jj33 Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 That is wonderful KG I am so so proud of you. And of course you will compare for awhile until you meet the right person. And maybe that is a good thing. Having settled for less in so many ways you wont settle again. I like to think that the compariing keeps you honest so to speak. Have a great time on Monday!
Author KismetGirl Posted October 17, 2008 Author Posted October 17, 2008 Its more of a risk than it may seem. She could leave the kiddies on a play date or other mommies, with a relative while she does errands, with a baby sitter... its not as uncommon as you think. Theres a reason for the cliche of the stay at home mom having an A with the plumber or the tennis coach or the father who takes his kids to the playground.... You seem to have imagined her as a bedraggled exhausted unkempt woman with slobbering young children leaving her little time to be a siren and confidante for her man... she may be exhausted but the full the truth could be very very different. And even if its true that they have lost their spark it doesnt mean she isnt very attractive. Many of the stay at home Moms I know are dazzled by some of the other Moms showing up for play dates looking way more glamorous than you would imagine. Ive seen her plenty of times. She's not ugly, but she's nothing special, and certainly far from glamerous or beautiful. "Pretty", at best, and Im not the only one to say it anyway. And to be honest, I don't think they "lost' a spark, I dont think they ever had it. He loved her and felt comfortable with her, and im sure was attracted to her on some level, but "spark" seems to be lacking big time for a long time. how do you lose your spark after only a year of being married?
jj33 Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 He started cheating after only one year of being married.... Either way you cut it its very very bad. Either he lacked the balls to say he made a mistake or he is so narcissistic that he couldnt say no to what he wanted (women other than his wife) and .... that is just bad. Even happier you are going on a date. In years to come you will look back and see you dodged a bullet. Thank God hes not leaving. Then hed be your headache 24/7. The man is either a total coward or incredibly selfish. Sorry I know you love him but he has saddled his wife with 3 children and a husband who cant keep his pants zipped. if hed gotten out earlier she would have had a much better chance of finding someone who would love her the way she deserves to be loved. Now if he leaves or she kicks him to the curb she will have 3 children to care for as a single mother... he is a real heel to have known this at the beginning and not come clean. Edited to add I dont mean to suggest she cant meet someone because she has 3 kids of course she can... but its so cruel to cheat from such an early phase even if he left after they had only one child it would have been so much fairer on her. KG think of it - how would you feel if you found your H had been cheating while you were pregnant while you were carrying his children. And that he had been doing it from the beginning that your entire marriage had been a lie. My work is done here. You know what you need to do. Saying you are too weak is a poor excuse.
GPFan Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 how do you lose your spark after only a year of being married? The spark apparently remained after one-year as all of those children didn't materialise out of thin air. His actions belie his words.
Author KismetGirl Posted October 19, 2008 Author Posted October 19, 2008 The spark apparently remained after one-year as all of those children didn't materialise out of thin air. His actions belie his words. No offense, but a romantic connection is not necessary to have sex. A spark isn't a pre-requisiste to knocking someone up, last I checked. When you're in love with someone, you don't cheat on them four four years. Just my humble opinion.
MizzBlue72 Posted October 19, 2008 Posted October 19, 2008 Good for you Kismet for putting up an add on match.com!!! I really hope you do find someone that treats you as number one. I really wish that the MM could see how much this tears you up, and he will bow out gracefully to allow you to find the life that you deserve. I know how hard it will be for you to do this, but it really sounds like you are starting to do something to get past this. You are bright - intelligent and seem to be a good woman. You do deserve someone who can focus on you and be there for you all the time - not just when it is convenient. I know how bad you must feel, and I know how it feels to have those talks. Good luck with finding someone who will love you for you -- all of you, and who can devote themselves to a committed relationship.
Billie63 Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Well done Kismet - it's good to just have something else to distract you from MM - to let you know that the world does not revolve around him. I think you will come to your senses soon about this whole business and start putting Kismet first. Sorry if I was harsh on you - never meant to be horrible, just hate seeing you in this position. Well done again!
