If you think you aren't affecting your kids!?

[smartgirl]

My father died about 10 years ago. Since the day we went up to clean out his house I have been rocked with one revelation after another about "my idol."

 

I really did idolize him. Smartest, most cunning, most romantic. The man I thought I wanted to be just like (though I am a woman). He was my point of reference for everything I thought was good - hard working, successful, soulful, philosophical - you name it.

 

About 6 years before he died he tells me and my sibling he is leaving our mother for another woman. Then he never does and never says anything about it again. We are stunned and don't talk about it.

 

He dies. My mother finds out he has been having an affair with another woman. She never tells us, but we know she knows. But we don't know exactly what she knows.

 

My sister starts to piece things together and thinks he was seeing this other woman for a long time -- maybe more than 6 years. Sister tells me NOW that OW's family member had called my sister years ago and she found out OW thinks my mom is a bitch and "won't let him go." My sister informs family member that mother doesn't even know my father is involved with someone else and would be devastated --- and so are we and p*** off.

 

We know my poor mother is devasted and is calling father's friends to try and piece together all the lies -- to figure out what was really the truth and what was a lie.

 

I've never recovered from that. I find out two years ago my H, my other idol, was cheating with a younger co-worker. Made fool of me, lied to me, thought of leaving me. World rocked again.

 

Still recovering after 2-1/2 years after d-day. MOSTLY from the lying - both before and after d-day. Can't take being played for a fool.

 

Now, almost 10 years after father dies, find out from my sister she found evidence when he died that he and my mother had been swinging. From what she saw and what she remembers, feels he was pressuring my mom to have sex with other men they picked up in some way and taking photos. He had issues. I feel like my head is going to fall off my shoulders. I feel like complete s**t. The good was an illusion. The scum was the real truth. Same way I felt after d-day with H. Having trouble separating the two and not feeling like my life is a complete lie. Everything is a lie. Can't believe anyone about anything. Worse thing is -- you never know when the lie is being told to you. You have no option but to trust nothing or to trust everything and not care if you are being lied to.

 

I am trying to cope while I was already trying to get free of recent hurts. No end.

[couchmonkey]

Thank you for posting this. These people that selfishly do this should know that their kids are affected. They should know about the impact of their actions and that their children will eventually become adults who will judge their ethics. Their actions matter.

[imagine]

It is gratifying to know that despite all the manure that lay around, a flower grew from it - you.

[LadyDi]

You father had his life. You can't judge him on how he chose to live it. He loved YOU and your siblings. Was he a good Dad? Then keep that as your reference. Not his personal life. You have to know he would no doubt NEVER want you to have found out about that other stuff. I know it's hurtful, but it was his private life as a man, not as your Dad. Please don't be to harsh on him if he was a good parent. I'm sorry you found out about that stuff.

[LucreziaBorgia]

It affects the kids more than the people who benefit from infidelity would like to admit.

[Trojan John]

You father had his life. You can't judge him on how he chose to live it. He loved YOU and your siblings. Was he a good Dad? Then keep that as your reference. Not his personal life. You have to know he would no doubt NEVER want you to have found out about that other stuff. I know it's hurtful, but it was his private life as a man, not as your Dad. Please don't be to harsh on him if he was a good parent. I'm sorry you found out about that stuff.

 

Yes... stellar example of parenting. Keep damning secrets from the family and treat the mother like sh*t...

[Geishawhelk]

Actually, as a mother who has been ostracised by her two daughters for separating from their father, I can see both sides.

I haven't spoken to my daughtewrs in virtyally 4 years, because I committed the cardinal sin of realising my marriage was over, and leaving it.

Daughters were adult and virtually adult by then, so it's not as if I deliberately abandoned them in desolation. I spoke to them about this....

But no go.

 

So I think whether the dad had been open about it or not, it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

I hate to say it, but adults are adults the world over.

Adults have loves, hates, desires, wants, needs and whatever.

Your parents' private lives have been exposed in what you perceive to be all their ugliness. And you hold your father responsible for coercing your mother into doing stuff.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

But you're judge jury and executioner to a man who isn't there to explain his side of things.

You're assuming a lot of things on circumstantial evidence.

I would urge you to not judge your father based upon this situation, but to see what he did for you your whole life, as a father.

Why did you look up to him?

Have those qualities disappeared now you know about this?

Does it change who you are?

What did he do for you that made you admire him so?

Are those things erased and wiped out just because of this?

