dreamy1945 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I know that the betrayer will lie but to the extent of him blaming the OW for everything..ie.....she called me and can't give up. If I wanted to be with her I would cause she would take me back in a heartbeat. Why is the OW treated like this? What kind of person could say ugly things about someone they supposely cared about?
IfWishesWereHorses Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 The same kind of person who would have an A on the person whom he/she married. Unfortunately, in most cases, the WS/MM, cares only about theirself.
jj33 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 The same kind of person who would have an A on the person whom he/she married. Unfortunately, in most cases, the WS/MM, cares only about theirself. That pretty much sums it up. Someone who only cares about saving their own hide and keeping the status quo. Harm done to anyone else is collateral damage. Sorry you are going through this.
Lucky_One Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I think that there are a few affairs that do "work out". But I think most of them contain a MP (or MPs) who is bored and wants something fun and easy and exciting and kinky. Love words turn women on, and turned on women turn men on. But at the end of the day, they want to keep their marriage, their spouse, their intact home. It was all about them and the penis.
herenow Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Unless you raped him, it's physically impossible for it to be all your fault. IMO MM who want to save their marriage will take responsibility for their own actions. Sounds like this guy is only remorseful because he got caught, not because of what he did. I would assume that he will continue to cheat until he is able to admit and accept that he is to blame for his own actions. As you are to blame for yours.
White Flower Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 Unless you raped him, it's physically impossible for it to be all your fault. IMO MM who want to save their marriage will take responsibility for their own actions. Sounds like this guy is only remorseful because he got caught, not because of what he did. I would assume that he will continue to cheat until he is able to admit and accept that he is to blame for his own actions. As you are to blame for yours. Excellent point. My exMM would say something about an ex or his W and I would remind him to be nice because it could be me he was talking about. It always got him thinking.
Lookingforward Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 It seems to me that it is the marriages where the WS tries to rewrite the truth of the affair that attempts at true reconciliation and rebuilding are doomed to eventual failure. If the WS can't face the truth of their thoughts and actions what hope is there they will bring all their cards to the table to figure out why they did what they did and ensure whatever caused it won't happen again?
Adunaphel Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 I can see why a WS might speak badly of the OW, and why a betrayed W might need to hear it - she'd be reassured that her partner no longer sees greener grass on the other side, and the OW is no longer a threat (unless, of course, he is lying again). But blaming the whole affair on the OW?? It makes no sense. Even if the OW was the pursuer, and did everything she could to make him cheat... he'd still be a very weak person, and a liar.
Lizzie60 Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 I know that the betrayer will lie but to the extent of him blaming the OW for everything..ie.....she called me and can't give up. If I wanted to be with her I would cause she would take me back in a heartbeat. Why is the OW treated like this? What kind of person could say ugly things about someone they supposely cared about? If he blames the whole A on the OW .. that makes him a very immature jerk. (young kids blame others for their mischief.. he made me do it.. ).. and the W who believes all that crap makes her very gullible and naive..
american-woman Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 I know that the betrayer will lie but to the extent of him blaming the OW for everything..ie.....she called me and can't give up. If I wanted to be with her I would cause she would take me back in a heartbeat. Why is the OW treated like this? What kind of person could say ugly things about someone they supposely cared about? they (WS)are like an alein from another planet...they will lie, invent, re write history anything to cover hide, or excuse their wrong doings.
marlena Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 Yes, it is very common. When the shyt hits the fan, they'll say anything to save their sorry arses.
GreenEyedLady Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 I know that the betrayer will lie but to the extent of him blaming the OW for everything..ie.....she called me and can't give up. If I wanted to be with her I would cause she would take me back in a heartbeat. Why is the OW treated like this? What kind of person could say ugly things about someone they supposely cared about? Go read at SI...It's very common. The MP likes to rewrite Affair History and tells the BS everything they think the BS wants to hear. That way they can keep their life the way they want it and cross their fingers that the OP will be there when they get the BS to calm down and not check up on them so much. The underlying reason is that the MP is extremely selfish. And doesn't think about whether or not they're hurting anyone else. Just as the BS feels entitled in the M, the WS feels entitled to the A.
