exriguy Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 In July my wife asked for a legal separation. We'd just been through hell with one of our kids being diagnosed with a bad disease. We have also had a lot of outside stressful events bear down on the marriage and for several years we have grown somewhat apart in light of outside stressors but still had many fundamental connections, including decent sex. I suffered from mild depression and she has her own issues. I really believe the outside stress killed us and robbed us of our marriage and any "us" time. At any rate, we have 4 young kids and had been married 13 years. Since the separation I have done a 360 and have transformed myself into what would have always been her "dream husband" (her words) by dealing with a lot of unresiolved issues that I had -- which has complicated her wanting to leave. She claims that she had been planning to leave me for over a year and had checked out way in advance . . . She immediately after the separation began going after the kids doctor and began an emotional affair that same month with him. For two months she was torn, trying on several occasions to shut it down with him while also wanting to reconcile with me -- we tried several mini-reconciliations each for a period of days. Every time she shut it down with him to reconcile with me she would get very angry and break down and start contacting him again. He in fact diagnosed our son when no one else could -- he "saved" him in all likelihood -- he was her "knight" I suppose. After trying to reconcile for one last time over Labor Day she said she was done trying and that it was truly over and that she was in love with him. She began sleeping with him almost immediately. I went out and found a younger woman and have rather spitefully returned the favor. She is still torn however. She loves both me and him and realizes that he will not leave his wife -- he is "happily married" with two kids. She still says she is not ready to reconcile however with me while I of course still would. She believes that time will heal the wounds though and still has days where she wants to try to reconcile. She cannot give him up right now I suspect, even though she would like to. The question is -- am I an idiot for wanting to reconcile this now? She has lied profusely along the way about the extent of her dialogue with him and trust will be a huge issue. She thinks she loves both him and I but she can't have him and therefore I feel like I would be her second choice and that this will happen all over again someday. On the other hand, she wants to shut it down with him on certain days and not on others. She is seriously confused and is screwing with my head. Any thoughts on if this is just too far gone? We have a lot in common aside from the kids, including a deep physical connection.
SingleDad Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Your W wanted a legal separation so she could have an affair guilt free. You are not an idiot for wanting to save your marriage and your family with 4 kids. The hardest part is being able to get over the affair - and getting her over her emotional addiction to OM. Owl is the expert on how to do this. Until Owl responds - I would read Maladjusted's thread - "Separation Uncertain" in its entirety - paying close attention to Owl's recommendations. Maladjusted was in a very similar situation with his W having an affair with her boss - he was able to pull her away and are working on reconciliation. Also - avoid a separation... you cannot communicate well with anyone when you are not together (how can you save a marriage when apart) ... and much harder to bust an affair when you cannot monitor W's actions.
TrustInYourself Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 People want what they can't have. Next time she asks if you want to reconcile say no. After a few responses of no the reconciliation, she'll want one. Cut her out of your life completely. Show no weakness.
lkjh Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Sounds like the affair was a catalyst for the separation not the other way around. Once your SO leaves you for another person its over in my mind even if they want to come back. I say you file for a divorce and seek legal action against the Doctor. Your wife acted very badly considering your case. When a family is suffering the last thing one party should do is up and leave so they can get involved with someone else. She broke the family base so she could work on herself and that is just wrong.
zazue Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Once your spouse in actively involved in an affair, you must just think of them as a stranger. They twist facts around in their mind in order to justify what they are doing, and sooth their guilty feelings. They make you the "bad guy", everything is your fault, YOU are the crazy one, and you made them do it. It's hurtful, but don't let it get to you if you can. Work on healing youself. Do things you like to do. Have fun with friends. You need to move on with your life, even if you don't feel like it. That is the only way to heal yourself, and put the pain behind you. Good luck.
