Any OW's out there in my position, and it actually worked out to your benefit?

[KismetGirl]

Just out of curiousity....

 

Brief: I'm 25 , he's 33 (MM), both fairly young, he's been married 7 years and has three small kids. Pretty sure that kids, family, and comfort in current lifestyle are the main factors he stays married, but that's an argument for another day....

 

My questions is, Im wondering if there are anys ituations similiar to mine, in which the MM actually did leave his W to be with the OW at some point, and it worked out? Or , I guess, if it didn't work out when he did that, I'd like to hear about that too.

 

And, by my situation, I mean, a youngish-OW, a youngish-MM with small children (younger than 18, at least), and a W who MM does love in his own way, but he's not in love with. It's easier when I hear"oh, MM hated his wife, she was a bitch/horrid/etc", but what if generally his life isn't bad, his W is a nice enough woman, but he's just not happy WITH her?

 

Maybe Im not making sense but hopefully someone get's my drift. Just curious how things have turned out for some people that were somewhat in my position.

 

Im pretty sure MM will never leave his W, but I have to admit, sometimes I wonder what if it would be like if he did.

[whichwayisup]

If you're pretty sure he's not going to leave his wife, why would you want to continue your affair? You're 25 years old and young enough to start your OWN family with a single guy. If you stay with this guy, in hopes he'll leave his wife one day and want more children, you might lose out on ALOT.

 

Even if he DID leave, are you prepared to take on 3 kids that aren't yours, and still have to deal with his wife? She will ALWAYS be in your lives..

[sb129]

My exMM left his W and child for me. It was a total disaster, and we split up after a year of paranoia, jealousy and bitter arguments.

 

They lose their sparkle when the thrill of the chase wears off, and then you realise you are with someone who lied and cheated to someone else (their Wife) for you, so whats to say they won't do it TO you when they get bored of you?

 

I learned the lesson the hard way, and while it helped me appreciate how truly wonderful my husband to be is (faithful, honest, kind, no exW or kids lurking about), you are too young for that kind of carry on-

25 is an awesome age! Don't burden yourself with someone elses drama and baggage- find a nice single guy and start your own family.

[sb129]

PS- KG- sounds like he has fed you every cliched line in the book re: How "he loves her but he isn't IN LOVE with her, how he isn't happy, she doesn't get him" etc etc etc.

 

Three small children is no picnic you know. He wants to have the security of a W and family without having to do any of the work most likely, and a nice, no strings attached shag on the side (you), because his poor W is probably exhausted after looking after 3 kids all day and isn't "attending his sexual needs" as much as he would like.

 

Thats where you come in. He feeds you lines like the ones above, and bingo you he gets in your pants.

 

Don't fall for it, its got heartache written all over it.

[KismetGirl]

PS- KG- sounds like he has fed you every cliched line in the book re: How "he loves her but he isn't IN LOVE with her, how he isn't happy, she doesn't get him" etc etc etc.

 

Three small children is no picnic you know. He wants to have the security of a W and family without having to do any of the work most likely, and a nice, no strings attached shag on the side (you), because his poor W is probably exhausted after looking after 3 kids all day and isn't "attending his sexual needs" as much as he would like.

 

Thats where you come in. He feeds you lines like the ones above, and bingo you he gets in your pants.

 

Don't fall for it, its got heartache written all over it.

 

 

FYI, he's never fed me any lines. He doesn't lie to me, promise me futures together, or any of the things that alot of MM's seem to do. I observe these things on my own, from things his friends say, from observations of him and his W and things he said about his M long before me and him ever hooked up or even came close to it. We were just acquaintances/friends for about a year before we kissed that first time, and for some reason I remember distinctly one thing he said to me after he'd had a few beers after work one night and seemed like he just needed to talk, and it was one of those things where I don't think he really remembers saying it. He said "{insert W's name here} is a great woman, she really is, I should feel lucky right? She's a great woman and a fantastic mother but....I don't know....there's just no spark between us, like something is missing." I remember that for some reason, bcause it seemed like an odd thing for a boss to be telling his employee but I brushed it off as a frustrated person letting off steam after a few drinks. If he was trying to get in my pants, it would be another three years before he'd succeed or even really make a move and if that's all he was after there are easier ways to do it than risking yoru job by putting a move on your 21 year old employee. That was long before anything would ever happen between us. And, for the first three years of us being more open about our flirting, he didn't get in my pants. We kissed, we hugged, we cuddled, but I never let him get in my pants until 9 months ago. We had a full year of NC before that, as well. As far as he knows, I tell him I don't expect anything from him, no future, no relationship , no nothing, so he has no reason to lie to me. As far as he knows, I freely date other people and live my own life. He's got no clue whatsoever how I really feel about him, and how deeply my feelings run. So really, he has no reason to lie to me about anything, which I suspect is a reason he enjoys my company so much anyway- it's stress free (aside from the whole guilty feeling he gets from it). But, I don't pressure or ask for anything outside of what it is at the moment, which is just two people sporadically enjoying each other's company.

