Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 Gifts should be given and accepted freely. As long as it's not solely a one way street, it's all good. Equality is a double-edged sword. How far is each individual going to take it? I've been made to feel like the never-ending wallet before, so the last thing I want is to be considered as such to anyone else, or to be considered as such...period. No one wants to be taken advantage of.
mrsT Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Wait, isn't this question a set up? What man is going to answer, "Yes I feel emasculated when a woman pays?" It is a very leading question. How about this instead? "How do you feel when a woman pays?" Alternatively, try asking men what makes them feel emasculated. See if they'll give up the ghost. Hey men, what makes you feel emasculated???
Krajt Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Gifts should be given and accepted freely. As long as it's not solely a one way street, it's all good. Equality is a double-edged sword. How far is each individual going to take it? I've been made to feel like the never-ending wallet before, so the last thing I want is to be considered as such to anyone else, or to be considered as such...period. No one wants to be taken advantage of. I agree, I don't give gifts often only for special ocassions or when I am feeling very generous. I would have no problem if my girlfriend bought me a gift. I would be really made up, but I wouldn't feel obliged to go straight out and buy her something as a way of counter balancing things. A relationship is not an accountants book, and should not be treated with such contempt. Very true, but I think it is up to a person not to be taken advantage of in the first place. Honesty and openness spring to mind.
Krajt Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Wait, isn't this question a set up? What man is going to answer, "Yes I feel emasculated when a woman pays?" It is a very leading question. How about this instead? "How do you feel when a woman pays?" Alternatively, try asking men what makes them feel emasculated. See if they'll give up the ghost. Hey men, what makes you feel emasculated??? I would be annoyed if my girlfriend kept paying for meals, tickets for events, because I would feel as though I am just taking and not giving. I would feel indirectly selfish and it would raise questions to me about what I offer the relationship on an economic level. If a woman paid for me as a treat once in a while then I would not feel "emasculated", but I would to treat her at some other point in time too. What makes me feel emasculated is when I lose an arm wrestling contest to a woman.
Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 I agree, I don't give gifts often only for special ocassions or when I am feeling very generous. I would have no problem if my girlfriend bought me a gift. I would be really made up, but I wouldn't feel obliged to go straight out and buy her something as a way of counter balancing things. A relationship is not an accountants book, and should not be treated with such contempt. Very true, but I think it is up to a person not to be taken advantage of in the first place. Honesty and openness spring to mind. We agree. Where I have issues is the need to consider money the currency of "feeling special" in a relationship situation. Overall generosity is far more meaningful.
Nemo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Saying what you think you would feel makes for a pretty much worthless opinion. Emasculation happens, whether the guy will admit to it, or not. Nice try, but 99% of guys regularly emasculate, and the rest are liars.
Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 Saying what you think you would feel makes for a pretty much worthless opinion. Emasculation happens, whether the guy will admit to it, or not. Nice try, but 99% of guys regularly emasculate, and the rest are liars. So as a gay man, you understand the regular guy and what emasculates him?
Nemo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 So as a gay man, you understand the regular guy and what emasculates him? Twice as well as everybody else. Not that I get a swelled-up head about it, or anything.
Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 Twice as well as everybody else. Not that I get a swelled-up head about it, or anything. So if you're in a relationship and your b/f buys you a gift, do you feel emasculated? If your b/f insists you pay for everything, does this make you feel masculine? Btw, are you the masculine or feminine side of your boy-on-boy situations?
The Collector Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I can't remember ever feeling emasculated about anything.
Krajt Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 We agree. Where I have issues is the need to consider money the currency of "feeling special" in a relationship situation. Overall generosity is far more meaningful. Oh I agree, my problem is I am a try hard, I really do put 100% effort into a relationship, though I have been complacent lately (hangs head in shame) and I guess I try too much to make sure the relationship is a good natured one where both me and her happy. As I say I make sure there is no discontent in any part of the relationship and I try my best to be a good boyfriend, but I have a heck of a lot to learn. I try not to make money the currency of feeling special. I just want to be with my girlfriend and we can sit in a park for hours just talking and holding that will make me feel happy and special, she makes me feel special. Overall generosity? In what sense?
Krajt Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Saying what you think you would feel makes for a pretty much worthless opinion. Emasculation happens, whether the guy will admit to it, or not. Nice try, but 99% of guys regularly emasculate, and the rest are liars. What gutter ball. A complete over-generalisation of the male specie.
Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 Oh I agree, my problem is I am a try hard, I really do put 100% effort into a relationship, though I have been complacent lately (hangs head in shame) and I guess I try too much to make sure the relationship is a good natured one where both me and her happy. As I say I make sure there is no discontent in any part of the relationship and I try my best to be a good boyfriend, but I have a heck of a lot to learn. I try not to make money the currency of feeling special. I just want to be with my girlfriend and we can sit in a park for hours just talking and holding that will make me feel happy and special, she makes me feel special. Overall generosity? In what sense? That sounds really nice. Some of my best relationship moments have been sitting in silence or chatting, just enjoying each other's company within natural surroundings. When you remove monetary currency out of the equation, in that you're both contributing to maintain a healthy relationship, you're left with emotions (sex is tied in here too), time and effort. When someone gives and receives generously of/to themselves, it's a sign of an unselfish person. When one party starts saying/acting "me, me, me" v. "us", you're going to have some serious issues within an unbalanced relationship, unless you're both like that, then I guess these types of people can make it work. Not my idea of a good relationship though.