 

This man is not who you are.

This man was your ftaher, whatever he did.

Why are you so cruel and unforgiving of a man whom previously, you had put upon a pedestal?

Mighty cruel fall....This isn't fair.

[Lookingforward]

Do we really believe all children are that selfish that they put their wants and needs above those of their parents? Once the parents have raised their children through their formative years, all bets are off imo

 

I would hope I had raised my children to accept that their parents also have the right to be happy and in a loving relationship, regardless of whether that impinges on their children/s percieved "rights" in the family dynamic.

[angie2443]

Some people shouldn't be parents. The thing is, you don't have to be a mature, responsible person to have sex and immature, selfish are more likely to have unprotected sex. This is just how things are. People who have affairs will always say they have a right to their happiness. What they should be saying is that they shouldn't have had children.

[OpenBook]

I feel like my head is going to fall off my shoulders. I feel like complete s**t. The good was an illusion. The scum was the real truth. Same way I felt after d-day with H. Having trouble separating the two and not feeling like my life is a complete lie. Everything is a lie. Can't believe anyone about anything. Worse thing is -- you never know when the lie is being told to you. You have no option but to trust nothing or to trust everything and not care if you are being lied to.

 

I am trying to cope while I was already trying to get free of recent hurts. No end.

 

No, you have another option: to know the truth about the men in your life, and love them anyway. You're still with your H, right? You still love him, in spite of his betrayal - because you know he's a good man in so many respects. And the good far outweighs the bad. It's the human condition; we're all a combination of strengths and flaws, with great capacity to carry out both good and evil.

 

I think your tendency to put men on a pedestal is harming your ability to truly love them. It's not serving you well at all.

[Lookingforward]

Some people shouldn't be parents. The thing is, you don't have to be a mature, responsible person to have sex and immature, selfish are more likely to have unprotected sex. This is just how things are. People who have affairs will always say they have a right to their happiness. What they should be saying is that they shouldn't have had children.

 

The two are NOT exclusive.........one can be a loving responsible parent and STILL be in an unhappy marriage (or out of one).

 

sheesh

[Geishawhelk]

Some people shouldn't be parents. The thing is, you don't have to be a mature, responsible person to have sex and immature, selfish are more likely to have unprotected sex. This is just how things are. People who have affairs will always say they have a right to their happiness. What they should be saying is that they shouldn't have had children.

 

Any person whomsoever they are, has a right to happiness.

 

The trick is to not tread selfishly over other people regardless of their feelings, on the quest for that happiness. But in matters such as these, someone along the line is inevitably going to get hurt. The Seeker-of-Happiness has the duty to implement damage limitation measures, as far as is possible.

But it's also the responsibility of others to deal with the situation in a mature, level-headed manner, and not seek to vilify the SoH, or seek revenge, or bear grudges or develop a destructive and judgemental opinion.

people may be lovers, parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbours, bosses whatever, but first and foremost, they are people. Human beings. As equipped and furnished with flaws, defects, traits and characteristics as much as anyone else is.

 

And whomsoever they are, does not suggest whether they should or should not have children. Not unless they are equipped with a 100% reliable crystal ball.

 

Try and rack my brain as I might, I don't know anyone who's got one of those.

[smartgirl]

I have had a few days to collect myself after the initial shock. I want to thank all of you who lent words of support and understanding.

 

I know the stories of many of those who posted. Specific points of view are known to me and they were apparent in some of the responses. I would like for all to please try and listen to what I have to say and see things from where I sit for a moment.

 

I don't put the men in my life on a pedestal. I was emotional in my first post and that part probably seemed extreme. However, my father and husband are two of the most important people in my life. My father and I were close up to a point and my H and I have been together for almost 35 years - since we were 16. In terms of people I trust, I would say I trusted the two of them more than anyone else. I believed I could based on the way they represented themselves to me and the world.

 

That does not mean that I trusted them not to have sex, not to fall out of love, not to want and seek personal happiness or not to want to make changes in their lives. I did trust them to be honest and to act in private the way they advocated in public. I trusted them not to put me or others we both loved in harm's way or to subject us to humiliation and ridicule. I trusted them to take into account the interests of people they claimed to love, even if they needed to make changes in their lives.

 

It is clear now that my father lived a series of lies. I can't go into everything because it would take too long and too much detail would be exposed, but my sister and I have pieced together enough to know that he was living a secret life for about 20 years and before that was placing my mother in a position of regular degradation. During the nearly 20 years he was manipulating my mother so that he could live a parallel life with another woman. From what we know, the OW was probably being lied to that whole time as well, though she knew she was involved with a married man.

