Should one partner "change" for another?

[EricaL]

My husband and I are in the "breaking up"/"reconciling" phase of our marriage, but I wanted to pose this question here for discussion.

 

What are your thoughts on changing for your partner and to what degree?

 

My husband and I started dating when I was 17. The woman I am today has different needs, wants, and desires. I have changed. I have grown. Some of my changes are fairly substantial. Not minor changes like, "I now like onions" but things like core personality or behavior traits... or belief. I was Catholic growing up... I'm now Agnostic.

 

I embrace change and growth when it's done by self needs, desires and wants. I needed to find myself. I needed to see who I had become and to find out what I needed to be happy and fulfilled.

 

What I need from my partner is not what my husband has to offer me. I won't go into details here. But he's said he's going to change. He's going to change as much as he can as fast as he can to become the person I need. I appreciate it. I really do... but I have very strong beliefs that someone shouldn't change who they are just to please someone else.

 

He's not assertive. I want someone assertive. He says he'll become assertive.

 

He's a great guy the way he is. He's funny, fun-loving, laid-back, etc. And while these traits don't do it for me anymore, they are still very loveable qualities. He is immature, he knows that and agrees and says he will mature. I can accept that one easily...

 

But it rubs me the wrong way and it's creating this obstacle in my mind. Why should he change the person that he is just to make me happy, even though there's no guarantee that it would. If he is happy with who he is and comfortable.... why should he change? Why is my happiness more important than his?

 

If things are going well or if there is a day we disagree, will he feel resentment for making such major changes to his core personality just to keep me?

 

So, what do you think? How much change is ok? How much change can happen? Does it work? Does it just delay the inevitable?

[PandorasBox]

People should change for themselves. He should change for himself. Once he makes some changes within himself for himself, then possibly other things in the marriage will be easy to change. Even though he says he will, if he wont or hasn't it could be a number of reasons why. Maybe he doesn't know how, or is scared. The word "change" scares alot of people. If not being assertive is something he doesn't know how to do perhaps he wasn't shown growing up? Or maybe his family didn't see things that way? It could be to that maybe he doesn't want to change. ONly you know him better than anyone. I think change is good, it teaches us alot of things.

[quankanne]

change is good when one willingly desires to change, to mature into the person he or she is meant to be. Changing for someone else only provides fodder for fights. So until your husband "gets" it, don't hold your breath. God willing, he'll realize that maturity for the sake of a relationship is VERY much a worthy thing, and not just something to yank him out of his comfort zone.

 

at which point, I think you're probably going to have to resign yourself to certain things/behaviors if you intend to continue with the relationship, otherwise you'll drive yourself nuts!

 

it's not fair, but there's generally one partner who is more mature than the other.

[manugeorge]

I've always thought that the ultimate goal of any relationship/marriage is to be with someone who makes it easier for us to be ourselves. Minor behavioral tweaking is sometimes necessary but if you have to overhaul your whole identity to fit into what someone else wants, it will only spell disaster.

 

Changing to please other people, in a lot of cases eventually leads to resentment on both sides.

[blair08]

"but there is generally one partner who is more mature than the other."

 

So true I agree.

 

"Changing to please other people, in alot of cases eventually leads to resentment on both sides."

 

Yep I agree with this as well. I have seen it happen before. Always change for yourself.

[Moose]

What I need from my partner is not what my husband has to offer me. I won't go into details here. But he's said he's going to change. He's going to change as much as he can as fast as he can to become the person I need. I appreciate it. I really do... but I have very strong beliefs that someone shouldn't change who they are just to please someone else.

Men are, "Fixers"....we fix things.....things that are broke.....lol

 

 

BUT....in all honesty, no man is going to change his behaviour....I don't care if he swears on his Mother's grave.....for example....and no, I don't believe he should.

 

You've made a lifetime commitment to him, at that point and time you've accepted him for who/what he is. Will he be the same until death do you part??....well no.....you've even given us an example of how we all change throughout time....

 

Will he be the partner you so desire and think you need? Yes.....on his own timeline, he will be....

 

Expecting your husband to change to fit your desires is totally unreasonable....should he be aware of what you're lacking in the relationship? Hellsyeah he should, and it would be up to him to do his best, however it shouldn't be a condition for him to do so immediately or you're hittin' the pavement.....

 

I think it's very wrong of him to say, "I'll become more assertive", or "I'll become more mature" just to put you at ease...in fact, it's borderline lying....

 

Lastly, I'd be very careful what you wish for, the changes you desire in him could come back to bite you....think about it....an assertive, mature man sounds like an ass to me....lol

 

Oh....one more thing.....your marriage will never be perfect....there will always be a few things you can't stand in your husband, and if you think about it, there are a few things you do that your husband can't stand about you.....it will always be that way, so you might as well get comfortable with that fact...

