Isolde Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 (I'm not really talking about myself, though I guess I would be considered attractive by many (certainly not all) guys). I've noticed that there are a surprising number of really nice, "successful" but not power hungry, pretty girls who face constant rejection from guys they like. What I've noticed these girls have in common is that they're all kind, considerate of others, and attractive without having to be "hot" and "sexy" and the center of attention. I can name 2 off the top of my head who fit these criteria: an old school friend of mine and a college friend of my sister's. As well as of course many girls on this board. All serially single but not crazy prudes. In fact many of them love sexual relationships. They just don't want to date the first guy that likes them. Judging by what guys say they want, these girls should be popular with men. But they're not. Is it possible that the "nice guy" syndrome applies to women also?
Jilly Bean Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I think a lot of guys assume intelligent, sexy women are already taken. And there's also the intimidation theory.
marlena Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Is it possible that the "nice guy" syndrome applies to women also? In my opinion, it most certainly is. Many men just don't like "nice" girls.
Tomcat33 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Of course it can apply to women too, women that are too nice are not attractive/exciting just as men that are too nice are not as attractive/exciting. It's all in moderation. The right balance is what makes for good attraction. The other option is that maybe some of the women you think are really nice, are not that nice in rels. Or that maybe all these serially single women are all going for the same types of guys, guys that can have their pick so they rule themselves out of being with someone because they all compete for the same types. Can you please define "serially single?" You mentioned women on here, are there women here that have been single for years? I don't think I know of many and I have been around here for a while...? When I think of someone who is serially single I would think someone that has not had a rel in years or ever even.
Balthazar Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Maybe these women are not as attractive as you think they are. Women are rarely good judges of how attractive other women are to men. I find that truly attractive women are rarely single; in fact they usually have many men pursuing them and usually ascribe to the monkey theory.
ed-205 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I can offer a couple of opinions on this myself. I have been friends with a number of very attractive women, and have listened to them complain about this very issue. "Why to all the plain girls get all the guys? Why doesn't anyone ask *me* out?" In response, I would offer to take them to a movie and dinner, and they would always laugh, and remind me that I was a "nice guy", and how much they valued our *Special Friendship*... The problem was that a lot of these girls really liked me, and enjoyed spending time with me, but I was just too much of a Dork for them to seriously consider me for an actual date, and nothing mentally castrates a guy like the "Special Friend" BS. Answer #1 - Attractive people don't want to be seen with anyone they don't think is at least as attractive as they are. Their friends keep telling them "You can do better than that!", and they let themselves believe it. The better looking a person is, the higher they have to aim, and the more difficult it is to find someone *suitable* among the dozens who would be flattered to have just one chance with them. Answer #2 - For that same reason, "Nice Guys" won't bother asking out anyone who appears too attractive. Their resources are too limited to waste on someone who is obviously out of their league, and especially so if it only adds their name to another "Special Friend" dance card. So, they go for the ones they think they might actually have a chance with - the "plain" ones. Like the song goes: http://www.lyricsdownload.com/jimmy-soul-happy-for-the-rest-of-your-life-lyrics.html And, it's a shame. The only really attractive girls I dated were the ones that mutual friends assured me had a genuine interest in me, otherwise I'd have never asked them out to begin with.
paddington bear Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Maybe these women are not as attractive as you think they are. Women are rarely good judges of how attractive other women are to men. I find that truly attractive women are rarely single; in fact they usually have many men pursuing them and usually ascribe to the monkey theory. What's the monkey theory??? I do think women suffer from nice girl syndrome. I am one of them!! On nights out with male friends they will sometimes point out some girl who looks 'hot' whereas I think she looks like a nasty piece of work - I'm not talking how beautiful here, I'm talking more of facial expressions, haughtiness. I think non-nice girls somehow radiate sex. Men can see it, women cannot. There's been many a time when me and friends have wondered just what that girl has to make guys run after her, because we can't see it.
Ruby Slippers Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I have a couple of friends (acquaintances, really) who are attractive but don't attract many men. One in particular is, I'm sorry to say, just kind of a blah person. She has no compelling interests. She's merely existing. She has a pretty good life on paper, and makes a decent amount of money, but she spends it all on... meaningless junk. She just doesn't have that joie de vivre.
ed-205 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I have a couple of friends (acquaintances, really) who are attractive but don't attract many men. One in particular is, I'm sorry to say, just kind of a blah person. She has no compelling interests. She's merely existing. She has a pretty good life on paper, and makes a decent amount of money, but she spends it all on... meaningless junk. She just doesn't have that joie de vivre. ...I think you're spot-on with that! The old saying is that Beauty is only skin deep, but I have to paraphrase that a bit and say that True Beauty goes all the way to the core. The ones who can talk and laugh, have a passion for something they believe in, and look for those same traits in others. The ones who can go to a concert and enjoy the music without worrying about what the other women are wearing. The ones who can talk intelligently about a topic without being afraid of sounding too "brainy". The ones who enjoy riding motorcycles and don't care that the wind/helmet messes up their hair... That, to me, is the difference between an attractive woman and a Beautiful one!
cutegirl Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 In my opinion, it most certainly is. Many men just don't like "nice" girls. Why is this? is it because "not nice girls" radiate sex like Paddington Bear was saying? Are nice girls just too cold sexually? Is it cause men think bad girls are more "wild"?