Author exriguy Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 Thanks for the input. I read through Owl's and others comments. The big difference I have is that she says that she loves this guy but also loves me and wants to still "be friends" with him. She is not apologetic and still blames me for 75% of all our problems. She says that she may want to reconcile but still isn't sure and may just want to be "by herself" right now. Also says that she is concerned that she will do this again in a couple of years if i don't let her figure out what she wants on her own and sort through her feelings for this guy!!! Can you believe that! She says this all at the same time that she is telling me that she still loves me!
Geishawhelk Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Walk away. It's over. The fact that she's seeking 'carte blanche' to possibly do this again in a couple of years' time? Oh, please! You need to gain a firm hold on your dignity and self-respect and tell her that now you're going your separate ways she can do whatever she likes and NOT wait two years. But if she expects you to roll over like some compliant pet dog, she's got another think coming. How much responsibility, though, do YOU take for this rift, just as a matter of curiosity? no fire, no smoke.....
TrustInYourself Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Thanks for the input. I read through Owl's and others comments. The big difference I have is that she says that she loves this guy but also loves me and wants to still "be friends" with him. She is not apologetic and still blames me for 75% of all our problems. She says that she may want to reconcile but still isn't sure and may just want to be "by herself" right now. Also says that she is concerned that she will do this again in a couple of years if i don't let her figure out what she wants on her own and sort through her feelings for this guy!!! Can you believe that! She says this all at the same time that she is telling me that she still loves me! The thing with affairs is knowing your value. Who does she truly value more in her life? What do you bring to the relationship? Can she afford to lose you and meet a better, more loving, giving individual? There are ways to tear people away from their affairs. I think you have the upper hand since you are married to her, but you can easily turn that advantage against yourself if you don't assess the situation properly. I can easily believe her when she says she loves both men. She has compartmentalized her feelings. She feels love for you and the OM. It happens daily. The thing is you both serve to meet different needs for her. The question is can you meet the needs the OM is fulfilling? Can you continue to reinforce your value by taking actions that accentuate your strengths? What are you doing to begin passively reinforcing your position as her husband, and limiting the influence the OM has? You want to win over the OM? You have to do more of what your wife needs and loves and give the OM time to defeat himself. He's human and he will make mistakes. Limit the mistakes you make. Do not argue. Increase your physical appearance. Increase your social circles. Go on dates with other women. Be flirty and fun to be around, etc. These are all "games", but they are valuable actions that increase human attraction. It could be argued that smelling and looking good are games. Play the game. As far as the other man, if she wants to be friends. That's cool. Let her have her friend. Go make some of your own friends. Again, these are my opinions. You know best. That's my disclaimer. hah.
lkjh Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Thanks for the input. I read through Owl's and others comments. The big difference I have is that she says that she loves this guy but also loves me and wants to still "be friends" with him. She is not apologetic and still blames me for 75% of all our problems. She says that she may want to reconcile but still isn't sure and may just want to be "by herself" right now. Also says that she is concerned that she will do this again in a couple of years if i don't let her figure out what she wants on her own and sort through her feelings for this guy!!! Can you believe that! She says this all at the same time that she is telling me that she still loves me! Do not let her do this, you need to take control and file for a divorce. She is playing you both and you need to stop this now. Only talk to her with regards to the kids otherwise do not speak to her. let her know that she can't just play around with you like you are some doll. Let her know that it takes two to break up a marriage but only one to have an affair.
TrustInYourself Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Do not let her do this, you need to take control and file for a divorce. She is playing you both and you need to stop this now. Only talk to her with regards to the kids otherwise do not speak to her. let her know that she can't just play around with you like you are some doll. Let her know that it takes two to break up a marriage but only one to have an affair. Actually in retrospect, this is probably the best bet. Demand it ends with the OM or you leave. Simple as that. If she says she loves you. She's going to have to want you and prove it. All or nothing if you ask me. That's the only way you'll ever be able to trust her. Why have it halfway? Make it all or nothing. Oh yeah and addition to my prior post. That's how you passively win without forcing the situation or creating an argument. Creating love without taking love away. However, that approach doesn't apply since you already possess love. Take away the oppurtunity to have both of you. Then she will realize what she truly wants.
