serialgf Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Uh, no. That doesn't happen all the time. ONS's, on the other hand, do happen all the time. They're called ONE NIGHT for a reason. really? i honestly wonder if you're right.... maybe i should start another thread to get a consensus... i'm feeling like such a freak of nature right now it happened to me before... i had sex with a guy the first night i met him and then we started dating afterwards and we ended up dating for a year and its happened to a lot of my friends too....
Star Gazer Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 that's exactly why i think its okay that he likes someone else... i guess i am just separating the sex from the feelings... it's like i'm disregarding the sex... i know it happened i understand that but it has little to nothing to do with the dating part... it's almost like it was an accident... i don't know if anyone can relate to what i'm saying..... So then it would be okay if he was sleeping with both of you? You're right. To each their own. That would SO not be okay by me.
serialgf Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 So then it would be okay if he was sleeping with both of you? You're right. To each their own. That would SO not be okay by me. no dude i would totally NOT be okay with that... geez he's not even sure if he really likes her... i mean he hasn't done anything with her... if he did i'm sure he would tell me and then i would.. you got it... peace out! i like hearing your perspective though, and everyone else's at the shack
Ronni_W Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 ... i guess i am just separating the sex from the feelings... it's like i'm disregarding the sex... like it was an accident... [And in your earlier post] i would totally peace out if a guy i started dating were sleeping with or dating another girl... i can't handle that sh*t I think I'm understanding generally what you are saying, but I'm not getting how you reconcile it that, for you, it's okay to separate sex from feelings, disregard your sexual activity and view it as an accident... but then, if a guy started doing that (about sex that he is having with someone other than you) that would freak you out. For me, it's not just the sex act but more importantly about how I view and treat my body. As Star Gazer says, to each their own. But I've always felt that my body (sexually and sensually) is a gift that I have to give. And from that perspective, I've been rather careful and cautionary about who gets to indulge in this gift of mine. For me, guys have to EARN their right to indulge. Maybe also something about, if too many people get it, then it stops being special and meaningful...for me, and also for any partner I would have in the future. It (my body) would no longer be able to accurately represent 'me' in the ways that *I* want it to.
Author gummybear Posted September 30, 2008 Author Posted September 30, 2008 I think I'm understanding generally what you are saying, but I'm not getting how you reconcile it that, for you, it's okay to separate sex from feelings, disregard your sexual activity and view it as an accident... but then, if a guy started doing that (about sex that he is having with someone other than you) that would freak you out. For me, it's not just the sex act but more importantly about how I view and treat my body. As Star Gazer says, to each their own. But I've always felt that my body (sexually and sensually) is a gift that I have to give. And from that perspective, I've been rather careful and cautionary about who gets to indulge in this gift of mine. For me, guys have to EARN their right to indulge. Maybe also something about, if too many people get it, then it stops being special and meaningful...for me, and also for any partner I would have in the future. It (my body) would no longer be able to accurately represent 'me' in the ways that *I* want it to. I'm like that too. I can't just give my body away to anyone. It has to be someone special who also treats me special too.
serialgf Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I think I'm understanding generally what you are saying, but I'm not getting how you reconcile it that, for you, it's okay to separate sex from feelings, disregard your sexual activity and view it as an accident... but then, if a guy started doing that (about sex that he is having with someone other than you) that would freak you out. For me, it's not just the sex act but more importantly about how I view and treat my body. As Star Gazer says, to each their own. But I've always felt that my body (sexually and sensually) is a gift that I have to give. And from that perspective, I've been rather careful and cautionary about who gets to indulge in this gift of mine. For me, guys have to EARN their right to indulge. Maybe also something about, if too many people get it, then it stops being special and meaningful...for me, and also for any partner I would have in the future. It (my body) would no longer be able to accurately represent 'me' in the ways that *I* want it to. i agree with pretty much everything you've said. but at the same time i don't always walk the walk. sometimes my libido gets the best of me and bam i'm having sex with a guy i barely know... mind you this has only happened to me a few times (though by some peoples standards i guess that's promiscuous - again to each his own) about your first question, about how i reconcile it i guess the difference for me would be that if he screwed another girl, we've already started the dating process and that would not be cool. when i slept with him we were not yet dating so it wasn't the coolest but it was okay. does that make sense? really i love hearing other perspectives on this... both of the threads have been very informative
Author gummybear Posted September 30, 2008 Author Posted September 30, 2008 i agree with pretty much everything you've said. but at the same time i don't always walk the walk. sometimes my libido gets the best of me and bam i'm having sex with a guy i barely know... mind you this has only happened to me a few times (though by some peoples standards i guess that's promiscuous - again to each his own) about your first question, about how i reconcile it i guess the difference for me would be that if he screwed another girl, we've already started the dating process and that would not be cool. when i slept with him we were not yet dating so it wasn't the coolest but it was okay. does that make sense? really i love hearing other perspectives on this... both of the threads have been very informative You say your libido gets the best of you. The difference is, that while I have sexual urges, I don't give into them because I think of the consequences and it helps me to back off. Maybe next time you get these urges, try thinking of the consequences and it might help you to not jump in bed with someone so quickly.