 

 

So trust me when I say, nothing he says to me is a plan to get me to sleep with him. And besides, I wasn't asking about my own A here, I was just curious about how other's people situation's had turned out. I've seen A's turn out for the best, and those that turned out for the worst. People get divorced all the time when they have kids, and people in those situations usually end up just fine, kids included, and even find new relationships, so it isn't totally unlikely. I do realize it would be difficult , but it isn't impossible. Not that it matters for me, I suppose, since I'll never ask him to leave his family for me. I suppose many on here will judge my morality for sleeping with him at all, but c'est la vie. I love him. It's hard to give up someone you love, even when you're pretty sure you can never have him.

 

And,to answer someone else's question- yes, if it meant having a HAPPY life with him, I would deal with the fact that his W would be in his life forever and would happily embrace his children. That isnnt my concern. There are alot of other concerns, but this isn't the thread to adres them....that's for another thread. So, anyone else care to share their own stories about how a relationship with a MM turned out, if he left his W for you, and did it turn out well, etc? Cheers

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Just out of curiousity....

 

Brief: I'm 25 , he's 33 (MM), both fairly young, he's been married 7 years and has three small kids. Pretty sure that kids, family, and comfort in current lifestyle are the main factors he stays married, but that's an argument for another day....

 

My questions is, Im wondering if there are anys ituations similiar to mine, in which the MM actually did leave his W to be with the OW at some point, and it worked out? Or , I guess, if it didn't work out when he did that, I'd like to hear about that too.

 

And, by my situation, I mean, a youngish-OW, a youngish-MM with small children (younger than 18, at least), and a W who MM does love in his own way, but he's not in love with. It's easier when I hear"oh, MM hated his wife, she was a bitch/horrid/etc", but what if generally his life isn't bad, his W is a nice enough woman, but he's just not happy WITH her?

 

Maybe Im not making sense but hopefully someone get's my drift. Just curious how things have turned out for some people that were somewhat in my position.

 

Im pretty sure MM will never leave his W, but I have to admit, sometimes I wonder what if it would be like if he did.

 

 

Hi, in no way do I have the answer to the question asked, NOR did I land here to come down on you in any way. I just want to present a mental scenario that still likely brings a "MM" like yours to start up an affair with someone else.

 

It is soooooooooooooo easy for two people to talk themselves toward a situation where they are verbally painted into a corner from which sincere and effective communication isn't within reach for them. They are each to blame, but in so many cases the man has more means of adult communication outside in the adult world while a mom of young children spends more time at home and without adult interaction.

 

This both affords him more opportunities to find new partners for an affair and it leaves the mom at home more susceptible to things like affairs begun online, where they can hit ones emotions much more irrationally.

 

So say your guy and his wife became so harnessed by child rearing and the kids always being around that they just couldn't have the deep and uninterrupted time together that used to be so meaningful and therapeutic both emotionally and physically. That could have been made more complex by her not wanting to participate as much in sexual intimacy, be it because she was more tired or because of a post-partum lack of sex drive.

 

If couples like them would go to counseling in the early stages they would usually stay married for the long haul. Over time, if not tended to, the lack of communication leads to things like outside affairs, nobody being satisfied, and resent all around.

 

Now it could be true that YOUR GUY will be the one who is discovered by the wife before having a big blow-up which ends in separation and then, presto, he is on the open market for you. Even that scenario isn't likely to result in him beginning an exclusive relationship with you, as the emotional stress and toll on him would just as likely send him away from all of you.

 

Unless that BIG BLOW-UP occurs for one reason or another, it is extremely unlikely that he will ever jump ship and be available to you.

 

The whole idea of setting your sights on someone who isn't completely available TO you just isn't fair to yourself. I wouldn't be surprised to learn from you that the past hasn't been so great to you when you've reeeeeeeeeeeeally been emotionally exposed to a guy who really was available.

 

Some of the urge to have an affair is brought on by the desire to protect yourself from having to be truly exposed inside. While it is fun to share your sexual goodies with a man who is quite happy to have that variety, you just can't get to the depth of shared emotional investing that is what really makes couples work long-term.

 

In brief, I don't think you are taking enough personal risks in life... no matter what others will say about the sanctity of somebody else's marriage.

 

If you want the fairytale, you will need to risk much more than you're venturing right now.

 

On a purely logical assessment, it should probably be you who stops the affair and resolves to go down social paths on which you can meet people who really ARE fully available to you.

 

"A man who marries his mistress is only creating an opening for the position"

[whichwayisup]

emotional investing that is what really makes couples work long-term.

 

And this is probably why many MM and MW throw their OW/OM under the bus when caught. They really haven't invested emotionally deep enough, and they're able to just up and cut the cord on an emotional level.

