KismetGirl Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 I don't know that I agree with that. Maybe some women are like that, but it's always been my view that women are the emotional caretakers of a relationship. No, I dont believe so. Women ARE emotional, and more of the in-your-face emotional sort, but they often do not want to accept that men are emotional in a very different manner than women are. This is were disruption in the relationship occurs, when partners don't want to accept that there is a difference in how people express themselves. Today, for instance, I wanted to write an email to my MM for not calling me yesterday like he said he would. I wrote a long email detailing my hurt and frustration and attack, attack, attack. I deleted it. Want to know why? Because it won't help things the way I did it. Because I know him by now, and conflict and attcking only makes him retreat into his own head instead of considering the feelings involved on both ends. Instead, when I see him next time, I'll tell him that just as I understand when he's got to cancel plans because he has a legitimate reason to do so, he needs to understand that taking two minutes to call me when he said he will makes all the difference to me. Writing an email telling him he's an assh**le and a bad this, or a bad that, or he doesn't do this well enough, or he doesn't that well enough, or blah blah blah, is the very reason he has discontent in his marriage and the very reason many relationships fall to such levels. Women AND men are emotional, but in different ways, and the fact that one would think that women are the emotional caretakers in a relationship implies that a man his no conception of emotion and this is so wrong it isn't even funny. They are just different. Women (and please don't take offense, I am also a very typical woman sometimes when I let my feelings get to me) , women are very in-your-face about things, and this tends to make men retreat even further. Like I said, they don't like conflict. You need to find better ways to approach them. Women have a habit of saying "well, this is how things should be, and this isn't how you are doing them, so you are wrong", rather than saying, "i understand that you might see things differently, but this is how I see it, please tell me how you think we can work this out so we both are happy and compromising, so that you understand where i am coming from AND i can understand where you are coming from" just because women are more vocal about their emotions, does NOT mean they are the only ones that have emotions about the situation to begin with. get what Im saying?
KismetGirl Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Once again.. very well said. gosh I wish I could write as well... I have a hard time sometimes.. finding the right words and expressing what I really want to say.. Lol, thanks Lizzie. If I wasn't going to be a doctor I would have been a writer, just never thought being a writer wold be that lucrative. Considering how little sleep I get lately, Im surprised I can write a coherent sentence at all lately! ;-) :bunny:
Trialbyfire Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 More and more I'm beginning to realize that LS isn't a microcosm of real life or even close to it. This site is full of people who are cynical, either people who've been burned or people who have burned others. Yes, I've been burned too! Yes, there are men AND women who are bored in marriage due to settling or growing in different directions. Yes, there are men AND women who engage in affairs due to all sorts of reasons of which primarily, it's internal v. external. But... There are many people in real life and on LS who believe in marriage. It's a wonderful institution if viewed as such, with the right combination of individuals who believe in it. Nothing wrong or in denial about this. The impression I get from this thread is that it's intended to "expose" an entire gender's attitude for whatever the OPs personal reasons, be they ones of cynicism, validation for lifestyle or validation for historical lack of marriage. Sure, there are men just like this but he doesn't represent men in their entirety. There are also men who aren't like this so if any woman wants to have a lasting marriage, it's up to her to find a man with the corresponding attitude. As for the assumption that "all" men are commitment phobic, I will strongly have to disagree due to personal experiences.
marlena Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 I tend to agree with Lizzie's opening post. Most men, epsecially older men, view marriage in a practical sense (childen,homekeeper,cook,sex,company, security etc... ) while women tend to view marriage on a more emotional level. It is part of the overall different wiring system that exists between the two sexes. This is not to say that they do not have feelings, they do of course, but often these feelings are overidden by more practical matters. That is why you see that many men do not marry the person that they are madly in love with but rather someone who they think would make a more suitable life partner. As for the married ones, they hardly ever leave the convenience of their home life for another woman regardless of how passionately in love they may be.
81West Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Touche, You sound like a class act. Especially that part where those raising children in different circumstances she may know nothing about 'sickens' her. Stay classy girls.
PandorasBox Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 "More and more I'm beginning to realize that LS isn't a microcosm of real life or even close to it. This site is full of people who are cynical, either people who've been burned or people who have burned others. Yes, I've been burned too!" I agree. I have been burned as well, and I think most people have at some point in their lives. I refuse to let that make me bitter or cynical too. I'm in control of my life, feelings emotions etc. If I walk around bitter and cyincal, then it means the ones who made me that way have won and I will always have a distored/negative view about relationships and other things in life. I'm so glad I choose to NOT be like that.
