Does he really not have feelings for her/am I overreacting?

[OrangeKin]

I signed up just to ask this question. I suspected H of having an emotional affair not because of any physical signs, but this terrible twisting FEELING i got in my stomach when he casually mentioned his new friend after coming back from a long conference out of state. I was like, Why am I feeling this way? He's given me no reason to even think something's up. (He did not even mention she was a woman, just a "colleague" and I still felt my hair raise!)

 

Weeks later I get that same terrible feeling that drives me to look at his phone (I have never felt the need to do this before) while he was working on the car. He caught me taking his phone and hurried to clean off his hands before taking the phone from me. I was looking at his pictures he took (stupidly I should have looked at his texts) and he offered to show me the rest of his pics but with the phone in his hand. Then we decided to drop it.

 

That night he was very distant and I suspected he was worried that I had found something on his phone he didn't want me to see.. so I tried to ask him if anything was wrong. By what he said it seemed like he was upset that I had snooped. I tried to talk to him some more.. and I can't exactly remember what was said, I think I've tried to block it out in my mind.. but he mentioned the "colleague" again and I got that awful feeling again, which made me extremely upset. He tried to comfort me.

 

After that things seemed to cool down. I never had reason to think he was texting her, or calling her. He had another conference coming up that he was going to drive to (a long drive.) but made plans with "some buddies" (herself included) to go camping in a completely different state. So he leaves to go camping (he drives up there) a full 2 1/2 weeks before the conference, meaning to drive to where the conference was and stay in that state, after camping. This is time he did not spend with me and our daughter (3 yrs).

 

He maintained contact with me, a few texts and phone calls here and there. And then I discovered our phone bill a few weeks after his camping trip (he was at the conference by now). It showed that at least in the past three weeks he had texted his "colleague" 400+ times. In between that were random pic messages and phone calls. Some texts were at 2am on a weekend. I'm not even sure how much they've emailed. So I confronted him by phone. I felt so hurt and betrayed and sick to my stomach, that I was not thinking right; but I wanted to let him know that it was over. He seemed so guilty, apologizing over and over, crying, wanting to go to marriage counseling.

 

Now it is a few weeks after the confrontation and he sees where I'm coming from, BUT that he "kinda thinks" that I am overreacting. He does not think he did anything wrong as he "doesn't have feelings for her."

 

And that's the part that KILLS me, he will not ADMIT that he felt something for her, despite all the evidence, driving such a huge distance just to go camping with her, all the texts.

 

He maintains that it was all innocent (though he has admitted to "joking flirting" whatever the hell that means) and that he didn't see it as inappropriate then, but he does now that he hears my side of the story.

 

BUT he still will not admit that he has any feelings for her. How do I get him to open up? I told him I want to be with him and I want to make our M work, but I needed him to be honest in order to forgive him. It just doesn't add up in my mind. He is getting frustrated with me pushing the issue because I just can't believe him. It is getting to the point where he is like, "Okay, I'll tell you what you want to so obviously hear even though it's not the truth, because you can't seem to let it go." I know he thought about her even when he was with me, and was filled with so much excitement about going camping. I know his heart was somewhere else, why won't he admit it?!

 

It could be that he is telling the truth, but if I take his explanation for face value I'm always going to be looking back and thinking, "Was I just taken for a fool? Did I really just buy into that, and that he knew I'd buy into it?" I just can't see how you can text/call/phone/maybe email, flirt with someone SO MUCH but at the same time NOT "have feelings" for them.

 

HELP! Thanks

[norajane]

Yes, he has feelings for her. Perhaps they are not feelings of love, but they certainly are lust and infatuation, certainly a crush, admiration, ego feed, validation, maybe more.

 

He can't admit that to you.

[2sunny]

ask him what he was benefitting by keeping in touch with her?

 

if it truly was just innocent he would have told you ALL about there correspondence. he didn't though and you need to ask him why he thought that was just fine.

 

also - ask him if the tables were turned - would he like it if you had done ALL of this to him - all the while acting like it's no big deal.

 

ultimately, if he's unwilling to do any admission or repair work - there is nothing to salvage. his attitude says it all.

 

if he feels entitled to have relationships such as this, he will have more in the future.