Author exriguy Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 Thanks all for the input. Some problems I should be clear about: I was probably 75% responsible for all the pre-separation marital problems and I have finally realized it (or she is real good salesperson at making me believe that I am). I was depressed, didn't really like myself and was disrespectful (not abusive or a cheater, but just didn't nurture, listen or care all that much about her needs). The OM is none of those and therefore some small part of me understands why she left. And, while I call this an "affair", she did ask for a legal separation before pursuing this guy -- a truly admirable approach that I have verified independently as true. I still love her and totally took her for granted -- she loved me unconditionally for years while all I did was push her away. For my part, I just went out and picked up a 21 yr old model that I am now dating and took to Vegas last weekend. Aren't we "even" in that category now? Can we move forward from this without me feeling like she has had sex with someone else but I have not -- something that I probably could not have lived with?
TrustInYourself Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Can you still be friends with your model friend? If so, I guess you guys have a very open marriage now. your call.
lkjh Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 It seems you are trying to justify what she is doing. Did she ever really talk to you and give you a chance to change or is she rewriting history like most cheaters do. Now that you are dating a young girl does not justify her having a affair. Cheaters are usually really good at making it seem like the BS is completely to blame and Im sorry but it wasn't chance that the two of you split and then she finds the Doctor, she probably found him first and wanted him. You are her back up now not her first choice!
Author exriguy Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 She asked me to change a 1000 times while we were married and I never did; she even threatened to leave if i didn't change and I never did. I'll take my share of the blame. As for being second choice -- this guy would leave his wife for her without question (she has told him not to out of fear she may not want him long term or because she may want to try to recncile) and yet she still wants to try to reconcile. While I do believe she is more in love with the idea of him and the fantasy of him right now at this moment, I do believe that she does truly love me. Fact is she is tormented by the fact that she met him and has tried breaking it off several times to reconcile with me -- not your typical "second choice" behavior I'd like to believe.
lkjh Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Look she is sleeping with a married man who is treating your son for an illness, no offense but you need to stop believing everything she says. You can not honestly believe this guy is going to up and leave his wife for a woman he just started sleeping with. People always say this to the person they are cheating with but they never go through with it. The longer you sit in the background and refuse to do anything the more respect she is going to lose for you. Ask yourself -what were the things she wanted changed -Were you the problem or was the situation your family was in the problem -was she always perfect -did your problems warrant this kind of treatment -can yo reconcile knowing she has been with another man -is she willing to make any changes -is she willing to accept any responsibility
carhill Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Has there been any MC in this mix? Any results? Given the circumstances, you'd likely be wise to consult a lawyer to understand your legal rights and responsibilities, both of which are substantial (with 4 children). I would strongly suggest no more 21 yo models (or equivilent). There is no good which will come from that at this time. When engaging or contemplating engaging in any behaviors, examine the faces of your children and keep those images in your mind. You have to be strong for them right now. Apparently your wife is not.
lkjh Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Look maybe she is a good person in a bad spot but that doesn't mean you need to sit back and allow her to punish you. If you want to reconcile give her a real shot but make it the last one. Let her know she needs to cut this guy out and tell his wife.
