pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 I'll admit that I have a history of suffering from poor self image. It's something I am working on and have been working on, by myself and in therapy. It's one of the main reason why I'm 30 and have relatively little dating experience. Here's the thing. I know I am a likable person. People want to be around me, they like talking to me, they think I'm witty, interesting and fun. I have no problem making friends at all. However, crossing that barrier from being asexual to sexual is almost impossible for me! I guess I get positive reinforcement from the opposite sex. Friends and guys say I'm very attractive, cute and beautiful. But I don't believe it. As a consequence, I immediately "Friend Zone" guys, because I'm just not flirty or think they would even be interested in me in a romantic way. I present myself as "one of the guys." I guess I'm just getting frustrated with myself! My 20's are gone, and now here I am 30, and my whatever I have left of my looks, will diminish with each passing year. Any tips on how to build my self-esteem?
quankanne Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 learn to accept and like yourself for who you are. And start thinking of yourself in terms of a sexual being ... you won't be as apt to FZ guys
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 I do! I write, I play music, I hang out with my friends. I live a very full life.
carhill Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 PG, celebrate your femininity. I have a feeling you downplay your natural femininity to project being "one of the guys". It's a combination of your look, your dress style and your mannerisms. I did exactly the opposite (for a guy) for years. It's a big part of why I ended up as a girlfriend with a penis as much as I did. You're not a guy. Men don't want you to be a guy. The love the differences. I think you know what I mean
Kamille Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 I understand how you feel because I suffer from the same disease. In spite of proof to the contrary, I never really feel attractive. But here is one thing I came to realize: men are a lot more open-minded about looks then women are. By that I mean that if you're a woman and you take minimal care of yourself, you can likely bet that most men in your age group find that there's something attractive about you. Men like women. Plain and simple.
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 PG, celebrate your femininity. I have a feeling you downplay your natural femininity to project being "one of the guys". It's a combination of your look, your dress style and your mannerisms. I did exactly the opposite (for a guy) for years. It's a big part of why I ended up as a girlfriend with a penis as much as I did. You're not a guy. Men don't want you to be a guy. The love the differences. I think you know what I mean In personality, I am totally a dude. In that way, my friends say I intimidate guys because I seem so confident, funny and smart. They can't compete. In dress, I have to say I have pretty good style. I wear dresses, skirts, skinny jean, etc. But never anything "sexy." In fact, my friends always tell me I need to wear tighter clothes to show off my figure! But on the occasion that I do, I feel really uncomfortable. I understand how you feel because I suffer from the same disease. In spite of proof to the contrary, I never really feel attractive. But here is one thing I came to realize: men are a lot more open-minded about looks then women are. By that I mean that if you're a woman and you take minimal care of yourself, you can likely bet that most men in your age group find that there's something attractive about you. Men like women. Plain and simple. You are right, Kamille! Guys are very open-minded. But, I guess I hold myself up to some crazy standard...in all parts of my life really. Plus, I don't know if it matters, but I'm Asian, so I feel like I have a whole other complex about not being this little, petite, porcelain doll type girl.
carhill Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Plus, I don't know if it matters, but I'm Asian, so I feel like I have a whole other complex about not being this little, petite, porcelain doll type girl. PG, that's a stereotype. You know it is. Most guys who find Asian women attractive like them in all shapes and sizes. My best female friend was a lot like the stereotype (she was tall and thin and ethnic Cantonese) but she still had a lot of "male" mannerisms and I was forever giving her grief and trying to get her into short skirts and heels but she was a Levi's, t-shirt and ponytail kind of gal. My bet is, as you grow older, you'll become more comfortable in your skin. That sounds backwards, but I think it's true. I saw a big difference from my early 30's to now regarding self-image. Even if the reflection is older, the inside likes and is more comfortable with the outside
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 Haha. Well, I'm not tall or fat or anything. I guess you COULD call me petite...but I like to think of myself as TOUGH. Deep down, I am very feminine, maternal, kind and sweet, but I feel like I have to put up this front of being snarky and penetrable. (Emotional wall, anyone?) Many people say I'm beautiful. But I just don't see it. I wish I could.
