, mama ain't taking you to see him ever again cause he's a lying dirt bag.

 

Maybe if she'd never let them meet him, but they already have a relationship started. Might as well give him a chance to prove himself than be hasty and cut off a man from his children. Every kid has a right to know their dad , barring total abuse, but she said she wanted to try it, i think she's aware of the things he's trying when he says certain things to her, so let him try to prove he's a good dad. If he's using the kids just to get to her, it wont hurt them any more now than a few months from now ....they shoudl all at least get a chance...right?

 

I think he should let his W in on what going on. That might clear up alot about his true intentions here in being a dad. If he's hellbent on never letting his W know, that would seem sketchy to me. You cant have a relationship with your kids and hide them from your wife for ever, thats just stupid.

[bentnotbroken]

The one thing that I see MWC that you missed, is that they have you. They aren't you as a child and you aren't your parents. Do you intend to abandon your children? Do you intend to become emotionally unavailable to them? Do you plan to make them pay for your childhood by trying to place a person without a loving bone in his body in their lives and call him dad, just because he donated the sperm?

 

I am not a fan of affairs or of having children with a married man, but that is all water under the bridge and deserve to have the best, he ain't it. He is emotionally abusive, a liar, and a manipulator. What can he teach them? How to pick a cheating husband? How to use your children to manipulate the situation to your advantage or his he going to teach them how to be expert liars?

 

You say you have turned your life around and wan to be a good role model for your children. Then why do you need him? Part of being a good role model is knowing when they are going to be hurt, even if it is by a blood relative. You must protect them, this is job one. Until he makes some positive changes in his life, he shouldn't be in theirs. He will use them against you, the key, he will use them.

[jj33]

Yes but.....she should give it a chance at least. These kids already know the guy, its not like someone they've never met. What's she supposed to say when they ask when can we see daddy again, and she's like, sorry guys, mama ain't taking you to see him ever again cause he's a lying dirt bag.

 

Maybe if she'd never let them meet him, but they already have a relationship started. Might as well give him a chance to prove himself than be hasty and cut off a man from his children. Every kid has a right to know their dad , barring total abuse, but she said she wanted to try it, i think she's aware of the things he's trying when he says certain things to her, so let him try to prove he's a good dad. If he's using the kids just to get to her, it wont hurt them any more now than a few months from now ....they shoudl all at least get a chance...right?

 

I think he should let his W in on what going on. That might clear up alot about his true intentions here in being a dad. If he's hellbent on never letting his W know, that would seem sketchy to me. You cant have a relationship with your kids and hide them from your wife for ever, thats just stupid.

 

Kismet I dont know if you have gone back and read MWC's earlier posts you came on the scene after alot of the story had been told. He is a dirtbag. No other word for it.

 

When there is a dirtbag that needs to be evicted from your life you tell the children sorry honey daddy loves you but he cant come hed like to see you but he cant.

 

End of story. This is no fairytale. And you know I am usually pretty openminded about people doing what they feel is best for them. But not with this guy.

 

Might the children be upset when they are older? Maybe. But when they get old enough to be intellecually upset about it they will understand. its MWC's 'duty to protect them from bad men like this guy just as sure as its her duty to protect them from the bad men who lure them with candy on the playground. Even if she holds a soft spot for him in her heart.

 

And as for letting his W know she knows and wants nothing to do with MWC or her children and wants her H to have nothing to do with them. Its not a simple story. Its very very ugly

[Billie63]

Mistress I totally understand that you have to give him the chance to become a father to these kids, whatever's gone on in the past.

 

However, I suspect when he realises you are not part of the deal the fatherly visits will stop. How about taking them to see him but have a friend or relative with you so he can't start all the love stuff?

 

Be honest, a part of you must relish he declarations of love - you're only human.

 

Sadly I don't believe he'll come good and I think your babies deserve better than to be treated like some dirty secret.

 

I've no doubt he'll let you and those kids down but you need to see this through so that when you stop all contact you'll know you gave it your best shot.

[not_clever]

MWC you really don't need this guy in your childrens or your life. I am in a similar position to yourself I have a OC with exmm. When it first all came out he ran straight to me. I was wise enough to direct him back to his wife. He tried the same as your exmm is doing I cut all contact,changed my number and will only deal with him through my lawyer. My daughter is as well adjusted as a child of her age can be. Unfortunatly she will go to school with the COM their is 3 of them unless they move away {fingers crossed}. Good luck and remember you don't really know this man everything you had was based on lies his lies. He will cause you and your children heartache if you allow him too. Cutting all ties was the best thing I did. keep your chin up.

