Curmudgeon Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 You nailed it.. men (most.. ha-hem) want the stability.. they don't want conflict and they'll go to great lengths to avoid it.. this is soo true. And when you say that they will stay with their W (she's comfort, just like an old slipper ) for their kids.. I've find this statement to be true with most, ha-hem, men.. Men want comfort, stability and sex... simple as that. That's why they usually don't leave, they have the comfort and stability at home (this was built over the years).. then they have the sex in and out... (no pun intended ) of their marriage. Most women are different, as you say, they will leave if they can't stand their husband anymore and if they're in love with someone else. The stability is wonderful, Lizzie, but it's not the be all and the end all. I have to agree that for many of us there's a tendency to become conflict-avoidant. There can also be an element of "settling." I truly think that both traits are a great part of what tanked my former marriage of 25 years. So whatever possessed me to "jump" back into marriage after that experience and two + years following the divorce? I could have had all the "companionship" and "variety" I wanted since at my age (50) there were three or four available women for every unencumbered man. I had a stable career and a decent income. My financial future was bright and assured. So why did I even bother with anything so mundane, "restrictive" (I'm monogamous) and "risky" as another marriage? There's only one plausible answer. I fell in love with a long-term friend and a good woman. I'm still in love with my friend/wife 12 years later. It may not make any sense but that's the only excuse I can come up with. "Growing old" together has a certain appeal and it really helps that she loves me in equal measure.
KismetGirl Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I understand the curiosity as cynicism can be a burden it would be wonderful to have a strong basis for shaking it off. I do have a question for Lizzie, how many times have you been legally married versus 'shacking up'? How many serious proposals of marriage have you received? that's one of the dumbest questions ive ever seen asked on here. How many marraige proposals do most people get in their lifetimes? One, if they're lucky? Two? Come on now. If someone has told me theyd been asked for marriage 30 times I'd think there was something sort of odd about that more than someone who said they'd never been married yet. I'm 26 adn have only been proposed to once so far, I guess I must be a cynical ass lacking in relationship experience eh? Oh wait, a 50 year old who has been married ten times, THAT would be someone who knows how to sustain a real relationship. You know, because they've had so much practice at having them and then FAILING at them. Honestly, how silly to even say such a thing. I've known people who stayed in "common law" relationships for 40 years who got along ten million times better than married couples that had been together any amount of time more or less than that.
Reggie Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I honestly think that most women DO marry because they are IN LOVE with their H.. I truly do.. but I think for men it's different.. they don't see things as romantically as women do. It becomes, in the end, friends with benefit$ for both partners.. No way , Liz. Guys buy into the romance thing way more than women,IMO. I've seen this so many times. The dumbass guy(like me) beleiving his wife really gives a **** about him, when , in fact , she views him as a meal ticket or some other superficial BS. Don't see too many women marrying down financially. Guys will marry the pauper if she looks good and is nice. Women are much more calculating.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 To her credit, Lizzie is open. To my detriment, I've been married twice, proposed to six times. Seven, if you count the "Wanna?"..."Uh...nope" from the man who wuz dumberer than me.
Dominique Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I disagree that men are mainly concerned about stability. One could certainly make such a claim about women, who most often want to "snare" a husband in order to be taken care of, feel protected...Women leave when they feel restless or overwhelmed or didn't bother to foster their own independent identity-choosing instead to live through their husbands. Not necessarily because they are more independent spirits. Quite the contrary about men, I think that at the core they are passionate adventurers, and they never want to lose that sense of excitement, the discovery of life. What "stabilizes" them is a very noble sense of care, of being responsible to the women/children in their lives. A truly loving woman fosters the spirit within a man, encourages the ambitions and explorations he wants in life, and does not try to put out that fire. I am like that, anyway..... DOM
KismetGirl Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 No way , Liz. Guys buy into the romance thing way more than women,IMO. I've seen this so many times. The dumbass guy(like me) beleiving his wife really gives a **** about him, when , in fact , she views him as a meal ticket or some other superficial BS. Don't see too many women marrying down financially. Guys will marry the pauper if she looks good and is nice. Women are much more calculating. That's a little silly Reg. I've never relied on a man for everything or anything for that matter, and generally since I MYSELF am very successful, I would expect my partner to be on the same level as myself, which i dont think is wrong. The man I am in love with is a very intelligent and hardworking man, and that is what matters to me the most. He happens to work in a field where salaries are not high as compared to say, business or something, and in the next few years I will be making nearly 4 times what he makes, but that would be of no matter to me so long as he tired to do his part and wasn't some lazy bum. Intellect and motivation are more important to me than exact salary. Salary just happens to often coincide with those things. Don't generalize for all women, please, nowadays we are often just as well paid , or better paid, than our male partners.