Geishawhelk Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 I feel a "group hug" coming on - !! *Thumbs up!*
GPFan Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 No offense, but a romantic connection is not necessary to have sex. A spark isn't a pre-requisiste to knocking someone up, last I checked.Knocking someone up? His wife? LOL OK, so he decided upon a 20-year commitment (commitment to raising children) X3 with the person he married because he wanted to get his rocks off. Perplexing...
whichwayisup Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 No offense, but a romantic connection is not necessary to have sex. A spark isn't a pre-requisiste to knocking someone up, last I checked. When you're in love with someone, you don't cheat on them four four years. Just my humble opinion. Men can easily separate love and sex. Just because a guy is turned on by another woman doesn't mean he's deeply in love, or even "in like." Obviously something keeps him at home, in his wife's bed night after night. And it just ain't about 'sex and love' it's about their life together as husband and wife. Sure he's being a PIG-ASS by cheating on her, but obviously something is broken inside him. Big time.
Author KismetGirl Posted October 20, 2008 Author Posted October 20, 2008 Knocking someone up? His wife? LOL OK, so he decided upon a 20-year commitment (commitment to raising children) X3 with the person he married because he wanted to get his rocks off. Perplexing... No.....when he married her, he said to himself (and this is what he told me long before me and him hooked up), she "felt comfortable, like home" and he wanted to settle down with someone, so he did. Obviously he didn't considering being in love with someone or having a spark a necessety. he thought loving someone was the same as being in love with them. It isn't. . Im sure when they had their first kid he figured this was what it's all about. The last two were not planned. He made a comittment, and has a family, so now he's sticking to it. he isn't going to change his whole life just because he might have met someone better suited for him on a romantic level.....it's not that straightforward and easy is it. In the movies love conquers all and everything else is worked out as long as you have your true love or bla blah blah. In reality, social acceptance, children, the new house, the financial troubles, and honestly just not wanting to hurt the woman you agreed to marry, all take precedence over your own true happiness when it comes to love. They are seperate matters, and one usually wins out over the other in real life. Pros of leaving his wife to be with me : 1) possibley being with someone you have a true connection with and could die happy with Cons of leaving his wife: 1) not being there with your kids full time 2) being in financial ruin trying to support two households with child support , alimony, and a second rent, when you can barely pay for one household on current salary 3) hurting the woman you married, who you may not be in love with, but you still care about her 4) being shunned and angering your family and friends 5) upsetting the basic comfortable balance of family life you have 7) CHILDREN 8) CHILDREN 9)CHILDREN As you can see, the cons outweigh the pros. This doesn't mean he's in love with his wife or what not, but in an "in between" phase, the decision is easily pushed to the side that bears less negative consequences. Anyway.....I am off to my date in a couple hours. Wish me luck....I've already been comparing the guy to MM, and my date's a bloody Harvard educated doctor!!!! Argh!!!!! OK ok, I'll try to think rationally.... *sigh* I'll try to give it a chance.....fingers crossed he doesn't suck.....
hiding in love Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 It isn't easy being the OW. I know that now. I am a recently divorced woman who has 2 girls. Fell in love with a MM I met at work. The affair began and is still ongoing...I don't know how much more of this I could handle. Pray and hope that you can come out of this...keep yourself busy
hiding in love Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 It isn't easy being the OW. I know that now. I am a recently divorced woman who has 2 girls. Fell in love with a MM I met at work. The affair began and is still ongoing...I don't know how much more of this I could handle. Pray and hope that you can come out of this...keep yourself busy, try to see if you could still come out of this miserable situation. I know that it is easier said than done, but we have to at least try right? The problem lies between the feeling of being abandoned after the great sex and the feeling of attachment while doing it. It becomes so overwhelming that it sometimes becomes unreasonably ridiculous to let go of this false contentment and false hopes that we attribute as love?