[KATANYA]

Separate the two issues:

 

1. The A, MM's role in your life as a partner, lover and/or ex; and

 

2. The role your MM has to be a parent/father to HIS children.

 

If you are serious about wanting to terminate the A and ongoing situations that may lead to innapropriate and harmful contact (harmful in that it is emotionally destroying you), then why not make a long term plan for #2 that would go something like this:

 

*Set out a schedule of visitation for the children that is to be accessed away from you, ie. supervised by someone you trust (until you are confident that, as you say, he has proven himself as a dad). He can come to your home to visit but instead of you being there, have one of your sisters, a family member or a friend there. Let him have his 'alone' time with his children. You do not have to be there - your children should not be seeing you all as a 'family' when you are not. He is their father and they will have time with him. You are their mother and they have time with you. But the four of you do not need to have 'family' time together because you are not a family!

 

*If he does not abide by the visitation schedule that you have both agreed to, simply apply to the courts for a custody arrangement that would clearly outline visitation, access and support

 

*Correspondence regarding events, happenings or kids needs can be done via e-mail or text most of the time. When you need to meet face to face do it somewhere public or with someone else present (ie. his wife)

 

*If its an option, write a letter to his W... not about you and MM but about your hopes for her support with the children. Tell her you are sorry this situation has come about but her husband has requested access to the children and you want her blessing for these relationships to happen. I would personally try to bond with her over maternal issues because nothing will drive him further away from the 'i love you' saga than knowing you and she are communicating etc. You and W need to establish boundaries, comfort zones and rules........if she is capable and willing to have these children in her life.

 

*Finally, I would tell MM that whatever you had is over. For the sake of your children, and because they mean more than you and he do, you cannot keep moving on this rollercoaster because it is time consuming, emotionally draining and destructive. It takes away from your time and ability to be a great mom! Tell him you are prepared to co-parent but are not going to entertain any more advances. Each and every one will be reported to his wife. Zero tolerance!!!

 

I wish you strength and luck......

[mistresswchildren]

I spoke with him again today, and I yelled at him finally. I told him that this wasn't some flighty fancy, and that he was either in this to be a dad, or out of it completely. The excuses about work being really busy right now started, and I told him that there are no acceptable excuses when it came to the kids. Either he wants in or he wants out.

 

I then took it one step further and told him that if these children were not a "dirty little secret," then he needed to speak with his wife about EVERYTHING. If he is to prove to me that he wants to be in their lives because he is a "changed man," then he needs to prove that first with his wife. He needs to tell her about meeting our children. He needs to be absolutely honest about what went on. That is the first step in him convincing me that he wants these kids in his life. By making his intentions known to his wife, he includes her in his decision, which is something that he has not done before.

 

As far as she is concerned, she wants nothing to do with them. That is fine by me for now, but at some point in time, that will have to change. I realize that the wound is still there. I realize that my children would be a reminder of his infidelities, but her involvement is necessary for him to actually be in their lives. If they go for visitation, who is going to be there? Unless she decides to pack up and leave every time he is around them, she will eventually be in their lives to some extent. The more she pushes against this, the worse off her marriage will be. If she truly forgives him, then she will do what is right for both the children and her husband (if this is indeed what he really wants). I am waiting for the day when she will come to this understanding.

 

I cannot talk to her. She refuses. No matter how much I would like to be able to talk to her about all of this, she is still unable to do that. That is her right. I have helped cause her pain, and she is just not ready right now for all of this. I still worry about her being around the kids, and I would like to at least express my concerns to her so that she can tell me if she will be alright with all of this or not. Maybe, she just needs a little more time. I'm not sure. I am NOT trying to steal her husband, and I think if we talked about the kids, she might be able to see that, but I'm uncertain. I can only control me.

[jj33]

MWC - I know this is very tough but I think you have it a bit backwards. Look at what you wrote:

 

"As far as she is concerned, she wants nothing to do with them. That is fine by me for now, but at some point in time, that will have to change. I realize that the wound is still there. I realize that my children would be a reminder of his infidelities, but her involvement is necessary for him to actually be in their lives. If they go for visitation, who is going to be there? Unless she decides to pack up and leave every time he is around them, she will eventually be in their lives to some extent. The more she pushes against this, the worse off her marriage will be. If she truly forgives him, then she will do what is right for both the children and her husband (if this is indeed what he really wants). I am waiting for the day when she will come to this understanding.