quankanne Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 like I said, you need to learn to accept yourself and like yourself for who you are – that woman who deep down is feminine, maternal, kind and sweet. You don't have to be tough/competent chica 24/7, you know? there's always the alternative to getting guys out of the friend zone: Q: How do you capture a guy's attention? A: Show up at his door nekkid and bring food. just some food for thought
Nemo Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Get two or three FWBs, and rotate. Unleash the sexual panda within. After several hundred therapy sessions, you'll be ready to be released into the wild.
marlena Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Get two or three FWBs, and rotate. Unleash the sexual panda within. In a way, I agree with Nemo. Nothing better for feeling sexy than actually having sex. It will unleish your femininity, your sensual,tactile side. You will feel sexy and people will pick up on this. You are young and single. Now is the time to explore your sexuality. I am not saying just sleep with anyone but if there is someone you like, send of the right signals and go for it. The first step is to get go off the "one of the guys" mentality. It is a turn off really. Men will never see your feminine side unless you let them. I also agree with your friends that dressing in a more feminine way will make you feel sexy as well as making men stand up and take notice. Dressing in a feminine way does not mean dressing in a sluttish way. Far from it. Find feminine clothes that appeal to you and are in keeping with your your personality. And above all, give off an air of confidence, even when you don't feel it. Confidence does not mean arrogance or conceit. True confidence is quiet and subtle and let's people know that you know your own worth.
marlena Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Dear pandagirl, living a full live externally does not necessarily mean that inwardly you also feel fulfilled. Maybe instead of distracting your mind with too much of external activities you should turn to yourself and seek for some answers inside. I totally agree with this. Filling your life with people and events, keeping active so as to allay whatever it is that is nagging at you inside, is not going to work. I find that dealing with problems actually means turning away from distractions and going through a period of stillness and quiet so that your own voice can be heard louder. This inner-dialogue should not scare you. You will discover yourself, all your inner complexities, and touch base with what the root of whatever your problems might be. Once you've recognized what they are, then, you will address them and begin working on them. You might have to make adjustments,changes,compromises but all this will do is enhance your good qualities and correct your not so good qualtities. True condfidence comes from within. It is an awareness of your own uniqueness and worth.
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 In a way, I agree with Nemo. Nothing better for feeling sexy than actually having sex. It will unleish your femininity, your sensual,tactile side. You will feel sexy and people will pick up on this. You are young and single. Now is the time to explore your sexuality. I am not saying just sleep with anyone but if there is someone you like, send of the right signals and go for it. . I would be all for this, except when I was 23, a cheating boyfriend gave me the STD that never goes away, and because I am responsible and honest, casual sex is something that difficult for me to do. It's so unfair, but what can ya do? Dear pandagirl, I find that dealing with problems actually means turning away from distractions and going through a period of stillness and quiet so that your own voice can be heard louder. This inner-dialogue should not scare you. You will discover yourself, all your inner complexities, and touch base with what the root of whatever your problems might be. Once you've recognized what they are, then, you will address them and begin working on them. You might have to make adjustments,changes,compromises but all this will do is enhance your good qualities and correct your not so good qualtities. True condfidence comes from within. It is an awareness of your own uniqueness and worth. Yes, I totally agree. I have never been one to back down from the real root of the problem and I'm trying to recognize them and address them. It's just been a long road with a lot of bumps that I wish I didn't have to deal with.
Trialbyfire Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 pandagirl, did you feel this way about yourself previous to age 23?
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 Oh yes, definitely. As long as I can remember! The whole STD thing was just...a really big set back.
Trialbyfire Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 It's not only the STD component but the cheating component as well. In order to move forward, you have to seriously address the traumatic events in your life. This starts from within, not externally. The confidence of external starts from inside of you. You accept your flaws to a reasonable extent and accept that you have more positive than negative. Saying you believe to everyone, including yourself, doesn't mean you do believe. Also, the external is the easiest to control. It's what I've noticed about a lot of people who feel similar to yourself. They focus on affecting the external, where no matter how beautiful they've made themselves externally, internally, they're still the same person.