[KismetGirl]

It is soooooooooooooo easy for two people to talk themselves toward a situation where they are verbally painted into a corner from which sincere and effective communication isn't within reach for them. They are each to blame, but in so many cases the man has more means of adult communication outside in the adult world while a mom of young children spends more time at home and without adult interaction.

 

This both affords him more opportunities to find new partners for an affair and it leaves the mom at home more susceptible to things like affairs begun online, where they can hit ones emotions much more irrationally.

 

So say your guy and his wife became so harnessed by child rearing and the kids always being around that they just couldn't have the deep and uninterrupted time together that used to be so meaningful and therapeutic both emotionally and physically. That could have been made more complex by her not wanting to participate as much in sexual intimacy, be it because she was more tired or because of a post-partum lack of sex drive.

 

If couples like them would go to counseling in the early stages they would usually stay married for the long haul. Over time, if not tended to, the lack of communication leads to things like outside affairs, nobody being satisfied, and resent all around.

 

let me just clarify by saying, when he first insinuated he was not happy in his marriage, and when me and him began our A, him and his W only had ONE child who was already 2 or 3 years old, so post-partum depression or lack of sex was not the issue. She just doesn't want sex, they have no sexual spark or connection. AND his W was still working at the time. She did not quit her job to be a SAHM until 2 years later when they had their second child. So, the two of them had the same time at home with the child, the same time at work during the day, the same level of stress in their jobs, the same ability to "interact with other adults" as others put it, and they were still having problems and lack of intimacy and no emotional connection.

 

When his W nearly found out about me and him, I encouraged him to talk things out with her and see what was wrong with the M. Gave them a full year of NC, didn't speak to him, nothing. Obviously, the two of them didn't put in enough effort to repair anything if four years later he's come back to me again.

 

Not to make myself sound like this wonderful thing, but I know for a fact that he has never cheated on her with anyone before me, and has not cheated on her with anyone else but me since he's met me.

 

It's easy to compartmentalize and point fingers and say things when you don't know a situation, but maybe, just maybe, there are situations where two people got married, and they really don't have anything against each other, and love each other like two family members would love each other, but simply weren't meant to be a romantic couple. Having children together, while a responsibility, does not make two people right for each other. Neither does getting married. Just because you took vows to work on things through thick and thin, doesn't mean that after you've realized that you're both not right for each other you should stay that way. They obviously made some kind of effort while I didn't speak to him and it didn't work. he didn't seek out some other woman.....he came back to me. He may not ever be mentally prepared to leave his M for many reasons that I do understand, but that doesn't mean he's happy there. Once his kids start to grow up it's going to hit him alot harder. now is the good time, when they are little. The best times are when they are happy and innocent and little. Once they become adults it'll just be him and his W in that house, distant and uninterested in each other.

 

I think that's a horrid way to end up.

[Billie63]

let me just clarify by saying, when he first insinuated he was not happy in his marriage, and when me and him began our A, him and his W only had ONE child who was already 2 or 3 years old,

.

 

Kismet, has he explained clearly to you why he and his wife went on to have two more children in quick succession despite the fact he was not happy in his marriage?

 

Were these children planned or accidents? Don't you think it a strange thing to do if he was not happy?

 

There is no doubt there is a strong bond between you and this man. But please get a grip.

 

In a marriage or long term relationship there will be troubled periods - marriage does not make you happy ever after, couples fall out of love and fall back in love again over the course of a long term relationship.

 

This marriage probably isn't happy because three young kids is damn hard work and that wife of his has probably had the shock of her life - going from working girl to SAH mum. Ask any parent of young children what strain they put on a marriage and it surprises me not at all that he uses you for an hour's relief each week.

 

I would stake my life that if his W found out about you and kicked him to the curb, he would fall back in love with her, throw you under the bus and try to work on his marriage.

[Adunaphel]

The situation I am in is only slightly similar to yours, as MM is clearly scared of leaving, there are money issues involved (he can't afford to move out on his own), he would like to mantain a decent relationship with his W and be there for his children if he does leave, but ha *does* want to leave (or at least he tells me so and I do believe him).

 

I have heard of similar situations, though. And MM (or MW) never left... unless one of the following happened:

1) the affair was discovered and the situation took an unexpected turn. The WS either did not get together with OM/OW, or considered at first OW/OM as a kind of second prize - after which the relationship evolved, or did not.

2) the OM/OW was a *very* good game player, so it resulted in one of those horror stories about the excellent H and great dad/mom being sucked in by a manipulating OW/OM and turned into a doormat.

 

If you would like him to leave, I suggest to ask him directly if he means to or if he has no intention of leaving his M. Also, ask him why. It will tell you a lot about him, and also a lot of what you can expect from him.

 

Does his W know he is not happy? Did he provide her with enough information that would enable her to know he is in an A if she wanted to know? How much is he hiding from her?

 

Billie63 also made a good point

Kismet, has he explained clearly to you why he and his wife went on to have two more children in quick succession despite the fact he was not happy in his marriage?