Trialbyfire Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 I agree. I have been burned as well, and I think most people have at some point in their lives. I refuse to let that make me bitter or cynical too. I'm in control of my life, feelings emotions etc. If I walk around bitter and cyincal, then it means the ones who made me that way have won and I will always have a distored/negative view about relationships and other things in life. I'm so glad I choose to NOT be like that. Good for you! I can't say I'm not cynical but there's no way I would be arrogant enough to paint the entire male gender with my personal cynicism. I've seen and had relationships with men who aren't like this. There really are men out there who aren't as jaded or cynical. If women find themselves surrounded by men of this kind, there's only one constant. Time to break out of that kind of environment or break personal habits of attracting the wrong kind of man.
PandorasBox Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Good for you! I can't say I'm not cynical but there's no way I would be arrogant enough to paint the entire male gender with my personal cynicism. I've seen and had relationships with men who aren't like this. There really are men out there who aren't as jaded or cynical. If women find themselves surrounded by men of this kind, there's only one constant. Time to break out of that kind of environment or break personal habits of attracting the wrong kind of man. I understand, and agree.
carhill Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Women (and please don't take offense, I am also a very typical woman sometimes when I let my feelings get to me) , women are very in-your-face about things, and this tends to make men retreat even further. Like I said, they don't like conflict. A man retreats because he knows that, if he confronts and shows his emotions, two things will happen: 1. His woman will be mad at him for a long, long time and will never forget one word that he has said and will bring it up anytime she's mad at him in the future. 2. He won't get laid How do I know this? Because I'm a confronter and out there with my emotions. This has been my life experience with numerous women, including my wife. In this regard, they have all been the same. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's there. If a man is going to routinely confront a woman (or women) emotionally, he has to get used to one and two above.
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 11, 2008 Author Posted October 11, 2008 A man retreats because he knows that, if he confronts and shows his emotions, two things will happen: 1. His woman will be mad at him for a long, long time and will never forget one word that he has said and will bring it up anytime she's mad at him in the future. 2. He won't get laid How do I know this? Because I'm a confronter and out there with my emotions. This has been my life experience with numerous women, including my wife. In this regard, they have all been the same. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's there. If a man is going to routinely confront a woman (or women) emotionally, he has to get used to one and two above. and my bet is that they aren't confrontional for that reason..
Woggle Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Men do battle all day in the world in whatever profession or path we might take in life so why the hell would we want to go home and do more battle? We tend to view home as a place of peace where we can escape from the world so that is why we tend to retreat when women want to start yet another argument. Most men feel that if we aren't getting nagged all day everyday then it is a pretty good marriage so why leave and let our emotions get the best of us?
You'reasian Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Today I had a long conversation with a work colleague.. there is absolutely no chemistry on my part.. he's just a very nice guy... Anyway.. we were talking about marriage in general, he's been married for over 15 years I think.. and he said that a lot of men marry because they just want to settle down with a nice woman, who they also chose to be the mother of their kids.. He said that a lot of times, the woman is way more in love with her husband than the husband is with her and it's her that wants the big wedding and all the fla-flas.. he said, for a lot of men, weddings are only a waste of money. For him, marriage is more to 'shack up', split all the bills, get financially stable.. have kids, but most of all, have sex whenever he wants.. no need to do all the 'dating/courting sh*t'... He said he's not in love anymore but is fine with the monotony of the everyday life.. he said after so many years, you get used to it.. He said most of his guy friends has the same opinion about marriage.. Humm.. we talked about soo many aspects of the marriage.. It's not the first time that I hear something like that, I think his opinions reflect those of many men.. who, most of the time, if they think like him. are just too chicken to admit it. We guys think about managing money, reproducing, hunting/building (work) etc. so your portrayal isn't too far off. However, each man has his own version of courting his woman - and it depends on the guys personality, experience etc. What women want us to do may not match up with what we are willing or want to do in a courtship. For instance, if I want to really make my woman feel good I am going to go out and pick her a bunch of wild flowers, trim them and present them to her. If we're not doing anything special, I might try to serenade her (darned dogs barking). Hell, I may not sing like Pavorotti, but I make an effort. Who knows, I might even draw up a bath for the both of us and bring up some wine... If she doesn't notice or appreciate little things like this, then she's not in my league - make sense?
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 11, 2008 Author Posted October 11, 2008 Men do battle all day in the world in whatever profession or path we might take in life so why the hell would we want to go home and do more battle? We tend to view home as a place of peace where we can escape from the world so that is why we tend to retreat when women want to start yet another argument. Most men feel that if we aren't getting nagged all day everyday then it is a pretty good marriage so why leave and let our emotions get the best of us? WOW.... you make it sound like the woman do eff all... all day in the big nasty world out there..
