Whisperings from the Beach

[blueberry]

Greetings and Salutations,

 

A bit of public self-flagellation if I may.....

 

He emailed me from Mauritius last night. 'Missing you, want to see you when I am back, kisses, pet-names, etc'.

 

And like the bit of fluff that I am, I responded.

 

So annoyed with myself.

 

One thing in my defence, I didn't say anything about meeting up, pet-names, kisses, etc. I said work was fine, glad he was having a wonderful time. Kept it pretty generic.

 

He responded straight away. I left it at that.

 

Things I know:

 

1. He can't respect me much seeing as I asked for no contact - and for his email to be so "lovey-dovey" was quite frankly a slap in the face. DID HE NOT HEAR ME SAY NO CONTACT? Or was that merely selective hearing?

 

2. I'm pathetic for responding. From those 2 little sentences he now knows I am a pushover. Doesn't matter that I wasn't "lovey-dovey" in return. Fact is: I responded. His foot is back in the door.

 

3. I didn't back myself up with actions. Didn't follow-through. Didn't do what I said I was going to do.

 

4. I'm pathetic for responding.

 

5. I'm pathetic for responding.

 

 

 

Chain me to my colonial post - I'm ready for my public flogging.

[Billie63]

Just email him right now saying:

 

"I told you no NC. Please don't make me be horrible to you. Do not contact me under any circumstances again."

 

Send it and stick by it. Do not reply to his reply.

[Owl]

You're not pathetic for responding.

 

You ARE however, responding in the completely wrong fashion.

 

Your response...at the least, should have been along the lines of:

"Oh, this must have been meant for your FIANCE, because I KNOW that you know better than to send anything like this to me!!!"

 

Better would have been simply something along the lines of:

 

"Email forwarded on to HR and to your fiance. Enjoy your trip!"

 

 

As long as you keep letting him play these games, its going to continue. AS LONG AS HE DOES NOT SUFFER CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS, IT WILL CONTINUE.

 

He NEEDS to suffer consequences for his actions if you want this situation to change.

 

Make sense?

[blueberry]

You're not pathetic for responding.

 

You ARE however, responding in the completely wrong fashion.

 

Your response...at the least, should have been along the lines of:

"Oh, this must have been meant for your FIANCE, because I KNOW that you know better than to send anything like this to me!!!"

 

He NEEDS to suffer consequences for his actions if you want this situation to change.

 

Make sense?

 

Love it! But yes, chortling aside, you are absolutely correct. I responded really without thinking about it. (ok ok - maybe I shoved it to the back of my mind, wrote a response, hit send and then allowed myself to say "oops").

 

And yes it makes sense.

 

And yes... he needs to suffer consequences.

 

Or just suffer.

[Reggie]

LOts of folks have fits and starts re the no contact. You just reinstate it and abide by it from here out and you will be fine. No more drama, eh?

[GreenEyedLady]

And yes... he needs to suffer consequences.

 

Or just suffer.

 

Aww, you're starting to get it.

 

MAKE HIM SUFFER.

 

When he texts/emails something like that, you very NONCHALLANTLY (SP?) tell him you've got plans, hope he's having a nice time.

 

I promise you, it works.

[Angel1111]

Do what I did last night to my xMM. We're still friends and still talk a lot but now that he's coming into town in a couple of weeks, he's starting to amp up the attention and sweet stuff and it just hit me the wrong way yesterday, i.e. I reached the end of my rope. So we talked about it a little but I downplayed it and pretended I was ok with everything. Then I got pissed off and decided that I was accomplishing nothing by pretending like that. So I texted him and told him that I had not been completely honest with him, that what we talked about actually did bug me, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

Since you feel like you screwed up, you're probably wondering how to unscrew it, right? Here's an idea - just email him back and say, "hey, you know for a second there, your charm sucked me right back in when I already said that I wanted NC. But I have come to my senses and I won't let myself slip up like that again. So, again, please stop contacting me. I wish you the best."

 

What do ya think?

[LakesideDream]

Question on NC. If one partner in a relationsip asks for NC and the other partner doesen't agree (Usually female asks male), why is that a "lack of respect" or even a bad thing?

 

NC is a form of manipulation. NC is withholding emotions and sometimes more. Sometimes appropriate, sometimes good, sometimes not good.

 

No contact might be necessary for a persons peace of mind, but it the overall, it's just another tactic in the game of love.