 

I cannot talk to her. She refuses. No matter how much I would like to be able to talk to her about all of this, she is still unable to do that. That is her right. I have helped cause her pain, and she is just not ready right now for all of this. I still worry about her being around the kids, and I would like to at least express my concerns to her so that she can tell me if she will be alright with all of this or not. Maybe, she just needs a little more time. I'm not sure. I am NOT trying to steal her husband, and I think if we talked about the kids, she might be able to see that, but I'm uncertain. I can only control me."

 

I say you have it backwards because as long as she is against it, YOUR CHILDREN have a problem if you allow it to be a problem by continuing to want him in their lives.

 

It sounds like she allowed MM to stay in her home if and only if you and the children are history. How does that allow him to act as a real father to them (biology aside)?

 

Every time she hears about or sees those children precious as they are to you, she will be reminded of her husbands transgressions. She may NEVER EVER give in. It could be years and your children will be in the middle.

 

Think of this as compared to your own experience with your father... At least your father had material comfort to give to you. This man has neither finances nor emotional stability nor any sense of right and wrong or compassion for other people, plus they will be sucked into an ugly ugly drama. And what about you? Hes already letting you and the kids down. You say you are doing the right thing for the children but are you really. I think again with no disrespect that you are trying to come to a place where you feel that being with this man was not a total mistake. That you saw something in him that was good and that he will prove it by being a good father.

 

You have 2 wonderful children. I think your best bet is to view him as a sperm donor cut him off and cut your losses. When the children are older then you can see where things stand.

 

If he is so intent on visitation, let HIM hire a lawyer and go to court to get visitation rights. Why is it all on you? Its not unless you allow it to be. Your only problem is getting suppport payments and insurance from him.

 

Simply refuse to allow him to be in contact with the children unless he and his W prove to you that they are intersted in coparenting. If they arent then you have your answer.

[NoIDidn't]

I spoke with him again today, and I yelled at him finally. I told him that this wasn't some flighty fancy, and that he was either in this to be a dad, or out of it completely. The excuses about work being really busy right now started, and I told him that there are no acceptable excuses when it came to the kids. Either he wants in or he wants out.

 

I then took it one step further and told him that if these children were not a "dirty little secret," then he needed to speak with his wife about EVERYTHING. If he is to prove to me that he wants to be in their lives because he is a "changed man," then he needs to prove that first with his wife. He needs to tell her about meeting our children. He needs to be absolutely honest about what went on. That is the first step in him convincing me that he wants these kids in his life. By making his intentions known to his wife, he includes her in his decision, which is something that he has not done before.

 

As far as she is concerned, she wants nothing to do with them. That is fine by me for now, but at some point in time, that will have to change. I realize that the wound is still there. I realize that my children would be a reminder of his infidelities, but her involvement is necessary for him to actually be in their lives. If they go for visitation, who is going to be there? Unless she decides to pack up and leave every time he is around them, she will eventually be in their lives to some extent. The more she pushes against this, the worse off her marriage will be. If she truly forgives him, then she will do what is right for both the children and her husband (if this is indeed what he really wants). I am waiting for the day when she will come to this understanding.

 

I cannot talk to her. She refuses. No matter how much I would like to be able to talk to her about all of this, she is still unable to do that. That is her right. I have helped cause her pain, and she is just not ready right now for all of this. I still worry about her being around the kids, and I would like to at least express my concerns to her so that she can tell me if she will be alright with all of this or not. Maybe, she just needs a little more time. I'm not sure. I am NOT trying to steal her husband, and I think if we talked about the kids, she might be able to see that, but I'm uncertain. I can only control me.

 

 

MwC

 

You are shooting yourself in the foot here. You can't have it both ways. When you AND he are both WELL AWARE of the fact that SHE is not interested in the kids, you are signing them up for an A. He knows this and that's why he is sneaking around to see them hoping to placate you and keep her in the dark. Every time you allow him into your home under the guise of "seeing his kids", you are disrespecting her and their marriage directly considering you know her feelings on this. Unacceptable. For you AND for him. It would be disengenuous of you to claim it to be more of his responsibility to respect his marriage and W when you already know where she stands and still chose to put your kids into that position.

 

I know you want a father for your children but you can't make the woman change her mind to get what you want. Isn't that what got you guys in this predicament to begin with (no offense)? You have no power over her or over the time that it takes for her to get over it (which is really insensitive thinking, I might add). She may NEVER get over it and your kids may not be able to have a relationship with their biological dad until after they are over 18. That is the reality. You are still living the fantasy.

 

Sorry. I know it seems like I am blaming you. I am not. If you read through my posts you will see where I told of my own personal experience with this being the child of children in your position. You can't say "I don't want to steal him" but then steal time that you know she doesn't want to give freely for your kids. This is not good for your kids. My parents are very messed up (hurt, feeling rejected, unable to trust people fully) because of the very thing that you are trying to do right now.

