MC to assist with Divorce

[SmartWoman321]

I have a wierd situation- my stbx doesn't want a D, we have been living apart for 9 months, filed about a month ago. He would rather live in a loveless, incompatible , comfortable relationship with no intimacy or connection. He is happy as a clam that way, I am not. We filed uncontested, he going along with out only because he knows its what I want/need...and plus neither of us can afford lawyers.

We are freindly- talk almost everyday- and when I say 'talk", I don't mean any meaningful conversation- just pleasantries and small talk about the kids, weather, etc. He cannot bring himself to talk about our break up and we NEED to start deviding the property and debts to prepare for the final court date. Its too painful for him to bring up and it is too painful for me to see HIM in pain, so I don't bring it up either. Its like we are both ignoring it. So, I told him I would like to see an MC with him again, our first appt is tomorrow night with someone new. I told him I want to see an MC to be absolutely sure that this is what I need, that I made the right decision to file. I know that it IS, but this will CONFIRM THAT> I am thinking that HE thinks we are seeing the MC to try to get back together! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! I told him, flat out, that at this point I still need the D and I am NOT going to the MC with any hopes of returning to the marriage, but I really don't think he is hearing that.

I have a friend who is a Psychologist and she said that she HAS had cases of divorcing couples come in to therapy, not to work things out but to get THRU it. So its not unheard of.

I have every intention of revealing at the first session that this is the only way I feel we can talk and get thru this- and that I have no desire to get back into the marriage. That will be hard for me, because I know its going to crush him all over again. I hate to see him hurting.

Butu I really see no other way of getting thru this.

Anyone else ever done this?

[SoleMate]

The pre-divorce limbo is not all that weird or unusual. Many couples stay stuck there for years.

 

I think MC MIGHT help - if you find a good counselor, which is a huge if - but be aware that your H is not the only one with issues related to the D. You say you don't talk D matters to him because you can't bear to se him in pain. Well, that right there is an absolute roadblock to a non-attorney divorce until/unless you get over it. Maybe the counselor can help you understand that there is no such thing as a divorce free of pain on each side. The norm is lots of pain on BOTH sides. Which do you want more - no pain or a divorce?

 

Or, who knows, maybe the MC will help you two work out your issues and reconcile. Perhaps your problems are solvable. Sounds like you two still have lots of good feelings left, just no spark or excitement. Well, there are ways to get it back. Try reading His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley. Buying the book will be much cheaper than filing for divorce OR seeing a marriage counselor.

[Geishawhelk]

No, MC is not a good idea.

Not in this case.

What you actually need is a financial arbiter.

This isn't about counselling, because you know exactly what you want. He's not getting it.

An mc is not the person equipped to guide you through your division of goods and chattels, property and anything else. That's not their job. their job is to act as a sounding board and a go-between for emotional issues. To ask them to do anything else is unreasonable, and will resolve nothing.

You need an accountant versed in the division of property in divorces, or a legal service that provides this as a cost-effective way of getting your point home!

[TrustInYourself]

I have a wierd situation- my stbx doesn't want a D, we have been living apart for 9 months, filed about a month ago. He would rather live in a loveless, incompatible , comfortable relationship with no intimacy or connection. He is happy as a clam that way, I am not. We filed uncontested, he going along with out only because he knows its what I want/need...and plus neither of us can afford lawyers.

We are freindly- talk almost everyday- and when I say 'talk", I don't mean any meaningful conversation- just pleasantries and small talk about the kids, weather, etc. He cannot bring himself to talk about our break up and we NEED to start deviding the property and debts to prepare for the final court date. Its too painful for him to bring up and it is too painful for me to see HIM in pain, so I don't bring it up either. Its like we are both ignoring it. So, I told him I would like to see an MC with him again, our first appt is tomorrow night with someone new. I told him I want to see an MC to be absolutely sure that this is what I need, that I made the right decision to file. I know that it IS, but this will CONFIRM THAT> I am thinking that HE thinks we are seeing the MC to try to get back together! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! I told him, flat out, that at this point I still need the D and I am NOT going to the MC with any hopes of returning to the marriage, but I really don't think he is hearing that.

I have a friend who is a Psychologist and she said that she HAS had cases of divorcing couples come in to therapy, not to work things out but to get THRU it. So its not unheard of.

