It's all so futile and I feel so pahtetically weak

[jwi71]

Kismet,

 

I asked you in the other thread what you got out of this relationship. I would like you to grab a pen and paper and scribble 5 things you get. How does this satisfy your needs.

 

I also asked how this R does not meet your needs. Like the above, scribble down 5 ways in which he is not meeting your needs.

 

Now write down what you need from any R. Can he reasonably meet it?

 

I have asked and posted, in sometimes incomplete thoughts, that an A poses its own unique emotional challenges. You're in the "bad" time now. Deal with it. I know that sounds mean, but you must. If he had any intention of being with you for more than your body...he'd be there. Period. He would have left his BS, arranged for custody/visitation then married you.

 

That didn't happen.

It will NEVER happen.

 

He will not spend Christmas with you. He will not stay by your bedside in a hospital. He will not take children "Trick or Treating" with you, have breakfast with Santa with you or any other life experience with you. You my hear about it...but you will never live it. You are the OW...in this case I mean the "Outside Woman". A convenience.

 

You are both addicted to the temporary and false elation that each gives the other. It isnt real. You temporarily satisfy the needs of the other...but what needs are being met and which are not? If this is so great for you both...why hasn't he left his W for you?

 

I hope you wake up. You do this to yourself. Do you think HE cries like this? Well, truth be told...he probably does. Just not for you.

 

Is this what you deserve?

[whichwayisup]

I want to scream and yell, I want to pound on him with my fists and cry and ask him why he's doing this to me

 

What he is doing is keeping you in the role of the OW. You aren't high on his priority list, he'll see you when HE feels like it and when he has the time. What you want from him is committment, and you're putting TONS of expectations on him - Ones that he will never meet...Ones that he doesn't WANT to meet.

 

He never speaks of his feelings because he isn't inlove with you. He can easily separate caring for you, having sex with you and he can shut it out and put it out of his mind. THAT'S why he does what he does... And you LET him, so ofcourse, he'll continue.

 

Haven't read the rest of your thread, but I honestly think you know deep down inside that he is NOT going to do anything to change things. You're the OW, he's happy enough with that. If you want him - Keep it simple and detach yourself - BUT, I think you can do better and dump his @ss, find a single man who can give you everything, not just bits and pieces on his time frame. It's up to you - This is YOUR life and whatever choices YOU make, you own..Don't put it on him.

[whichwayisup]

So how should I approach this, then?

 

Tell him you deserve better and more! Tell him that what you feel for him is there but it's obvious that he has nothing to give you, he can't meet your needs. Tell him goodbye. Tell him never to contact you. Then you cry, you grieve, you heal.

[frannie]

JJ

 

So how should I approach this, then?

 

Sit him on the couch when he comes in and instead of letting him kiss me look him in the face and ask him if he considers me to be a friend? Assuming he says yes, on some level, then to say that then while I know Im neither his girlfrind nor his wife, that i still deserve and need more out of this than Im getting, and that I dont think its asking so much for him to make it a point to call me when he says he will , and that he needs to find a way to see me AT LEAST the once a week I expect, or else this just isn't fair to me or working for me? That this situation is not just about making him happy when it's convenient for him? That sometimes I just need to see him for a few minutes because he's one of the only people I know that despite what a ****ty day I've had can make me feel calm and at peace just by kissing me and hugging me?

 

I feel like just blurting out "Im in love with you more than I have ever been with any man I've ever met" might be....awkward. And better left for another time when hopefully at least ONE day I'll have him for more than just an hour.

 

Yes, in my opinion that's exactly what you do: sit him down and tell him how you feel. How him not calling when he said he would made you feel. Otherwise, how on earth is he going to know, he's not a mind-reader. How are you going to have any kind of relationship with him if you don't tell him what makes you feel good and what makes you feel so bad that you spend a whole weekend in agony.

 

Oh, and if you do happen to blurt out that you love him with all your being, then perhaps that's because you need to do that too.