 

The thing I am trying to communicate, poorly I think, is the terrible impact of long term deception by someone you trust. I can understand someone falling out of love, falling in love, wanting to get divorced. I can even understand why people lie about it, though it is hardly admirable. But all the philosophical perspective goes out the window when you are the victim of the deceit. I can tell you that finding out that someone you love and trust has been living a lie with you is deeply, deeply wounding. It alters your view of the past and leaves you with a weakened ability to ever trust again. You don't see them as the same person and you don't feel like the same person anymore. It is a reality altering experience. I don't know that anyone in my position would feel any different.

 

I am trying to communicate that you may try and convince yourself that what you are doing is ok and everyone you hurt will get over it in time. Maybe, maybe not. But they will be hurt and they may in fact be changed forever by what you do to them. Lying is something you do TO them. It is an act of either disregard or hostility and is separate from a person going off to "find happiness." If you are cheating or involved with someone who is cheating you may want to sweep that part under the rug. Not so easy for the spouse or child, even adult child, who finds out you aren't the person you said you were.

[pelicanpreacher]

I have had a few days to collect myself after the initial shock. I want to thank all of you who lent words of support and understanding.

 

I know the stories of many of those who posted. Specific points of view are known to me and they were apparent in some of the responses. I would like for all to please try and listen to what I have to say and see things from where I sit for a moment.

 

I don't put the men in my life on a pedestal. I was emotional in my first post and that part probably seemed extreme. However, my father and husband are two of the most important people in my life. My father and I were close up to a point and my H and I have been together for almost 35 years - since we were 16. In terms of people I trust, I would say I trusted the two of them more than anyone else. I believed I could based on the way they represented themselves to me and the world.

 

That does not mean that I trusted them not to have sex, not to fall out of love, not to want and seek personal happiness or not to want to make changes in their lives. I did trust them to be honest and to act in private the way they advocated in public. I trusted them not to put me or others we both loved in harm's way or to subject us to humiliation and ridicule. I trusted them to take into account the interests of people they claimed to love, even if they needed to make changes in their lives.

 

It is clear now that my father lived a series of lies. I can't go into everything because it would take too long and too much detail would be exposed, but my sister and I have pieced together enough to know that he was living a secret life for about 20 years and before that was placing my mother in a position of regular degradation. During the nearly 20 years he was manipulating my mother so that he could live a parallel life with another woman. From what we know, the OW was probably being lied to that whole time as well, though she knew she was involved with a married man.

 

The thing I am trying to communicate, poorly I think, is the terrible impact of long term deception by someone you trust. I can understand someone falling out of love, falling in love, wanting to get divorced. I can even understand why people lie about it, though it is hardly admirable. But all the philosophical perspective goes out the window when you are the victim of the deceit. I can tell you that finding out that someone you love and trust has been living a lie with you is deeply, deeply wounding. It alters your view of the past and leaves you with a weakened ability to ever trust again. You don't see them as the same person and you don't feel like the same person anymore. It is a reality altering experience. I don't know that anyone in my position would feel any different.

 

I am trying to communicate that you may try and convince yourself that what you are doing is ok and everyone you hurt will get over it in time. Maybe, maybe not. But they will be hurt and they may in fact be changed forever by what you do to them. Lying is something you do TO them. It is an act of either disregard or hostility and is separate from a person going off to "find happiness." If you are cheating or involved with someone who is cheating you may want to sweep that part under the rug. Not so easy for the spouse or child, even adult child, who finds out you aren't the person you said you were.

 

Here! Here! Here! Here! Here! Here! Here! This has been one of the most insightful posts I've read since discovering LS! Thank you for this contribution.

[angie2443]

I am trying to communicate that you may try and convince yourself that what you are doing is ok and everyone you hurt will get over it in time. Maybe, maybe not. But they will be hurt and they may in fact be changed forever by what you do to them. Lying is something you do TO them. It is an act of either disregard or hostility and is separate from a person going off to "find happiness." If you are cheating or involved with someone who is cheating you may want to sweep that part under the rug. Not so easy for the spouse or child, even adult child, who finds out you aren't the person you said you were.