I have every intention of revealing at the first session that this is the only way I feel we can talk and get thru this- and that I have no desire to get back into the marriage. That will be hard for me, because I know its going to crush him all over again. I hate to see him hurting.

Butu I really see no other way of getting thru this.

Anyone else ever done this?

 

Any hopes of returning to marriage the way it was? or the way it can be?

 

If a man learns to love you the way you desire and can rebuild a passion inside your heart, isn't that all you really need to be willing to suggest MC?

 

Also, MC sends the wrong idea if you want closure or to end it. Sounds to me as a man, that there is a way through this if he can just be the man you fell in love with in the first place and stop acting/being the man who drove you away.

 

Why crush him if you're willing to go to MC with him? Why even go? To communicate how you are no longer interested or in love with him. The better course would be to just tell him I need space. No contact, no conversations, strictly relaying information in the most limited form. That will allow you both to understand the situation without contact. After he has moved on to a new woman and you a new man, maybe then you can reinitiate conversations.

 

Meh, my thoughts. I'm not in your shoes though.

[SmartWoman321]

Any hopes of returning to marriage the way it was? or the way it can be?

 

 

******No- we tried that already - thru MC .

 

If a man learns to love you the way you desire and can rebuild a passion inside your heart, isn't that all you really need to be willing to suggest MC?

 

****I am not in love with him, nor could I be.

 

Also, MC sends the wrong idea if you want closure or to end it. Sounds to me as a man, that there is a way through this if he can just be the man you fell in love with in the first place and stop acting/being the man who drove you away.

 

 

***I never really fell in love with him. I thought I did, but I realized after a few years, that I was mistaken.

 

Why crush him if you're willing to go to MC with him? Why even go?

 

***well, we are going to help us communicate. She is not really a "marriage counselor" per say- just a regular therapist who counsels couples, individuals, families, etc. Guess I shouldn't refer to it as marriage counseling.

 

 

 

 

 

To communicate how you are no longer interested or in love with him. The better course would be to just tell him I need space.

 

 

***I don't really need space from him, he is a nice guy, a good dad and a friend. He can hang out whenever he wants. I just don't want to be married to him.

 

No contact, no conversations, strictly relaying information in the most limited form.

That will allow you both to understand the situation without contact. After he has moved on to a new woman and you a new man, maybe then you can reinitiate conversations.

 

*****no, thats not neccessary in our case. We "talk" all the time- have to, as we switch the kids back and forth every weekend. (again, we don't have any talks of substance, just abotu the kids and a freindly "how ya doin".

However, if he ever wants no contact, or limited, thats ok with me too- I don't care either way- makes no difference to me, really.

 

The thing is that we are having a hard time moving forward with the divorce. He won't talk about it, ignores it, pretends its not happening. I don't like to bring it up because it hurts me to hurt him. Blah! So I really think we need a therapist to walk us thru this process.

[SmartWoman321]

No, MC is not a good idea.

Not in this case.

What you actually need is a financial arbiter.

This isn't about counselling, because you know exactly what you want. He's not getting it.

An mc is not the person equipped to guide you through your division of goods and chattels, property and anything else. That's not their job. their job is to act as a sounding board and a go-between for emotional issues. To ask them to do anything else is unreasonable, and will resolve nothing.

You need an accountant versed in the division of property in divorces, or a legal service that provides this as a cost-effective way of getting your point home!

 

********Hm---well, this isn't about money or the division of assets or anything like that- we can do that ourselves, its more like we can't even bring ourselves to talk about such stuff because of emotional issues.

This is more to get us to communicarte as 2 people who need to move thru this process , dealing with the children and coming to terms with the divorce. And she isn't an MC- I shouldn't have said that- she is a regular therapist who sees anyone.

[SmartWoman321]

The pre-divorce limbo is not all that weird or unusual. Many couples stay stuck there for years.

 

I think MC MIGHT help - if you find a good counselor, which is a huge if - but be aware that your H is not the only one with issues related to the D. You say you don't talk D matters to him because you can't bear to se him in pain. Well, that right there is an absolute roadblock to a non-attorney divorce until/unless you get over it. Maybe the counselor can help you understand that there is no such thing as a divorce free of pain on each side. The norm is lots of pain on BOTH sides. Which do you want more - no pain or a divorce?

