4givrnt4gtr Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 So I was reading about the thread regarding about whether men should pay for dates etc. I was actually looking for that thread because my SO and I had a conversation that rather upset me. I was telling him how my dad had invited me and my sister out for lunch and then asked us to split the bill. Had I known I would have turned down the offer for lunch as I had no money. He said it was ok and that I owed him the meal plus something else he had gotten for my cat a while back (and for which he still had the receipt) I was rather surpised about that so i mentioned it to my bf He said that I should never expect anyone to pay for my meals and in that he always picks up the tab for his parents. Then went onto say how its not fair that women always want their men to pay. That on first dates its not fair since you dont know if you will be seeing each other again. He went on and on about that and kinda hinted that he would like us to split the bills during meals etc. Now, keep in mind that he makes 100k, while im a grad student and work part time. Granted he has mortgage bills etc but still, i got rent and car payments as well. Anyway, so i was trying to come to terms with those statements and then he continued telling me how when his brother come to visit he pays for all his brother drinks if they go out etc and his brother never offer to help. That although he never tells his brother that it bothers him, he does gripe about it to his mom. This whole conversation made me feel that im dating a cheapskate. It kinda made me nervous...but at the same time made me wonder if maybe im too spoiled and expect people to take care of me...i dont know. What do you think?
westernxer Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I think you're surrounded by cheapskates.
Angel1111 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 First of all, I wouldn't date a guy who invited me on a date and expected me to pay half. That's such crap. Maybe it's because I'm from the South but most men I know just consider it good manners to pay whenever a woman is present (the exception would be a group of friends out at lunch or at a bar, something like that). But a lot of the men I've known are equally from the North and South. It's not that it's expected but it's always done. Whenever I went out to eat with my parents, my dad always paid, even though I offered. I will say that you should never go somewhere if you can't afford to without first letting the person know that. If you say, "No I can't really afford lunch right now," and they don't offer to buy, fine - don't go. But if you say that and they offer buy, then go. Just don't expect it. But this is not a conversation you should need to have with your bf. I think you're dating a guy whose values conflict with yours. I think men should treat a woman like a lady. Period. Forget all this equal rights stuff because that only has to do with voting, jobs and salary - not relationships. The only thing I agree with is that his brother should buy his brother drinks - but there's a different code between men. You bf should never put you in that category. A man in love wants to do things for a woman, wants to give things to her. What you're wanting is a good old fashioned love affair and he's turning it into a calculation sheet. No your not spoiled, you just have different expectations.
Jilly Bean Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Wow. You're really surrounded by the cheapies! I have never ONCE in my life had a guy ask, or even insinuate I should pay on a date. EVER. But then again, I tend to date high quality men who don't have the values of those who think women should fork over cash. Even when I have dated guys who didn't earn a lot, they still never asked me to pay for a date. I think real men have too much pride and self-respect for this. So, on the dating front, I suggest dating a better class of men. They won't bring up such absurdities. As far as Dad - I imagine his cheapness doesn't come as a surprise. Just a pretty tacky maneuver, nonetheless. Honestly, no one in my world ever makes issues out of money, or keeps receipts or score of who paid for what, and who owes whom. I find all of these threads on this topic to be so foreign. I cant imagine what kind of people behave like this...
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 No matter how much your b/f makes, this is his money, not shared resources unless the two of you are living together and have pooled all your funds in a common-law situation. As for dinners or lunches out with my parents, the kids always pay. We all do okay for ourselves so it's the least we could do to spoil them back. Raising children can't be an easy task and is many times thankless.
Author 4givrnt4gtr Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 Well he didnt actually say "you should pay your half" but he was more like "oh if couples paid half and half a lot more things could be done" etc. Sorta gave me the understanding he wanted me to pay for my half of whatever we were doing. I may be old fashioned, but to me, when a guy pays for whatever he suggests we do makes me feel like first, he appreciates my company and is treating me to whatever it is he thinks we should do. Second, when I ask someone to have dinner with me or something like that I know Ill be paying, hence the INVITATION He didnt see it that way, and it made me feel like we have very different views about money. I see it as mean that I dont mind using to treat the people I love. (aka take my brother and his family out to dinner once in a while without resenting it) while he resents having to use it for something other than what he personally wants. Would you guys break up with someone over these kinds of issues? (weve been dating for a year and a few months, and have talked about marriage...but these things make me nervous)
Author 4givrnt4gtr Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 No matter how much your b/f makes, this is his money, not shared resources unless the two of you are living together and have pooled all your funds in a common-law situation. As for dinners or lunches out with my parents, the kids always pay. We all do okay for ourselves so it's the least we could do to spoil them back. Raising children can't be an easy task and is many times thankless. You know, he did mentioned something about that, that if and when he got married it would be a different story but that while dating he couldnt understand why the woman cant pay her half... I dont know, to me it just sounds so....cold and...calculative.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 You know, he did mentioned something about that, that if and when he got married it would be a different story but that while dating he couldnt understand why the woman cant pay her half... I dont know, to me it just sounds so....cold and...calculative. No one, male or female, likes to feel that someone is taking advantage of them.
Author 4givrnt4gtr Posted September 23, 2008 Author Posted September 23, 2008 No one, male or female, likes to feel that someone is taking advantage of them. So you think he might be feeling like im taking advantage of him because i dont pay for dates???
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 So you think he might be feeling like im taking advantage of him because i dont pay for dates??? Put yourself in his shoes. If he relied on you to pay for everything, how would you feel?
