Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 OK, it has recently come to my attention that someone in my past was lying to his girlfriend (now wife) about a phone sex fling he and I were having. I used to post at this one message board, which I'd been a member of for years. After a breakup, a casual friend I knew from there started e-mailing me, and eventually, we started talking on the phone, then having a fun little phone sex relationship. This was in 2003. He told me he was single and lived alone, and I had no indication that this was not true. He certainly found time to talk to me often enough. Over time, he began to develop feelings for me (he seems to have a thing for female musicians) and wanted to fly and visit me. I had made clear all along that it was just light fun between relationships for me, so I said no, I did not want him to come visit. After that, I let him down easy and moved on. Well, I have recently discovered that this woman who posts on this message board, who always seemed to have animosity toward me, was his girlfriend at the time. She went snooping and discovered he had been calling me. I also figured out, from things she has written (she pours the entire contents of her guts out online), that he told her I was "just a friend" (lie), I was in relationship (lie), and nothing sexual whatsoever happened (lie -- from my end, the involvement was somewhat friendly and mostly sexual). It was so sad to read her account -- she was obviously so desperate to believe his transparent lies. I haven't posted on this message board in a couple of years, but I am wondering if I shouldn't bring my knowledge of his lies to light, to either of them. Discovering from what she wrote that he lied to me (and her) infuriated me. I have never been cheated on (to my knowledge) or cheated on anyone, and here I was the unwitting other (Internet) woman. I couldn't believe he would lie like that. I am inclined at least to contact him. Would it be better to leave it alone, though? What do you think?
Mike B. Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 If you have truly move on then continue to do so and do not have anything further to do with this situation. It was just internet and a phone thing and long distance. I would just let it go away and not involve yourself any further than you have. You did nothing wrong. If you do say something they may have a hrorrible fight and involve you and still get back together and you will be the one being hated by both. Let them iron this out.
Geishawhelk Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Until you discovered this, you had obviously moved on. It's clear she - or they - haven't. That's their problem. If the commments become seriously libellous, you might have a case against them. There are laws against that kind of thing, even on the internet, no matter what justification she feels she may have. If nales are mentioned, or scurrilous comments appear, then you may well have legal grounds for intevening and bringing it to a stop. But for now, let them deal with it. If they can't let something like this go, what will happen when something REALLY serious crops up.....??
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 I e-mailed him last night. I want some kind of explanation from him. I have been opening my eyes and trying to stop being naive about men, and this was certainly an eye-opener. Why do men LIE? If they want to have sexual involvements with more than one person, why aren't they just honest about it? I want to see what he says. I did tell him that I won't tell her, though. It's his mess.
AAlike Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I e-mailed him last night. I want some kind of explanation from him. I have been opening my eyes and trying to stop being naive about men, and this was certainly an eye-opener. Why do men LIE? If they want to have sexual involvements with more than one person, why aren't they just honest about it? I want to see what he says. I did tell him that I won't tell her, though. It's his mess. I don't think that cheating is really about the "sexual involvements" themselves. I think cheating is more a perverse form of escapism than it is just not being in control of your hormones. if they were on the up-and-up about it, the appeal would go away. It's similar to why an alcoholic tends to drink alone even though he could just go to a bar and do it if he wanted to.
Mike B. Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I e-mailed him last night. I want some kind of explanation from him. I have been opening my eyes and trying to stop being naive about men, and this was certainly an eye-opener. Why do men LIE? If they want to have sexual involvements with more than one person, why aren't they just honest about it? I want to see what he says. I did tell him that I won't tell her, though. It's his mess. Wow, I was hoping you wouldn't open this cans of worms. You are not really expecting that 'liar" to give you the real insight of why he did what he did, are? Who cares why he did it? If you stopped and had moved on, why would you care? I ahve to ask this and ask for your honesty: Where you still having something going on with him?