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, has he explained clearly to you why he and his wife went on to have two more children in quick succession despite the fact he was not happy in his marriage?

 

Were these children planned or accidents? Don't you think it a strange thing to do if he was not happy?

 

There is no doubt there is a strong bond between you and this man. But please get a grip.

 

In a marriage or long term relationship there will be troubled periods - marriage does not make you happy ever after, couples fall out of love and fall back in love again over the course of a long term relationship.

 

This marriage probably isn't happy because three young kids is damn hard work and that wife of his has probably had the shock of her life - going from working girl to SAH mum. Ask any parent of young children what strain they put on a marriage and it surprises me not at all that he uses you for an hour's relief each week.

 

I would stake my life that if his W found out about you and kicked him to the curb, he would fall back in love with her, throw you under the bus and try to work on his marriage.

 

Both second and third child were unplanned. Wife is catholic, won't use birth control. I predicted she'd get pregnant before he told me she was, was right both times. He mentioned in passing that they'd gone to a wedding and both got really drunk. I made a joke that she probably finally agreed to f**k him (note: this was well before me and him began sleeping together) and he made some comment to the effect of he doesn't get it much but he takes it the little she offers it. I don't really expect him to refuse it, i mean, he's a man after all, and we werent even hooking up yet, at this point we were friends that occasionally snuck in a kiss here and there. Anyway, so I said to him "i bet you she tells you in a month she's preggers". Lo and behold, in 6 weeks she tells him she's about 6-7 weeks pregnant.

 

Third child also unplanned. Right before his birthday, it had been about 9 months that I hadn't spoken to him at all, part of the NC. Sent him a small email to say happy birthday, made a joke that he should take advantage and ask for some nooky action for his B-Day. Look at that, nine months after his birthday, she gives birth to their third child. Perhaps it's all coincidence. Who knows. Im sure they slept together a few times in between, but I don't believe it was more than once every couple of months, and if anyone here thinks that a young couple with only one kid who are in a healthy relationship should be having sex once every two months, then I guess we can agree to disagree. in any event, when we started to speak again in person the first time I saw him after a year he appeared visibly stressed out, and when I asked why, he said she was pregnant with their third child and he hadn't wanted it and they couldn't afford it. He loves the kid, of course, but it was definitely NOT planned. Only the first kid was planned, and that was well before he met me.

 

Im not saying im the love of his life, or things would be perfect with us. Im well aware that if his W found out about us there's the likelihood he'd tell me we can't see each other anymore, but I honestly don't believe it's because he's in love with her. if he was, he wouldn't cheat on her after she already almost found out twice. If anything he fears losing his children and his comfortable family life, which is significantly different than fear of losing a woman he's in love with. Either way, don't worry, Im not deluding myself, and he's not making any false promises to me.

 

We;re just two idiots who really like each other and torture each other with continued A that continues to emotionally entrench us further as we go, and one day both of us will be really hurt, whether its because his W finds out, or I just find someone else and end things with MM.

 

That's life, I guess.

[Billie63]

and if anyone here thinks that a young couple with only one kid who are in a healthy relationship should be having sex once every two months, then I guess we can agree to disagree.

.

 

Whereas you and he meet up for one hour's sex a week all on his terms and that's real healthy yes? You're not exactly at it like rabbits are you?

 

Sorry to be harsh but you need to face up to the reality of this thing. At least see it for what it is.

 

And you may be right - she may not be the woman for him when all is said and done - but that doesn't mean you are. You are focusing on what is negative in their relationship and missing the point that you have got him (for one hour a week) by default. You should be focusing on the relationship you have with him because put it under a microscope and I don't think it stands up to close scrutiny. Quite frankly your position is degrading.

 

And if she's a confirmed practising catholic, I don't see a divorce/separation heading his way any time soon.

 

As for the lack of sex between them- every married man I know with young kids say the same thing - they don't get enough attention or intimacy. That's life I'm afraid. Relationships ebb and flow - in a few years time his wife may get her groove back but it could be him who's saying "not tonight, I've got a headache."

[KismetGirl]

Whereas you and he meet up for one hour's sex a week all on his terms and that's real healthy yes? You're not exactly at it like rabbits are you?

 

Well, we at a minimum meet once a week, but try to fit it in as much as humanely possible given both our atrocious schedules. Would I LIKE to see him more? Of course. Do I realistically have time? No, and neither does he, because yes, our A is based on him lying to his W and as such we don't have the freedom to pursue time together that normal couples do. She has him every night and doesn't want him like that. If he was able to come over every day we would, there's no lack of spark between us, that much I know....if we aren't sleeping together every other day at least, it's not for lack of wanting to but lack of schedules synching up. Alot of the time he can come over and Im not available, or vice versa. Our relationship, for lack of better words, is not healthy, but it definitely has nothing to do with lack of desire for one another.