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 11, 2008 Author Posted October 11, 2008 We guys think about managing money, reproducing, hunting/building (work) etc. so your portrayal isn't too far off. However, each man has his own version of courting his woman - and it depends on the guys personality, experience etc. What women want us to do may not match up with what we are willing or want to do in a courtship. For instance, if I want to really make my woman feel good I am going to go out and pick her a bunch of wild flowers, trim them and present them to her. If we're not doing anything special, I might try to serenade her (darned dogs barking). Hell, I may not sing like Pavorotti, but I make an effort. Who knows, I might even draw up a bath for the both of us and bring up some wine... If she doesn't notice or appreciate little things like this, then she's not in my league - make sense? I've been thinking about this conversation and the other one I had with my single FWB, and this bus driver (I should say abused husband).... it makes me remember other similar conversations I had with other guys as well..
You'reasian Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Women also respond differently to the things we do for them. I'm sure there are women that would melt at the fact that their boyfriend does these little things for them and it drives them crazy (in a good way of course)... other women are probably appreciative at some level. and others forget that it even happened.
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 11, 2008 Author Posted October 11, 2008 Women also respond differently to the things we do for them. I'm sure there are women that would melt at the fact that their boyfriend does these little things for them and it drives them crazy (in a good way of course)... other women are probably appreciative at some level. and others forget that it even happened. I know what you're saying but that goes the other way too. Some women DO A LOT for their man.. but he's still out there cheating..
You'reasian Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 I know what you're saying but that goes the other way too. Some women DO A LOT for their man.. but he's still out there cheating.. Well then, you need to match up the guy who wants to court a woman with the woman who is going to appreciate it (or do a lot) for their man. The tricky part if they can get along or not
Woggle Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 WOW.... you make it sound like the woman do eff all... all day in the big nasty world out there.. Women do as well but for some reason they don't seem to have the same appreciation for peace and relaxation that men do. When men leave work we want to leave it there while women want to go home and blame all their problems of the day on their men.
Geishawhelk Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Oh Woggle, that's really a bit of an exaggeration, and you know it! I have never, ever blamed my bad day on my man! Unless, of course, he really did something DELIBERATELY to ruin my day! But no man would even ever consider doing anything like that at all. Which is just about as accurate and true as your assessment. And both yours and mine, incidentally, are interchangeable.....
You'reasian Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 Women do as well but for some reason they don't seem to have the same appreciation for peace and relaxation that men do. When men leave work we want to leave it there while women want to go home and blame all their problems of the day on their men. Good point, mate!
GPFan Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 I'm not real sure why it even matters. I mean, for someone who is doing exactly what they want to do (which is fine) there seems to be to much trying to figure out or talk about WHY men (mostly) want to marry, don't want to marry, if they are setttling, or really inlove etc, etc. People do what they want for their very own reasons.I understand the curiosity as cynicism can be a burden it would be wonderful to have a strong basis for shaking it off. I do have a question for Lizzie, how many times have you been legally married versus 'shacking up'? How many serious proposals of marriage have you received?
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Men do battle all day in the world in whatever profession or path we might take in life so why the hell would we want to go home and do more battle? We tend to view home as a place of peace where we can escape from the world so that is why we tend to retreat when women want to start yet another argument. Most men feel that if we aren't getting nagged all day everyday then it is a pretty good marriage so why leave and let our emotions get the best of us? I've got a question specifically for you, since you seem to think exactly like my H (although others, feel free to chime in). Where is the line drawn between discussion and argument? Do you think two people can have a discussion of issues without it being nagging/an argument?
lonelyandfrustrated Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I understand the curiosity as cynicism can be a burden it would be wonderful to have a strong basis for shaking it off. I do have a question for Lizzie, how many times have you been legally married versus 'shacking up'? How many serious proposals of marriage have you received? WTF does that matter? Would an answer of two or twenty sway your feelings?
Author Lizzie60 Posted October 12, 2008 Author Posted October 12, 2008 I understand the curiosity as cynicism can be a burden it would be wonderful to have a strong basis for shaking it off. I do have a question for Lizzie, how many times have you been legally married versus 'shacking up'? How many serious proposals of marriage have you received? I never believed in marriage.. With my first ex, I lived common-law 18 years AFTER an 11 year affair. (total of 29 years, which is a loooong time).. then I lived common-law with my 2nd ex for 5 years.. he wanted to marry me on my 50th bd. I left before.. I never believed in the 'vows'.. that's religious B/S..
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