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 Men will use the biology/"spread my seed" argument, though, which is about following evolutionary programming and has nothing to do with escapism. I am starting to think pretty much all men WANT to have sex with women other than their primary partners, and most of them will do so, if presented with the opportunity, especially if they think they are unlikely to get caught. It seems to me that the ones who do not cheat are mainly the ones who are either too lazy or insecure to look elsewhere, and almost all of these who use arguably "harmless" substitutes (often of the Internet variety), porn, webcams, cybersex, and whatever. I am trying to figure out how, as a straight woman, to have a happy life with men involved. Because you know, the idea of being the wife or the girlfriend is really starting to lose its luster. It doesn't seem to matter how great/attractive/sexy/loving/loyal you are as a female, eventually, your novelty wears off and your guy's mind starts to wander. And far too often, more than his mind wanders. But I have an ethical problem with being "the other woman", and I don't do "casual" very well -- I'm pretty all or nothing. So I don't know what that leaves me with. I've always been a very positive and optimistic person, and I've always believed in the transformative power of love, but I am opening my eyes and feeling quite shocked and saddened by what I am seeing in the world around me.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 Wow, I was hoping you wouldn't open this cans of worms. You are not really expecting that 'liar" to give you the real insight of why he did what he did, are? Who cares why he did it? If you stopped and had moved on, why would you care? I ahve to ask this and ask for your honesty: Where you still having something going on with him? Our thing went on for a couple of months back in 2003. Then he wanted to buy a plane ticket and come see me, but I said no. Once I declined, things faded out almost immediately. It wasn't long before I started dating again, and I told him that was that. I have had no correspondence with him since. This guy struck me as a normal, intelligent guy, pretty similar to the kind of guy I typically date -- very intelligent, somewhat bookish, musical, masculine but also sensitive. He's a music professor and seems like a nice, upstanding kind of guy. He didn't strike me as some big creep. I am hoping for some insight into what he was thinking, how he could lie to both of us like that, what he hoped to gain. Maybe I'm (again) being naive, but this seemed to go a little beyond a light, sexual thing from his end. He is very drawn to creative women (especially musicians), and he was pretty starstruck over my music. It seems like maybe he was shopping around. I find the whole thing hurtful, and somewhat angering. I can't believe he thought so little of both me and his WIFE (fiance at the time all this happened, I've since learned) that he could lie to us as he did. But you know, it seems that men do it all the damn time. I would like to know what the hell they are thinking.
AAlike Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 just stop dating musicians - they're the ultimate scumbags.
audrey_1 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Why do men LIE? If they want to have sexual involvements with more than one person, why aren't they just honest about it? I want to see what he says. I did tell him that I won't tell her, though. It's his mess. Yes. They should own it, right? Perhaps because he was married and a douchebag, and he couldn't be emotionally faithful. Or technically faithful? Someone just recently lied to me about having a visible mark on his neck from kissing. Okay, a hickey. He said he fell down hiking then came clean later. So sad he thought I'd fall for it, but he didn't even flinch when he first said it. We're not even in a relationship, and his first reaction was STILL to LIE. Pretty sad.
sandrawg Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Men will use the biology/"spread my seed" argument, though, which is about following evolutionary programming and has nothing to do with escapism. I am starting to think pretty much all men WANT to have sex with women other than their primary partners, and most of them will do so, if presented with the opportunity, especially if they think they are unlikely to get caught. It seems to me that the ones who do not cheat are mainly the ones who are either too lazy or insecure to look elsewhere, and almost all of these who use arguably "harmless" substitutes (often of the Internet variety), porn, webcams, cybersex, and whatever. I am trying to figure out how, as a straight woman, to have a happy life with men involved. Because you know, the idea of being the wife or the girlfriend is really starting to lose its luster. It doesn't seem to matter how great/attractive/sexy/loving/loyal you are as a female, eventually, your novelty wears off and your guy's mind starts to wander. And far too often, more than his mind wanders. But I have an ethical problem with being "the other woman", and I don't do "casual" very well -- I'm pretty all or nothing. So I don't know what that leaves me with. I've always been a very positive and optimistic person, and I've always believed in the transformative power of love, but I am opening my eyes and feeling quite shocked and saddened by what I am seeing in the world around me. I can TOTALLY relate. Read my postings. My bf has lied to me and yet I keep/kept taking him back, and now I'm acting like a crazy jealous person. My relationship before that, the guy was constantly trying to hook up w/other women behind my back. I found out by snooping on his email. Before that, my ex-husband, who was a great guy, left me because of an illness. I'm 41 and about to just get out of the dating scene altogether.
sandrawg Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 just stop dating musicians - they're the ultimate scumbags. Um, you might want to read a little more carefully-SHE'S a musician!!