 

It's bad enough it being (only) an affair, without making it emotionally retarded into the bargain. Jmho as usual

[norajane]

If I keep seeing him, not giving in to sex with him would be mighty hard. The fact that I am already a very sexual woman to begin with and don't have other options right now because I refuse to sleep around withjust anyone, when he walks through that door it's all I can do to get the door shut behind him before he's picked me up and carried me to my bed and ripped each other's clothes off.

 

But not sleeping with him? Phew. That'll be hard. it's something to consider, I guess. Imagine the best sex you ever had in your life, and that's what we've got right now. It's four-orgasms-an-hour-clawing-off-the-ceilings good. Im quite certain my neighbors two flats over can attest to it on good days and they've never even seen me. But they sure as hell have heard me. Ha!

 

So, is it fair to ask if the affair has become mostly about sex for YOU?

 

Is that all YOU are getting out of it anymore?

[SerenityX2]

Kismet, Norajane poses a valid question. But reading your posts I can guess your answer. It's clear you are in love with him, to you when you two are together it's *making love* Sadly though, for him it's not...that's clear. I'm not saying he doesn't care for you, but it's still not true love.

 

Yes, I can understand the "best sex ever". But I challenge you to challenge yourself and change your thinking...HOW do you know it's the best you can ever have?

 

It's not difficult for some guys to say all the right things, build you up that you're flying even "look" at you like they've never seen someone so beautiful. Even more so if they thought you were out of their league or were intimidating, or dreamed that someone like you could exist...some guys know what to say or think they know what you want/need to hear. But at the end of the day some guys truly can compartmentalize and what you thought and even thought "they" were thinking was all only on your end. It's equally not that hard to go out and find fantastic sex if that's what you're looking for but it's reduced to an act, that's not lovemaking and over time that takes it's toll on your psyche b/c it wasn't created to just get rocks off.

 

I understand you think this connection you have is rare, but it's the same that affair partners all feel b/c of the secretiveness...it fuels the desire and b/c that person is off limits or forbidden fruit, when you bite it you *think* it tastes that much sweeter, the touch that much hotter until later when the bitter aftertaste sets in. It's b/c it's based in fantasy for both of you...that's WHY it *seems* so good, it's not real.

 

Kismet real love isn't like that. Hard to know from this site and esp the marriage section, which is a sad state of times, but it doesn't have to be that way and you're setting your bar way too low for this guy.

 

Love and trust me I "get" passion I also believe it's a necessary component, but it's MUCH more than that...it's that gazing into each other's eyes, a literal melding or fusing of yourself of completely giving of one another and yet bonding deeper and deeper, it's being able to SAY I love you and feel you are being made love to with zero doubt. It transcends mere sex, even really good, hot, can't-catch-your breath sex.

 

I get wild sex is important too, but that's what I'm saying...deep soul connecting love is not exclusive to the wild...they build on and enhance the other. When you truly have someone's heart, inhibitions really go out the window and you can explore even deeper and deeper and satisfy and want to please each other on every level. But you feel safe. Passion with safety, now that's unbeatable.

 

He's not there for you like that. I fear you won't allow yourself to find it if you don't break free from this. What I fear even more from your posts is that since he is controlling more and more of your moods that your going to screw up your very bright, promising future. You've admitted to not studying as you should and are losing your concentration at times. Don't kid yourself that it can't and won't slip away if you continue like this.

 

I'm in my last year of nursing school right now and that's intense b/c of the volume that you're given in such a short while...and by the sounds of it, you don't have to study too hard which is great, I have to study my butt off to maintain honors, but your schooling is only going to get more intense, I watched people in my program have their dreams dashed b/c their personal life interfered and they couldn't focus... you owe it to yourself to stand strong on your own THEN be ready for that person when he crosses your path and you'll know b/c there will be no doubt, no questions. It's not been just my experience but other people that I know that have said "when it's right, it's right" and you just *know*

 

Kismet there is no mountain tall enough that you can't climb...reach inside yourself and pray for the strength...that I PROMISE you is there, but YOU need to reach for it, it won't just land in your lap.

 

One door closes but a window opens...find the courage... you do have it.