Nemo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I would warn you that you're straying a little from the topic, but then it is your thread. Shaddup Nemo! So if you're in a relationship and your b/f buys you a gift, do you feel emasculated? Sure. So I must then pull an even bigger, more expensive gift out of my arse, or prepare for massive shrinkage. If your b/f insists you pay for everything, does this make you feel masculine? He would never do that. His tool is on the line just as much as mine. It's a perpetual, see-sawing battle of the bulge. Btw, are you the masculine or feminine side of your boy-on-boy situations? Things are constantly in a state of flux. I always prefer to be on top, but life seems to have a way of getting even.
Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 I can see your confusion Nemo. Good luck with that! So Nemo feels emasculated. Anyone else feel emasculated or not?
Nemo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Guys will never admit to it. Never, ever, ever. That just exacerbates their problem. Guys know that the best thing to do is suffer in silence, or else prepare to embrace a very limp future. Denial somehow makes them feel stronger, but it's the weakest possible act of rebellion.
Author Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 So Nemo, are you suggesting that the best thing that women could do to not emasculate men, is to expect them to pay for everything for the entire length of the relationship, regardless of duration?
Krajt Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Guys will never admit to it. Never, ever, ever. That just exacerbates their problem. Guys know that the best thing to do is suffer in silence, or else prepare to embrace a very limp future. Denial somehow makes them feel stronger, but it's the weakest possible act of rebellion. You're right there are men who feel this way, but keeping what you have said in the discussion, I am not one of those. I feel emasculated when a girl beats me in an act of physical strength. I lost to a girl at Tennis before and I felt physically and mentally weak.
Nemo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I lost to a girl at Tennis Dude, I am so, so sorry. I hope it doesn't give you nightmares, because I'm not sure I could ever get over something like that. Anyway, if you need a hug, I'm here for you.
The Collector Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Guys will never admit to it. Never, ever, ever. That just exacerbates their problem. Guys know that the best thing to do is suffer in silence, or else prepare to embrace a very limp future. Denial somehow makes them feel stronger, but it's the weakest possible act of rebellion. How do you define masculinity and when by that definition might I feel it threatened? I can be annoyed by women, I can be upset by their actions, I am not a robot. But I never feel 'less of a man', whatever that means.
Krajt Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Dude, I am so, so sorry. I hope it doesn't give you nightmares, because I'm not sure I could ever get over something like that. Anyway, if you need a hug, I'm here for you. I love the sarcasm! It was when I was younger, I still get mocked about it now. It was so humiliating, boys aren't supposed to be out muscled by a woman unless she is a tom-boy.
Nemo Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 But I never feel Dude, you're heaping on the denial just a little too liberally. Remember, you want it to be believable. To some. At least.
Trimmer Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Nice try, but 99% of guys regularly emasculate, and the rest are liars. Now I'm confused as to whether you are attempting humor with a cute pun on "masturbate" or whether you are trying to be serious. If the former, then you are only confusing the issue. If the latter, "to emasculate" is something done TO a man, not something a man does to himself. You have such a witty sense of humor that when a statement like this is ambiguous, I don't know whether you intended it seriously. Guys will never admit to it. Never, ever, ever. That just exacerbates their problem. Guys know that the best thing to do is suffer in silence, or else prepare to embrace a very limp future. I don't agree. I felt completely emasculated when my wife went out and cheated on me. I thought I recovered from that, but then 10 years later, she left me, apparently for another man (although she claims blah blah blah...) I have no problem admitting to myself or proclaiming to you that these events were totally emasculating, and I had to do a fair amount of work to recover from that, and to claim my identity as a man back for myself. When my ex would take the kids out to do an activity with her new man, I would see them as a kind of a family unit, and him in a kind of a parental/father role - that was completely emasculating, too. I have also worked hard to get past that, and again, to reclaim my role as father, etc. Another time - a more minor example - with just a simple, tossed-off comment, she made me the butt of a joke when we were in the group of people. It was a comment that, on the surface, just seemed to the others in the group like a funny dig, but unknown to them it also hit me at a deeper level that only she had access to. I don't think she intended it to sting quite so deeply, but that made me feel emasculated. Again I have no problem admitting it to myself or you. Now having freely admitted those emasculating examples, I will bring it back to the specific question in the OP, and repeat my feeling that - based on experience, not what "I think I would feel..." - our sharing expenses through the courting part of our relationship did not make me feel emasculated. It was just not an issue that related to my identity as a man. I'm not claiming everyone will or should feel this way, but I don't agree that "Guys will never admit to it. Never, ever, ever." Some won't, certainly, but not all are in denial.
The Collector Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Dude, you're heaping on the denial just a little too liberally. Remember, you want it to be believable. To some. At least. It wasn't a rhetorical question I asked. I can't be bothered to rephrase it if you can't be honest enough to answer it.
Recommended Posts