Woggle Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I've got a question specifically for you, since you seem to think exactly like my H (although others, feel free to chime in). Where is the line drawn between discussion and argument? Do you think two people can have a discussion of issues without it being nagging/an argument? In theory it can happen but but most women seem incapable of it. You can't have a discussion with most women because everything a man says and does will be used against him even 20 years later. With another man we can come to blows and go out for a beer afterwards but with a woman I can look at her the wrong way and it will set of a chain reaction that results in her cheating on me and divorcing me because of her resentment. Men don't like to walk on eggshells so we tend to avoid any conflict at all with a woman.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 In theory it can happen but but most women seem incapable of it. You can't have a discussion with most women because everything a man says and does will be used against him even 20 years later. With another man we can come to blows and go out for a beer afterwards but with a woman I can look at her the wrong way and it will set of a chain reaction that results in her cheating on me and divorcing me because of her resentment. Men don't like to walk on eggshells so we tend to avoid any conflict at all with a woman. LOL, you're right. So should I just punch him in the face instead?
Woggle Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 LOL, you're right. So should I just punch him in the face instead? No just try and see things from his point of view.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 No just try and see things from his point of view. When I try that, I see that the only thing I can do is STFU, it doesn't matter if I have a problem with something or have a need to communicate, I should just stfu. Since that's not an option for me(LOL), what do I do?
Woggle Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 When I try that, I see that the only thing I can do is STFU, it doesn't matter if I have a problem with something or have a need to communicate, I should just stfu. Since that's not an option for me(LOL), what do I do? If you let him breathe a little he will eventually want to hear you out but now he sees you as a nag that he just wants to get away from. He is in defesne mode and when you want to argue he just shuts down.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 If you let him breathe a little he will eventually want to hear you out but now he sees you as a nag that he just wants to get away from. He is in defesne mode and when you want to argue he just shuts down. That's so true. The stfu I was talking about, too. *sigh*
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 12, 2008 Author Posted October 12, 2008 No way , Liz. Guys buy into the romance thing way more than women,IMO. I've seen this so many times. The dumbass guy(like me) beleiving his wife really gives a **** about him, when , in fact , she views him as a meal ticket or some other superficial BS. Don't see too many women marrying down financially. Guys will marry the pauper if she looks good and is nice. Women are much more calculating. I didn't check what 'pauper' means.. but it doesn't sound right.. see you're settling if you marry someone just because she looks good and is nice.. no need to be head over heels..
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 12, 2008 Author Posted October 12, 2008 That's a little silly Reg. I've never relied on a man for everything or anything for that matter, and generally since I MYSELF am very successful, I would expect my partner to be on the same level as myself, which i dont think is wrong. The man I am in love with is a very intelligent and hardworking man, and that is what matters to me the most. He happens to work in a field where salaries are not high as compared to say, business or something, and in the next few years I will be making nearly 4 times what he makes, but that would be of no matter to me so long as he tired to do his part and wasn't some lazy bum. Intellect and motivation are more important to me than exact salary. Salary just happens to often coincide with those things. Don't generalize for all women, please, nowadays we are often just as well paid , or better paid, than our male partners. This is true now.. though.. with younger people.. women, now, *good for us* are more independant financially... Some men WANTED their wife to stay at home.. jobs weren't as available for women.... and women back then had a lot more kids..so working outside the home wasn't much of an option. Women are getting THERE.. slowly but surely. I'm so happy when I hear stories like yours.. you will be a doctor.. financially secure.. smart and independant. Good for you... Gosh I'm getting old..