[KismetGirl]

Thank you all for writing back so far. I haven't had the mental strength the last few days to write back much....been a tough week. Struggling to concenrate for this upcoming exam I have (which i havent studied for at all....five days left to learn four massive chapters of Orgo. lovely), and at work it's been hell all week. One of my patients died, my boss was fired (a wonderful, kind woman who was the only person to help me sneak out of work to get to class this semester, no other manager would have done it and now Im not sure what to do....), and my clinic is being investigated for possible fraud on the part of a select few, and even though I haven't done anything wrong, being interrogated in a small room by assh**le administrators is nerve wracking as they relentlessly try to get my to rat out other innocent people , not to mention the doctor i work with resigned, my co-worker's mother died and Ive been tryng to help him get past it, my other co-worker's OW died in a car accident recently (as i mentioned on a thread not long ago) and I seem to be the only person he has been able to share this with as he's married, obviously, and everyone else knows he's married and Im the only one for obvious reasons he felt comfortable talking about her with. I mean, it seems like misery is everywhere lately, and I an't even eat normally, I get these weird waves of nausea all the time for no apparent reason. I'm moody and snap at people and feel lie Im going crazy. Usually Im starving all the time but lately I have like no appetite. All this is on my mind, and at the end of the day, I still find myself wondering what MM is doing. I have't seen him in almost two weeks, and have not spoken to him since friday when he promised to call me back and never did. Not too surprised....I'll probably hear from him on thursday, since that day he's usually working out of the office that is only a couple blocks away from where I live. I get nauseous thinking about him with his family, and I get hurt wondering if he's thought about me at all over the weekend or not. I started crying while driving home, already stressed from all this other crap, and thinking about how if he called me randomly on Thursday I'd want to tell him he's a f**kng a-hole and that just because Im not his effing wife doesn't mean I don't deserve respect and that if he wants to see me he should take the time to call me earlier in the week and give me a heads up, and ask if I'll be around thursday instead of just assuming I'll be there. I think he's either A) become too comfortable in this situation, and that is partially my fault for letting him or B) he's going through one of his infamous "I feel guilty about what Im doing" phases and that is making him be a total douchebag. It's likely a bit of both, but more of (B) lately maybe.

 

Maybe Im lookin too much into this, but, The last few times we've made love for whatever reason we stopped using condoms. Maybe this isn't a big deal to some people , but it is to me, as I've done that with only one person in my entire life. Just stopped one day, I dont know why. He didnt ask me to do it, I just straddld him one day without getting one and he didn't stop me, and then did it again and again without using anything. Stupid stupid, es I know, don' remind me, but Im on birth control usually and for some reason I wanted to know....how do i explain it...I wanted to FEEL him. Maybe Im not making sense. I got paranoid and got the morning after pill because my other birth control didnt kick in for another few days at least, but I did it anyway, not using a condom which is soo unlike me. After we did that there was something different in the way he acted afterwards. Not a bad "something", just in the way he looked at me, like he was partially confused and partially like...like how you look at someone when you love them. Usually he's goofy and joking and just being playful, but this time, He was almost MORE afectionate than usual, and would just keep staring at me and not saying much and everytime I'd sit up or something he'd pull me down to kiss me again and just stare at me again. Im not making sense, i dont know. I think that maybe doing that has made him think more, I guess since he hasn't done that with anyone but his wife in probably 15+ years. I found it odd that he never asked me if I was on any birth control. You'd think he'd be paranoid about that, woudnt you? I told him I haven't slept with anyone else in over a year and that I get tested so I guess that wasn't a concern, but I wondered why he kept doing it without asking me if I was on the pill, or anything.

 

either way I've been on the verge of a nervous breakdown for the past 5 or 6 days. It's getting so bad im seriously considering taking a leave of absense from work for a month to get some much needed rest and get my brain straight. I dont want to ruin my future and everything ive worked so hard for , but lately I feel like Im working so hard and its beyond normal levels and i just feel like im falling apart.