OWoman Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 I think that there are a few affairs that do "work out". I think those are more likely to be the ones where the MM "fesses up" and tells the BW about the A, rather than awaiting discovery. I suspect that where the A is discovered, and the MM leaves as a result, he's either leaving because he's being kicked out (and it's not his choice to go) or he's being forced into making the choice before he was really ready to do so - so the chances of it working out would be less, IMO.
jj33 Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 I think that there are a few affairs that do "work out". But I think most of them contain a MP (or MPs) who is bored and wants something fun and easy and exciting and kinky. Love words turn women on, and turned on women turn men on. But at the end of the day, they want to keep their marriage, their spouse, their intact home. It was all about them and the penis. Lucky One. I must have misunderstood this. Did you really mean to say that As that work out i.e, the MM leaves to be with the OW only work out because they want something fun and easy and exciting and kinky? So they leave for kinky sex? That cant be what you meant can it?
serial muse Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Lucky One. I must have misunderstood this. Did you really mean to say that As that work out i.e, the MM leaves to be with the OW only work out because they want something fun and easy and exciting and kinky? So they leave for kinky sex? That cant be what you meant can it? I think the idea was that the other affairs (the ones that didn't work out) are about fun and kink. The MP likes to rewrite Affair History and tells the BS everything they think the BS wants to hear. Funny, I was just thinking this this morning about how the MP likes to rewrite history, but from the perspective of the bewildered BS. What prompted it was that I got a random email from the exH (to which I didn't bother to respond, yawn) but it reminded me again how, within the space of a mere 6 months, he had completely rewritten our life together into a harrowing tale of my awfulness and his narrow escape. And when I had the temerity to bust him on it, he was actually angry at me for making his life more difficult. That's how far the delusion went. I'm well out of it now, and after lots of therapy to deal with the self-esteem issues and so forth, have largely moved on. Sometimes I forget all about it. But now and then I find that the thought still annoys me that as far as he's concerned, his affair was basically my fault. It's the lingering effects of gaslighting, I suppose. You know, I don't think the MP really understands how deeply and lastingly such gaslighting can wound. So yes, of course the MP likes to rewrite Affair History. But, equally of course, s/he lies to everyone. Apparently the OW in my little story thought I was the wicked witch of the west, not to mention frigid and controlling. Until she met me, of course. But it's what she wanted to hear, it's what he wanted to believe because he wouldn't feel so guilty, and so he said it, repeatedly. And so it almost always goes. Ah, well. Sometimes the hurt and anger still pop up, and that's just the way it is. I suppose there are days when I think a genuine, unqualified, unsolicited apology from him for acting like a douche would wipe it all away and I could forget the whole sorry incident for good. And other days I think that perhaps reading heartfelt, thoughtful expressions of self-awareness on these boards from people I don't even know would help, since I know I'll never see such a thing from him. It would be reassuring to think that a majority of people in the world can admit when they made a mistake, without blaming everyone else around them or qualifying it as "justifiable" somehow. Wouldn't it? It'd be nice to know that people take the MP's words with a grain of salt, always. Always. No matter to whom they're spoken. Sorry for the threadjack.
NoIDidn't Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 While I agree with most of what everyone else has already posted, I have a different answer now. One that some OW may not like or agree with, but its MY OPINION - respectfully. The MM that does this, does it because it worked so well when he said much the same about his W to the OW. Not all OW are mature enough to take what the MM says with a grain of salt. Not all Ws are mature enough to not want someone else to blame. And there are MM out there that take advantage of the weaknesses of both to their own benefit. A MM that didn't get a positive reaction from bashing his W to the OW, is not likely to blame the OW for the A.
Adunaphel Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 The MM that does this, does it because it worked so well when he said much the same about his W to the OW. Not all OW are mature enough to take what the MM says with a grain of salt. Not all Ws are mature enough to not want someone else to blame. And there are MM out there that take advantage of the weaknesses of both to their own benefit. A MM that didn't get a positive reaction from bashing his W to the OW, is not likely to blame the OW for the A. This makes perfect sense... it's truly something to think about.
GreenEyedLady Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Funny, I was just thinking this this morning about how the MP likes to rewrite history, but from the perspective of the bewildered BS. I know. The MP rewrites Marital History to the OP and the Affair History to the BS. I know it doesn't always happen, but it seems to be a pattern. It seems as if the MP has to justify what they're doing or have done. What I'd like to know is if the MP realizes that they're lying or really think the reality is what they want it to be.