Author KismetGirl Posted October 21, 2008 Author Posted October 21, 2008 It isn't easy being the OW. I know that now. I am a recently divorced woman who has 2 girls. Fell in love with a MM I met at work. The affair began and is still ongoing...I don't know how much more of this I could handle. Pray and hope that you can come out of this...keep yourself busy, try to see if you could still come out of this miserable situation. I know that it is easier said than done, but we have to at least try right? The problem lies between the feeling of being abandoned after the great sex and the feeling of attachment while doing it. It becomes so overwhelming that it sometimes becomes unreasonably ridiculous to let go of this false contentment and false hopes that we attribute as love? You have no idea how hard it is.....all the heartache in the world doesn't make it easier to end the situation. Maybe if something else in my life was going well or making me happy instead of just being stressed out and uber busy all the time, I'd find solace in something else, but I don't, so I cling cling cling to someone that can never, ever give me what I need. I think if I had met him when his kids were older it might be different, but I don't think I've EVER heard of any situation anywhere of someone who is genuinly a good man (despite what people may think about his cheating...) but who is otherwise a good person and would abandon his three children, all of whom are under 5 years old. It's just not reality. If he did leave them, he'd be an asshle. Which hes not, inwardly....so I guess it's not changing. Im stuck like this until I find someone else or find the strength to leave, the latter of which seems impossible most days. You should get out more than me. Your children depend on your sanity :-) I have no one but myself to support, so if I go insane, it's not quite as bad, but you've got your daughters to worry about.....they'll notice if mom starts getting depressed cause shes in love with some MM ..... Look at that, I thread jacked my own thread. Lovely. PS- my date went well, sort of. As goes 99% of the time, he loved me and was asking with much enthusiasm when he could see my beautiful face again (his words) and obviously quite enamored from the get go....and of course, while I thought he was very nice, very smart, very educated, speaks like five languages, is a doctor, etc etc....didn't have nearly any of the same attraction as I have to someone else. I think I could get to like him in due time, and maybe I'll give a second date a go, but is it so bad to want that chemistry with someone? You can always grow to like someone over time, but I think if that spark isn't there from the beginning, it isn't really going to grow.... *sigh*
jj33 Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 A genuinely good man doesnt cheat on his wife after one year of marriage and continue to have an affair behind her back for the duration - despite your hiatus he has essentially been cheating on her on and off since the beginning. COntinuing to get her pregnant and not tell her he is with you. And you refuse to see this. As for leaving small children, there are lots of people who leave and it doesnt make them bad people. As for the fact that he "cant" leave, he could have not had more children if he was already unhappy. Wake up. The guy is never ever planning on leaving. he is not a good guy. Good guys dont suddenly find themselves in a situtaion where they had one child and had an affair broke it off had 2 more and then continued the affair What was his philosophy - ive already had 1, I am stuck so whats two more? You are fooling yourself Kismet.
Author KismetGirl Posted October 21, 2008 Author Posted October 21, 2008 You are fooling yourself Kismet. *sigh* that is a distinct possibility, JJ. Easier to try to justify it, in a weird way, though. To think that someone could be really happy in a marriage, and still cheat for so long, doesn't make any sense to me, so maybe that's why I keep trying to justify things. Makes it easier to try and understand. I've never been the kind of person to take things at face value, always have to know the reasoning behind everything, the logical answers, it drives me crazy when things just don't make sense I guess its not all about "good person" or "bad person" or "evil person" , there are levels in between....last two kids were both conceived when me and him were "broken up" for periods, don't know if that's coincidence, guess it doesn't matter much. he always said having kids was the best thing he ever did with his life. Not that getting married to her was the best thing he ever did, but, that thing did give him his kids, so, i guess indirectly it is. It's a headache. I wonder how long it takes the average person to get over an affair like this....it seems I've surpassed that time frame almost. Sometimes I wish i'd never agreed to go for a drink with him that night four years ago. That one kiss ruined everything. Oh well. Everything happens for a reason....right? *sigh*
IfWishesWereHorses Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 No.....when he married her, he said to himself (and this is what he told me long before me and him hooked up), she "felt comfortable, like home" and he wanted to settle down with someone, so he did. Obviously he didn't considering being in love with someone or having a spark a necessety. he thought loving someone was the same as being in love with them. Kismet, How long do you think that spark is there? The spark is in most cases about the newness, the excitement, the unknown. Let me ask you, if you were tending the three children under 5, having to call your MM/H to say the little Johnny is throwing up, the washer is broken, someone flushed the rubber duckie and the toilet is overflowing and your not sure but it's 90 degrees inside the the AC is running non stop, OH, and can you PUHLEASE stop on your way home to grab some more Pampers. How much spark is there in that???? That becomes real life. From what you say, he has a very hectic schedule and a lot on his plate. How is it not logical, that you are a respite from that? I understand that you are crazy about him, but you are believing what you WANT to believe when the logical answer is right there in front of you. Your pro's list is more about how YOU feel than how he feels, IMO. I know you've got a ton on your plate also. I hope you'll give this new fellow a chance for something REAL.