serialgf Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 i guess i just don't feel like having the occassional ONS is wrong... but what you said is definitely something to consider
Ronni_W Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 i guess the difference for me would be that if he screwed another girl, we've already started the dating process and that would not be cool. when i slept with him we were not yet dating so it wasn't the coolest but it was okay. does that make sense? It only makes sense to me that it makes sense for you . I can't quite wrap my head around it, but neither one of us is counting on me to do that so...no harm, no foul, right? But, I'm taking it that by scheduling one first date, you feel that you two are involved in a "dating process" and, even before your first date you ARE now dating (cos you said, when you had sex, you were not YET dating...as if you are, now)? -- to me, THAT perception/belief is loaded with risks for disappointments and harsh realities. Okay...I think I'm gaining some clarity. You put more stock in a first date than in a first sexual encounter (is that right?) -- whereas my own thing is the absolute and total opposite of that. I can go on a hundred dates with the same guy and not feel all "involved"...until we both make a conscious, mutual decision about it, and verbalize our commitments to exclusivity and whatever else. I agree with you, btw, that occasional one night stands are not some evil "sin", nor indicative of moral decay or mental breakdown. But, as GummyBear says, there is something that feels good, about being able to manage one's own physical, emotional, mental and spiritual needs, and fulfill them in positive, self-affirming ways. Kind of, "Sometimes I have sex as if by accident" isn't necessarily a thing that'll make us feel our super-best. Can I ask: Do you sometimes have sex with a guy with the hope that he will end up liking you...perhaps even enough to ask you out on a date?
serialgf Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 nice post. thanks for considering my perspective. i don't feel like as much of a psychofreak lets see here... i'm gonna take it point by point my responses are in bold... It only makes sense to me that it makes sense for you . I can't quite wrap my head around it, but neither one of us is counting on me to do that so...no harm, no foul, right? right! But, I'm taking it that by scheduling one first date, you feel that you two are involved in a "dating process" and, even before your first date you ARE now dating (cos you said, when you had sex, you were not YET dating...as if you are, now)? yes -- to me, THAT perception/belief is loaded with risks for disappointments and harsh realities. why is that? please tell me... i don't always make the best decisions... Okay...I think I'm gaining some clarity. You put more stock in a first date than in a first sexual encounter (is that right?) BINGO!-- whereas my own thing is the absolute and total opposite of that. I can go on a hundred dates with the same guy and not feel all "involved"...until we both make a conscious, mutual decision about it, and verbalize our commitments to exclusivity and whatever else. yes i do put a lot more stock into a date than into having sex... but at the same time please keep in mind that i have had four ONS's (counting this one which isn't really a ONS because now we are dating but i'll throw it in there) in my whole life - if that - it may only be three i can't count right now. most of my dating life has been long-term committed relationships I agree with you, btw, that occasional one night stands are not some evil "sin", nor indicative of moral decay or mental breakdown. But, as GummyBear says, there is something that feels good, about being able to manage one's own physical, emotional, mental and spiritual needs, and fulfill them in positive, self-affirming ways. yes i agree with you on that.... i can only dream of having gummy's level of morality ....seriously Kind of, "Sometimes I have sex as if by accident" isn't necessarily a thing that'll make us feel our super-best. word. Can I ask: Do you sometimes have sex with a guy with the hope that he will end up liking you...perhaps even enough to ask you out on a date? nope. i can honestly say that. i don't know its just like i have sex and dating in two separate compartments in my brain. the times i have slept with someone the first night we hooked up were all under different circumstances. geez maybe it would just be more helpful to go through them: 1) good friend and i drunkenly started having sex. i didn't like it he could tell. he stopped half-way 2) guy i had had a crush on really hard core for years. we did some drugs together and had sex and i was blacked out and didn't even remember if it had happened the next morning but he confirmed it. i was excited about finally getting in his pants because i thought he was the bee's knees for so long but at the time we had sex my crush had kind of waned and i saw it for what it was - i had no desire to date him and just chalked it up as a conquest for me! woohoo! 3) i got totally smashed at my friends wedding in florida and had a drunken threesome with two hot dudes who i knew i would never see again! good times! 4)this guy Geez - i'm glad i took the time to write that down because it made me realize all of the ONS's i've had have been due to alcohol - I can't believe I never noticed that. Aside from those, there was one other guy who i had sex with, while SOBER mind you, the first day we met.. and that turned into a one-year relationship so I am not counting it as a ONS but it's worth an honorable mention...