 

he doesn't seems regretful that it happened... just that he got caught. this is NOT a good place to be in a marriage.

 

IME it is difficult to repair and move forward with an attitude such as his.

 

and YES, he has feelings for her. no man spends that kind of time and energy on a gal if they aren't interested or getting some benefit from it.

[westrock]

He seemed so guilty, apologizing over and over, crying, wanting to go to marriage counseling.

 

Now it is a few weeks after the confrontation and he sees where I'm coming from, BUT that he "kinda thinks" that I am overreacting. He does not think he did anything wrong as he "doesn't have feelings for her."

 

He may think he did nothing wrong, but even if there was no physical affair what he engaged in is called an emotional affair. Since he's offered marriage counseling, make an appointment right away for the both of you. He is wrong to think you are overreacting and he is only saying that to alleviate his guilt for getting caught. Tell him in no uncertain terms that he must cut all contact with this woman as she is toxic to the health of your marriage.

[OrangeKin]

Thank you everyone for your insight.

 

also - ask him if the tables were turned - would he like it if you had done ALL of this to him - all the while acting like it's no big deal.

 

ultimately, if he's unwilling to do any admission or repair work - there is nothing to salvage. his attitude says it all.

 

if he feels entitled to have relationships such as this, he will have more in the future.

 

he doesn't seems regretful that it happened... just that he got caught. this is NOT a good place to be in a marriage.

 

IME it is difficult to repair and move forward with an attitude such as his.

 

and YES, he has feelings for her. no man spends that kind of time and energy on a gal if they aren't interested or getting some benefit from it.

 

Yes, I tried to do the whole "how would you feel if it was me that did it" and he said he would trust me if I said it was innocent.

 

The problem is he has admitted he thinks now that it was inappropriate, he is willing to make repair work, but he will not admit his feelings for her!

 

I do get the feeling that he is "minimizing" these things to a.) not upset me more than I already am, thinking the damage is already done why make it worse, and b.) alleviate his guilt. It's just that when I talk to him I DO feel like I'm overreacting. He will NOT admit it. He is losing his patience with me and we are getting nowhere because I cannot heal without his admission, but he won't give it to me. I've tried every line: "If you love me, please help me get over this, tell me how you felt about her" while sounding nonjudgmental or angry or accusing. I've tried everything I could think of.

 

We can't go to MC yet because he is at his conference far away. I can't dance around this issue anymore waiting to schedule an appt that could be weeks away! I'm going nuts!

[child_of_isis]

He is gaslighting you.

 

Thank you everyone for your insight.

 

 

 

Yes, I tried to do the whole "how would you feel if it was me that did it" and he said he would trust me if I said it was innocent.

 

The problem is he has admitted he thinks now that it was inappropriate, he is willing to make repair work, but he will not admit his feelings for her!

 

I do get the feeling that he is "minimizing" these things to a.) not upset me more than I already am, thinking the damage is already done why make it worse, and b.) alleviate his guilt. It's just that when I talk to him I DO feel like I'm overreacting. He will NOT admit it. He is losing his patience with me and we are getting nowhere because I cannot heal without his admission, but he won't give it to me. I've tried every line: "If you love me, please help me get over this, tell me how you felt about her" while sounding nonjudgmental or angry or accusing. I've tried everything I could think of.

 

We can't go to MC yet because he is at his conference far away. I can't dance around this issue anymore waiting to schedule an appt that could be weeks away! I'm going nuts!

[2sunny]

He is gaslighting you.

 

i completely agree.

 

if he loved you and wanted things to work - he would be willing to do ANYTHING you required of him to make this move in a positive direction.

 

he is still involved with her - i guarantee it!

 

leave him without warning... then he'll get the message loud and clear. he has left you zero options for making it work.

 

ps... sorry to say - but he's a dork.

[carhill]

We can't go to MC yet because he is at his conference far away. I can't dance around this issue anymore waiting to schedule an appt that could be weeks away! I'm going nuts!

 

OK, then make good use of the time and solidify your legal rights. MC is a good thing. Knowing your options is a good thing. That way, when he returns, you can hold him to his commitment to MC, full well knowing what you can do if he refuses. Calmly and without rancor.