[EricaL]

Hmmm, you guys are echoing my thoughts. I know some change happens all the time, minor shifts, acceptances, annoyances, etc. People pick up habits and drop habits. They will go through phases of likes and dislikes...

 

Those I think are healthy.

 

But doing that overhaul... turning core personality traits or characterists 180 degrees around... - just because someone says that's what they want... that doesn't sound "right" to me.

[quankanne]

But doing that overhaul... turning core personality traits or characterists 180 degrees around... - just because someone says that's what they want... that doesn't sound "right" to me.

 

agreed. And I think it's a total bullshxt response to keep from being "in trouble" with someone! The only way he's is going to become the man he's promising to become is if he gets off his dupa and actually DOES something to achieve growth. Otherwise, it's all just hot air to justify his present behavior and to "buy a little more time."

 

your best bet is to not have ANY expectations of him so that you're not disappointed. Men and women can be selfish creatures, and rarely are those in relationships at the same "speed" in that relationship!

 

and maybe tell him that unless he wants to indict himself, to please refrain from making promises that you both know he doesn't intend to keep (had to do this with my mister), because eventually, all they're going to do is annoy you even more than ou already are ...

[EricaL]

Men are, "Fixers"....we fix things.....things that are broke.....lol

 

Hehehe, you might be a fixer. He is not. Alas, that is one of the things I wish he was. I wish he noticed... attempted...

 

Will he be the partner you so desire and think you need? Yes.....on his own timeline, he will be....

 

Possibly or possibly not. I've identified what I needed and wanted in life. I realized that not having that is making me unhappy. So, should I be unhappy and settle and just wait, after I've already been waiting? How long should one be miserable? Because I changed I should now suffer for it?

 

Expecting your husband to change to fit your desires is totally unreasonable....

 

I don't expect him to change. I didn't ask him to change. I don't want him to change. He's a great person as he is and if he is happy with himself, then I am at peace. If he wants to change because he wants to become a different person. Excellent. I hope he and I can relink and reconnect.

 

an assertive, mature man sounds like an ass to me....lol

 

I've met and socialized with them. I love it. Assertive and mature men excite me.

 

Thank you for the countering points and your thoughts and advice. It's appreciated and valued!

[carhill]

But doing that overhaul... turning core personality traits or characterists 180 degrees around... - just because someone says that's what they want... that doesn't sound "right" to me.

 

Psychologists (and our MC) would agree with you. Acceptance of core personality traits and perspectives; voluntary change of behaviors as situationally applicable. An LS'er gave me a great example of that, suggesting that I, instead of saying to my wife "Please don't ignore me", say "I feel ignored", when communicating that I don't feel she is listening to me or otherwise paying attention to my input. Same perspective, different communication style/behavior. I thought that was a great example of what our MC talks about. I don't feel I've had to "change", but merely altered my verbiage to a style which is more acceptable to my wife.

[Kasan]

It's seems ironic to me that he has accepted your changes and growth without asking you to change back into what you were.

 

He might be able to pull off his core changes for awhile, but eventually he will resent having had to remake himself to please you and keep the marriage viable.

 

I am having difficulty believing that your husband hasn't changed a bit since he was 17....

 

I also wonder what changes he would like to see you make..........

 

Good luck!

[blair08]

"I've met and socialized with them. I love it. Assertive and mature men excite me."

 

 

Then you're clearly with the wrong man. I highly doubt he will become what you want after time, he doesn't sound as if he was what you wanted to begin with.

[Enema]

I don't think people can or should change.

 

This type of situation is why I don't think getting married young, or marrying one of the first few people you're with is a good idea. Takes a while to settle into who you really are and that's when you should find a mate.

 

I don't know if such huge shifts in personality occur throughout our lives as I'm only 27. If they do, then hey... might have to rethink whether marriage is a good idea at all.

[EricaL]

your best bet is to not have ANY expectations of him so that you're not disappointed. Men and women can be selfish creatures, and rarely are those in relationships at the same "speed" in that relationship!

 

Hehehe, that's kind of right where I am. I know he can sense it though. I think he thinks I'm not willing to try. I totally am. I just can't make myself get excited and "buy in"

 

Since we've talked he mowed the lawn, helped the children with their homework... crap, he cleaned out the refrigerator. You could have knocked me over. In 14 years I've never seen that man do anything with a refrigerator but take food out of it or put food into it.

 

But, and what I tried to explain to him. I am not looking for him to have "new habits". It's fantastic and it's major brownie points in his favor. But for 14 years he should have been seeing these things and helping me with them instead of sitting on the couch playing video games. It's attitude, behavior, drive... things that go beyond habits.