Isolde Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I think the one difference with me is that I don't normally date mutliple people because there usually aren't multiple people I'm interested in. It normally takes me awhile just to find one person I thnk is special enough to me to date. Gummybear, I have a similar problem... I'm not easily interested, and guys arent easily interested in me... problem is when the two things combine, I end up investing way too much and being gutted if things don't work. Any suggestions for not investing so much?
gd26 Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Gummybear, I have a similar problem... I'm not easily interested, and guys arent easily interested in me... problem is when the two things combine, I end up investing way too much and being gutted if things don't work. Any suggestions for not investing so much? That's my same problem. From here forth, I have to just remind myself to settle down and not get too excited until he's shown me over the course of many months that he really digs me that much. And as I've repeated, from here forth, I will take note of how much he is investing in me. If he gives me a lot of attention, I will feel free to do the same. But if he gets distant, I won't keep pursuing him either. I think that's what it boils down to.
amymarieca Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I would have to say that I am more on serialgf's side here. I don't believe that you owe someone a commitment just because you have been on some dates with them. Until you discuss exclusivity with the person, you are free to go on dates with other people. It has become a common thing in this day and age to only date one person in the beginning and I don't understand why. I even had a discussion with my grandmother, and she told me that it was perfectly normally when she was a teenager to go on dates with different people all the time. Why have people gotten so conservative? I am not including sex in my opinion. While I don't believe it is morally wrong to have many sexual partners, I believe it can be a safety issue. That is where you have to be careful and always use protection.
Ronni_W Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 nice post. thanks for considering my perspective. i don't feel like as much of a psychofreak We are ALL freakin' psycho...IMHO. Just about different things, and just that some of us don't mind to admit it. you feel that you two are involved in a "dating process" and, even before your first date you ARE now dating (cos you said, when you had sex, you were not YET dating...as if you are, now)? yes -- to me, THAT perception/belief is loaded with risks for disappointments and harsh realities. why is that? please tell me... i don't always make the best decisions... For me, when it comes to dating and relationships, it makes sense to keep in mind what are the 'generally accepted' views and approaches. We can moan about outdated "moral codes" and complain about others' judgments and intolerances but...when we get off our little soap box, guys STILL are not gonna see a first date (or the whole collection of 'initial dates') as the beginning of dating, or a relationship, or anything close to that. It doesn't even matter why they don't or why they "should" -- it just matters that you are going in there with WILDLY different expectations, that can lead to unnecessary and painful misunderstandings. Cos. When a guy asks you on a first (or 12th) date, he is NOT promising you fidelity...or anything else. When he promises it, is when he promises it. When he asks you for it, is when he wants it. The mere act of asking, "Wanna catch a movie? (or whatever)" means NOTHING else. He owes you a movie, that's it. So. To ever expect someone to deliver what they did NOT specifically promise or agree to deliver...that is just you setting yourself up for disappointment when it doesn't get delivered, which it won't get delivered. If that makes sense? yes i do put a lot more stock into a date than into having sex... its just like i have sex and dating in two separate compartments in my brain. Same thing here. And NOT to deny your right to value whatever you value, and to prioritize however you want to prioritize. But, in the general population, people put more stock in having sex than in dating, and they view sex as an extension of a deeper and more meaningful relationship. So again, you open yourself up to being negatively judged by those who do not share your same views and priorities which, like I said, is the majority of people, generally speaking. If you do not put any stock others' judgments and opinions, that is a very good thing. But you are, nonetheless, accumulating a personal history of drunken/stoned sex with basic strangers. Not that you will ever need to explain or excuse it to anyone else but it is a question of: Do you want that for yourself? Unfortunately, there still are double-standards when it comes to male and female sexuality and sexual activity. four ONS's (counting this one which isn't really a ONS because now we are dating Well, yeah, this one was an ONS, too -- your thought processes and behaviour at the time of the sex act ought to be the determining factor...so that you can accurately assess any patterns that you might want to change at a later time. (Which makes your 'sober' ONS also a ONS, despite how it worked out subsequently.) And I'm gonna say it again: You are NOT "now dating". When you two start dating, he will be 100% in on it, too. It will be something that you discussed and decided together. Geez - i'm glad i took the time to write that down because it made me realize all of the ONS's i've had have been due to alcohol Now see...here you are gonna make me go all "mom" on you . No, I don't have to <yeah!>. I'm gonna suggest some books, instead: 1. Goddesses In Everywoman, by Jean Shinoda Bolen 2. A Goddess is a Girl's Best Friend, by Laurie Sue Brockway 3. Knowing Woman, by Irene Claremont de Castillejo #2 is probably the 'funnest/easiest' to read. It's listed on amazon.com. #3 is a bit 'dry', so I'd suggest #1 instead. But. If you don't wanna do a whole long read, at least google 'Aphrodite' . And maybe 'Athena' would appeal, too.
