Star Gazer Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 As some of you know, I'm dealing with the death of someone very close to me. I'm not a religious person, but I consider myself very spiritual. I've found the most helpful support to be the kind that sort of explains why people die and when, and what happens when they do. Does anyone have any thoughts or inspiration like this to share?
JamesM Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Truthfully, no one knows what happens to people when they die. While many religions have explanations, the atheists have one, too. Now the explanation with the most support and evidence in my eyes is that we either go to Heaven or Hell. This is based on not so much as how we lived but Whom we lived for. Not knowing your grandma, I certainly cannot say where I think she is. However, you are in a much better position to answer that. If you believe that she went to heaven, then you can derive great comfort from the fact that she will be happier there than she could ever be here...and this will be forever. And knowing that should comfort you....she has no more pain or worry. While for your comfort, I can understand why you would want her back, she is much better off in heaven. We should not want to wish our loved ones back to this earth which is full of troubles and sicknesses if they are in heaven which has no pain or sickness. The hardest part of the death of a loved one IMO is not where they are but the fact that we must part from them. I extend my sympathy to you, Star. It is a difficult time. While time will lessen the pain, it will not erase the good memories that you have of her.
westrock Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 I'm sorry for your loss. Why do people die? There is the physical reason in that their body systems could no longer function. Spiritually, one can say that the person has achieved a higher level of understanding and no longer needs to be here physically. Physically the person has passed on. But, take comfort in knowing that spritually she is still alive. You can see this by just looking around at all the wonderful things she has done in her life that continues on in her children, grandchildren and so on... all the people she touched. Her ideas, thoughts, and character traits that are expressed through others are all reminders that she is still here in spirit.
quankanne Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 take comfort in knowing that spiritually she is still alive. You can see this by just looking around at all the wonderful things she has done in her life that continues on in her children, grandchildren and so on... all the people she touched. Her ideas, thoughts, and character traits that are expressed through others are all reminders that she is still here in spirit. star, look up the lyrics to "Lullabye," by Billy Joel. He has a beautiful way of telling his daughter that even though someone maybe gone, their essence lives on, to a point where it gets shared by people who never even knew the deceased and it makes an impact on their lives. It's a reality I can embrace because I see it happening in my life and in others' ...
Tony T Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 The closest anybody has come to explaining death, in my opinion, was writer Kahlil Gibran in The Prophet written many years ago. Go here for what he wrote about death: http://www.katsandogz.com/ondeath.html
2sunny Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 my heart is heavy for you SG- i like to think that we have the privilege of all the good memories of them and we get to carry them around in our hearts forever. they will always be a part of our soul... that only the special people in the world can touch.
Kamille Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 I'm agnostic so the question for me has never been why people die but to marvel that people live, love and share. Your grandmother meant a lot to you and you obviously meant a lot to her. That love is what makes the two of you human and, also, what makes her eternal. I am thankful for the people I have known - namely my favorite uncle who died this summer. If anything - his death, one we knew was coming, made me realize how important it was to take time for my loved ones. I refuse to take anyone's life for granted. It is a gift bestowed upon us.
Geishawhelk Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Well, others have posted from a Christian POV, so if it's any help, and you do say you are more a spiritual person than a religious one, permit me the liberty to talk to you from a Buddhist perspective. I posted in your other thread, and I don't know if you saw that... We become very distressed about Death because we don't think about it enough, or face the fact that everything and everyone passes on. I have people I love to bits, many people, very close to me, but I reflect on both my death, and theirs, frequently. As far as a Buddist is concerned, death is imaginary. Think of all the things that made your grandma the person she was. Her arms? Legs? body? face? hair? No. Everyone has those. She was identifiable in those ways, but they were not Who She Was. Who she was, was in her Mind and in her Heart. In Buddhism, we refer to these unique attributes, as The Self. Everything external to us is an Effect. But who we are, and what we make of ourselves depends on our own Effort, Progress and how we permit these effects to Affect us. Your Grandma's finished with her body, but she ain't done living yet! He Self will be reborn, and will re-manifest in some other form. Let me put it this way. Take a Candle. Light it. Now take a second, different candle, and light it from the first. Blow the first candle out. This second candle.... Is the flame the same one as the other....? Or is it a different flame? Somewhere, on this earth, will be an offspring born and renewed with a vigour and zest for life. Don't ever think of looking for your grandma. You would never either find her, nor recognise her, because many other factors are present for re-birth. But somewhere, the spring and zeal, the joy and goodness of your Grandma, will be present elsewhere. This is a simplistic explanation of why I am of the opinion that your Grandma's gone nowhere.