 

This is one of those unpleasant times where you have to take a stand. It sucks

[D-Lish]

400 plus texts and he spends 2 1/2 weeks camping with her?

I'd say it progressed beyond an emotional affair.

 

Always trust your gut.

[LoyalGirl]

You HAVE to see some of those texts! "Snoop" again if you have to. There should be no secrets in a marriage...

[2sunny]

if he's traveling now - why not continue to check up on him?

 

i would. call the hotel - a lot, late at night.

 

he has given you no reason not to check. you have to assume he is still seeing her (more than you think - and more than he will EVER admit) and still keeping in touch with her when he's home.

 

check his cell bill - everyday if you need to. get the password to his email account(s) - yes there's probably more than one. he may now have a secret phone - one that you aren't supposed to know about so that he can still contact her. put a voice activated recorder in his car or office or briefcase if you need to - some look like a pen. or leave it under your bed if you have to be out of town for a few days.

 

start checking on things! he's not giving you info you want - so get it yourself.

[whichwayisup]

He thinks he can just brush it under the rug, well, life doesn't work that way.

 

If this woman isn't important to him and the friendship isn't a big deal, then he should have NO problem saying goodbye to her and putting all his effort and energy into you and the marriage.

 

Don't let him off easily. Find out if this woman is married or has a boyfriend. Keep that info to yourself, until you need to use it, because IF this IS a full-on affair, then four eyes are better than two. If need be, you let the OW's spouse know what is going on as well.

 

Your H needs to FEEL consquences. I'm sorry but he should have cancelled his trip. Going away camping right now was the wrong choice. He is acting selfish and is in a fog thinking he can do whatever he wants - Error! Wrong! HE is the one who needs to continually work to gain your faith and trust in him again. So far, what has he actually done?

 

Sunny is right and if he isn't giving you any answers that you need to know, then seriously consider hiring a PI. He won't admit to ANYTHING until a last resort. Even if you tell him you want to know, even if it hurts you, he'll STILL lie to you.

 

Scary thing is, he's probably leading on and lying to the OW as well. She probably thinks your marriage is on the rocks and has made it seem like he is going to leave, when infact that is the furthest from the truth.

 

Sorry that you're going through this.

[Angel1111]

You're totally wasting your time focusing on him being honest with you when he's engaging in dishonest behavior. It's not gonna happen.

 

Every man and woman knows - without being told - that this kind of behavior is offensive to his or her spouse, and that it would make them extremely suspicious. He is only saying that he sees it now from your point of view because he's deflecting the conversation away from the truth by making you think he's sympathizing with you. Unless he has the IQ of 50, he knew better already.

 

I had a relationship with someone like this once before and believe me those texts and the constant contact is not innocent by any stretch. As much as it hurts, you need to look at this realistically because there's not a man in this world who would devote that kind of time and attention to a woman that he isn't seriously interested in. I'm sorry to say that but it's a fact. You need to act on this with either counseling or a separation - or both. Don't pretend it isn't a problem because it is - it's huge. And btw, what has your sex life been like since the first time your instincts kicked in?

[OrangeKin]

Carhill - Yes I've been considering all the legalities of permanent separation.

 

2sunny - I never wanted to have to resort to spying on him like this, but I may have no choice. I feel so hurt. OW is single and works in a different state than where H is having his conference. I am positive they have not seen each other since their trip (which was only a few days, not 2 1/2 weeks!)

 

Whichwayisup - There is not much he can do right now to work on our trust, besides keeping frequent touch with me through text and phone calls. He says he has not communicated with OW. He claims he does not want to, but I will let the phone bill do the talking.

 

Angel - You said everything I never wanted to hear, but that I knew deep down in my gut. I am relieved to know that I'm not overreacting after all! Our sex life I don't think has been very different since I got that weird feeling. We've always been pretty active and that didn't seem to change at all. I really hope that is a good sign.

 

Since he is away it already feels like a separation. In a way it's good that I feel I can clear my thoughts. I just wish I knew exactly what had been said between them, but now I'll never get the chance to know. He is away at his conference and I doubt he will have ANY evidence by the time he gets back.