 

I understand what you are saying. My father was a serial cheater among other things. I went through years trying to help him understand how he hurt us all. He never understood, or rather he never cared. The thing with most serial cheaters, and those who have long term affairs, is that they are incapable of respecting their families and will always put themselves first. It is in their natures and can't be changed. If you look at many of the OW's and the WS's here you will see this. For me to heal from this, I had to remove my father from my life. Other people in my family haven't and are paying for that decision every day. I know your situation is differant and am sure you are healing from it in your own way. I guess what I'm trying to say, is, using your energy to make certain people understand how they hurt others with their actions is often useless and fustrating.

[smartgirl]

I understand what you are saying. My father was a serial cheater among other things. I went through years trying to help him understand how he hurt us all. He never understood, or rather he never cared. The thing with most serial cheaters, and those who have long term affairs, is that they are incapable of respecting their families and will always put themselves first. It is in their natures and can't be changed. If you look at many of the OW's and the WS's here you will see this. For me to heal from this, I had to remove my father from my life. Other people in my family haven't and are paying for that decision every day. I know your situation is differant and am sure you are healing from it in your own way. I guess what I'm trying to say, is, using your energy to make certain people understand how they hurt others with their actions is often useless and fustrating.

 

I understand that in these situations people have a vast ability to rationalize away potentially upsetting outcomes of their actions and the words of someone they don't even know is unlikely to move them away from those rationalizations. If they heard the words from their own spouse or children I think they might still miss the point. It is the deception and lies. It is holding yourself up to your children as a role model and parent and then through deception and lies telling them they really can't believe anything you say. It feels very personal because it is. When someone lies to you it is an indication of how they feel about you, or how little they feel about you as the case may be. Thats the way it feels. And when you find out it was directed at you you feel like crap.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You father had his life. You can't judge him on how he chose to live it. He loved YOU and your siblings. Was he a good Dad? Then keep that as your reference. Not his personal life. You have to know he would no doubt NEVER want you to have found out about that other stuff. I know it's hurtful, but it was his private life as a man, not as your Dad. Please don't be to harsh on him if he was a good parent. I'm sorry you found out about that stuff.

 

That is a pile of crap!

 

You can't separate Dad from Man. It's all one person, and if he was a crappy man, then in part that makes him a crappy dad. Insomuch as he is putting his children though this.

 

One person, many hats... but still one person!

[GPFan]

The thing I am trying to communicate, poorly I think, is the terrible impact of long term deception by someone you trust. I can understand someone falling out of love, falling in love, wanting to get divorced. I can even understand why people lie about it, though it is hardly admirable. But all the philosophical perspective goes out the window when you are the victim of the deceit. I can tell you that finding out that someone you love and trust has been living a lie with you is deeply, deeply wounding. It alters your view of the past and leaves you with a weakened ability to ever trust again. You don't see them as the same person and you don't feel like the same person anymore. It is a reality altering experience. I don't know that anyone in my position would feel any different.

 

I am trying to communicate that you may try and convince yourself that what you are doing is ok and everyone you hurt will get over it in time. Maybe, maybe not. But they will be hurt and they may in fact be changed forever by what you do to them. Lying is something you do TO them. It is an act of either disregard or hostility and is separate from a person going off to "find happiness." If you are cheating or involved with someone who is cheating you may want to sweep that part under the rug. Not so easy for the spouse or child, even adult child, who finds out you aren't the person you said you were.

You communicated your feelings perfectly. I understood your message from your first post.

 

Please realise that a few of the responders are advancing their own agenda. When you have time, read their history and you will understand.

 

Other than these few, your point is crystal clear.

[Lookingforward]

Post deleted - didn't seem much point after I posted it.

[torranceshipman]

Wow this must be so, so tough on you...I can totally see how you must be blown away by this and yea, I can see, the guy you thought was your father and your husband do this to you, and it must be hard to understand. Also if you are going to put someone on a pedestal, your H and dad are the people you'd quite understandably do this to if you are close to them. Maybe the biggest thing to process is how incredibly disrespectful your father was to your mum-and by extension you and your siblings-when you thought he was a loving, honest guy. Really horrible and I'm not surprised you're questioning your ability to trust others.

 

Not saying much more than hugs to you! xx

[angie2443]

I just wanted to comment on the pedestal issue. IMO, it is never a good idea to put another person on a pedestal, although I think we all do this as children. If you put someone on a pedestal, they will eventually fall from grace and dissapoint you. It is good to admire others who are worthy of bieng admired. It is bad to expect that they can never do any wrong. Just my opinion.