ed-205 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 I am sorry for your loss, Star Gazer. All I can say is that I remember visiting my father a day after he had his near death experience, and he spoke of it with a fervor and enthusiasm unlike anything I'd ever seen in him before. He openly wept as he told me of it, and said he did *not* want to return to this life, he simply had no choice. "NEVER be afraid to die!", he told me over and over again. As soon as he was able, he established a living will stating that under NO circumstances was he to be revived the next time he died. Knowing how he felt about it went a long way in helping me deal with his passing several years later. No one really knows what happens when we die, but since we have to believe in *something*, I personally choose to believe that it will be an experience of great joy and wonder, as did my father.
Ronni_W Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 I'm sorry for your loss, Star. How I made sense of my dad's death, was to separate 'him' from his body. So, for me, his body had certainly died...but 'he' certainly did not. For a very long time after his death, that was more like a thought that I just chose to believe. But I've since accumulated enough evidence for myself, to know that I wasn't all that far off...for me, it's a knowing now, that is very comforting. Very much like the lyrics of 'I Believe' by Diamond Rio. First time I heard that, I cried for about a weekend. And it's a really pretty melody, too, if you wanted to listen to it. Praying you Strength, Inspiration and Peace. Ronni
wuggle Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 After having spent a lot of time looking for the reason we are all here, why we live and die, Having looked at most religions and formal belief systems I have basically disarded most of them. The fact that you are sad for and miss someone close to you says more about why we are all here than anything else. I think (I suppose I am an athiest ?!) that we are all here to grow and evolve, not just as individuals but as a society and species. I think our lives can be measured in how we relate to and advance those around us. If you can remember things that the person you lost taught you, or help they gave you, or feelings they made you feel, this may be the 'meaning' of thier life. A good life 'advances' those around them and makes them better people. A bad life is one that is not remembered by anyone. You miss this Person, Bad people usually aren't missed !
Sks Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 Well the most basic answer, is to allow evolution to continue. I don't know what happens when I die, maybe nothing - I just cease to exist, maybe something does. Either way all that matters to me now is what is in front of me. When it comes to us, even after we die the impact of our lives ripples throughout the world, even if its minor. So we all had an effect on world, changing its outcome.
sb129 Posted October 14, 2008 Posted October 14, 2008 take comfort in knowing that spritually she is still alive. You can see this by just looking around at all the wonderful things she has done in her life that continues on in her children, grandchildren and so on... all the people she touched. Her ideas, thoughts, and character traits that are expressed through others are all reminders that she is still here in spirit. Star- I am very sorry to hear of your loss. Westrock put it beautifully- you know I am not a religious person, but anyone can take comfort from a statement like that. Be strong.
Author Star Gazer Posted October 14, 2008 Author Posted October 14, 2008 But somewhere, the spring and zeal, the joy and goodness of your Grandma, will be present elsewhere. This is a simplistic explanation of why I am of the opinion that your Grandma's gone nowhere. The day after she passed, I was in the drive through of McDonald's. As I waited there, the wind in NorCal was literally shaking my car. My window was down, and next to me was a little bush. The bush was just being gently jostled by the wind. I felt her there right next to me, the air/wind touching that bush. It's hard to explain, but I knew she was there. In energy, or something. I think our lives can be measured in how we relate to and advance those around us. If you can remember things that the person you lost taught you, or help they gave you, or feelings they made you feel, this may be the 'meaning' of thier life. A good life 'advances' those around them and makes them better people. A bad life is one that is not remembered by anyone. You miss this Person, Bad people usually aren't missed ! Oh jeez. Here come the tears!!! She absolutely advanced my life and made me a better person. Without her in my life during my formative years, I'd probably be... a loser. Ha. Last night and today have been the hardest so far.
disgracian Posted October 18, 2008 Posted October 18, 2008 Bleak but no less likely true because of it. We of course have no memory of life before we were born. There was nothing for us before that moment, so why ought there be anything afterwards? Cheers, D.