 

She has him, every day, every night, all the time. He broke things off with me for a whole year to try to make things work with her after their second kid was being born, and Im not saying its her fault, but obviously something is amiss between them that this is still going on. You should have seen him when she was pregnant with the second kid and she found out something was going on with me and him- he had a freaking heart attack thinking she was going to divorce him and take his children away from him and break up the family unit. And still, he ends up coming back . I didnt put a gun to his head and make him come back to me. Should I have said "no"? Maybe so, but my saying yes or no to him has nothing to do with the effort they both put into their marriage when I didnt even say one word to him for a year.

 

 

 

And you may be right - she may not be the woman for him when all is said and done - but that doesn't mean you are. You are focusing on what is negative in their relationship and missing the point that you have got him (for one hour a week) by default. You should be focusing on the relationship you have with him because put it under a microscope and I don't think it stands up to close scrutiny. Quite frankly your position is degrading.

 

And if she's a confirmed practising catholic, I don't see a divorce/separation heading his way any time soon.

 

As for the lack of sex between them- every married man I know with young kids say the same thing - they don't get enough attention or intimacy. That's life I'm afraid. Relationships ebb and flow - in a few years time his wife may get her groove back but it could be him who's saying "not tonight, I've got a headache."

 

No, I don't see a D or S coming anytime soon either. In a weird way, he freaks out at the thought of her finding out, but to be honest, I don't think she'd leave him even if she did find out. She'd be pissed off at him, make him sleep on the couch, whatever whatever, but she'd stay married to him because they've got three kids together.

 

Honestly, I don't consider what he and I have to be a "relationship", i really don't. It's an affair, that's it. A very emotional one, but I wouldn't call it a relationship unless he was free to date me like any normal single man. Just because I have trouble letting go, doesn't mean I don't see the thing for what it is right now.

 

Do I wish I'd met him when he was single? Sure. Do I think we would be happy together? I can't predict anything, but I think we'd have had a better chance than him and her. But no one can predict anything, and that's how it goes.

 

He's coming over tomorrow morning to see me before work, it's been a couple days, but obviously I never see him on the weekends so that's to be expected. Usually, before I see him, I have fantasies of telling him i can't see him anymore, and how I can't do this anymore, and how it's killing me inside, and then he walks through my door, kisses me, and my brain turns to mush and I forget everything I was going to say. I suppose it takes a long time for some people to get over things, and maybe Im just not ready to end it yet. I guess only time will tell.

 

But this has veered off course the thread topic! I wanted to hear if anyone ELSE has ended up with thier MM and whether or not it worked out and why? :-)

[Owl]

There are success stories where affair partners end up together. If you keep searching long enough, you'll find them.

 

But...they're damn few. The odds of YOUR affair being one of those successful ones...very, very low.

 

Hence, my signature. Its something to consider.

 

Are you the kind of person who will place huge, huge bets on low odds at Vegas?

 

Or do you consider what you're doing, the possible outcomes, and decide whether or not what you're doing makes sense?

 

EVERYONE wants to think they'll beat the odds...but clearly most of the time, the odds beat you.

[Billie63]

Sorry to veer off the subject Kismet, of course there are cases as you describe - some couples should never have got married in the first place and breaking up is inevitable. I mean, look at the divorce statistics - 1 in 3 marriages breaking down.

 

But I will veer off again to say that your feelings for this guy are making you illogical, despite the fact you are a very intelligent woman.

 

From what you've said he hasn't given any indication that he wants out of this marriage, all he's said is he wasn't happy.

[whichwayisup]

Seems he's just enjoying the fact he has another woman on the side who will meet his sexual needs and also give him an ego boost. To be desired and wanted by someone else who he isn't married to IS making HIM feel wonderful..ALL on the expense of his wife and kids. Nice..

[morelaugh]

Of course, his coming back for more, honey. He has his life sorted, and now is playing a little risky game. You’ve already seen what’s happened when he thought there was a REAL risk.

 

I’ve seen MM leaving their wives, but in a situation like that - never.

 

What I’ve sheen though, is young women like you wasting years and years on a relationship like that. You will not be young forever.

 

But let’s take a hypothetical situation that he does leave his wife with 3 small kids. Why would you want to be with a man like that? Not only his responsibilities will always lie elsewhere, but why would you want to risk something like that to happen to you?

 

Three kids is not a mistake by anyone's standards, and even if it was it still says heaps about his character (and intelligence).

 

My bet is, unless you finish with him fairly soon, it will all end in tears. Yours.

[sb129]

Well, to address the OP again, as I think my first post was lost in the defense of the MM in question-

 

1. Yes, my exMM DID leave his W for me.

 

2. No, it did not work out.

 

When you are an OW, you live on promises and borrowed time. Its all very exciting, and its very very easy to blame any problems on the fact that he is married.

What would otherwise be obvious incompatibility issues are brushed aside as things that will get better if/when he leaves his wife.

 

For example- if you were dating a single guy you were really into, one hour a week would be laughable, and you could rightly expect to see more of him.

But when a guy is married, you excuse that, and has that to use as an excuse every time he can't/won't see or call you.