[Angel1111]

Question on NC. If one partner in a relationsip asks for NC and the other partner doesen't agree (Usually female asks male), why is that a "lack of respect" or even a bad thing?

 

NC is a form of manipulation. NC is withholding emotions and sometimes more. Sometimes appropriate, sometimes good, sometimes not good.

 

No contact might be necessary for a persons peace of mind, but it the overall, it's just another tactic in the game of love.

 

For the most part, I'm totally with you on the NC front. I refer to it as emotional Prozac - overused and misunderstood. But there are those rare cases where it's appropriate when someone is abusive - NC is the best route to go. I don't know what the circumstances are in this case but, I concur, it's usually used as a form of manipulation and has no real basis.

[Dominique]

 

As long as you keep letting him play these games, its going to continue. AS LONG AS HE DOES NOT SUFFER CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS, IT WILL CONTINUE.

 

He NEEDS to suffer consequences for his actions if you want this situation to change.

 

Make sense?

 

Right here---what all ladies doing NC must keep in mind.

 

It's all about psychology. Change is forced out of person. Fire fought with fire. You just tune your mind to the right frequency.

 

DOM

[Dominique]

NC is a form of manipulation. NC is withholding emotions and sometimes more. Sometimes appropriate, sometimes good, sometimes not good.

 

No contact might be necessary for a persons peace of mind, but it the overall, it's just another tactic in the game of love.

 

 

I disagree with this. It is not a form of manipulation, nor a "tactic".

 

When serious (that means, adhered to) NC is simply how one ends an unhealthy, going-nowhere, dead-end relationship. It calls the bluff on one partner's words-without-actions, and it restores the NC instigator's peace of mind (although most live with inward emotional chaos for some time). If NC happens to bring about a happy result, it is because the enforced separation caused one partner to reconsider his(her) feelings and ultimate goals. How is that "manipulation"? It is the most sane and logical thing to do....If terribly difficult.

 

DOM

[Owl]

Question on NC. If one partner in a relationsip asks for NC and the other partner doesen't agree (Usually female asks male), why is that a "lack of respect" or even a bad thing?

 

NC is a form of manipulation. NC is withholding emotions and sometimes more. Sometimes appropriate, sometimes good, sometimes not good.

 

No contact might be necessary for a persons peace of mind, but it the overall, it's just another tactic in the game of love.

 

It depends on what GOAL you intend to accomplish by NC.

 

If your goal is to go NC to force him to make a decision or take an action (i.e... leave his wife)...then yes, its a tactic intended to manipulate a desired outcome in the relationship.

 

If you go NC with the goal of ENDING the affair completely...its not a tacticto manipulate the relationship...its a method or protecting yourself and taking action on YOUR part to achieve the goals for yourself.

 

See the difference?

 

In the OP's situation, she's trying to completely end and break off the affair. She's not providing a "conditional NC" that requires him to do something. Ergo..its not manipulation.

[KismetGirl]

Love it! But yes, chortling aside, you are absolutely correct. I responded really without thinking about it. (ok ok - maybe I shoved it to the back of my mind, wrote a response, hit send and then allowed myself to say "oops").

 

And yes it makes sense.

 

And yes... he needs to suffer consequences.

 

Or just suffer.

 

maybe you should imply you'll tell his fiance if he refuses to respect your request for NC. I know alot of the time that I try to bring up things with MM, I don't say it firmly enough and he thinks Im joking, etc.

 

But Im pretty sure if I said "Leave me alone or I will tell your wife every dirty thing we have done, and show her every pathetic email you have written me" he'd run screaming and begging my forgiveness and promising never to speak to me again.

 

You are a stronger woman than I to be able to even ask for NC right now, it's something I have alot of trouble even starting, but you have taken that huge step of asking for it. if he's not respecting this, he is not taking you seriously, and if you need to be a bit of a b*tch by threatening to get your point across, so be it.

 

The nerve, to email you such crap while on vacation with her? AND after you've told him to piss off. Seriously, but I guess after some of the things I've heard you say he's done it's not too surprising is it?

 

Seriously, try the "threatening to tell fiance" route.

 

Then, if he continues, maybe you should tell her. There's no kids involved yet, thank god, and you'd probably be saving her a world of pain in teh future.....

[KismetGirl]

maybe you should imply you'll tell his fiance if he refuses to respect your request for NC. I know alot of the time that I try to bring up things with MM, I don't say it firmly enough and he thinks Im joking, etc.