 

Or, who knows, maybe the MC will help you two work out your issues and reconcile. Perhaps your problems are solvable. Sounds like you two still have lots of good feelings left, just no spark or excitement. Well, there are ways to get it back. Try reading His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley. Buying the book will be much cheaper than filing for divorce OR seeing a marriage counselor.

 

No, nothing can make me have any desire to stay in this marriage- its completely not possible. I have been in IT for 8 months and I know that for a fact now. He sees an IT too.

I guess I made a mistake when I titled this post "MC"- because its not "MC". Its "divorcing couples counseling". His parents divorced when he was about 20 and they remained best friends for the next 20 years, hung out and stuff but did not live together. Thats how I see us too- but I really don't want to hang out with him, we are just too incompatible and we have nothing to talk about. That said, I hope we continue the good parenting- relationship .

[TrustInYourself]

Any hopes of returning to marriage the way it was? or the way it can be?

 

 

******No- we tried that already - thru MC .

 

If a man learns to love you the way you desire and can rebuild a passion inside your heart, isn't that all you really need to be willing to suggest MC?

 

****I am not in love with him, nor could I be.

 

Also, MC sends the wrong idea if you want closure or to end it. Sounds to me as a man, that there is a way through this if he can just be the man you fell in love with in the first place and stop acting/being the man who drove you away.

 

 

***I never really fell in love with him. I thought I did, but I realized after a few years, that I was mistaken.

 

Why crush him if you're willing to go to MC with him? Why even go?

 

***well, we are going to help us communicate. She is not really a "marriage counselor" per say- just a regular therapist who counsels couples, individuals, families, etc. Guess I shouldn't refer to it as marriage counseling.

 

 

 

 

 

To communicate how you are no longer interested or in love with him. The better course would be to just tell him I need space.

 

 

***I don't really need space from him, he is a nice guy, a good dad and a friend. He can hang out whenever he wants. I just don't want to be married to him.

 

No contact, no conversations, strictly relaying information in the most limited form.

That will allow you both to understand the situation without contact. After he has moved on to a new woman and you a new man, maybe then you can reinitiate conversations.

 

*****no, thats not neccessary in our case. We "talk" all the time- have to, as we switch the kids back and forth every weekend. (again, we don't have any talks of substance, just abotu the kids and a freindly "how ya doin".

However, if he ever wants no contact, or limited, thats ok with me too- I don't care either way- makes no difference to me, really.

 

The thing is that we are having a hard time moving forward with the divorce. He won't talk about it, ignores it, pretends its not happening. I don't like to bring it up because it hurts me to hurt him. Blah! So I really think we need a therapist to walk us thru this process.

 

If he continues to communicate with you in a fashion that builds trust and caring from both ends, then you are miscommunicating with him. Maybe you are fine with continued contact, but it's not fine with him because it's misleading. Everything you have said, seems to indicate that your STBXH is not truly over you and has not accepted the situation for what it truly is.

 

I didn't suggest no/limited contact for your sake, because you seem to be completely aware of your decision and the impact it will have on both your lives. He, on the other hand, seems to be struggling with acceptace of the divorce. I think it's pretty obvious why you want the divorce.

 

I think you're being unfair and selfish by continuing your current course of action. If you really cared/loved your husband, you'd be willing to cut him loose.

 

Enjoy being single while it lasts. I hope your STBXH has the same oppurtunity as well to find and meet new women who will actually put his interest and well-being first like he deserves.

[SmartWoman321]

 

If he continues to communicate with you in a fashion that builds trust and caring from both ends, then you are miscommunicating with him. Maybe you are fine with continued contact, but it's not fine with him because it's misleading. Everything you have said, seems to indicate that your STBXH is not truly over you and has not accepted the situation for what it truly is.

 

I didn't suggest no/limited contact for your sake, because you seem to be completely aware of your decision and the impact it will have on both your lives. He, on the other hand, seems to be struggling with acceptace of the divorce. I think it's pretty obvious why you want the divorce.

 

I think you're being unfair and selfish by continuing your current course of action. If you really cared/loved your husband, you'd be willing to cut him loose.

 

Enjoy being single while it lasts. I hope your STBXH has the same oppurtunity as well to find and meet new women who will actually put his interest and well-being first like he deserves.

 

******ouch. Ok, I understand what you are saying and yes, he doesn't seem to get it or accept it. THATS why I suggested we see a theripist together, so that he will finally understand!