Convenient huh?

 

When you actually end up with the prize of getting your MM ALL to yourself, it is not all plain sailing.

You may think that having a W and kids as part of your life is "OK", but thats because they are not part of your life now, as she doesn't know about you.

 

Think about how it feels to have your guy drop everything (including plans made with you) to attend to his kids needs. A romantic would say oh thats fine, but the reality of it is its not that much fun, esp when you know that when your guy drops everything to go to his kids, he is seeing his exW at the same time.

 

Trusting a man in this situation is nearly impossible. After all, he cheated with you, right? Whats to say he won't do it again, esp if you end up having his kids and the whole cycle starts again. And even if he doesn't ACTUALLY cheat, I doubt you will be able to trust him 100%, ever. Those kind of doubts destroy a R longterm, believe me.

 

Kismet- the way you are defending your R with this man is EXACTLY the way I justified my R with me exMM to my friends and family, and to myself.

 

It was two years of intense jealousy, excitement, anguish, clockwatching, sitting by the phone and snatched moments. Those things didn't disappear when we got together- they got worse. When his W knew about us she made things very difficult too, and in the end it was exhausting- too exhausting to continue as I deserved better.

 

I got better, and it is SO nice to wake up every morning next to a lovely guy who I know has no baggage lurking around and my sense of self worth skyrocketed after i ditched MM.

 

Hope it works out for you- Keep this thread and read it when you are 30, I bet alot more of it makes sense.

[GreenEyedLady]

It has worked out for me and my honey.

 

I am over a decade younger than him and divorced with 2 children from a previous M.

 

I met him not knowing he was married. He has changed considerably over the 4 years I have known him and he is a much nicer, better person. I know there are those who would argue that, but I KNOW him. I have seen the changes and I would never have risked everything I have risked to be with him unless I felt the changes were genuine and lasting.

 

A MM is inherently selfish. To hurt women who love him is the worst thing a man can do. You do not want him until he decides for HIMSELF that he cannot hurt anyone else anymore. Especially someone he claims to love above all others.

 

Other people's outcomes are of no matter to you. You know your partner. What kind of man is he?

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

Other people's outcomes are of no matter to you. You know your partner. What kind of man is he?

 

GEL

 

To the OP,

 

I agree with the part I quoted. What kind of man IS he? Take off the rose colored glasses and reassess. Do you still like what you see? Take him down off the pedestal? Do you still have a glowing review of him?

 

Do you really know this man?

 

I can tell you that a man cheating on his W who is at home with three small children isn't a saint. And when you wrote that he's been married for seven years, that was all I needed to read. Did you start this A when he was married for only four years? And now its three years later after some periods of NC?

 

Seems to me like he has the classic seven year itch, just that he started at the four year mark. He's a bad risk. He's already shown that when the going gets tough, he gets going.

[KismetGirl]

To the OP,

 

I agree with the part I quoted. What kind of man IS he? Take off the rose colored glasses and reassess. Do you still like what you see? Take him down off the pedestal? Do you still have a glowing review of him?

 

Do you really know this man?

 

I can tell you that a man cheating on his W who is at home with three small children isn't a saint. And when you wrote that he's been married for seven years, that was all I needed to read. Did you start this A when he was married for only four years? And now its three years later after some periods of NC?

 

Seems to me like he has the classic seven year itch, just that he started at the four year mark. He's a bad risk. He's already shown that when the going gets tough, he gets going.

 

Im late for class, so can't answer everything here right off, but, he didn't get a 7 year itch, or a 4 year itch, this started before they even hit the 2 year mark. I think he's known for a long time that this wasn't necessarily the right woman, but h stayed in it anyway and kept having more kids. I've known him longer than the period we've had the A, and yes, in there is also a full year of NC (between the time his second child was born, and about 9 months ago).

I know he isn't perfect, believe me. He can be quite emotionally retarded sometimes, he doesn't like to address things when they bother him, so if you don't bring it up first he'll just let it fester and hope it goes away on its own. Just like he hoped this feeling of being dissatisfied with marrying the wrong person would go away, because she fit the bill in every other way and he didnt want to ruin it I guess. He thought there must be something wrong with the way he was feeling, so he just ignored it. . She was nice, and kind, and decent looking, and a great mother, and everyone loved her, and his family loved her, and his friends liked her, and she wasn't a bad person, and he did love her in his own way, she felt like what home is supposed to feel like, a place of comfort. But, I guess, for some people just feeling comfortable isn't enough, and he never admitted that to himself and just stuck it out because he didn't think any better was possible, he convinced himself that this is just what marriage feels like from day one, and now three kids later, he ain't going no where.

I know he loves her, but he is NOT in love with this woman. He has NEVER been in love with her, but he's not good at addressing his emotions at all. He never has been. You don't get an itch at 2 years of marriage unless there is some serious discontent and emotional distance between the couple. They only had one child when I met them and he was already unhappy. They were both working, both had equal time in the evening with the kid , and on top of it her parents lived upstairs from them and helped them every day with the baby so its not like they even had the stress of doing everything all day on their own with the kid.