 

I won't call him this week. I wont call him. I'll see if he calls me. If this week continues like its been going it might be hard to say no to him as I so desperately want something to make me smile this week, even for an hour, but if he catches me in one of my "crazy nervous breakdown" moments I might just yell at him and tell him to go f**k himself instead. I guess I'll see how I feel when he gets in touch.

 

Sorry for this rambling post that probably makes no sense. Im exhausted and mentally fried right now. I'll try to write something more coherent after my exam maybe.....in the meantime thank you for writing, it keeps me slightly more sane reading support from peple :-)

His birthday is in december, and the present i bought him came in the mail already. He likes collecting books (signed first editions, etc) and hasn't bought himself anything in a long time because of how tight money is at home lately . He'd mentioned he almost bought this particular book he found and wanted, and the signed first copy was only 50 bucks, but money is so tight he didnt get it. So I found a copy of my own, which was actually hard to find despite the low cost as compared to other signed books, and bought it for him. I wonder if I should even give it to him anymore. I have no use for it....I guess we'll see.

 

Im rambling now. ugh. This is how tired and stressed and anxious and depressed I am, I can't put two coherent thoughts together these last few days.

[GreenEyedLady]

((KISMET))

 

My heart goes out to you. You need to take a hiatus. It's going to drive you nuts.

 

I think you should think about whether you truly want him. You are so busy doing a million things. I don't think you actually have time for someone truly available. And that's why you stay where you are. He fills your need. And doesn't hover or act needy. And you just want a little bit more than what he's giving you.

 

I disagree that MM won't do the emotional talk. They do. And if you make your needs known and make it known that you won't settle for what they'll give you, they'll do it. They don't want to lose you. I bet he loves you. It's been too long and to share what you've shared, there is love there. It may not be the kind that will cause him to change his life, but it's still love. And you fulfill his needs. If you leave, he has to find someone else to fill that void.

 

Another thing, I wouldn't be so sure that he hasn't had an A before. How would you feel if you knew you weren't his first A? Would it bother you?

 

But again, do you really want to be with him for keeps? Because if you do, you have to change your game. You're right in his back pocket with pining and being compliant. Have a backbone. Don't be a doormat. Make your needs known and don't accept less than what you need.

 

(((HUGS)))

[Ronni_W]

Hugs, Kismet.

Your post actually made a LOT of sense, at least to me. I'm sorry for all that you are needing to deal with, right now.

 

Do what you gotta do, to get through it. It is a rough period, indeed. So, yeah...go see him if you want, and/or if it feels like that'll help you feel better and cope better. Why not?

 

Sending prayers for all the good stuff that you want for yourself.

Ronni

[jj33]

Kismet so so sorry you are having a rough time.

 

You know yourself its an issue but VERY concerned you are not using birth control. You are young fertile and can not afford an unplanned pregnancy. Even if you didnt keep it, it would be a huge drama huge guilt between you and MM.

 

Take precautions. Be safe. Dont put that extra stress on yourself.

 

Take good care.

 

Hugs

[Billie63]

This guy is really something.

 

He had three children with his wife but their conception wasn't his fault. He blamed it on the wife.

 

I suppose if/when you announce your pregnancy it won't be his fault either. After all you did straddle him sans condom.

 

I'm glad you took the MAP. Please stop second guessing what he's thinking just because he's looking at you with a soppy look in his eye. Ask him what he's thinking.

[KismetGirl]

This guy is really something.

 

He had three children with his wife but their conception wasn't his fault. He blamed it on the wife.

 

I suppose if/when you announce your pregnancy it won't be his fault either. After all you did straddle him sans condom.

 

I'm glad you took the MAP. Please stop second guessing what he's thinking just because he's looking at you with a soppy look in his eye. Ask him what he's thinking.

 

 

Huh? He didn't blame anything on his wife as far as having kids went....he loves all his kids very much, he just didnt exactly plan on the last two, especially this last one because they're so strapped financially, but what can you do, things happen. Last i checked he's aware of the birds and the bees and it only takes one time, ya know, but it happens .

 

Anyyway, I won't be announcing any pregnancies. I said I went and got the morning after pill immediately after that first time, and since then Im on birth control. Yuo apparently missed the point of that posting....but ok.