I have been putting his well being first for about 8 years- not leaving ebcause it would hurt him too much. He really isn't all that into "me"- he is happy in a platonci, roommate-type marriage, because of all the "stuff" and the security. I am not happy with that.

In the past 8 months of IC, I have learned that I can no longer keep putting his intersts first because it neglects mine.

I AM willing to cut him loose- OMG- I have been wanting to do that FOREVER! ....I just want to do it in a way to cause the least amount of damage, to save what good relationship that we have (as freinds) and to help him have a clear understanding of it all.

I will make it very clear that I am not there to be misleading- believe me, I intend to lay it on the line (gently)---and I will leave it up to him if he wants to continue to go as a "couple" to assist us in communication.

I think this will be a good thing- if we don't do this- we will never be able to move forward!!!!!

[TrustInYourself]

 

******ouch. Ok, I understand what you are saying and yes, he doesn't seem to get it or accept it. THATS why I suggested we see a theripist together, so that he will finally understand!

I have been putting his well being first for about 8 years- not leaving ebcause it would hurt him too much. He really isn't all that into "me"- he is happy in a platonci, roommate-type marriage, because of all the "stuff" and the security. I am not happy with that.

In the past 8 months of IC, I have learned that I can no longer keep putting his intersts first because it neglects mine.

I AM willing to cut him loose- OMG- I have been wanting to do that FOREVER! ....I just want to do it in a way to cause the least amount of damage, to save what good relationship that we have (as freinds) and to help him have a clear understanding of it all.

I will make it very clear that I am not there to be misleading- believe me, I intend to lay it on the line (gently)---and I will leave it up to him if he wants to continue to go as a "couple" to assist us in communication.

I think this will be a good thing- if we don't do this- we will never be able to move forward!!!!!

 

Oh I understand that's not your intention. I feel for your situation and for your feelings, but I can see his perspective very easily from my own situation.

 

I just think that you are setting yourself up for misinterpretation of your efforts from your husband.

 

It's good that you're putting your feelings first! Good luck on your communication session, SW!

[Ronni_W]

THATS why I suggested we see a theripist together, so that he will finally understand!

That reminds me of that centuries-old joke, "Wake up...it's time for your sleeping pill."

Cos, for the person who doesn't want to be apart (or can't see the reality that 'apart' truly is where s/he is headed)...for that person, doing things "together" doesn't at all reinforce "we are separate." In fact, on some level, it brings hope for the opposite.

 

I did the same thing to my ex...I thought "for" him but, in the end (currently, 10 years later), there is evidence that I should just have ripped off the bandaid in one quick, painful step. I didn't do anything positive for him, at all. Cos, 10 years, and he really didn't "move forward" in any significant way. And we were legally divorced 8 years ago!

 

So my good intentions and motivations really weren't at all "good" for him. Not that I was deliberately selfish and unfair, but that the end result for him seems to be the same as if I had been.

 

I think this will be a good thing- if we don't do this- we will never be able to move forward!!!!!

The thing that I had to realize was that, what seemed/felt to be good for "us" was only good for ME, as it turned out in the end.

 

From your post, it doesn't appear that there is a "we", anymore, for you. So, from now on, it is only about YOUR moving forward, that is all you have power and control over. HE is going to move forward at his own pace, or he will not move forward at all.

In my own experience, it just doesn't/won't matter WHAT you (try to) do to influence that process for him. No matter HOW good your intentions and motivations. Sadly.

[SmartWoman321]

From your post, it doesn't appear that there is a "we", anymore, for you. So, from now on, it is only about YOUR moving forward, that is all you have power and control over. HE is going to move forward at his own pace, or he will not move forward at all.

 

Well, I don't mean ONLY emotionally moving forward--but truely, we will never be able to come together to prepare the division of assets and stuff like that for our final hearing unless we can TALK about this stuff! And we are not able to talk about it on our own! We just can't! So this is one reason I think we need a "mediator"- a third person, to help us communicate so that we can get moving on the divorce process.

Again, tomorrow is the first session- and I will say why I am there. And perhaps he will say why he agreed to go. And perhaps the therapist will say that we should not come back. Or maybe she will say we SHOULD. And maybe he won't want to. WHO KNOWS! I am just frustrated at just going along pretending everything is fine and dandy and ignoring the fact that we have a divorce to prepare for.