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 Perhaps because he was married and a douchebag, and he couldn't be emotionally faithful. Or technically faithful? He was engaged at the time. If he was unhappy with her, he could have gotten out. Why did he stay??? And LIE??! I can TOTALLY relate. Read my postings. My bf has lied to me and yet I keep/kept taking him back, and now I'm acting like a crazy jealous person. My relationship before that, the guy was constantly trying to hook up w/other women behind my back. I found out by snooping on his email. Before that, my ex-husband, who was a great guy, left me because of an illness. I'm 41 and about to just get out of the dating scene altogether. Ugh, I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences. To my knowledge, I have never been cheated on. But I have been paying attention lately, talking to a lot of men about the way they REALLY think (the Internet is a gold mine for this). Before the Internet, I had no idea. Of course, I heard all the remarks about men being dogs and so on, but naive little me always believed that there were some loyal, honest guys in the world. Now that the curtain has been pulled back, I'm starting to seriously doubt that. It's not even that I think they're scum. If they're engineered not to be faithful, there's nothing they can do about that. It's the LYING. If 95% of men stood up and said, "I am not capable of or interested in being monogamous", well, at least then women would know what we're working with. We wouldn't build up our hopes and dreams out of a house of cards. Why are most men so wimpy that they can't come clean and be honest about who they really are? I have way more respect for the guy who is non-monogamous yet honest about his lifestyle than the one who fakes it and lies and cheats.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 just stop dating musicians - they're the ultimate scumbags. lol Yeah, I'm a musician, too. But I know women and men are different. I get along with musicians better than anyone -- friends and lovers. I had one serious relationship with a scientist, and while it was intellectually stimulating (I'm a physics nerd), there was very little chemistry or sexual spark.
AAlike Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I had one serious relationship with a scientist, and while it was intellectually stimulating (I'm a physics nerd), there was very little chemistry. that sounds like a rip taylor joke or something (scientist...chemistry...CHA CHING!).
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 Yeah, I remembered a quote right after I posted that: Love is a matter of chemistry, but sex is a matter of physics.
Mike B. Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 If you believe that all men cheat or 95% of them, that leaves you with only two choices: 1. Accept that any man you find will be a cheater, learn to live with it and just make sure he is a cheater with a nice personality. 2. Give up on men all together. Neither option probably sounds nice and that is why we must remain optimistic. It is good to remain this way because if you buy into the belief that all men cheat, it will show up all over you in every relationship and every men you date will either wind up cheating on you or bailing out because you are obsessed over them cheating on you. I am a professional male with many professional friends and many of them value their marriage or girlfriend too much to cheat. Of course some talk about it but they don't act on it. It is almost like a fantasy. Also, we all agree cheating is horrible but we must accept our own responsibility in being great partners that are hard to cheat on. If they will cheat, at least make them think many times about it before actually doing it. Finally, of course, you always must start out with a great template if you want to end up with a great finished product in the end so you can't choose the "bad boy" and expect him to be good when it comes to commitment.
soconfused01 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 there are nice men out there, them and their girlfriends
sandrawg Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Also, we all agree cheating is horrible but we must accept our own responsibility in being great partners that are hard to cheat on. If they will cheat, at least make them think many times about it before actually doing it. How? How do you do that?
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 28, 2008 Author Posted September 28, 2008 It is good to remain this way because if you buy into the belief that all men cheat, it will show up all over you in every relationship and every men you date will either wind up cheating on you or bailing out because you are obsessed over them cheating on you. You're right. As I said, I've never been cheated on (that I know of). I think that I am just feeling some cynicism in the wake of the roller coaster relationship I just ended. The realization about this liar didn't help. I am a professional male with many professional friends and many of them value their marriage or girlfriend too much to cheat. Of course some talk about it but they don't act on it. It is almost like a fantasy. That is good to know. Thanks for telling me. Finally, of course, you always must start out with a great template if you want to end up with a great finished product in the end so you can't choose the "bad boy" and expect him to be good when it comes to commitment. I have never been drawn to bad boys (on the contrary, I like ultra-smart guys with a slightly nerdy edge, usually), but my last boyfriend was the most masculine and typical GUY guy I've been with seriously. I think he was very devoted and loving, but he was not good at all with expressing emotions and instilling feelings of security, in contrast to most of the other men I've dated. But I see now the mistakes I made with him (primarily, going against my better judgment and starting off in a long-distance situation). I won't make the same mistake again. I haven't heard back from the slimeball and don't expect to. But I am feeling better and moving on. Thanks for indulging my questions.
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