 

I don't need any rough love right now, ok? Please. Im having a rough couple of weeks, and an even rougher year, and it's not just MM that's making it hard. I should ask him yes, but its hard sometimes. i didnt even bother calling him this week because im so mentally exhausted I can't think straight. i almost didnt care if i spoke to him this week.

 

he called me this morning, and not because he could come over today, he cant because of work stuff, but because he wanted to hear my voice and ask me if I'm ok and see how Im doing. Which is a nice thing to do. Im mad at him but Im not starting arguments on the phone. When I see him I'll see how I feel. if I feel close to how I've felt the last few days, starting drama with him is the last thing I need and I might just want to enjoy our hour or two as is. Im seriously feeling like Im verging on some kind of nervous breakdown sometimes lately, and don't even know if i'll have a job in a week, or how Im going to finish this semester with school, so please be a little easy on me for a few days. The tough love advice thing is ok sometimes, i really don't need it this week. thanks.

[Billie63]

Huh? He didn't blame anything on his wife as far as having kids went....he loves all his kids very much, he just didnt exactly plan on the last two, especially this last one because they're so strapped financially, but what can you do, things happen. Last i checked he's aware of the birds and the bees and it only takes one time, ya know, but it happens .

 

In his case it took two times. And these things happen because both people are careless. He didn't plan to have those kids? Then why oh why did he not protect himself? Oh yes I forgot his wife's a catholic! Can you not see how lame he is?

 

Anyyway, I won't be announcing any pregnancies. I said I went and got the morning after pill immediately after that first time, and since then Im on birth control. Yuo apparently missed the point of that posting....but ok.

 

I didin't miss the point at all. I said I was glad you had the sense to take the MAP. But you have proved that you are capable of rash behaviour over protection, not just the once but you continued to do it. So I have no idea of knowing if you'll do it again. I sincerely hope you don't.

 

I don't need any rough love right now, ok? Please. Im having a rough couple of weeks, and an even rougher year, and it's not just MM that's making it hard. I should ask him yes, but its hard sometimes. i didnt even bother calling him this week because im so mentally exhausted I can't think straight. i almost didnt care if i spoke to him this week. he called me this morning, and not because he could come over today, he cant because of work stuff, but because he wanted to hear my voice and ask me if I'm ok and see how Im doing. Which is a nice thing to do. Im mad at him but Im not starting arguments on the phone. When I see him I'll see how I feel. if I feel close to how I've felt the last few days, starting drama with him is the last thing I need and I might just want to enjoy our hour or two as is. Im seriously feeling like Im verging on some kind of nervous breakdown sometimes lately, and don't even know if i'll have a job in a week, or how Im going to finish this semester with school, so please be a little easy on me for a few days. The tough love advice thing is ok sometimes, i really don't need it this week. thanks.

 

I don't want to be rough on you - you've got enough on your plate trying to establish your career. A woman like you needs a strong man in your life to enhance it, not make you feel like second best.. You have got yourself a weak man there. But you'll have to ride it through and find out for yourself exactly what you've got yourself into. I won't be commenting on any of your threads anymore. It's too frustrating to witness someone so intelligent deluding themselves as you are doing.

[2sure]

Kismit -

 

This man is offering you so very little. Your posts are so sad. I promise you that someday in the future, you will look back on the thoughts and actions you are currently having and say to yourself - WTF?

 

You ask several times, why is it so hard for him to find twently measly minutes to give you. You are so low on his priority list, he just doesnt.

 

When you dont call him for a few days, he will call to make sure he still has you. Other than that, he just assumes he does. He will not elaborate on his emotions/feelings because when he walks out the door - they are as gone as he is, for the most part.

 

This honestly hurts me to say, but I think it is possible he has seen through your tough cookie disguise. You are behaving desperately and he enjoys the attention. Stop it.

 

I am a BS and sometimes thank the Karma train when it rolls on some other women. But this is just sad.

 

I know you can overcome this and your moment of WTF will come. And dont feel bad when it does come - because weve all had them.