frannie Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 So, all this happened because my counselor suggested that I meet the OW, and I think the result is that it took the excitement out of meeting her and popped my bubble. I meet my counselor again next week, and I'm going to ask her if this was by design, or if she was taking a chance. Robert, I don't think there's any way to ever know whether your counsellor could 'see' what was going on and knew what would happen in your situation. I think anything like this has to be a calculated risk, and it could have turned out very differently imho; I think your counsellor is either an all-knowing genius (unlikely), or playing on dangerous ground. I think the key factor here was your wife's reaction and attitude. She wasn't scared of the OW, and told you to go right ahead and do it if you thought you wanted her more than you wanted your marriage. That is one intelligent, brave woman, and it's no surprise to me that everything else paled into insignificance beside her. I'm glad it's worked out so well for you (hopefully!) Robert. But I wouldn't lay the credit for it at your counsellor's door. I'd also say you have a lot of making up to your W to do after this escapade.
torranceshipman Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 I'd make one hell of an effort with your W, if I were you! You don't even know what a great woman you have there (and don't say you do!-you don't!). You sound like you're in a teenage phase and she sounds like a sensible, mature woman who is so calm and rational in a crisis. BUT.....it almost sounds like she's sitting back and assimilating all the information, and watching how you act over the course of this situation, before she reaches her own internal decision on things. You might just be seeing the face she wants you to see, if you get me.The reason I say make an effort is because her inner resenment may get to the point where she realises you might not be the best match in the world for her after all...plus she clearly surprised you with her inner confidence which you didnt seem to be 100% knowledgeable about before-people with real inner confidence tend to have the type of self esteem that make them move away from people who are bad for them. I think its nice that you tried to be honest though-that is really good-everyone makes mistakes but I think often people dont own up, and you did which is cool. But there will probably be consequences. Also, as youve seen the honest road was the best, I'd tell your W about the other convo's you've been havin with the OW. I dont think 'outing' the A was what killed it - instead, I'm sure the OW lost interest as she had a married guy with a wife and a counsellor in tow who was laying the motherlode of all baggage on her after some online flirting, before you'd even met!!! No wonder she lost interest! Not being mean but you were hardly her prince charming, given the situation! Godd luck though!
jj33 Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 So Robert what are you going to do now? How did you end up chatting with other women on the internet in the first place? It doesnt "just happen" unless you are looking for new friends... And what are you going to do to ensure it doesnt happen again? Lots of people sound wonderful on emails (just ask anyone who has been through the internet dating cycle). If you keep making friends on line there is a chance you will find youself hooked again. Then what? Have you thought about what it is you think is missing in your marriage that you got from OW? And how you are going to get those needs filled with your W?
imagine Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 It's your life and you're gonna do what you're gonna do - BUT - You need to really sit and think about what it is you're about to do IF you choose to go meet the OW. You made a committment to your wife. You said vows. You chose HER to be your wife, through thick and thin. Right now this is a choice. You're choosing to keep the fantasy. That more or less also says you're choosing to NOT pick your wife, as of now. I hope this makes sense to you. I agree with most everything except being your life. By the sounds of things, you have had your toe dangling in the waters but never actually dived into your marriage. Even if you do reject the OW, what impact does it have on your promise to love and keep your wife forsaking all others? So far, you lied. And as for the idea of us owning our own lives... I have yet to see someone produce a receipt...
KismetGirl Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 I've only been reading this forum since August, so not much experience here, but I HAVE learned a lot by reading the posts; in particular that my situation is not that uncommon. My original post is here if you want to read it, http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t160546/, but it's kind of long, so I'll quickly summarize: married 26 years, two older teenage kids, one's off to college, the other's about tomy wife and I didn't make marriage a priority, we grew apart, big-timeI met a woman online in a "it just happened" situation, have never met her in persontold my wife about the online emotional affairwe've been in counseling and trying to deal with things for 4 monthsMy problem is that I can't disconnect from the OW. I've tried NC and the longer that goes on, the more I miss her and can't stop thinking about her. Part of me knows that NC is the best way to move forward in my marriage, but another part of me just won't let the OW go. The OW doesn't want me to leave my marriage for her because she'd feel guilty about breaking up a family. I'd feel guilty too. So far, this is nothing new, but the next part is something I haven't seen yet on this forum, and I'd like to hear what people think about this. I was in counseling yesterday, and I told my counselor about my continuing thoughts of the OW. She