Author KismetGirl Posted October 21, 2008 Author Posted October 21, 2008 No.....when he married her, he said to himself (and this is what he told me long before me and him hooked up), she "felt comfortable, like home" and he wanted to settle down with someone, so he did. Obviously he didn't considering being in love with someone or having a spark a necessety. he thought loving someone was the same as being in love with them. Kismet, How long do you think that spark is there? The spark is in most cases about the newness, the excitement, the unknown. Let me ask you, if you were tending the three children under 5, having to call your MM/H to say the little Johnny is throwing up, the washer is broken, someone flushed the rubber duckie and the toilet is overflowing and your not sure but it's 90 degrees inside the the AC is running non stop, OH, and can you PUHLEASE stop on your way home to grab some more Pampers. How much spark is there in that???? That becomes real life. From what you say, he has a very hectic schedule and a lot on his plate. How is it not logical, that you are a respite from that? I understand that you are crazy about him, but you are believing what you WANT to believe when the logical answer is right there in front of you. Your pro's list is more about how YOU feel than how he feels, IMO. I know you've got a ton on your plate also. I hope you'll give this new fellow a chance for something REAL. Just making it known.....that "spark" wasn't there BEFORE three kids, they only had one when i met him, they both worked, grandparents babysat the kid during the day, so don't tell me just having one baby and being married only a couple years is so much stress that someone you were massively in love with no longer holds any romantic appeal for you? And that this appeal then just stayed lost the rest of the 7 years of your marriage? Intensity can ebb and flow but it seems to me that losing interest so soon in a marriage doesn't seem like you had that much intensity to begin with... i may delude myself sometimes, but this isn't a new loss of interest in his wife for him in the past couple years now that there is three kids instead of one and etc, this has been there a long time. He has been an ass to ignore it and continue growing his family despite the fact that something is obviously wrong in his head RE: the marriage, but thats a whole other issue. Whatever it doesnt matter. Three kids are there. Family is a unit. He isn't changing that. The whole problem here is my inability to leave and I don't know how to do it. Weakness may not be an excuse for some, but I swear what strength I have goes to keeping my sanity in every other part of my crazy life and I just feel like I have none left anymore. I try to give other guys a chance....I went out with this guy last night, he's already texted me today asking when he can see me again, he works all sorts of crazy shifts at the hospital and he's still willing to see me in whatever free time I can offer him, and I just am not that excited about it. I wish I was. I might even see him again, but its more forcing myself than really wanting to see the guy again. And you know what, I did that with my ex boyfriend. The one I dated for over three years. I was never very excited about him , from day one, but he was sweet and absolutely smitten with me and never would have fathomed cheating on me and wanted to marry me and i swear i stuck it out for three years hoping my feelings would change, because, hell, he felt "comfortable, like home should feel like". The only difference between me and MM is that I realized that wasn't enough for a relationship to be happy and last, and if I'd married my ex like he'd wanted, who knows, maybe I'd be a MW right now instead of an OW, with MM would be my OM as well. Not everyone realizes that tho, and then once you've made a decision....not everyone wants to change things. I have a distinct feeling once the kids get older, and all the focus every day all day is not all on three little kids running around, that things will change and he'll realize he doesnt want to be there but by then i wont be available (i hope). Im not waiting ten years for them to be teenagers! At least Im not crazy enough to say im sitting here and waiting for him .....one must be grateful for the moments of sanity....