You'reasian Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 To be clear, however... I would never date someone I knew to be sleeping with someone. Ever. I also wouldn't sleep with someone who I knew was even dating anyone else. Ever. My response was limited to the first few casual dates only. Why do some women hold onto some really, really intense pictures (and I'm talkin' dur-teh) of themselves with their ex while they are in a committed relationship? Is this like dudes who look at porn?
D-Lish Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 So I'm reading threads here about a girl dating/sleeping with a guy who's also interested in another woman (sorry serialgf, your thread just so happens to be on top) and so many threads about guys who don't want to commit, etc. And ofcourse, girls who stick by these guys regardlessless. And I"m thinking, for girls who do that, are you actually ok with wanting to be with a guy who's not totally into you? Are you ok with settling for less and for being with a guy who does not even see you as one of his top priorities? I dunno but that would make me pretty frustrated personally. I mean I understand if you've been dating the guy for a few months and everything was great at first but then some issues came up which is normal and you're trying to save the relationship since you've invested so much in it. But if you've only gone out with the dude for 3 dates and he's treating you that way, I mean is it really that desirable for you anymore? I don't have an issue dating someone who is dating more than one person (not going to sleep with him though)... I would have an issue if the person seemed too hung up on another person- I'd see it as a red flag and potential for getting hurt. I'd bail after the first date if a guy spent too much time talking about another girl.
LoveDeluxe78 Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 To be clear, however... I would never date someone I knew to be sleeping with someone. Ever. I also wouldn't sleep with someone who I knew was even dating anyone else. Ever. My response was limited to the first few casual dates only. So you mean you won't sleep with them until you're exclusive, or are you talking about situations where you know with certainty that they are not sleeping with someone else? What about these vague situations where you two are not exclusive, you want to sleep with them, and you haven't had the talk, so you assume they are dating/sleeping with other people, but don't know for sure. How would you approach this situation?
LoveDeluxe78 Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 OK, this is a great post, but it's got me all confused! lol I've been "dating" a guy for a month now. We go on formal dates and do fun things together like concerts, comedy clubs, dinners, drinks, etc. Therefore, we are "dating", but since it's only been once a week, nothing too emotionally invested yet, but I like him and can see this going somewhere. I've avoided going to his place and inviting him to mine because we haven't had sex! We haven't had any talks of exclusivity so I'm not having sex with him, not because I think a person needs unequivocal commitment before having sex with someone, I am just doing it to be safe because I know a part of me thinks I may want something more with this guy so I don't want to sabotage it and to see what can develop. Now my question is, I am assuming he's dating other girls. I haven't asked! So what I decide to have sex with him before there is the talk of exclusivity, since I'm assuming most people sleep with other people before they are exclusive; do I then propose that he NOT sleep with other people, but CAN date other people? I am not too sure we are ready for that exclusive talk yet since it's soooo early on! Or should I just hold off on the sex for another month or two until that time potentially comes? And how do you know someone is disinterested v. taking things VERY slow??
Ronni_W Posted October 1, 2008 Posted October 1, 2008 it's got me all confused! And you got ME even more confused -- Are you saying: You do not want to have non-exclusive sex with this particular guy, but your intuition is saying that you two are not yet ready for the "exclusive" talk? If so, then yes...your ONLY solution is to not have sex with this particular guy, yet. (You could go against your own intuition, but that's seldom worked out to my advantage when I've done it...go by your own prior experiences of doing it, is my suggestion on that.) Disinterested vs. way too slow? -- Not really sure. What's your intuition telling you?
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