Krajt Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I think a lot of guys assume intelligent, sexy women are already taken. And there's also the intimidation theory. Intelligent, sexy women are usually taken. They are usually taken by equally intelligent and handsome men. In my opinion, it most certainly is. Many men just don't like "nice" girls. That's not true, my girlfriend is nice, but she also stands her ground, she isn't afraid retaliate. There needs be a balance between nice and not being taken for a ride and she does this well enough which is one of the reasons I respect her.
GoodOnPaper Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Why is this? is it because "not nice girls" radiate sex like Paddington Bear was saying? Are nice girls just too cold sexually? Is it cause men think bad girls are more "wild"? Pretty much. I wouldn't necessarily label "nice girls" as "cold" sexually, but they probably have difficulty sending out the right flirting cues. Just like we "nice guys" would have difficulty reading them, anyway! I could never attract the "bad girls", so in my single days, I had hopes of finding a woman who was nice and sweet on the outside but a wildcat in bed. I got the first part, but unfortunately, she's even "nicer" in bed.
vonerik012 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I was talking to a different girl I met at the grocery store last night. She is 33. We talked on and off for about a year, but have yet to go out. She is single, never married, no kids. She is attractive, We were talking about relationships, and her ex is a married/separated doctor.He has 2 kids. She over looked a lot to be with him (she said she would never dated a separated guy, or guy with kids) basically because he is a M.D. She spent 2 years with him, until he decided he wants to work things out with his wife. I have found many very attractive women find themselves in situations like the above. They are asked out by some with a high status, and believe they can win him away from their wife, ex wife, etc, and spend years trying in the process. I dated another women who had a dog named Countach. Very attractive. I asked why her dog was named that, and it turns out because her ex had a Lamborghini Countach. He was also married, and her boss. She was with him off and on for 5 years. I think many very attractive women go for money first, and then everything else secondly. Unfortunately many of the men with lots of money are already married, or players, etc so they run into that often.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Yes, I think there is the same situation with nice girls/nice guys. Here is the deal. We all want someone who is ideally *nice*. However, when it comes to relationships it takes so much more then being *nice*. Yes, I have passed up on *nice* guys and I have been passed up even though I am *nice*. Sometimes it is frustrating. Sometimes I get it because being *nice* isn't enough and to be honest, it really shouldn't be a enough. So I got to say when it is girls or guys that complain about how nice they are and how they fail with relationships, it riles me up. And believe me, I have been on both ends of the spectrums. Who of us doesn't want more then someone who is *nice*? We commplain about how nice we are but we expect more out of a partner then just nice. The bad girls or guys do elicit certain stronger emotions that can be mistaken for a hightened connection. The key is being the person you are but still coming off as exciting and fresh. If I have to say nice one more time I am going to vomit.
stillafool Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Maybe these women are not as attractive as you think they are. Women are rarely good judges of how attractive other women are to men. I find that truly attractive women are rarely single; in fact they usually have many men pursuing them and usually ascribe to the monkey theory. I agree Balthazar and the rest are single because they want to be!
Lizzie60 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 (I'm not really talking about myself, though I guess I would be considered attractive by many (certainly not all) guys). I've noticed that there are a surprising number of really nice, "successful" but not power hungry, pretty girls who face constant rejection from guys they like. What I've noticed these girls have in common is that they're all kind, considerate of others, and attractive without having to be "hot" and "sexy" and the center of attention. I can name 2 off the top of my head who fit these criteria: an old school friend of mine and a college friend of my sister's. As well as of course many girls on this board. All serially single but not crazy prudes. In fact many of them love sexual relationships. They just don't want to date the first guy that likes them. Judging by what guys say they want, these girls should be popular with men. But they're not. Is it possible that the "nice guy" syndrome applies to women also? Yes I would think that the 'nice guy' syndrome applies to women as well... I am quite attractive and I have no problem on the dating scene or to get a man.. but I am not the 'nice girl' .. I am more the biotch type.. it works..
Jersey Shortie Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Maybe these women are not as attractive as you think they are. Women are rarely good judges of how attractive other women are to men. I find that truly attractive women are rarely single; in fact they usually have many men pursuing them and usually ascribe to the monkey theory. I think women are good judges of how attractive other women are to men. They just hide behind catty comments sometimes. I do disagree with your posting. I have seen and heard very attractive women complain about not getting asked out and have heard and seen somewhat attractive women to average ones have men chasing them. Sometimes things really are about your attitude and what you attract. I have seen women who are much less attractive them myself with boyfriends and often wondered what I was doing wrong. And I am sorry but the idea that "all the good ones are taken" is only what single men and women tell themselves to feel better about their own single state. I am single right now and do not believe al lthe good ones are taken, for men or women. It's not even logical to think that they are. Because at one point, those people in relationships were once single. And if you think about the rate of divorce and broken relationships, if all the good ones were taken, there would be less dirvorce and broken relationships. Thank you.
cutegirl Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 The bad girls or guys do elicit certain stronger emotions that can be mistaken for a hightened connection. I find this sentence very interesting... so is it seems that the "bad girl" is more exciting and therefore the guy feels more of a connection with her whereas the "good girl" is perceived as dull and boring?? I am just wondering, which specific emotions or what kind of emotions does a bad girl elicit that a good girl doesn't? I also think that sometimes guys think they can change a bad girl whereas a good girl doesn't need changing. Some guys are weird like that and think they can "help change" a woman. Also, I don't think men should assume that all good girls are boring in bed, some could be wildcats too, it's just that some are more shy and demure in real life...