Lots of couples have one bloody child, or even three or four or five, and they are not this unhappy. Stressed, yes, but they dont all end up like this right? There was something missing there for a long time, and after somewhat of a D-Day and him freaking out and me not speaking to him for a year so he could work on his marriage, at the end of the day he still comes back to me, risking everything if he gets caught again.

 

There is no black and white epxlanations for anythin here, but this isn't just a matter of some guy who got stressed because they had three kids and sh*t got rough. That may be part of the case now, but that wasn't the case when I first met him and isn not the root of the problems they have. Don't worry though, just like he's terrible at approaching problems to resolve them, he'll stick them out if it means keeping his kids' family together, so I don't pose any serious threat. I've said that all along. she wins int he end. She has his kids. I don't. Even if she finds out again I doubt she'll divorce him. Maybe if she finds concrete evidence of his cheating, they'll actually fix their marriage, who knows. That's what usually happens- either the marriage ends completely, or it makes the couple work harder to fix everything. Or they just argue for a year like during the NC I had, and then she forgives him and goes on with the happy life while secretely it's all effed up just like it is now. Don't tell me she has no idea somethng is amiss with him.....they BOTH have to work on it, and if they don't what kind of marraige is that? Ok now im really going to be alte for school, later.......

[serliana7]

Hi Kismet, going back to your initial question, I think you might enjoy a book I read recently, it's called 'Getting Rid of Matthew' It is about a girl having an affair with a married man (with kids) and, well I won't ruin it for you, just buy it! its a british book but you should get it off Amazon - it helped me and really made me think, if I could actually have him, am I sure I would want to keep him? x

[KismetGirl]

Hi Kismet, going back to your initial question, I think you might enjoy a book I read recently, it's called 'Getting Rid of Matthew' It is about a girl having an affair with a married man (with kids) and, well I won't ruin it for you, just buy it! its a british book but you should get it off Amazon - it helped me and really made me think, if I could actually have him, am I sure I would want to keep him? x

 

Thanks Serliana....

 

Ill check it out. Im pretty sure I'll never have the option of "having" him anyway, though, so it's probably all a moot point. I do know what kind of guy he is, and he isn't the kind who breaks up his family and leaves his three small children, his new house, his way of life, to chance it all on me. Even if I was the love of his life he wouldn't do it. Real life isn't usually some romantic movie where the person up heaves everything just because they might have found a chance at true love. It is for some people, maybe, but not for most. I have much less to risk in a relationship with him than he does. im single, Im allowed to do what I like. Sure, I risk it not working out, having to deal with his baggage, etc, but its not the same as if I were leaving my own children or my own spouse, which he'd be doing. He's not the type to just take everything apart if it's working on some level. Is he missing something? of course he is, or he wouldn't be coming to see me for four years. But that doesn't mean he'll change his whole life because of it. So maybe all my frustrations and venting and arguing about semantics is all stupid and moot anyway, because even if it's all true, he still won't break his family up for an unknown, and that unknown is a future with me. At least where he is now, he already knows what he's getting , whether he's completely happy with it or not, and he gets to see his kids every day, which is the most important thing above all else. I guess at the end of the day the only really unhappy one is me, but really I've known that all along.

 

I just kind of feel like giving up, in a weird way. It's mentally draining trying to think about it. I'll just go about my daily routine, which currently sucks alot and consists of mostly my job that I hate and school that stresses me out and not much else, and he'll probably call me today to come over tomorrow, and I'll probably just say ok because I'm too tired to fathom the energy it takes to say no, because saying no at this point is just as hard as finding the mental energy to end things with him entirely. Its easier to just say ok, and enjoy an hour or two with him. I wont call him, if that makes a difference, but last time I decided I'd just stop calling him, he obviously called me within a couple days and I relented and said ok.

 

I'll just float in this place of discontent and obscurity, hoping my life makes more sense one day. I do what I have to do, I go to work, I'm a good counselor, I'm good to my patients, i do well in school, I help my family, I'm responsible, i do every bloody thing for everyone else and in the end I haven't got energy for myself anymore. It's been a long time since I can really remember being happy. I've almost forgotten what it's like, to be honest.

 

So I guess maybe it might work out for some other people, but I doubt it will for me. It seems that even if the guy ever does leave his wife, it's generally a case when his kids are older, or he just plain out hates his wife. I have as yet to hear of a case where the guy got along well with his wife and have very, very young children just up and leaving. I doubt any decent man would do that , to be honest, and I know my MM is a good man, despite opinions to the contrary due to his cheating, but he won't leave her or his family. he won't. Maybe one day I'll be happy, I guess. Crazier things have happened.

