samspade Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 i didnt want you to throw it out the window like you said you would. I love that ring but the meaning it was supposed to hold is no longer there for me...it is now just a beautiful piece of jewelry. All the hopes and dreams i once could see are not there anymore. So this is what i want to do down the line.....You can keep the center stone and use it for whatever you'd like. The setting i think we should sell, I'm sure we could get at least $2,000 for it Veto this. Tell her that since the ring holds no meaning, she can now give it back to you. The entire ring. Tell her you didn't ask her what she wants to do and you don't care. I want you to understand something....I am not coming back to you, you need to move on. I made this very clear before but you cant seem to grasp it. I said i will be in your life, but that doesnt mean you can call, text, or show up when ever you'd like and expect a response. We can talk once in a while but I dont need anymore time to see that you've change. I dont like when you send me texts or emails 3 times a day...it pisses me off. I dont like the games you play in order to get a response out of me. I said that when we do by chance talk i didnt want to have the same conversations we were about how much you've changed, that i didn't give you a second chance, or about what went on in our relationship Tell her you understand completely, and you don't want her in your life anymore either, and once she gives you back your ring you will never contact her again. You keep saying it is my ring and no one elses and you're right...it is my ring. The ring i picked out and the ring that fit so perfectly on my finger. I didnt want you to give it to some else or sell it cheap, like you have with other things to get rid of them. I don't know what you've been saying to this chick, but make very clear that it was your ring if she were to accept your engagement. Since she rejected your offer, the ring should be returned. What you choose to do with it is none of her damned business. As for her being too busy, you need to call b.s. on this. It takes five seconds for her to hand the ring over to you. Tell her you know she has five seconds to spare, and if she says she doesn't, that it's clear she doesn't want to give back to you what's rightfully yours (at least in a moral sense). Beyond that, I don't know what legal ground you have to stand on. Of course, she can avoid any attempt by you get the ring back. But you at least need to cut through all of this crap and find out whether she is willing to give you back the ring or if she is determined to keep it. You may want to consult a lawyer, so you know going into your next attempt with her what you have to threaten her with. But quit losing time on this. If you think her dad will help you, then go that route. Screw her, use whatever angle you can. Your days of worrying about her family and whether or not they're dragged into anything are over. If this man has a moral compass and actually feels shame over the way his daughter whored herself out for a free ring, then maybe he can help. I have no idea. But you don't need to play nice with her - all's fair. One more thing: She made it seem that she left me because of the mistreatment from me and the issues we were having and i thought i could change that. Of course she did. It's never a woman's fault when she breaks up with a guy. And you let her manipulate her into thinking you could get her back.
samspade Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 Dude, you don't get it. You GAVE her a 14k ring. Then when you said "I want it back" she said "Leave me alone and don't bother me". Does that sound like someone who loves and cares about you? Send her a message. I want the ring back. I am coming on Saturday to pick it up. No excuses. If I don't have the ring in my hand by Saturday, I will see you in Court. Stop playing around with this girl. She is playing you for a fool. Stop being foolish, MAN UP and GO GET YOUR RING BACK! CaliGuy is one of the few people on these boards who gives consistently great advice. Listen to this man.
Author eugene3 Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 Thank caliguy and samspade. I am going to send her a e-mail 2night. Can you or cali help me write a e-mail that is strong and well worded, and convincing??? please???? my e-mail address is [email protected] This girl does not for one sec take me serious and we all know why so a well written encouraging e-mail is what i want to send her. you seem to be good at wording you sentences and so does caliguy. please help me out guys....
samspade Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 It should be in your words. Not ghost-written. But you need to be clear, concise, and unwavering. Do NOT ask questions, or permission for anything. Do NOT engage in small talk. Something along these lines: "I will be in [your town] on November 1 [or whatever date], and will be stopping by to pick up my ring from you at 3 p.m. I expect you to be there. If you won't be home then, let me know a different time that day when you will be home. I promise not to take more than five minutes of your time, and I look forward to putting this matter to rest, for both of us, finally." They key is you dictate the date. No negotiations outside of a few hours' time on that date. If she says she will be out of town or whatever, then tell her you will be there the following weekend or a different specific date close to that one. You need to dictate the terms, not her. She doesn't know that you actually aren't planning on being in town those dates; if she says ok, then that's when you go. Remember, no BS about her not having time or being too busy. No negotiations about giving back just the stone or whatever. If she "can't" make either date, then do as CaliGuy says, tell her you will see her in court. Be sure to save all sent emails and replies from her. Make sure you refer to the ring as "my ring" at all times. And consult a lawyer.