 

But Im pretty sure if I said "Leave me alone or I will tell your wife every dirty thing we have done, and show her every pathetic email you have written me" he'd run screaming and begging my forgiveness and promising never to speak to me again.

 

You are a stronger woman than I to be able to even ask for NC right now, it's something I have alot of trouble even starting, but you have taken that huge step of asking for it. if he's not respecting this, he is not taking you seriously, and if you need to be a bit of a b*tch by threatening to get your point across, so be it.

 

The nerve, to email you such crap while on vacation with her? AND after you've told him to piss off. Seriously, but I guess after some of the things I've heard you say he's done it's not too surprising is it?

 

Seriously, try the "threatening to tell fiance" route.

 

Then, if he continues, maybe you should tell her. There's no kids involved yet, thank god, and you'd probably be saving her a world of pain in teh future.....

 

PS- and you aren't pathetic. Love can often be like an addiction. I wouldn't fault an alcoholic for taking a shot if his friends kept putting drinks in front of him all night even though he asked them not too, especially not right after he's started the journey to sobriety. This is no different. Despite making a bold and strong move, you ARE still vulnerable to him, and he is feeding that weakness. Tell him to shove his lovey words up his bum and delete his emails without opening them. Maybe block him in yoru email settings?

[KismetGirl]

Question on NC. If one partner in a relationsip asks for NC and the other partner doesen't agree (Usually female asks male), why is that a "lack of respect" or even a bad thing?

 

NC is a form of manipulation. NC is withholding emotions and sometimes more. Sometimes appropriate, sometimes good, sometimes not good.

 

No contact might be necessary for a persons peace of mind, but it the overall, it's just another tactic in the game of love.

 

 

i disagree. A person has a right to end a relationship of any kind, and to request someone not to speak to them. Some people might use it as a tactic if they are really hoping that the "reverse psychology" way of thinking might work to their benefit (eg- maybe he'll realize what he has once he no longer has it). But i think in this case Blueberry is really trying to move on and the only way to do that is to cut off contact with MM. What else would you have her do? Continue the affair ? Because that is the healthier option? I wish I had the cajones to start NC with my MM right now, I just haven't the strength to do it yet. It is by far the hradest decision to make, not to be reduced to some mere tactic in the game of love. Some may use it as such, but some really need to do it for their own sanity to end a bad relationship where the other person just won't give it up.

[Owl]

PS- and you aren't pathetic. Love can often be like an addiction. I wouldn't fault an alcoholic for taking a shot if his friends kept putting drinks in front of him all night even though he asked them not too, especially not right after he's started the journey to sobriety. This is no different. Despite making a bold and strong move, you ARE still vulnerable to him, and he is feeding that weakness. Tell him to shove his lovey words up his bum and delete his emails without opening them. Maybe block him in yoru email settings?

 

I would fault him...

 

...because if he wants to be sober, he might well have to face the reality that he's going to need new friends too. He can't just expect things to get better...he's got to take an active role in the changes that have to happen in order for him to succeed.

 

He needs to get up, walk away from his friends, leave the bar, and most of all...STOP PUTTING HIMSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE HE IS FORCED TO FIGHT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

Going into the bar with his friends got him there. Hanging out with friends who drink got him there.

 

If the OP wants the situation to change, she has to take charge of enforcing the changes. She has to OWN resolving the issue.

 

That might mean she has to get a new job, or seek action against MM if he wont' stop harassing her.

 

If she sits there and does nothing, she's just as much to blame for the situation as she is.

 

See the difference?

[KismetGirl]

I would fault him...

 

...because if he wants to be sober, he might well have to face the reality that he's going to need new friends too. He can't just expect things to get better...he's got to take an active role in the changes that have to happen in order for him to succeed.

 

He needs to get up, walk away from his friends, leave the bar, and most of all...STOP PUTTING HIMSELF IN SITUATIONS WHERE HE IS FORCED TO FIGHT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

Going into the bar with his friends got him there. Hanging out with friends who drink got him there.

 

If the OP wants the situation to change, she has to take charge of enforcing the changes. She has to OWN resolving the issue.

 

That might mean she has to get a new job, or seek action against MM if he wont' stop harassing her.

 

If she sits there and does nothing, she's just as much to blame for the situation as she is.

 

See the difference?

 

Owl, you're misunderstanding me. i didn't say she has to sit there and do nothing, i said that I would not fault her or an alcoholic for slipping up when they are jsut beginning the road to recovery.