Angel1111 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Put yourself in his shoes. If he relied on you to pay for everything, how would you feel? As John Gray says, the woman is a jewel to the man and should be treated that way. Most women want to be treated this way, and it's usually a man's instinct to treat her like a jewel when he's really in love with her. It's not about the money, it's about the spirit behind what he's saying.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 As John Gray says, the woman is a jewel to the man and should be treated that way. Most women want to be treated this way, and it's usually a man's instinct to treat her like a jewel when he's really in love with her. It's not about the money, it's about the spirit behind what he's saying. How do you treat your men? Do you lavish them with gifts and services too? Do you make them feel as special as you need them to make you feel?
Jilly Bean Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 As John Gray says, the woman is a jewel to the man and should be treated that way. Most women want to be treated this way, and it's usually a man's instinct to treat her like a jewel when he's really in love with her. It's not about the money, it's about the spirit behind what he's saying. Im a huge JG fan. He rocks, and he is SO right on. Did you read MV On A Date? Excellent!
Angel1111 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 How do you treat your men? Do you lavish them with gifts and services too? Do you make them feel as special as you need them to make you feel? People keep trying to equalize things in the sense that women should do what men do. I wish everyone would get over this. No, a woman should not lavish a man with gifts. Do I make a man feel special - darn right. He thinks he's the king of the world when he's with me. But I do not lavish a man with gifts, I lavish him with my love and kindness because that's part of the jewel. It's a man's nature to want to give, it's a woman's nature to receive. Stop trying to neutralize these things by making them equal. Theyre not. Just like when it usually backfires when a woman asks a man on a date. Most men don't like this - they want to pursue. Women take something away from them when they do that. Women are not the purusers. Each sex has their own gift that compliments the other. I respect the nature of men and women.
Angel1111 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Im a huge JG fan. He rocks, and he is SO right on. Did you read MV On A Date? Excellent! Yes, he's so on-target that's it's almost scary. Everyone should read 'Mars and Venus on a Date' - even married people. That was one of the most excellent books I've ever read on the dynamics between men and women.
Jilly Bean Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Yes, he's so on-target that's it's almost scary. Everyone should read 'Mars and Venus on a Date' - even married people. That was one of the most excellent books I've ever read on the dynamics between men and women. When I read it, it was like everything finally made sense. It's so sad to me to see all these women that continue to devalue themselves by chasing men, by paying for dates, and then still wonder why they aren't getting what they want out of relationships. 4 - read the book. It will change your life. In a GOOD way.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 People keep trying to equalize things in the sense that women should do what men do. I wish everyone would get over this. No, a woman should not lavish a man with gifts. Do I make a man feel special - darn right. He thinks he's the king of the world when he's with me. But I do not lavish a man with gifts, I lavish him with my love and kindness because that's part of the jewel. It's a man's nature to want to give, it's a woman's nature to receive. Stop trying to neutralize these things by making them equal. Theyre not. Just like when it usually backfires when a woman asks a man on a date. Most men don't like this - they want to pursue. Women take something away from them when they do that. Women are not the purusers. Each sex has their own gift that compliments the other. I respect the nature of men and women. So that means you believe in a traditional marriage, where the woman stays home and has kids and takes care of all his domestic needs, right?
Angel1111 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 So that means you believe in a traditional marriage, where the woman stays home and has kids and takes care of all his domestic needs, right? I'll keep saying this until someone actually listens. Equal rights has nothing to do with romantic relationships. It has to do with working, voting, salary. If a woman chooses to work that's great. If she wants to chase a man, good luck.
almost famous Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I find all of these threads on this topic to be so foreign. I cant imagine what kind of people behave like this... Apparently male cheapskates are all the rage in Sweden and they have all kinds of "charming" conversations at the end of dates about why women should pay.
almost famous Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Put yourself in his shoes. If he relied on you to pay for everything, how would you feel? He makes $100,000. She's a starving college student.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I'll keep saying this until someone actually listens. Equal rights has nothing to do with romantic relationships. It has to do with working, voting, salary. If a woman chooses to work that's great. If she wants to chase a man, good luck. Who said anything about chasing a man? I've never pursued or asked a single man out in my life. No need to. What I do believe is that women can't expect to be treated like princesses all their lives. What man is going to put up with that, beyond the ones who want to be sugar daddies?
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 He makes $100,000. She's a starving college student. So what? Are they married? What does she give in return? Does she do his domestic duties like a SAHM? Does she give him services rendered? Tell me how equitable this could possibly be?
almost famous Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I guess she needs to tell him she can't afford to go out then. Who says everything has to be 50/50? He is getting the pleasure of dating her, while also knowing that she has very, very limited resources.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 I guess she needs to tell him she can't afford to go out then. That's more reasonable or she can give him the option to do something that costs less, something she can afford. Maybe she can anty up sometimes too. Spoiling should go two ways.
Angel1111 Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 When I read it, it was like everything finally made sense. It's so sad to me to see all these women that continue to devalue themselves by chasing men, by paying for dates, and then still wonder why they aren't getting what they want out of relationships. 4 - read the book. It will change your life. In a GOOD way. There are 3 things that should be required in high schools - what I call The Big 3 - relationships, money,and raising children. As far as I'm concerned, the expert on relationships is John Gray, and the expert on money is Dave Ramsey. If the theories and principles from these people were taught, the world would be a different place. If you're an adult, read John Gray's books and take Dave Ramsey's 13-wk financial course. They'll both change your lives. (I don't know any experts on raising children.)
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