Dominique Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 I am going to have to agree with Kismet here. I am not an OW nor have I been so I am not taking sides with "the team" so to speak, but I agree with her on her point about marriage, spark, being in love and kids... Good marriages, founded on true love, are not just about--when the kids come along--the daily life of rubber ducks in the toilet, throwing up 5 year olds, getting Pampers on the way home from work. They make time for themselves, make each other a priority, know when to call in the babysitter/Nanny, and do try to keep perspective. They have seen enough to know that the husband-wife coupling is more than just being PTA members. In couples I have known where there was really the heart-fluttering passion for each other, the in love-love before they married, many of these stresses are taken with humor (which is the best route) or just part-of-the package tedium. But never did these kiddie things "define" their marriage. These were the types of couples who ventured through foreign countries with backpacks and bottles of water before starting a family, who shared the same political views, interests, and physical attraction, of course. It was more than just "comfort" and "eh, this should be all right" that prompted proposals. So I agree that "spark" should stay throughout a marriage. There should be that attraction that no amount of diapers should take away--and of course, a woman should remember to be a woman and not just a mom, just as a man should be a gentleman with the wolfish gleam in his eye and not just the "papa". It is possible, with priorities. I know a couple that has been married ten years and to this day they seen like teenagers sharing their first kiss. The passion is just there. Each is quite interesting in his/her own right. And they have two kids. DOM
jj33 Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Dominique I have been the OW so I am not "on the other team" so to speak and if you have read some of my other posts I understand how people can decide to have needs met outside of a marriage. I think it is a far far different story however to be involved with someone whose wife is pregant. Am I being judgemental? Yes. I know I am. But it is a very very different thing than to be with someone who is on his way out the door, or who has an arrangement with his wife whereby they both get their needs met outside of a marriage. People who want to cheat say all different things about a spark. Why do you think there are so many ugly threads on here about D day and betrayed spouses? Wives who had no idea that the MM was cheating and the MM then throws OW under the bus? Of course he is not going to say he is sleeping with his wife. Of course he is going to say that it is about the kids - that gives him another 18 years... to go on seeing KG when and as he wishes with no regard to what is right for her. And to underestimate this feeling of home is a very bad mistake. The feeling of home is in many ways to many people the same as feeling that someone is your soulmate. I know it is to me. But KG do you REALLY think he is going to use the word soulmate with you? Of COURSE he is not. Hes not going to tell you his W is his soulmate. You can make up any excuse you want to, but it doesnt change the facts. Im sorry but he is using you. He is the picture perfect definition of a cake man. I hope you see that in time. All this nonsense about he cant be happy or he wouldnt do this etc etc etc. It doesnt matter. He is doing it and years later he is not with you - hes only stuck himself deeper in it by having more kids. Doesnt that tell you anything? KG have you considered individual counseling for yourself? You really havent tried to get over him. Trying would mean telling him not to call you for awhile. Trying NC and trying to make it stick.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 I hope I don't have my poster's mixed up, but what really hits home with me on this MM, is that he's made no promises or professions of love to Kismet, am I right here? He has talked about guilt, and skirted the other issues. He has even told her that he hopes she finds someone that can be all that she deserves. I'm sure there are deep feelings toward her, it just doesn't ring true IMO, that they are the same as hers towards him.
jj33 Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Yes IFWH you have the facts right. He says he feels guilt. He says he hopes she finds someone else. He says he married his W because she felt like "home". These are not the words of a man who is going anywhere. I agree with you entirely. He is being incredibly selfish. Selfish with respect to his W and with respect to KG.