Author exriguy Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 Some very good questions -- responses in caps: Look she is sleeping with a married man who is treating your son for an illness, no offense but you need to stop believing everything she says. You can not honestly believe this guy is going to up and leave his wife for a woman he just started sleeping with. People always say this to the person they are cheating with but they never go through with it. The longer you sit in the background and refuse to do anything the more respect she is going to lose for you. Ask yourself -what were the things she wanted changed I HAVE CHANGED THEM -Were you the problem or was the situation your family was in the problem NOT A CLEAR LINE; I WAS THE BIGGER PART THOUGH -was she always perfect OF COURSE NOT AND SHE REALIZES IT -did your problems warrant this kind of treatment YES; THEY WERE BAD -can yo reconcile knowing she has been with another man I HAVE BEEN WITH ANOTHER WOMAN SO IT MAKES IT MUCH EASIER. -is she willing to make any changes YES, SHE HAS BEGUN TO -is she willing to accept any responsibility YES, SHE HAS
Simplycaroline Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 She asked me to change a 1000 times while we were married and I never did; she even threatened to leave if i didn't change and I never did. I'll take my share of the blame. As for being second choice -- this guy would leave his wife for her without question (she has told him not to out of fear she may not want him long term or because she may want to try to recncile) and yet she still wants to try to reconcile. While I do believe she is more in love with the idea of him and the fantasy of him right now at this moment, I do believe that she does truly love me. Fact is she is tormented by the fact that she met him and has tried breaking it off several times to reconcile with me -- not your typical "second choice" behavior I'd like to believe. This doctor I am sure is breaching ethics by having an affair with your wife and if this went to court I am sure that he would probably lose his liciense if not his marriage and children. Your wife is a great sales woman. She is manipulative and a bully. She has you so convinced that you are ar fault for her sleeping with another man and in your ill state of mind you believe it. Look it is commendable to take responsibility for yourself and your actions but when you are in a marriage it takes two to make it succeed or fail. It sounds to me that she wants her cake and wants to eat it too. Let her have the whole cake and bake your own.
noforgiveness Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Does the doctor's wife know about the affair? If not I would inform her. That will either put an end to the affair and he will choose his wife or it will push them closer together. Either way your wife will be off the fence. What do you think about a married woman of 4 sleeping with a married man? Stop blaming yourself. What she is doing is deplorable.
Author exriguy Posted September 25, 2008 Author Posted September 25, 2008 Wow, sounds like I am an ass for trying so hard to keep her. I am basically in a competition for her love with a married doctor who wants to leave his wife for her (so he says -- but he is a troll and my wife is hot so this is likely a big upgrade). She has no plans of shutting it down with him anytime soon as far as I can tell and relishes the competition. The only reason that I am such a mess is because I do take much of the responsibility for this mess and regret screwing up so bad. Cany you get someone to fall back in love with you? As to revenge against the doctor -- I am a lawyer myself -- that plan is well laid out for when I feel like doing it -- including PI tape of him and her at a hotel, having fully researched medical ethical laws, and will put pressure on his biz partners because he has had sex with my wife after hours in his office etc. to boot! As to my legal rights -- not an issue, we are inked on a legal separation already effective last week. Problem is, I still love her and it kills me to see her with him or anyone else for that matter. I am heartbroken and can't see or think clearly and find myself making promises and doing/saying things that I know I'll regret but can't seem to stop myself. Fact is she changes her mind daily as well and has no idea what she wants.
carhill Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Still a good idea to engage a matrimonial lawyer IMO. From the recitation, I'll assume you live in a no-fault state and do not have a pre-nup. From reading the last posting, this will end badly. You don't think it will and you think you have it figured out, but it will. I'm sorry to say that I'll tell you why. You want to win. That's the mistake. There are no winners here, only losers and varying levels of losing, and please watch out for your children.
lkjh Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 I think its time you man up a little because you are being walked all over right now!
Author exriguy Posted September 26, 2008 Author Posted September 26, 2008 I think last night was the last straw for me. She told me that she simply doesnt ;ove me anymore and is deeply in love with him, however she knows she can't be with him. She still wants to date though and feels like she "could be happy with me" though she would likely only be staying for the kids. Argh.
n9688m Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 I think last night was the last straw for me. She told me that she simply doesnt ;ove me anymore and is deeply in love with him, however she knows she can't be with him. She still wants to date though and feels like she "could be happy with me" though she would likely only be staying for the kids. Argh. Why does she say she married you in the first place? Is there some happy time to go back to or (like my STBXW) does it appear she simply married you without true romantic physical chemistry on her part?
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