 

I know he can develop new habits. I don't know that he can change his natural instinct and personality of a laid-back, lazy, reactive guy, into a proactive, assertive guy. I know there can be a happy medium and I'm with him and we are in counseling together to try.

 

Anyway, thank you for sharing, it's good and interesting to see how people view things like this. Whether they are in a solid relationship, an old relationship, a new one, or a broken one... change does happen.

[JackJack]

Maybe you settled for him in hopes he would change.

 

You said yourself he wasn't assertive and that you liked assertive men, that is something you should have been able to tell off the bat. Of course love is blind and we have a tendency to overlook important things that matter to us, that could nmake a huge difference later on.

[EricaL]

It's seems ironic to me that he has accepted your changes and growth without asking you to change back into what you were.

 

He might be able to pull off his core changes for awhile, but eventually he will resent having had to remake himself to please you and keep the marriage viable.

 

I am having difficulty believing that your husband hasn't changed a bit since he was 17....

 

I also wonder what changes he would like to see you make..........

 

Good luck!

 

Interesting counter points and again, I realize how easy it is to lose objectivity. You are right. He hasn't asked me to change back, but I think he sees that would not be a very good suggestion. I was unhappy how I was, the growth I went through was, what I feel, to be a very natural progression of my wisdom, experiences, etc. I am very, very happy with who I am.

 

And, he has made minor changes, he has grown and matured since he was 20 years old. I'm not saying he hasn't. He's just not kept up with me.

 

The tip from Carhill is a good one about the way we communicate. Our MC is seeing us together to view and assess how we communicate on Wednesday

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Tell me if I've got this right: you married young, then matured and changed, and then told your husband that he isn't what you want anymore. Then he said he'd become the man you want, to keep the marriage. But you don't want him to, because it wouldn't be 'authentic'.

 

Is that it, in a nutshell?

 

You sound superficial and condescending to me. You married a person, not a list of character traits. Think about that.

[manugeorge]

The irony of it all is that he wants to become more assertive yet he is doing it just to please you?

 

Umm..isn't that just the opposite of being assertive? aka, "whatever you say ma'am"

 

You've made a lifetime commitment to him, at that point and time you've accepted him for who/what he is. Will he be the same until death do you part??....well no.....you've even given us an example of how we all change throughout time....

 

Moose, I think this is an excellent point. You promised to accept him as he is/was when you married him but now it seems you want something different.

 

How do you reconcile that with the vows you made, how does anyone reconcile that?

[Ruby Slippers]

He's not assertive. I want someone assertive. He says he'll become assertive.

I would bet money on the fact that this will not change, no matter how hard he tries. This is deeply rooted in so many factors -- natural disposition toward extroversion or introversion, level of security shaped by years of experience, unbringing, role models, past hurts and successes, and so on. He might be able to fake it convincingly for a while, but he won't change who he is at the core. The whole concept defies itself -- you would never have to motivate someone to be assertive. Assertiveness comes from self motivation.

 

You read this all the time, but I think I have finally learned that you cannot and will not change anyone. You can accept him the way he is, or struggle against it interminably.

[Kasan]

How do you reconcile that with the vows you made, how does anyone reconcile that?

 

Most of us understand that growth does take place-- maybe not at the same time or pace of your partner.

 

There is usually enough love and connection that can help you through the tough times.

 

For some of us, it's a matter of "for better or worse."

 

I don't know..........once the contempt sets in, it's very difficult to recover.

[EricaL]

Tell me if I've got this right: you married young, then matured and changed, and then told your husband that he isn't what you want anymore. Then he said he'd become the man you want, to keep the marriage. But you don't want him to, because it wouldn't be 'authentic'.

 

Is that it, in a nutshell?

 

You sound superficial and condescending to me. You married a person, not a list of character traits. Think about that.

 

We did marry young. I matured and changed. I tried to accept what I had and balance that with my changes. I felt terrible that things had shifted inside of me and that I was losing feelings I had for him because I didn't feel connected any longer. I told him that I had discovered needs and wants and that they were different from what I had early on. For the last year and a half, I've been working to find a balance. To balance what we had versus where I am at now.

 

Nine months ago I let him know I was unhappy. I started talking and then I stopped. I should have continued and pressed harder. I admit to being weak and not. I do not ask people to change and I don't want people to change unless they do it for themselves. That is the way I have been for my entire life.

 

He is willing to try and change and I am willing to remain with him and focus on him and what we had and have while he tries. BUT, I want him to do it because he wants to better himself and him bettering himself and him discovering what he wants and needs will align with mine. I don't know if it will happen, but I'm willing to work to let it be so. My original intent of this thread was to discuss how people change and how much we think they should.

 

I did not go into the details of the things that I have observed and have communicated to him as things that contributed to my loss of feelings for him. I'm a fairly non-emotional person, so I apologize if I'm not coming across the way you think I should be. I am not superficial nor am I condescending. I do value and appreciate the different thoughts and opinions. I can see the different sides. I'm actively listening.