samspade Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 And here's another thing: Before you go to pick it up (God willing), you should rehearse with a friend, preferably a female friend, what you will say and how you will say it. Why? Because, there's a chance this wretched woman you almost married will attempt to manipulate you again, through crying, or sweetness, or sex. It may seem implausible, but you have to prepare for it. You need to practice speaking directly in a low voice exactly what you need to say. No puppy-dog looks. No asking favors or permission. And look yourself in the mirror every morning and thank your lucky stars you didn't sacrifice half your assets for this woman. Your life begins today.
Author eugene3 Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks.. i appeciate the help. I have dated a few girls in the past and never have i ever delt with something like this. For someone that wants to move on "close us out" sure does not show it. You know as well as i do she knew the outcome of her taking the ring... us seeing each other again, or me just letting her keep it..both not good. samspade... can i have you opinion on my situation? Without the convincing me its over because i am aware.
samspade Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 What do you mean...besides that it's over? My opinion on how you got to this point?
Lovegod Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 I know how you feel. I gave a woman 4 years of my life plus a ring. She lost the ring and I promised to replace it. Then she left me, taking the 4 years of our relationship with her. After she left, she promised to give me $1000 to help pay for the debt that she incurred on me. It's now 7 years later. She still has those 4 years and hasn't sent me that $1000 she promised. Do you think I'm chasing her down for it? HELL NO. Lesson learned. Don't waste time and money on a woman who is willing to take advantage of you. And if you're that determined to get your ring back, quit this wimpy email garbage. Go to her door, hammer on the door, and demand the ring back like a man. If you do it any other way, you're just wasting your time.
BCCA Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks.. i appeciate the help. I have dated a few girls in the past and never have i ever delt with something like this. For someone that wants to move on "close us out" sure does not show it. You know as well as i do she knew the outcome of her taking the ring... us seeing each other again, or me just letting her keep it..both not good. samspade... can i have you opinion on my situation? Without the convincing me its over because i am aware. Dude, I honestly think she just wanted the damn ring. I really dont think it had anything to do with you past the fact that you were the one who gave it to her. She's trying to barter with you on giving the stone back and hawking the setting, and SHE thinks shes entitled to half of it lol Here is my opinion on your situation: unfortunately, you ran into one of the worlds many, many selfish people. She really doesnt seem to be concerned with you, your feelings, or treating you even half way decently. Anyone who would keep that ring under the circumstances is a terrible person. Add to it the fact that she is refusing to return it, and practically holding it ransom for a 'cut' of the sale price of the setting, and you're looking at a pretty awful individual. I agree, you need to get that thing back ASAP before she pawns it, or 'loses' it, etc. Any crap about not having time should be completely ignored, thats ridiculous. She has 2 minutes to hand a ring off and be on her way. This BS is a delay tactic, she just wants you to forget about it. Trust me, you dont want anything more to do with this girl past getting that ring back. Her selfishness is dangerous. Please let this be a lesson to you, whether you get that ring back or not. Don't ever do that again!