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 12, 2008 Author Posted October 12, 2008 That's so true. The stfu I was talking about, too. *sigh* sorry.. what is 'stfu' ?
Woggle Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Pauper is the opposite of prince which is a poor or working class person. Certain look down on a certain class even if a man has money. If a man is rich and is not part of the elite business class some women will still look down on him. STFU means Shut the eff up.
allina Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Well, it is human nature for people to cling on to ideas that validate their choices and lives. I am not shocked that a woman in a certain "predicament" feels the need to discredit love and marriage. I don't wonder why the OP takes each opportunity she has to gloat about her lifestyle, while discrediting romantic love. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Not to say that there are men, and women out there who don't feel the way that man feels. But for every man that does there is a man who is in love with his wife and thrilled to be with her. The issue with marriage isn't marriage its' self, it's the people that enter it and the circumstances they marry under. There are so many toxic relationships out there, a lot of them end in marriage, so of course there are loveless, dull marriages.
GPFan Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Not to say that there are men, and women out there who don't feel the way that man feels. But for every man that does there is a man who is in love with his wife and thrilled to be with her. I agree. Lizzie, bless her heart, has worked long and hard on these forums to disavow everyone of the notion that marriage can be anything but a disaster-in-the-making. That cannot be anymore universal than the romantic concept of two soulmates riding off into the sunset. As always, the truth lies somewhere in-between.
Touche Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 I agree. Lizzie, bless her heart, has worked long and hard on these forums to disavow everyone of the notion that marriage can be anything but a disaster-in-the-making. That cannot be anymore universal than the romantic concept of two soulmates riding off into the sunset. As always, the truth lies somewhere in-between. Wow! Truer words were never spoken. Totally agree.
fral945 Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 I agree. Lizzie, bless her heart, has worked long and hard on these forums to disavow everyone of the notion that marriage can be anything but a disaster-in-the-making. That cannot be anymore universal than the romantic concept of two soulmates riding off into the sunset. As always, the truth lies somewhere in-between. She is right, by today's standards for marriage it is a disaster in the making. The expectations are much different and much greater. The original intention of marriage was to have kids and make family ties. Romance, love, sexual gratification, etc. were all secondary and not expected. If they happened great, but they weren't requirements. If the standards today were the same as they originally started out to be marriages would be much more successful. The failure of marriage is a result of increased expectations and divorce as a more viable option.
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Posted October 13, 2008 She is right, by today's standards for marriage it is a disaster in the making. The expectations are much different and much greater. The original intention of marriage was to have kids and make family ties. Romance, love, sexual gratification, etc. were all secondary and not expected. If they happened great, but they weren't requirements. If the standards today were the same as they originally started out to be marriages would be much more successful. The failure of marriage is a result of increased expectations and divorce as a more viable option. Of course I'm right.. Time has changed... And I'd be curious.. the ones who disagree.. I'd be curious to know if their marriage/relationship has worked on a long term basis.. It's easy to say out loud..that marriage DO work when one's hasn't even had one who actually worked..
Trialbyfire Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 She is right, by today's standards for marriage it is a disaster in the making. The expectations are much different and much greater. The original intention of marriage was to have kids and make family ties. Romance, love, sexual gratification, etc. were all secondary and not expected. If they happened great, but they weren't requirements. If the standards today were the same as they originally started out to be marriages would be much more successful. The failure of marriage is a result of increased expectations and divorce as a more viable option. The failure of marriage is if you go into it with this kind of attitude. Marriage is best left for people who do believe in it. People who don't will only become another statistic.
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Posted October 13, 2008 The failure of marriage is if you go into it with this kind of attitude. Marriage is best left for people who do believe in it. People who don't will only become another statistic. Ha.. you're already a statistic.. no matter what your attitude is.. there is no hope these days and age, for a long term relationship/marriage .. whatever.. nothing even close to what our grandparents lived.. because in those years.. women could not leave.. now they do.. they don't take crap anymore.. and it's this is not just the point.. the point is.. no one can love the same person forever.. it just doesn't happen.
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Posted October 13, 2008 I'd be curious to know how many LSers are in their first marriage/relationship and has been for over 15-20 years.. My guess.. not too many... if any.
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