[onward]

In a sense I'm in your husband's shoes. The durations (marriage and subsequent limbo state) are not nearly as long. Also, while my preference is not for us to separate, I would not say that I was or am content in a marriage which lacks intimacy. Far from it, I'm a very passionate being (Aries)... It's just that life sneaks up on you sometimes and you lose yourself. I just had to have my eyes opened... but by then it was too late for my STBXW.

 

My main point though is that we're doing a Collaborative Divorce process. As we go through the process we are working with coaches (dedicated therapists) to have the tough dialogues. We meet one on one with our therapists, and then in 4 ways with the two of us and our therapists together. It is VERY good. In the beginning we dealt with what brought us here and coming to terms with where we are. We also have lawyers, and a shared financial planner. Sounds expensive, right? Well... wonder of wonders... the whole thing is working out much cheaper then litigation (so far). I recommend you look into this approach.

 

I can tell you that in the beginning of the process I was looking at anything that would change my wife's mind, etc. My coach helped me see that it is what it is, and how to proceed. We are communicating in beneficial ways (there are still backslides though), but instead of lining lawyer's pockets with fees for court motions, we are spending the money on getting to a mutual point of "ok-yness", and who knows maybe even happiness. At this point I've let go of all the rope (i.e. stopped pulling), and am helping my wife to get what she needs. I see some of the same from her to me, but there are still some residual control fears on her part (somewhat because I resisted for so long before getting into this process). By the way, the only reason I got into this process was because I thought the continued dialogue might change her mind. It was a false hope, but the the process helped clear all of that for me. Ultimately our daughter (5) will be the big winner here, because we are working hard to keep things as positive as they can be in this situation.

 

I think this approach might really help you, because your husband sounds passive aggressive. So he seems "ok" to you, but all kinds of trouble might come up if you jump into a divorce process without this type of safety net (i.e. go litigation instead of collaborative or mediation). It strikes me that your husband has actually been aggressive through being passive, and has probably done this throughout your marriage...

 

The process I've gone through has really helped me to identify how I was in the relationship and deal with my issues. This was time very well spent, I'd rather put my energy into that, then put my energy into lawyers' maneuvers against my daughter's mother.

 

For what it's worth, we've avoided the messy financial discovery process and the painful legal motions. I just stated all my [significant and very complicated] assets, and everyone trusted that -- even my portrayal of how assets were co-mingled. To me that speaks volumes to the level of trust that was created between us.

 

The process also helped my wife to come to terms with the dramatic change that will come to her standard of living (I had significant assets pre-marriage). However... I've also agreed to make *every* effort in the division to see to it that she has what she really needs. In litigation we could have burnt through $150K just to get to this point...

 

I've discovered that a lot of what you go through in the divorce is not real. Often times you are shadow boxing with your own fears, and are projecting them onto the other person. That fear in fact has nothing to do with what's actually on your STBX's mind. The coaches and the collaborative lawyers really help to keep all of this in perspective.

 

Some of the biggest rocks are out of the way, but there is still plenty of pain and lots to work through.

 

I hope this helps you, do a search for a Collaborative Divorce practice near you.

 

As to your other question:

 

I think you are definitely ready to date. Now I'm partial to smart women, but I think I need another 6 months to get there myself... Unless you are talking about simple gratification, because god knows I could use some -- it's been a year! :-)

[SmartWoman321]

hm...well, maybe this therepist can, in essence, serve the same purpose. We don't have any money. And I mean none. I didn't even have to pay the filing fee at the courthouse ebcause of my financial status. he doesn't even make enough to pay his rent/bills and I am paying him a small stipend to get him by month to month. (why? because Ic are about him, want him to survive and my 16 year old is living with him and I want him to be able to support him).

So, truely, we have no assets to divide except for the house and the stuff in it, and we have already agreed that I will stay here for the sake of the 2 youngest and he will get off the mortgage, i will continue to pay the mortgage on my own until our youngest is out and then I will sell it and split it 50-50.

So - thats that. Other than that, we just have to divide all of the loans and credit card debt. And neither of us has a dime in the bank.

Married with 2 incomes for 18 years and not a penny to show for it- thats another story- guess who made all of the bad money decisions and was in charge of the finances- not me, thats who.

 

Anyhoo-

 

Unless a litigator takes food stamps, I will have to stick with my 30.00- a -session- for -low -income -single -moms therapist and hope she can do the trick.