Kamille Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 You know, I was thinking that all in all my lack of confidence about my looks hasn't really affected my love life. Perhaps I'm not the most flirtatious girl out there, but when I'm really into a guy, it happens naturally. I certainly don't act with that "I'm hot" confidence, but guys still hit on me and approach me. Usually not the type of guys who "need" a hot girlfriend, but that, in and of itself is rather a good thing. A friend pointed out to me that all my exes were classical "hot" by general standard. (I thought they were hot... but then that's why I was with them). One thing I have had to learn though is the art of seduction and it does come from believing in yourself, as has been pointed out by many. You don't need to feel good about your looks to know you have a lot to offer to someone.
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 When I'm in a social setting, if I'm not interested in a guy, I have no problem with self-confidence. But, if I see a guy who I might like, I go into complete shutdown mode. Every guy I've ever dated has agressively pursued me. That seems to be the only way it's ever worked out. But you guys are right, being attractive doesn't really have to do with your appearance, but your attitude. Augh! I don't even know how to "seduce" someone. My seduction skills are more akin to what Sarah Silverman might do. haha. In other words, NOT sexy.
carhill Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 The reflection will change, markedly so as one enters their later years, but the essence, the core of oneself, remains immutable and constant. We each have full control and influence over that essence and how we present it to the world. Tell me, OP, how do you think this guy faces our world every day? Where do you think his energy to live and grow comes from? I picked an extreme example to illustrate the conundrum and erstwhile uneasy symbiosis between the superficial and the complex and deep. In case you don't know who he is, he's a well-known physicist, Stephen Hawking. He's also a father and grandfather. Your postings have indicated to me that you have the essence to be and do great things for yourself and others. Your journey is to come to believe, trust and celebrate that essence. All the rest is just wrapping. Believe and you shall be
Trialbyfire Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 pandagirl, I'm going out on a limb here and could be completely wrong but I get the feeling it's very important to you that people believe you're a nice person. That's not to say you're not a good person inside. It also doesn't mean you should never care about about showing people who you are, so they understand you. It means that to rely on external opinion to govern and guide how you feel about yourself, is self-defeating. While you'll find people who will validate you and others who will bash you, due to their own insecurities or unhappiness, the person who you need to convince and accept you, is yourself. This also means that you don't have to appear to be nice all the time. It's really okay to have bad times. It's also okay that not everyone finds you attractive or wants to be your friend. I would only be worried if you can't ever get a date or have no friends. Internalizing every rejection, be it romantic or friend, only hurts you. It erodes your self-confidence and in many ways, is kind of controlling, in that to internalize, you then believe you can control each and every issue. Once again, I could be completely off-base. You know yourself best.
Kamille Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 I hear you and I sometimes feel the same way. But, my seduction philosophy is "let them come to you". Basically, stay balanced. I remind myself that no one's life depends on whether or not I impress the object of my affection and I try to hang back a little. It seems to work for some reason. I guess it might create an air of mystery. I used to always try to impress - which would mean that I would often end up initiating the conversation. Holding back actually creates a more balanced exchange. If a guy wants to know me he'll have to ask a few questions. Also, I find nothing works better for seduction then touching the object of affection while in the middle of conversation, either on the arm or back, and, if you feel perticularly bold, knee. If you haven't included touching to your flirting techniques yet, practice on a friend. Once you discover the power of "the touch", it'll come quite spontaneously to you.
