underpants Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 Let us skip all the gray areas and just get to it, shall we. I am a time saver. The purposes for lying (even by omission) are for either a malice attempt to knowingly mislead another. Or a cowardly attempt to put off a known truth of one party. My understanding now is that perhaps the approaches to lies maybe different, and no one is really better then the other. They eventually end up at the same destination. Do they not? Confronted with the truth. Is there really a difference? When you boil all the gray away, a LIE, is a LIE, is a LIE. No? ...discuss.
johan Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 You didn't ask him if you looked fat in that outfit did you?! Overall, I agree with you, Underpants. I think the truth always comes out. It's a better policy to just put the truth on the table and deal with it up front. Some people are just scared to deal with things up front. I don't necessarily think someone who is habitually honest is morally superior to someone who attempts to lie. They are just better decision makers.
Author underpants Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 You didn't ask him if you looked fat in that outfit did you?! Overall, I agree with you, Underpants. I think the truth always comes out. It's a better policy to just put the truth on the table and deal with it up front. Some people are just scared to deal with things up front. I don't necessarily think someone who is habitually honest is morally superior to someone who attempts to lie. They are just better decision makers. Well, firstly. I think I look fat in all of my outfits so I would never put someone in that position. The scared thing is what I got, coupled with an admission. I will concede that the brutal truth can hurt just as much as a lie. I have been on both sides of this and am actually for the first time in my life finding my own stance on the matter. Personally, I feel more comfortable on the side of honesty. I wish he would have felt the same. You can be kind and honest.
johan Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Sounds like it really upset you, underpants. Are you ok?
Jilly Bean Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Unders - I think there's a big difference between lying, and an omission of truth. There are certain things I don't like to share that are totally non-impactful to new relationships/friendships, so if I am not directly asked, I won't volunteer. And I don't consider that a lie. Now, if I were dating someone, and didn't ask him directly if he were married or had kids, and he never confessed these truths, I would consider this a lie, as that is something that would impact our relationship. BUT, I also wouldn't jump to share details of my past that aren't relevant in the present unless asked. I think we're all allowed a pass on certain things...
Author underpants Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 Sounds like it really upset you, underpants. Are you ok? We shall see? Not nice, what he did. Not nice. It's cool, it has to be. What is done is done. Maybe he is just not for me.
Tomcat33 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 People can't handle straight up raw honesty no matter how much the truth is requested, lies, white lies, ommissions of truth exist for a reason. I would say this topic is worth debating but I'd be lieing. Figure out what % of truth vs lie intake works for you and make the best of it. Honesty doesn't exist, just varying degrees of washed down truths.
Author underpants Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 I would consider this a lie, as that is something that would impact our relationship. I don't want to talk about the lie, trust me, it was SIGNIFICANT. There is definately a impact. I have a ton of respect for him as a person, but I now have been forced to rethink if I want to continue to be involved with him. It is that big of a lie. I'm trying to be cool. This just happened today.
Jilly Bean Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I don't want to talk about the lie, trust me, it was SIGNIFICANT. There is definately a impact. I have a ton of respect for him as a person, but I know have been forced to rethink if I want to continue to be involved with him. It is that big of a lie. I'm trying to be cool. This just happened today. Im sorry, I initially took this as a generic question, but now I realize it is quite personal. Well, if it is a big lie, and something that you feel should have been disclosed earlier, or that you cant accept, then I dont see how you can (or should) be cool. How long have you been dating?
johan Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Here's one thing to keep in mind. People don't lie unless there is something they care about to protect. I'm sure that in your case it is you he cares about. You might find that that doesn't excuse what happened. But if you choose to overlook it, you might be ignoring something very important.
Tomcat33 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Woops I thought it was general discussion as well, didn't realise it was personal.
Art_Critic Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Unders.. does he have a good reason that he lied ? in other words.. Was he lying to stop from hurting someone ? I personally try to live a life of the golden rule.. it doesn't always work out that way though. Sometimes however a white lie needs to be told to stop from hurting another person.. I have been lied to hugely myself by someone I was dating.. but she lied about a lot of things and later learned she couldn't tell the truth if she tried..
Author underpants Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 Roughly 8 months. He is a great guy. However, he has some issues. Heck, we all do. That is why I find it so disconcerting that he felt the need to lie about something he knew could hurt me so very much, for so very long. He made the choice by omitting the truth. I told him I needed to think about this. So far he is respecting this. His lies, even if by omission come from what I would consider the scared direction. As I said, all lies end up at the same place. I do recall in month 3 sitting him down in my kitchen and asking directly if there was anything I needed to know beyond the uncomfortable truths he told me at that time. That undisclosure is now compounded in my brain. I wish him no malice, I just need to figure out how to properly wiggle out of this. I think I would rather be alone.
westernxer Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Is it wrong when parents lie to children to preserve their innocence?
Trialbyfire Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Is it wrong when parents lie to children to preserve their innocence? unders is not a child and doesn't need her innocence protected. What she needs is an honest partner who has sufficient respect and confidence in her ability to handle truths.
Author underpants Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 unders is not a child and doesn't need her innocence protected. What she needs is an honest partner who has sufficient respect and confidence in her ability to handle truths. Thanks. I wish he would have cared enough to grant me that. Jeez, I even asked early on.
Trialbyfire Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I've been in your shoes more than once. You know what to do, in that you have to weigh the positive in your relationship against this lie. Your vision of him has been sullied. He's human but you know that already. What's the likelihood that the issue he lied about, could recreate itself? What's the likelihood that he's lied about other things?
High Plains Drifter Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Is it wrong when parents lie to children to preserve their innocence? I hope you're not going to tell us there is no Tooth Fairy:mad: I've found that living a lie is difficult, but then often living with the truth is difficult....... Sometimes its best to pick the lesser of two evils.
Author underpants Posted September 22, 2008 Author Posted September 22, 2008 I think my switch flipped off. I feel nothing. This is a familiar void.
Jilly Bean Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I think my switch flipped off. I feel nothing. This is a familiar void. I can relate to that. When Baller pulled his engagement sham with me, it just killed everything inside, and I was just numb.
Trialbyfire Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 I think my switch flipped off. I feel nothing. This is a familiar void. Don't close down unders. You have to work through this.
djhall Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Is it wrong when parents lie to children to preserve their innocence? I think westernxer also thought this was a "generic" discussion about lying in general and not actually a reference to a specific offense. That was my first reaction to the OP too... Well, if the secret police came knocking on your door looking for Anne Frank, would it be wrong to lie to them? I'm glad I didn't post it though now that I've seen the direction the thread went.
Angel1111 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 There was a great documentary on cable once about lying. Basically everyone lies and most lies are not meant to harm, but to protect people - either themselves or someone else. There are lots of reasons why people lie but I don't think a single person can be accused of not doing it - either big or small. The best policy is to keep lies to a minimum and live your life in such a way that you don't feel the need to cover it up.
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