Author eugene3 Posted October 16, 2008 Author Posted October 16, 2008 What i mean is i never did the NC from the begining with her...now i am not saying i bothered her everyday but there were times i let 2 months tops go by and then i would e-mail her e-mail her. We had major family issues towards the end. 3 weeks before i asked her to marry me we broke up for a week because she thought i betrayed her and cheated on her.... in which i did not then we got back togther and then engaged in which i had planed a month before the break. Anyway as soon as we got engaged her mom had a fit. He mom from that day on would say things to her to leave me and say i am no good and just all out make problems. I acted wrong on her moms behavior and took it out on my ex. It made me unhappy and her as well then we started to lose communication.. i live 5 hours from her and i just did not feel like talking to her. I just felt unhappy with the situation with her family. Things got so bad i her mom did not want me at her house anymore since my ex lived with her it cause more issues. The last few weeks i saw she was putting distance between us and she was not answering her phone and she would call me back and when she would she would not talk to me long and i was the same way. So one day we get into a arguement and she says she is unhappy with us and unhappy with her life and she needs space to evaulate things. She said " we are not completly over but she needs space. I gave her the space. she was freaking out saying she hates her job and were she lives. 2 weeks later she e-mails me its over she loves me but to much problems have happend and it best and that she will always love me. I from that day on pleaded and begged her that things will get better. I assumed why she broke it off was from what she said she love sme but to much has happened and she realized she does not need me in her life anymore. Through out the first 3 months we talked a few times and saw each other a few times but it was not pleasent meetings. She even sent me a book that her friends bought her to help her get over me called " they call it a breakup because its broken" she said the book helped her hurting. Once again that shows me she loves me but she feels she is doing the right thing for her life and thats to end it but she is having a rough time so she needed the book and she told me she is hurting. 4 months later she says she does not know if she loves me, then recently she says she has no feelings for me anymore and does not love me anymore. She said she did not know how to tell me that she did not love me anymore>>>>>> that is what i dont understand... if from the start she did not love me then why was she hurting??? why did she tell me she loves me??? she said the reason she broke it off was to much has happened. i don't understand this samspade!!!!! Is it maybe she felt nothing from me from the start but was confused?? i mean when i saw her 2 months after she broke it off we kissed and she said she loves me????? i am confused. If from the start she said i don't love you i would have moved on then and not have chased her all this time. I really don't think this girl knows what she wants and i dont think she knows if she love sme or not. I think she is comportable now because i am still in her life and have been for 6 months chasing her. logic here is how she gona miss me if i am not gone.??? I have not bothered her in almost a month and i don't ever plane too except ot recover the ring. can i have you view on this please.
samspade Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 My opinion is that this woman is extremely selfish, unhappy with her life, and a little f*cked up in the head. And you should not bother analyzing her beyond that. As for your actions, here is why things got so bad: You operated completely under this woman's terms, you let her dictate everything. You also failed to divorce her words from her actions. CaliGuy said it earlier, a person's actions will ALWAYS spell out for you her intentions. Words are meaningless unless backed up with action. So, it doesn't matter if she told you she loves you, or doesn't love you, and when she told you. What matters is that she avoided you, treated you like crap, allowed her mother to interfere, and blamed you for everything. And you enabled her to do so. When she asked for space, you should have seen what was coming: The end. Instead, you gave her space so she could "evaluate" things. You held out hope that it could be saved. Trust me, the only thing she was evaluating was the possible penis length of other guys in her town. So that time she kissed you and said she loves you? Meaningless. At most she was trying to let you down nicely. What did she do to back it up? String you along. Stomp all over you. Again, you're partly to blame. You allowed it. When a woman WANTS to be with you, you know it. There is no doubt in your mind. So whether she said "i love you" or "i hate you," you should not be chasing. You were supplicating to this girl from the start. Even the language you use ("she let me kiss her," "she said we are not completely over but she needs space") shows that you are letting women control you. Ditto with this ring situation. You could not have done anything to get her back. You did everything in the book to push her away. Women are repulsed by men who won't stand up for themselves, and they test men to weed these types out. Don't hate them for this - they're looking for MEN, the way they were programmed to. You need to work on your self-respect and your happiness. Then you will attract the right kind of woman.
CaliGuy Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 Thank caliguy and samspade. I am going to send her a e-mail 2night. Can you or cali help me write a e-mail that is strong and well worded, and convincing??? please???? my e-mail address is [email protected] This girl does not for one sec take me serious and we all know why so a well written encouraging e-mail is what i want to send her. you seem to be good at wording you sentences and so does caliguy. please help me out guys.... You don't need anyone to write your email for you. CALL her. She probably won't even answer. In a strong, confident, FRIM voice tell her you will be there on Saturday at whatever time you can get there to pick up the ENTIRE ring. Not just the centerstone. The ENTIRE ring. It's NONE OF HER DAMN BUSINESS what you do with the ring once you get it back. That ring represents a marriage proposal. One in which she TURNED DOWN. It's YOUR ring to do whatever the HELL you want to do with it. She has relinqushed any rights over that ring, bro. Go get your ring back, sell it for a profit (if you can) and then don't ever talk to her again. Period.