said that since I've never met the OW in person, I'm holding onto a fantasy. The feelings are real, but there's no real relationship there; it's just a fantasy. I agree with this. She then said that fantasies can be very difficult to get rid of. Keeping a fantasy alive feels good, and I can perpetuate the fantasy all of my life if I want to. She said she wasn't judging me for not being able to eliminate the fantasy; she was only pointing out that, for me, this particular fantasy is proving extremely difficult. Here's the kicker. She advised me to meet the OW. I was shocked to hear this, and I repeatedly questioned her about that advice. She said that I'm in a stalemate situation right now. I'm holding on to two things that are incompatible, my wife and the OW, and I can't decide which one to let go. She said that as long as this fantasy remains a fantasy, I'll probably never be able to decide. She said that in cases like this, meeting the OW will force things to happen. One of two things will happen: either I'll find out there's no chemistry between us and the fantasy really IS a fantasy, or I'll find out that there is a real connection between us. In the first case, I'll be able to end the fantasy and move on. In the second case, I'll have to make a choice. The choice is really the same choice I'm faced with now, but at least I'll know what I'm dealing with, something more concrete than a fantasy. I went home wondering how I was going to tell this to my wife. I mean, think about it, she asks me how my appointment went and I say, "Oh, fine darling, my counselor wants me to meet the OW." Well, we eventually did talk about the appointment and I told her what the advice was. And I was shocked again, even more, when my wife said ok. She wasn't thrilled about the idea, but she said that if it would get me out of this fantasy, then go ahead. (I'm still shaking my head in disbelief, I totally didn't expect this. I expected her to be angry, hurt, upset, anything but agreeable.) My wife recalled a phrase, "if you love something, let it go; if it comes back, it's yours, if it doesn't, it never was." She's tired of me sitting on the fence wondering what to do. She either wants me committed to her, or she wants me to leave. She's pretty amazing, and I respect her a lot for putting up with me. I'm still in disbelief over all of this. Me, meeting the OW? How can this be possible? And I'm not even sure if she'd want to meet me. She's out of the country right now, and I won't have a chance to ask her for a while. Anyways, I don't know what to think about this. If I met the OW and found no chemistry, that would almost be a relief. But what if there is chemistry? Then what? Both my wife and the counselor think a meeting will turn to disappointment and the fantasy will end, and I think that's why they're suggesting a meeting. But what if they're wrong? Has anyone been in a situation like this? I've read enough posts to know that the standard piece of advice is to forget about the OW and work on my marriage. I'm not really asking about that. I'm wondering about the plusses and minuses of meeting the OW, in light of my counselor's advice and my wife's ok, as a way to end the fantasy and force me out of indecision. Thanks. OK, normally I might agree, and your counselor's reasoning is valid to an extent BUT I do not think she or you have thought this out to fullness with regards to reality and not just a theory. Meeting someone for the first time, especially when youve been speaking online, is exciting. It is newness. You will both be on your best behaviour. As I heard a comic once say, and truer words never rang, was that "when you go on a first date, you are NOT meeting that person. You are meeting their representative". When you meet this woman, even if she has faults, I doubt she's going to display all of them to you on a first "date" and neither will you. So of COURSE you're going to want to see her again. There is the unlikely scenario that she's some total nutjob or completely lied about her physical appearance, but barring both those, chances are you will both like each other in person as much as you like each other in online world, and then you will be more confused than you are now. If you want to leave you wife, this OW (or ANY other woman for that matter) should have no bearing on the matter. You don't leave a marriage because you like someone else. You leave a marriage because the marriage and your spouse do not and will not make you happy anymore. That is the risk you take, but that's why you leave a marriage. You can't base a future relationship with someone based on the "honeymoon" phase of things, which is why meeting this OW won't work just once. As someone else said earlier, youd need to meet someone many times and date them to really see what they are like. Hell, that's why people get married and fail at marriages half the time! Because they rushed into it, while they were still in that love-dovey, my-boyfriend-can-do-no-wrong mentality, which usually comes crashing down. Everyone has faults, but the right spouse has a combination of faults and positives that you love all together no matter what. If you meet this OW, I predict it will do no more than confuse you more. You need to decide if your wife is someone you want to be with. Pretend you had never met the OW. Pretend you have no idea if you'll be happier with someone else, because it doesn't matter, it is irrelevant. What you need to decide is if staying with your WIFE makes you truly happy. If it does, then w ork on your marriage and stop focusing on a fantasy because you are using it as a distraction from having to make a decision. If you want to meet with this OW, I guarantee that your indecision will grow worse, because chances are you WILL like her, and then you',ll end up like my MM, having an affair four four years, still unable to decide to end anything. Just my opinion....