LakesideDream Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Personal Responsibility has reached the status of "historical behavior". Taking personal responsibility is no longer something being done on a regular basis. "I dint do nuffin" is the mantra of the modern world. People today will look you right in the face and make endless excuses for why they didn't keep their word, meet their responsibility, or even why they failed to arrive at an appointment on time. I've actually been told "I was late because there was a call I had to take". Since when? Cell phones, texting, are a reason for not showing up on time? The obvious extention of the lack of responsibility in our everyday lives is obvious. The WS doesen't believe that they are responsible for their actions. It's aways someone else that made them misbehave. Generations ago people thought it was hilarious when comedian Flip Wilson would say "The Devil Made Me Do It"It isn't so funny anymore.
winter Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 What I'd like to know is if the MP realizes that they're lying How could someone not know the truth about her (or his) own feelings? Sh*t, that's messed up! I think they may be choosing to lie because they're too cowardly to own up to the truth (possibly to themselves as well as to others). What they're afraid of may differ from person to person, but there is often fear and cowardice behind dishonesty. Liars are usually afraid of something! A MP who is in a monogamous marriage who chooses to cheat, especially if it goes on for months and even years, is seriously lacking in the character department. They must have very, very weak wills! Where's their integrity?
NoIDidn't Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 How could someone not know the truth about her (or his) own feelings? Sh*t, that's messed up! I think they may be choosing to lie because they're too cowardly to own up to the truth (possibly to themselves as well as to others). What they're afraid of may differ from person to person, but there is often fear and cowardice behind dishonesty. Liars are usually afraid of something! A MP who is in a monogamous marriage who chooses to cheat, especially if it goes on for months and even years, is seriously lacking in the character department. They must have very, very weak wills! Where's their integrity? You'd be surprised at the number of people that lie without knowing it. Their first lie was the one that they told to themselves to justify their actions. But, I think you are right that they are too cowardly to own up to the truth. Not possibly, but definitely to themselves. I disagree that they have weak wills, though. They have strong wills to cheat, especially for months. They just have very impulsive natures and poor self-restraint.
White Flower Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 While I agree with most of what everyone else has already posted, I have a different answer now. One that some OW may not like or agree with, but its MY OPINION - respectfully. The MM that does this, does it because it worked so well when he said much the same about his W to the OW. Not all OW are mature enough to take what the MM says with a grain of salt. Not all Ws are mature enough to not want someone else to blame. And there are MM out there that take advantage of the weaknesses of both to their own benefit. A MM that didn't get a positive reaction from bashing his W to the OW, is not likely to blame the OW for the A. Very interesting point NID. My exMM rarely said a bad word about his W and tended toward pointing out what was good about me instead of what was bad about her. Perhaps he had the maturity to figure out that it could all come back to him one day so he'd better not say trashy things, I don't know. But I definitely believe he would lie to the bitter end to make her believe it never turned sexual or that he was the one that did the chasing, etc.
porter218 Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I know that the betrayer will lie but to the extent of him blaming the OW for everything..ie.....she called me and can't give up. If I wanted to be with her I would cause she would take me back in a heartbeat. Why is the OW treated like this? What kind of person could say ugly things about someone they supposely cared about? I heard my H say stuff like this(somewhat). It is because the nature of an A is deceit, so it doesn't stop when the A stops. MM who engage in As are selfish bastards who don't care about anyone but themselves. Unfortunately a lot of them are charismatic liars enough to make their OW believe in them. The lesson here is if someone is capable of breaking the vows that they took then they are capable of anything.
OWoman Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Very interesting point NID. My exMM rarely said a bad word about his W and tended toward pointing out what was good about me instead of what was bad about her. Perhaps he had the maturity to figure out that it could all come back to him one day so he'd better not say trashy things, I don't know. Mine has yet to say a bad thing about his BW - despite everything! He's such a noble soul - I think he'd see only the good in Adolf Hitler or Jack the Ripper too.
Owl Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Owoman...does it scare you that he's like this? He is either deluding himself not to see those points about his stbx (or Hitler), or he's not accepting reality in some fashion. These could be some red flags for later down the road.
Recommended Posts