Lishy Posted October 16, 2008 Posted October 16, 2008 I cant belive that she is telling you that you are allowed to have the stone and you can split the money on the band That is unbelievable and also the way she speaks so passionatly about the ring but treats you so cold She sounds horrible, you are well rid! Get your ring back, dont mail her jut ring her and TELL her or you could send a courier to collect it!! Tell her to have it ready or leave it in an envelope with her parents Screw her, you deserve more!
samspade Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 FYI... Women traditionally refuse offers of marriage by refusing to take the offered engagement ring. In some states of the United States, engagement rings are considered "conditional gifts" under the legal rules of property. This is an exception to the general rule that gifts cannot be revoked once properly given. See, for example, the case of Meyer v. Mitnick, 625 N.W.2d 136 (Michigan, 2001), whose ruling found the following reasoning persuasive: "the so-called 'modern trend' holds that because an engagement ring is an inherently conditional gift, once the engagement has been broken, the ring should be returned to the donor. Thus, the question of who broke the engagement and why, or who was 'at fault,' is irrelevant. This is the no-fault line of cases." One case in New South Wales, Australia ended in the man suing his former fiancée because she threw the ring in the trash after telling her she could keep it despite the marriage proposal failing. The Supreme Court of New South Wales held that despite what the man said, the ring remained a conditional gift (partly because his saying that she could keep it was partly due to his desire to salvage the relationship) and she was ordered to pay him its AUD$15,250 cost.[4] Tradition generally holds that if the betrothal fails because the man himself breaks off the engagement, the woman is not obliged to return the ring. Legally, this condition can be subject to either a modified or a strict fault rule. Under the former, the fiancé can demand the return of the ring unless he breaks the engagement. Under the latter, the fiancé is entitled to the return unless his actions caused the breakup of the relationship, the same as the traditional approach. However, a no-fault rule is being advanced in some jurisdictions, under which the fiancé is always entitled to the return of the ring. The ring only becomes the property of the woman when marriage occurs. An unconditional gift approach is another possibility, wherein the ring is always treated as a gift, to be kept by the fiancée whether or not the relationship progresses to marriage. Recent court rulings have determined that the date in which the ring was offered can determine the condition of the gift. e.g. Valentine's Day and Christmas are nationally recognized as gift giving holidays. A ring offered in the form of a Christmas present will likely remain the personal property of the recipient in the event of a break up.[5] In the United Kingdom, the gift of an engagement ring is presumed to be an absolute gift to the fiancée. This presumption may be rebutted however by proving that the ring was given on condition (express or implied) that it must be returned if the marriage did not take place, for whatever reason. This was decided in the case Jacobs v Davis [1917] 2 KB 532. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement_ring
BCCA Posted October 17, 2008 Posted October 17, 2008 Nice bit of info, samspade. The legality aside, it really shouldnt even come to that. In all honesty, the idea of keeping a ring someone bought me as a sign of their intent to marry me after I have broken the relationship/engagement off, is baffling. I just cant for the life of me see anyone with a concious holding onto the ring. This situation is entirely different. I firmly believe that this girl is being beyond selfish, and only holding onto the ring out of pettiness.
2sure Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 OMG Eugene!! You still haven't got that ring back?? But you promised us you would!
Author eugene3 Posted October 24, 2008 Author Posted October 24, 2008 I have not made a move yet. I am going to call or e-mail her soon to get my ring back .. but i am waiting until i am able to pick it up. She lives almost 5 hours away and aside from her i live a life also. Its been a month since i last heard from her. Like i said in the past i might just wait until the new year because of the holidays on my part. I will get ahold of her soon and when i do the outcome will be posted. Thanks for caring samspade.
BCCA Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 I have not made a move yet. I am going to call or e-mail her soon to get my ring back .. but i am waiting until i am able to pick it up. She lives almost 5 hours away and aside from her i live a life also. Its been a month since i last heard from her. Like i said in the past i might just wait until the new year because of the holidays on my part. I will get ahold of her soon and when i do the outcome will be posted. Thanks for caring samspade. I hope everything works out how you want it to. I'm sorry you have to go through this, but you'll be a stronger person for having experienced it, regardless of how it turns out.
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