[serliana7]

Kismet - don't take this the wrong way but are you wallowing a bit here? its almost like you're saying ' I know I am in a no win situation, but i'll accept it because It takes too much energy to end it'

 

If you were OK with how things are you wouldnt be here, I came to Loveshack for one reason (though I didnt know it at the time) and that was the support from like minded people so that I could END the horrid rut i'd got into with my MM, do you want to do the same? I think you are at a complete cross road, you either accept it for what it is (it doesnt sound like your MM wants to run away with you) OR end it and give real life a chance to take its course - grasp the nettle

 

One thing I have noticed from your posts is that you have a very full life workwise, school, family etc but do you have good girlfriends? I neglected mine completely thoughout my MM period, as I didnt want to hear about their cosy lunches with in-laws or couples dinner parties, similarly I didnt want them shaking their head at me for being an OW - However, since I ended things with MM I have heavily invested in Girl time and it has by far been the best tonic, I know you're busy - but the hour or so you have for your MM why not get drunk with your funniest girl mate or invite her round for dinner, it probably doesnt appeal right now but eventually, hopefully it will.

 

As for meeting men, I agree there are a lot of circus freaks out there, but being choosy is very liberating - again this is where girlfriends come in, men find nothing sexier than women who are out to enjoy themselves in each others company rather than out on the hunt for men, scouting the room for talent.

 

Good god, I cant beleive i'm dishing out advice, read my OP - I've f***ed up big time, but like I said above, if you start making tiny steps towards winnerdom, the rest will fall into place

[KismetGirl]

Kismet - don't take this the wrong way but are you wallowing a bit here? its almost like you're saying ' I know I am in a no win situation, but i'll accept it because It takes too much energy to end it'

 

If you were OK with how things are you wouldnt be here, I came to Loveshack for one reason (though I didnt know it at the time) and that was the support from like minded people so that I could END the horrid rut i'd got into with my MM, do you want to do the same? I think you are at a complete cross road, you either accept it for what it is (it doesnt sound like your MM wants to run away with you) OR end it and give real life a chance to take its course - grasp the nettle

 

One thing I have noticed from your posts is that you have a very full life workwise, school, family etc but do you have good girlfriends? I neglected mine completely thoughout my MM period, as I didnt want to hear about their cosy lunches with in-laws or couples dinner parties, similarly I didnt want them shaking their head at me for being an OW - However, since I ended things with MM I have heavily invested in Girl time and it has by far been the best tonic, I know you're busy - but the hour or so you have for your MM why not get drunk with your funniest girl mate or invite her round for dinner, it probably doesnt appeal right now but eventually, hopefully it will.

 

As for meeting men, I agree there are a lot of circus freaks out there, but being choosy is very liberating - again this is where girlfriends come in, men find nothing sexier than women who are out to enjoy themselves in each others company rather than out on the hunt for men, scouting the room for talent.

 

Good god, I cant beleive i'm dishing out advice, read my OP - I've f***ed up big time, but like I said above, if you start making tiny steps towards winnerdom, the rest will fall into place

 

 

Yeah, admittedly, I tend to wallow a bit in my own self pity sometimes because I want to make changes but im a horribly stubborn ass sometimes and it takes me a long time to admit defeat sometimes, even when I know what the end will pretty much be.

 

I do have a ridiuclously busy work and schoolload. I do have plenty of friends, i just dont have time to see them often. they are busy as well. My work schedule sucks balls, by the way. I start work every day starting at 6 am, which means im up by 4:45 in the morning. On days I have school, I dont get home until sometimes 15 hours later, and then Iget to wake up at 445 the next morning again! yay! This week, for instance, my girlfriend invited me out to a club friday night. Guess who has to work six days this week at the hospital instead of five days, including a holiday tomorrow she's not supposed to be working cause she's Jewish , AND then working saturday morning at 7 in the morning? Yep, that would be me. So I cant go clubbing friday night with m friends when i have to be at work at 7 am the next morning. And in case anyone is unaware, going out in NY starts at like, 10 at night, so saying "oh, well, you can go meet her earlier" isnt an option. people don't go out here until quite late, and stay out even later. They get home from work after 7 or 8 pm, get ready, rest a bit, and go out around 10 pm. I try to see my friends once in a while, but the next 9 months are going to be really, really tough for me as it's a mix of school, work, studying, taking a major major exam that will make or break my medical career at this point and that I need to spend at least three months studying for, not to mention getting things together for a visa Im applying for a ton of other responsibilities. Hopefully it will be easier by middle of next year, but right now it just succccccccccks.

 

When MM comes over its usually in the afternoon for an hour or two, when all my friends are working in the city, or in the morning before he goes to work on days that I don't have to be in early. its not really time i can substitute for friends. The only other thing I'd do with that hour or two is take a much needed nap ;-).

 

 

I'll get through it, its just a really bad time in my life, but it doesnt mean i dont take into consideration all the advice i get here. It's a long road to admitting I can get rid of him anyway, so hopefully when my life calms down a bit I'll have the focus I need to really just do it, you know?