Final Girl Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 Hi Panda. What kind of hobbies do you have?? I took up drama and dance when I was diagnosed with cancer some time ago - I lost all my hair and I felt SO unattractive. But when I took up my new classes and was feeling healthier (it's amazing the feel good factor that can come from dancing, or any exercise really) and more confident (the drama helped there), then I stopped focusing so much on the negative. I also want to say to you that women in their thirties and forties and fifties - and sixties - can look absolutely GORGEOUS!!! If their confidence shines from within, there is no reason at all why they would be any less unattractive just because they aren't young anymore. In fact, I think older women can be the most beautiful of every living creature!!! Listen to your friends when they tell you how beautiful you are. They are your friends - they love you and won't lie to you...your own worst enemy might be that little voice in your own head. A trick I do when I talk badly to myself, is put my words into a Mickey Mouse voice..that way I don't listen lol!! It sounds silly but it works a little bit.
Author pandagirl Posted October 4, 2008 Author Posted October 4, 2008 Tell me, OP, how do you think this guy faces our world every day? Where do you think his energy to live and grow comes from? I picked an extreme example to illustrate the conundrum and erstwhile uneasy symbiosis between the superficial and the complex and deep. In case you don't know who he is, he's a well-known physicist, Stephen Hawking. He's also a father and grandfather. Your postings have indicated to me that you have the essence to be and do great things for yourself and others. Your journey is to come to believe, trust and celebrate that essence. All the rest is just wrapping. Believe and you shall be Oh, I totally agree. I think my problems, in general, are insignifcant compared to others, which in turn makes me feel selfish and just makes me want to get over it, because in the grand scheme of things, how I *look* is not something to get upset over. Which brings me to TBF's comment: pandagirl, I'm going out on a limb here and could be completely wrong but I get the feeling it's very important to you that people believe you're a nice person. That's not to say you're not a good person inside. It also doesn't mean you should never care about about showing people who you are, so they understand you. It means that to rely on external opinion to govern and guide how you feel about yourself, is self-defeating. While you'll find people who will validate you and others who will bash you, due to their own insecurities or unhappiness, the person who you need to convince and accept you, is yourself. This also means that you don't have to appear to be nice all the time. It's really okay to have bad times. It's also okay that not everyone finds you attractive or wants to be your friend. I would only be worried if you can't ever get a date or have no friends. Internalizing every rejection, be it romantic or friend, only hurts you. It erodes your self-confidence and in many ways, is kind of controlling, in that to internalize, you then believe you can control each and every issue. Once again, I could be completely off-base. You know yourself best. You are 100% spot on. It's sort of my "thing" that I am a "nice person." I'm not a pushover or sacchrine sweet, but I think I was born as extremely sensitive to other's feelings, and thus I am naturally very thoughtful of others. I am that person that people can count on when they need someone. People feel like they can tell me things and trust me. But, though it's sincere, I realize I have also probably honed this quality to overcompensate for my "lack" of other qualities, like me feeling unattractive. That if I am a "nice" enough person, that is good enough. I need people to validate me in this way. The part I bolded rings VERY true of me. I internalize every rejection, and blame myself. I want to have control and be IN control. If you're familiar with my situation with this guy I dated, who I tried to be friends with, but I kept on crossing the line with him, and eventually he just got frustrated and blew me off. I was so, so disappointed with myself, because "nice" Pandagirl should have never acted in this way. A "good person" would have not done this. Also, I find nothing works better for seduction then touching the object of affection while in the middle of conversation, either on the arm or back, and, if you feel perticularly bold, knee. If you haven't included touching to your flirting techniques yet, practice on a friend. Once you discover the power of "the touch", it'll come quite spontaneously to you. Even THINKING of doing this makes me uncomfortable!
carhill Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 You are 100% spot on. It's sort of my "thing" that I am a "nice person." I'm not a pushover or sacchrine sweet, but I think I was born as extremely sensitive to other's feelings, and thus I am naturally very thoughtful of others. I am that person that people can count on when they need someone. People feel like they can tell me things and trust me.Ah, know this path well. The good news is time and life experience will teach you balance. You have a gift. When you get to be my age you can look back and see just how valuable a gift you have. Don't compromise it by letting others influence you. Your value flows from your core. Stay positive and ignore the naysayers or those who might seek to hurt you. They have their own path
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