 

The right thing to do for your kids is to talk to them about the reality of who their father is (someone else's husband and father first - its the reality and they will not be his priority, sorry) AND to talk to her about your desire for them to at least know their father a little. She might budge, she might not.

 

The real losers are the kids. No matter what ultimately happens.

 

((MwC))

[jj33]

MWC I think the point of all this is you cant force him to be someone he is not and you cant force his wife to accept your children. No matter how much you want your children to know their father, the price at which any contact will come is very hight both to them and to you and to date it seems like it is not going to be positive.

 

Sure the kids love having a father and seeing him when he is around but he is a disappointment and tho people can change he doesnt seem like a good candidate for change. And as NID pointed out he is keeping you a secret. In the long run that is going to be very damaging to your childrens self esteem and to yours.

 

I cant imagine how hard it is to put someone who fathered your beautiful children behind you. It must be one of the most painful things you would ever have to do. But it may just be the best thing you can do for you and your children.

 

Big hugs

[noreply110]

MWC, I have followed your story for awhile, and I would like to throw in my two cents. It seems your wish is to have your MM act as a father, while allowing yourself to move on. There is a way to do that, and it was touched on briefly in these replies.

 

Go to court. Get an order of visitiation. Since your children are so young, have it be supervised visitation. Take the guess work out of this. Set up a schedule, make the children available during his time, and make them unavailable when it is NOT his time.

 

I understand that you are confused, and frustrated and sad and lonely, and seeing him with the kids fills a place in your heart that hurts when he isn't there. I get it. But it is NOT helping you later. Do this the correct way. Contacting his wife or hearing her threats have nothing to do with you. That is his marriage. If he wants to lie to her, that is his business.

 

You have a business relationship with your MM. The business is your children. Go to court, set a schedule and be done with this drama.

[jj33]

MWC, I have followed your story for awhile, and I would like to throw in my two cents. It seems your wish is to have your MM act as a father, while allowing yourself to move on. There is a way to do that, and it was touched on briefly in these replies.

 

Go to court. Get an order of visitiation. Since your children are so young, have it be supervised visitation. Take the guess work out of this. Set up a schedule, make the children available during his time, and make them unavailable when it is NOT his time.

 

I understand that you are confused, and frustrated and sad and lonely, and seeing him with the kids fills a place in your heart that hurts when he isn't there. I get it. But it is NOT helping you later. Do this the correct way. Contacting his wife or hearing her threats have nothing to do with you. That is his marriage. If he wants to lie to her, that is his business.

 

You have a business relationship with your MM. The business is your children. Go to court, set a schedule and be done with this drama.

 

No Reply I agree with you in spirit. But it is not MWCs place to get an order of visitation. It is MMs.

 

SHE spend the money (which she doesnt have) getting an order of visiation FOR him when his W doesnt want him to visit???

 

That doesnt seem to make a lot of sense. I dont know exactly how these things work, but if HE doesnt go to court with her or on his own this could I think set MWC up for a situation where he is allowed say every other saturday with the children and she and her aunt or whoever who is supposed to be there with them wait and wait and wait... and maybe MM will show up maybe not depending on what his W says, depending on his whim...

 

This guy wants to show up and be daddy as and when it suits him and when his W allows him out to play.

 

I think MWC is throwing good money after bad if she spends her own money going to get an order for visitiation for someone who had to be practically forced to pony up for medical insurance.

 

Im not saying she should discourage him from visiting but I think she assumes WAY too much if she thinks he is going go along with a court designated schedule that she instigates. he is going to have a million reasons why it has to be different and she will have wasted her time and her energy and her money.

 

let him be a big boy and show he is serious. Stop doing everything for him. Stop dragging him to play a role he may be incapable of playing. Let him show you he wants to do it. The only thing he is required to do is to pay support and he doesnt seem to be doing that too willingly.

 

Asking for the rest is a big ask. he has to do it willingly.

[jwi71]

I don't have too much background on this but MWC - have you seen a lawyer? A family law attorney isn't just for marriages in divorce - they handle support and visitation issues as well.

 

If money is an issue, ask for pro bono work. Approach the local courts and ask them for guidance. I would be shocked if they didn't know of or even offer free legal counsel. Go to your local church...local government...local bar chapter to find the help you need.

 

You must protect yourself, your children and your rights. If you do not have an order of child support - get one. When he violates...you violate him. In my state, they have some nasty "gotchas" for parents who lapse in their payments.

 

As far as I can tell, you have two children and he has no obligations what-so-ever. I'm not talking moral ones here...legal ones.