 

If you want to make it personal, then you should probably know the details of where I'm coming from before you turn to making it personal.

 

He has never paid a bill in 14 years. He has never made a medical/dental any other appointment. He comes home, puts his work bag down, climbs on the couch and plays computer games all evening. If I ask for help with dinner he tells me not to get used to it. He doesn't notice that there are dying bushes in the yard that need some watering and think to do it himself. I must tell him to do it. He doesn't help me get the children ready for school. He doesn't debate anything with me. I feed him, clothe him, entertain him, and then have to take care of all the day-to-day activities by myself. I'm sorry. But I'm tired of doing that. I've told him all these things. I've shared with him the things, the actions, the things I'm missing.

 

I am sorry that that doesn't appeal to me any longer. I've apologized to him for it. Just because you marry someone doesn't mean that you must be unhappy just to uphold some doctrine by society that you must remain with one person your whole life...

 

Here's the thing with me. I'm not religious. I don't believe in soul mates. I don't believe in fairy tales. I don't believe there is only one person for you. I don't even believe that humans are monogomous creatures by nature... but that we are that way because of society.

 

That's my opinion. I'm pretty comfortable with it. But it also guides and impacts my own life. It's very hard to judge people if you don't know them.

 

Share with me your experiences, share with me your thoughts, give me points you agree with, share the points you disagree with, but do not insult me, because you do not know me or my situation.

[carhill]

Our MC would say your perspectives are so diverse as to border on incompatible. Perhaps this is evolution or perhaps it was as such always and your growth process brought the disparity to the forefront for you.

 

Each of you can only "bend" so much to meet the other partner's perspective before you "break" and lose your healthy sense of self, thereby sacrificing yourself at the altar of the relationship. Not a pleasant thought considering the mortality we all face.

 

IME, a passive person likely will not change. They won't "care" more. They're perfectly comfortable in their world, even as frustrating as that is to you. The world could come down around them and they'd just nod their head and go back to whatever amuses them at the time.

 

MC will help you, for you. As to whether it helps your M, I don't know. I would suggest a psychologist rather than lay therapist. Get a referral if you can. Hope you find some peace

[manugeorge]

He has never paid a bill in 14 years. He has never made a medical/dental any other appointment. He comes home, puts his work bag down, climbs on the couch and plays computer games all evening. If I ask for help with dinner he tells me not to get used to it. He doesn't notice that there are dying bushes in the yard that need some watering and think to do it himself. I must tell him to do it. He doesn't help me get the children ready for school. He doesn't debate anything with me. I feed him, clothe him, entertain him, and then have to take care of all the day-to-day activities by myself. I'm sorry. But I'm tired of doing that. I've told him all these things. I've shared with him the things, the actions, the things I'm missing.

 

 

Wow! and how old is he now?

[quankanne]

I know he can develop new habits. I don't know that he can change his natural instinct and personality of a laid-back, lazy, reactive guy, into a proactive, assertive guy. I know there can be a happy medium and I'm with him and we are in counseling together to try.

 

maybe the happy medium *is* to begin trusting that his new habits will bring about change, esp. if those habits help him reach a newer level of maturity and responsibility?

 

I don't believe in fairy tales. :laugh: and this is prolly the primary reason you don't believe that your husband will mature into a more responsible adult.

 

look, erica, I think marriages go through what you've experiencing to varying degrees because we believed the campaign promises. I know that my husband has disappointed me with certain inaction time and again. And I know how frustrating it is to let a majority of the responsibility fall on your shoulders. However frustrating, there comes a time when you realize that you have certain strengths – as does he – that you bring to the relationship and those help y'all rub out the weaknesses. And as long as you focus on the positive, and willingly give your strengths without grudging about his weaknesses, you've got a fair shot at making this work.

 

as for him being assertive, that part probably won't change, but is there any way to keep it from being such a negative factor in the marriage? we can always dream of James Bond – or Rhett Butler – to save the day when we need a mental boost! :laugh:

 

hang in there sister, an answer is out there, ya just need to give yourself time to discover it.

[EricaL]

Hehehe, you guys have made me chuckle. Thanks. It's very easy to get lost in your thoughts. I'll be the first to admit I've got doubts. But that doesn't mean I also don't have hope. I know I'm riding some resentment right now. I know I've got to deal with it and let it go so that I can look at him with fresh eyes. And realize that there is no perfect, not that I'd want it anyway

 

I can always find something to complain about. But it's good to get this because I was focusing on him changing and probably putting more weight on that aspect than I should be right now.

 

You helped "bring me down" to reality a little. So I thank you for it... and we shall see what happens over the coming months as we try and figure out the best path in this mess we are in