 

At first I thought I was sure I wanted to leave because of the betrayal, but the more I thought about it (after the initial shock wore off) I want to try and make it work. But it will never go anywhere unless he confesses. I wanted to believe him so badly, that there's no way the man I love so much and that I thought loved me would betray me like this. He maintains that he "didnt see it like I do" i.e., in his head there's no way the way the two of them were acting was as upsetting as I'm making it out to be. DENIAL!

 

Anyhow, thank you all so much. You have helped me more than you'll ever know.

[2sunny]

well - he gets some kind of benefit from the communication with her. whether or not he admits that to you is another thing.

 

minimally - it strokes his ego to have her interested in him.

 

it usually points to some weak area in your relationship with him that needs work.

 

go read for a while in the OW/OM forum and you will find out how these things usually unfold and how they got started (even if innocently enough).

 

the MM usually plays the same role... the OW usually believes all the lies he tells.. even personal stuff about you and your life - gets her to feel sorry for him and things go on and on.

 

in the meantime - he is lying to you as well so he can continue on with her.

 

the secret part of it all is usually what keeps it alive... makes it exciting.

 

go read. i did. i was very surprised. MM make it seem easy and justify it all in their minds most of the time.

 

also - at this point i would even question the conference he's supposed to be attending - because you should... been there done that. was shocked. only after looking further than what seemed an innocent cover.

 

maybe you should get on a plane and show up where he's supposed to be and find out if he's really there and really there without her.

[OrangeKin]

I have been browsing through other forums/articles and I am more and more worried that everything I've complained about, especially my gut instinct, is that something sexual has happened.

 

I've read so many stories similar to mine about women who eventually got the truth out of their Hs when he was claiming it was only innocent and denying everything, when in truth it had gone so much further. I feel sick.

 

I know for sure that he is indeed at his conference as a close friend of mine works at a different branch of his company, and knows who was scheduled to be there. What I don't know is if she's there with him, which I truly doubt.

 

And yeah I think looking at the OW/OM threads will be healing.. I will be terrified to click anything at first however!

[2sunny]

I have been browsing through other forums/articles and I am more and more worried that everything I've complained about, especially my gut instinct, is that something sexual has happened.

 

I've read so many stories similar to mine about women who eventually got the truth out of their Hs when he was claiming it was only innocent and denying everything, when in truth it had gone so much further. I feel sick.

 

I know for sure that he is indeed at his conference as a close friend of mine works at a different branch of his company, and knows who was scheduled to be there. What I don't know is if she's there with him, which I truly doubt.

 

And yeah I think looking at the OW/OM threads will be healing.. I will be terrified to click anything at first however!

 

i know honey - and my heart is heavy for you right now.

 

but you gotta find out what the facts are without keeping your eyes closed. ask your friend to find out if that gal is there.

 

the facts will give you what you need to know in order to make an educated move based on FACTS not just assumptions.

 

he will always deny unless you know for sure.

 

we are here and will help in any way we can. nothing stated is to be mean - it's just that we have all seen the same thing here for years and years.

 

sad thing is - you are describing something familiar. whichwayisup is probably one of the most straight shooters here - with good balance and awesome advice for you if you need to keep a level head and get good direction.

 

find out the facts first! we'll help with what we can - there may still be a good outcome possible. we never give up hope especially at the beginning stages of discovery.

[angie2443]

If you have no children, leave and never look back. I've seen your story too many times in other peoples posts. Your husband has poor relationship bounderies, he'll most likely never change. Save yourself from future bitterness and heartache and divorce.

[OrangeKin]

Thanks guys. Is it possible to withhold this type of information (of a PA versus an EA) until much later down the road? Weeks and months?

 

I don't think there is any way for me to find out for sure if anything happened. She works for an out-of-state branch of his company, so she's not really "accessible." So that's bothering me too.. not really being sure. The only way I'll know, and be able to forgive and heal, is if he volunteers the information. Which he is not.

 

We have a young daughter together so I have to think about her too. But I'm still ambivalent as to whether or not to stay.

 

Ugh.

[Lucky_One]

Sure he could be withholding the information that it was a PA rather than just an EA. I was in an EMA as a single OW, and it is amazing how much a MM will lie to his wife in order to keep his marriage.

 

Babydoll, he has had sex with her. You don't spend time texting like that and then go camping with a woman just to roast marshmallows over a fire - you roast weenies, too.