Jersey Shortie Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 It's the White Knight snydrome. I don't think men want to change women so much as they want to rescue them. Women are more prone to wanting to change a guy. I think the saying is men want to be needed (makes him feel useful) and women want to be wanted (makes her feel desired and special). I think it's the overall excitement and heart pumping adreline that a bad girl can get from a guy over a good girl. Some men like a challenge. Not all men are like this of course but enough for *nice girls * to see a common problem.
cutegirl Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I read this book http://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Love-Bitches-Dreamgirl/dp/1580627560/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222094543&sr=8-1 That book is more about teaching women to be more confident, assertive, not too much of a doormat etc etc I have noticed that some guys like women who are BEYOND that tho, women who are beyond just being confident and assertive... but instead women who manipulate them, cheat on them or talk to other men behind their backs, even grown women who still start physical fights with other women, just troublemakers... I wonder what that is all about? I guess that gets the adrenaline going and causes excitement...?
pandagirl Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I've noticed that there are a surprising number of really nice, "successful" but not power hungry, pretty girls who face constant rejection from guys they like. What I've noticed these girls have in common is that they're all kind, considerate of others, and attractive without having to be "hot" and "sexy" and the center of attention. I pretty much fit into this category. I don't think I'm beautiful or pretty, but people tell me I am attractive. I am way too considerate and nice. The last guy I dated said to me when he ended things: "I finally found a nice girl. It makes me think something is wrong with me that I don't like you more." ha!
Author Isolde Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 Balthazar: I'm beginning to wonder if your theory might be true. Is it possible that some of the pretty girls I'm talking about might not be attractive to men because pretty and attractive are two different things... hmm, yeah, that makes sense. But these girls should still be able to find relationships given that so many unattractive women are in relationships, yeah? I can't tell you how many times people have told me something like "You have all these things going for you, I'm surprised more guys aren't after you". Grr thats annoying And I'm not a pushover at all. I can be VERY firm, opinionated, disagree politely, etc, there's a lot more than just sweetness in me. Men look at me constantly when I'm walking around or when I'm in bars... they just don't seem to see me as "go for her" material. Yes I personally am not only serially single but have never been in a serious relationship because guys I feel attraction to usually just want me for sex and I can't handle casual sex.
carhill Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I think a lot of guys assume intelligent, sexy women are already taken. And there's also the intimidation theory. I don't assume (purely theoretically ), but usually that is the case. Intimidation is/has been a factor, but I find that lessened by age. I happen to know three of my wife's girlfriends pretty well, two of which are single; one of which is married. IME, the single ones, even though quite beautiful physically and both street smart and book smart, just don't seem to have that third dimension (to me anyway). The married one is more raw and emotional and not as "put together", even though she's equally as intelligent and beautiful physically as the others. Hence, I tend to gravitate more to her and could see the same dynamic in a single/single situation. IMO, it's the signals people send out. Openness, receptiveness, emotional/spiritual/sexual hunger, whatever you want to call it. It's a powerful force. I've also heard these same single girlfriends complain just like the OP is doing here. We're all in our 40's so plenty of life experience under everyone's belts, including marriages, etc. Interesting stuff
Trialbyfire Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 A few questions to run through: What kind of signals are these women giving to men they find attractive?Do men find them interesting and easy to talk to?Are they demanding more than what they can bring to the table?Are they fun to be with, if you're a man?Are they the type that looks for a relationship, rather than appreciates the man? This type can cause men to run away...FAST. No matter at what age you are, there are available and emotionally healthy men around.
carhill Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I'll answer, based on my above example: 1. IME, and I've seen the dynamic with my eyes, they have no problem attracting men. Bees to honey 2. Overhearing conversations, I would say such is effortless and engaging. They're easy to get along with, at least superficially. 3. IMO, no. Both are professionals. One is a nurse. The other owns a marketing business. Both are generous. Both have adult children. 4. Both tend to be a bit serious IME, but not inappropriately so. Fun? I don't know. They don't find me attractive, so I can't comment 5. One has been divorced for a few years, the other many; no significant LTR's that they've talked about. Both appear to "like" men and appreciate their assets. The latter (the business owner) appears to be more demonstrably appreciative of a man, though that is merely my impression. The former, due to still sharing custody of her minor children with her ex, perhaps has a different perspective. I would agree that there are plenty of men around who are healthy and appreciate a good woman in their lives. IMO, it comes down to those subtle signals we all send out. In my example, if single, I'm in no way saying my "choice" would be a healthy one, but it is a dynamic I recognize, so shared for purposes of insight
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