Dominique Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Dominique I have been the OW so I am not "on the other team" so to speak and if you have read some of my other posts I understand how people can decide to have needs met outside of a marriage. I think it is a far far different story however to be involved with someone whose wife is pregant. Am I being judgemental? Yes. I know I am. But it is a very very different thing than to be with someone who is on his way out the door, or who has an arrangement with his wife whereby they both get their needs met outside of a marriage. People who want to cheat say all different things about a spark. Why do you think there are so many ugly threads on here about D day and betrayed spouses? Wives who had no idea that the MM was cheating and the MM then throws OW under the bus? Of course he is not going to say he is sleeping with his wife. Of course he is going to say that it is about the kids - that gives him another 18 years... to go on seeing KG when and as he wishes with no regard to what is right for her. And to underestimate this feeling of home is a very bad mistake. The feeling of home is in many ways to many people the same as feeling that someone is your soulmate. I know it is to me. But KG do you REALLY think he is going to use the word soulmate with you? Of COURSE he is not. Hes not going to tell you his W is his soulmate. You can make up any excuse you want to, but it doesnt change the facts. Im sorry but he is using you. He is the picture perfect definition of a cake man. I hope you see that in time. All this nonsense about he cant be happy or he wouldnt do this etc etc etc. It doesnt matter. He is doing it and years later he is not with you - hes only stuck himself deeper in it by having more kids. Doesnt that tell you anything? KG have you considered individual counseling for yourself? You really havent tried to get over him. Trying would mean telling him not to call you for awhile. Trying NC and trying to make it stick. J--I do agree with you here for the most part. And the fact that he is cheating on a pregnant wife (my head is spinning with some of these posts, I must have overlooked that "somehow") is truly tacky. I was trying to take the "spark" argument into a separate context, just talking about married life qua married life outside of the extraordinary OW circumstances. But that it is the OW life that is defining K's perspective here, you are right it does not make for the most cogent argument... DOM
jj33 Posted October 21, 2008 Posted October 21, 2008 Dom I may not have the facts exactly straight but it doesnt really matter. KG keeps saying the children were "conceived" while they were apart - which is either a cute way of saying she was with him while his wife was pregnant or she got back with him soon after the children were born. If you sleep with someone on a Tuesday and they knock up their wife on a wednesday the child was still conceived while you were apart... Same thing if the MM goes on vacation and has what some would call obligatory sex and gets her pregnant... its all the same rubbish. Noone does that by accident if they dont want to stay married and tied to the other person. Especially not on $70,000 a year in New York.... The whole thing smacks of KG being fed a big bunch of rubbish. Or constructing it herself because it makes her feel better about the situation. The fact is he has had TWo more chldren with this sparkless woman while seeing KG. And she has been with him while his wife was pregnant or soon after the children were born all the while telling herself he would prefer to be with her.... Most of us kid ourselves to some degree when we are the OW some dont but most do. Otherwise unless you are like the few exceptions on the board its too too painful to look at all the facts and accept your situation once you have fallen in love with the man. KG I am not trying to be harsh or mean but if I knew you I would just want to shake you out of this. You are wasting precious time on this man unless you just feel you are so emotionally unavialable to others for some reason that it doesnt matter. I still struggle with my feelings for xMM (and yes Owl I know its because we are still in touch) and it has been over for more than a year. So I am not the poster girl for getting over things quickly. Its not so bad anymore most of the time. But for a long time it was very very difficult. And its difficult not to read into things especially with that thing many British men have about sharing their emotions. But British or not married or not when a man wants to be with you he finds a way. He doesnt have 2 more children with his wife. Staying for the kids is a big big myth. Just look at the statistics. There are loads of single mothers out there.... And its often better for the children in the long run. And it would give his W a chance to find someone who really loved her if its true that he doesnt love her and feel that spartk. The bottom line is, if someone is really unhappy, they leave. If they are not, they stay. Its not like she is in Iraq, seriously ill or there is some other reason why he cant leave her. He just doesnt want to.
wildsoul Posted October 22, 2008 Posted October 22, 2008 At the risk of sounding blunt, er um being blunt... The feelings that the MM has towards his W are completely irrelevant. Kismet, you seem to be obsessing over him and his life. But again, I assert that how he feels or doesn't feel about his W is irrelevant. What IS relevant, is that he has clearly said that he does not have a desire to make you his GF or W. He isn't even all that interested in keeping you on as his affair, as he openly encouraged you to seek someone who cares for and is available to you. Somehow, you are able to "see" that he doesn't love his wife, but are unable to see that he doesn't love you.
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