 

Trust me, I know. I work in a hospital specifically with addicts every day :-)

 

Giving up an addiction does require a re-oragnizing of your life. I tell my addicts they must give up their triggers- namely the people, places and things that "trigger" them to use drugs or alcohol or whatever they are addicted to.

 

BUT, it is not something that is easily done in one step in one day. It is hard to just give up all yoru friens in one day. jsut because you tell them you need to do this for yourslf, doesnt mean there is one person out there who doesn't understand your need to be taken seriously.

 

A person will always have temptation, but they shouldnt be chastised for slipping up once or even twice. Recovery is a long road full of relapses.

 

I did tell her she has to make action, she has to block his emails, threaten to tell his fiance, whatever. There are actions she has to take, but chastising herself or feeling pathetic will not serve her well. there is a difference between knowing you made a mistake and taking action to fix it, and just feeling sorry for yourself and your actions. In both cases you know you did wrong, but its easier to take action when you aren't putting yourself down for slipping up. people make mistakes, to falter is to be human. That's all I meant. :-) cheers

[jj33]

Blue you are not pathetic.

 

If you havent already emailed him back, dont. Wait until next time he contacts you and THEN use Owls line.

 

And no I dont think NC is manipulation. he is making choices - wanting to be with his fiancee and you. And You are making choices - you dont want to speak to him outside of work.

 

If neither of you change your stance, then the relationship will be limited to work. If he changes his stance maybe just maybe if you are interested you will give him a chance when he is single.

 

Its not manipulation. Its the only way to get your life back. Whether he is a part of it in the future is anybodys guess. But you will be living your life on your terms.

 

 

Absent NC why should he change things? Hes got everything he wants. You and the fiance. hes already proven he cant be trusted to be appropriate in a work context and simply keep contact to work related issues. He doesnt deserve any more slack.

[You'reasian]

i disagree. A person has a right to end a relationship of any kind, and to request someone not to speak to them. Some people might use it as a tactic if they are really hoping that the "reverse psychology" way of thinking might work to their benefit (eg- maybe he'll realize what he has once he no longer has it). But i think in this case Blueberry is really trying to move on and the only way to do that is to cut off contact with MM. What else would you have her do? Continue the affair ? Because that is the healthier option? I wish I had the cajones to start NC with my MM right now, I just haven't the strength to do it yet. It is by far the hradest decision to make, not to be reduced to some mere tactic in the game of love. Some may use it as such, but some really need to do it for their own sanity to end a bad relationship where the other person just won't give it up.

 

Simple question:

 

Why do people voluntarily get involved with married folks???

 

If someone lies about being married that's one thing, but accepting someone who is married as dating material is not.

[jj33]

i disagree. A person has a right to end a relationship of any kind, and to request someone not to speak to them. Some people might use it as a tactic if they are really hoping that the "reverse psychology" way of thinking might work to their benefit (eg- maybe he'll realize what he has once he no longer has it). But i think in this case Blueberry is really trying to move on and the only way to do that is to cut off contact with MM. What else would you have her do? Continue the affair ? Because that is the healthier option? I wish I had the cajones to start NC with my MM right now, I just haven't the strength to do it yet. It is by far the hradest decision to make, not to be reduced to some mere tactic in the game of love. Some may use it as such, but some really need to do it for their own sanity to end a bad relationship where the other person just won't give it up.

 

Actually I think the point of NC is the reverse - in the case of the OW asking for NC, its not that the MM wont give it up.... why should he? He has the best of all worlds a OW on the side to meet unmet needs and his W and family.

 

The OW is calling NC because SHE wants to give it up. Its a proactive measure. And not terribly surprising when the MM breaks it - he is so used to the OW accomodating to his needs and putting her own needs and wants second, that he doesnt always believe that NC means NC.

 

That being said what Blueberry is experiencing is very normal as there has been no D day. He is just checking to see if she means NC or if he can wear her down or if this is a game. Its a very normal response given the nature of the A. Many MM assume OW will get upset say its over but if they are sweet and say all the right words, they can worm their way back in again with little or no change in the terms of the relationship.

 

Right now he thinks there is some hope, because she didnt smack him upside the head with her response, or ignore him.

 

Next time he contacts her she will either ignore him or respond by saying I asked you not to contact me unless necessary for work.

 

Eventually he will get the message.

 

Kismet I dont understand why you are so free with the insults about other peoples MMs but you seem to make all the excuses under the sun for yours? Dont any of these situations resonate with you?