NWSTRT2121 Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 . A bad life is one that is not remembered by anyone. You miss this Person, Bad people usually aren't missed ! I almost feel like I shouldn't be responding to this thread Star Gazer because I don't want you to think my intentions are to get you to start thinking that I am a Christian who is here to tell you what the correct answer is and that I think everyone else on this thread is wrong. I only want to tell you what my heart is telling me when I read this. I am also trying to point out what I personally disagree with in wuggle's statement. I used to always want people to look back on me and remember me as this icon for some incredible feat I did that contributed towards the betterment of the world. But over the last months as I've accepted Jesus into my life, he spoke a truth to me that really struck my heart as something that felt right. Recently I was reading Rick Warren's book A Purpose Driven Life and there was a sentence that really struck me, "You weren't put on earth to be remembered. You were put here to prepare for eternity." Hundreds and hundreds of years from now Star Gazer, no one may know of your grandma and your family lineage might be lost that would trace back to your grandmother and who she was. Now I don't know if your grandmother was religious or not, but she sounded like a wonderful human being who made wonderful contributions to the world around her and obviously had a pretty positive impact on yourself. In my heart, I feel that she will be judged favorably and will have the opportunity to be in an even better place where she has the opportunity to contribute her heart and soul to whatever her purpose in this new eternal existence may be. Peace be with you and your grandmother, Chris
chris250 Posted November 26, 2008 Posted November 26, 2008 As some of you know, I'm dealing with the death of someone very close to me. I'm not a religious person, but I consider myself very spiritual. I've found the most helpful support to be the kind that sort of explains why people die and when, and what happens when they do. Does anyone have any thoughts or inspiration like this to share? Well to give you my perspective I am a christian universalist. I believe everyone goes to heaven. I'm sorry for your loss. You will be reunited with this person one day in heaven for sure. I believe that heaven is going to be an awesome party that the entire human race will join for sure. As to why we die in the first place? I have no idea but the good news is that Jesus Christ defeated death through His resurrection. We all have eternal life in Him. So rest assured that your loved one is at eternal peace with God.
Ross PK Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 I think maybe it is possible for us to still be aware after we die, since self awareness seems to be something seperate from the brain.
Tony T Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 LS members NEVER die. They just hang around to keep threads going on forever!
Outcast Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 LS members NEVER die. They just hang around to keep threads going on forever! Geeze, truer words were never spoken! I'm guessing the list of posters with >1000 posts is a few hundred pages thick now. < Just because he's sooooo cute!
Author Star Gazer Posted December 26, 2008 Author Posted December 26, 2008 Geeze, truer words were never spoken! I'm guessing the list of posters with >1000 posts is a few hundred pages thick now. < Just because he's sooooo cute! WOW! Haven't seen you around here in a lonnnnnng time!
LittleDove Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 Star Sorry for your loss. I understand, I lost someone VERY close to me, my Granfather, who was like my rock and 'entire family'...we were close. Why do we die?? I guess because if we all lived forever, there would be too many of us! and our bodies break down, and sadly, must stop... I cant say what happens when we die, I can only say that I have had an experience when I felt my granfather was so close and by my side.. quite recently and he passed away 2 years ago. I lost 2 babies since he passed, and ive dreamt he has one craddled in each arm. I believe the essence of a person sometimes lingers, or visits.. I also believe that health is restored in death- there is no pain or suffering. Xmas is horrible without him, and I miss having that friend in my life. We would talk daily. He lives on in ways, in my thoughts, in what he left behind for his family, in the lessons he taught me, and the way I live my life, all influenced by him. He even taught me to drive- so many things he gave that live on... In time you will have memories and smile, not cry. Remembering my granpa gives me joy. I made a box and filled it with photos and memories, letters we had written eachother- his watch a few items, and when im feeling down, I take a look through the special box. It makes me feel close to him again. At the end of the day- nothing will ease the pain, or make it all better. Its hard and a part of 'life'. I guess death makes us grow up in ways we never imagined.. all the best star.(((hugs)))
Ross PK Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 It's weird to think we'll still exist after we die, but just in a different form. As evey single atom that makes us up will still exist after we die, and they've always existed since the early begining of the universe.
disgracian Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 "I'm made of atoms, you're made of atoms, and we're all in this together." Cheers, D.
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