Author RobertLS Posted October 25, 2008 Author Posted October 25, 2008 From some of the recent posts to this thread, it looks like a few folks read my initial post and then simply responded to that, thinking that I'm still wondering whether or not I should meet the OW. That's not a decision I'm wondering about anymore. My previous post explains that we will NOT meet. Does your wife know about your contact with OW this week? Does she know that you've IM'ed her and exchanged emails and such, beyond the "closure" discussion you had with OW two weeks ago? Yes and no. I saved the IM conversation on my phone and told her about it as soon as I got home. She wasn't even interested in it, but she was glad I told her. I'm thinking of deleting the IM app from my phone to show her that I AM trying to disconnect. I didn't tell her about the emails though. I've shown her emails before and it's always a double-edge sword. She's glad that I tell her, but she's disappointed that the communication is still going on. Thanks, Owl, for checking up on me. I think I WILL tell her about the email. I'm sure you will berate me for not telling her right away. I've been trying to understand myself, why I have a hard time cutting the cord to the OW. She said in an ideal world, she'd like to remain friends, but that's obviously not what my wife wants. I think there's a stereotype for OW that includes trying to break up a marriage. This OW is not like that. In fact, both my wife and I agree that in spite of the pain we've been through, there was a reason for this happening. My wife has made positive changes to herself, I am learning how to communicate better with her, and even though we can't say things are better now than before, I can see that they could be. We both agree, that in a strange way, my meeting the OW could eventually lead to a better marriage than would've been possible before. We've heard other stories like that. If the OW is the cause of a better marriage for us, then in some ways, I'm grateful to her. Telling her I don't ever want to hear from her again sounds mean. I know, I know, I know, -- it's mean to my wife to keep lines of communication open with the OW and my wife should have priority. I know all that, but I still have a hard time with it. I share all this with my wife though, these conflicting feelings, and she is trying to understand and help me figure out my feelings. We both agree that the ultimate reason for me completely disconnecting with the OW has to come from within me. If I try to do it for someone else but still have a desire to stay in touch with her, I'm bound to fail sooner or later. Robert, I don't think there's any way to ever know whether your counsellor could 'see' what was going on and knew what would happen in your situation. I think anything like this has to be a calculated risk, and it could have turned out very differently imho; I think your counsellor is either an all-knowing genius (unlikely), or playing on dangerous ground. I think the key factor here was your wife's reaction and attitude. She wasn't scared of the OW, and told you to go right ahead and do it if you thought you wanted her more than you wanted your marriage. That is one intelligent, brave woman, and it's no surprise to me that everything else paled into insignificance beside her. I'm glad it's worked out so well for you (hopefully!) Robert. But I wouldn't lay the credit for it at your counsellor's door. I'd also say you have a lot of making up to your W to do after this escapade. I agree that my counselor was taking a risk. I still want to ask her if it was a calculated risk, or if she was just groping for something to get me unstuck. I also agree that my wife's handling of this situation is extremely important to how this is working out. I very much appreciate your posts to this thread, and, yes, I do need to express deep gratitude to my wife for her efforts and her willingness to not give up. Thank you. I'd make one hell of an effort with your W, if I were you! You don't even know what a great woman you have there (and don't say you do!-you don't!). You sound like you're in a teenage phase and she sounds like a sensible, mature woman who is so calm and rational in a crisis. BUT.....it almost sounds like she's sitting back and assimilating all the information, and watching how you act over the course of this situation, before she reaches her own internal decision on things. You might just be seeing the face she wants you to see, if you get me.The reason I say make an effort is because her inner resenment may get to the point where she realises you might not be the best match in the world for her after all... "Teenage phase" -- that's exactly what my counselor said. She said that people who never go through their teenage phase when they're teenagers, sometimes act in a rebellious way much later in life. I have thought of that and wonder if that's what happened to me. No excuse for it though. And, yes, you're right about my wife possibly harboring thoughts and presenting a calm outward appearance. My counselor told me that not only do I have a choice, but my wife also has a choice, and she may decide to end the marriage. I realize that, but my sense is that she is genuine with her feelings. I fully believe that she wants to help me figure things out and get our marriage back on track. So Robert what are you going to do now? How did you end up chatting with other women on the internet in the first place? It doesnt "just happen" unless you are looking for new friends... And what are you going to do to ensure it doesnt happen again? Lots of people sound wonderful on emails (just ask anyone who has been through the internet dating cycle). If you keep making friends on line there is a chance you will find youself hooked again. Then what? Have you thought about what it is you think is missing in your marriage that you got from OW? And how you are going to get those needs filled with your W? Well, it's a long story, but I ended up meeting the OW in a chat room because my wife suggested it!! I think that's one of the reasons she's being understanding about the whole situation because she realizes that she had something to do with me meeting the OW. What am I going to do to ensure it doesn't happen again? Not visit chat rooms anymore. In the aftermath of what happened, I sure hope I've learned enough to not let this happen again. Through marriage counseling, we are discovering what was missing and are learning how to reconnect. We are in marriage counseling, I am in independent counseling, and we are also attending a church-based marriage seminar for troubled marriages. We're reading books about all this, and having frequent conversations about our feelings. Bottom-line, we're doing a lot, at least I think a lot, to try to recover from this.
jj33 Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 Thats great Robert. Really that is what counts. What did you learn from it and what are you doing to make your marriage and your future better
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