 

She works for his company? And why are you positive that she is not at this conference, too? For that matter, how are you sure that the conference time is exactly what he says it is? (Ex - my BF goes to a conference called DIA. The dates are on the website for it, so if I was worried, I could check up on his dates.)

 

Have you called her office number to see if she is there at work, rather than traveling?

 

I know that people sometimes think that it is bad to check up on a spouse, but I am of the opinion that if you lie to me about something that gets your butt in trouble, then you just may continue to lie to me about the same behaviors.

 

Bottom line - he is not going to tell you the truth. Find the truth out for yourself.

 

(((((orangekin)))))

[norajane]

Thanks guys. Is it possible to withhold this type of information (of a PA versus an EA) until much later down the road? Weeks and months?

 

Yes. Cheaters hide whatever they can get away with hiding.

[Lucky_One]

Actually, another thought. You have been through a pretty traumatic few weeks here, finding out that your H is involved with another woman.

 

Fly to his conference as a surprise for him. Get someone to watch the baby, and go out there. You need to talk f2f, and you can get a good idea of how he acts when he is away from home, too. If he has company, this will certainly show it, and it will also show his OW that you are serious about wanting to save your marriage.

[2sure]

OrangeKin -

 

Reading your post actually made me shake...I had to stop and come back to it. Your husbands actions are very much like my husbands were the first time I caught him cheating. Your actions and thoughts are very much like mine were....this hits very close to home for me. I would ask that you go back and read some of my posts - but they are cumbersome to sift through.

 

First, your instincts are excellent, obviously. Next, your husband is playing with your head by using denial, denial, denial. You are boarding the crazy train and it will be a long ride to a wreck until you realize this. There is a term for what he is doiing and it is called GASLIGHTING. Its real, look it up here and elsewhere. Please.

 

Like I said, your situation is so much like mine was the first time I caught him...I feel a sense of urgency in giving you the things I learned. Let me preface this by telling you that our marriage is on good ground again, I am more trusting now than I thought I could be, so it can be overcome. But not until yuo take action to fix this. HIS ACTIONS HAVE TO HAVE CONSEQUENCES THAT AFFECT HIM MORE THAN YOU.

 

All signs indicate this is a full on affair - but your instincts or your heart are not admitting this. OK - so what if they werent physcial....its an Affair. He has crossed the line. If he cant/wont come clean - stop asking questions. Act. Is the OW married? Find out thru her cell phone # who she is and if married or partnered. Call her - tell her you are uncomfortable with her contact with your H. Be straightforward, all business. Tell him you have done this and that you WILL have access to his cell phone records and email passwords. Tell him you are doing for BOTH of you what you need to to save your marriage and if he cant help right now - he better cooperate and understand HE will be HIS OWN Victim and he can choose whether or not he wants to take OW along on his ride to the trainwreck.

 

The first time my husbnad cheated, like you, I never got all the information...and the only consequences were that I was devestated, we talked a lot, did a little MC, nothing drastic for him at all. The second time, I was not his victim - I acted in defense of my marriage. The consequences affected him. He was mortified, he was angry...but what was my risk? I had nothing to lose but everything anyway. I think my actions saved my marriage and actually made him change his thinking. I wish I knew the first time what I have just told you now.

 

I dont know much, but I know this.

[OrangeKin]

Oh I feel stupid. When I first confronted him about it I shouldn't have angrily exploded at him with what I had found out and knew. I should have let him tell his story. I am sure I would have gotten more details that way. STUPID!!

 

My friend (co-conspirator seems like) in his company assured me that OW is not there with him and is accounted for at her respective branch. I WISH I could go out there and see him, but money is tight and I don't have the luxury of dropping $800+ on a plane ticket. I am considering talking to credit unions however. I think if it is just the two of us, without our daughter around, we can be more straightforward.

 

I do not believe OW is married or even attached. I have called her once and it went to her voicemail and I haven't had the courage to call again. I just don't think anything good can come from the two of us talking.. yes there is the small chance she will honestly admit everything to me but an even bigger chance she will treat me like an enemy and be of no help.

 

All signs indicate this is a full on affair - but your instincts or your heart are not admitting this. OK - so what if they werent physcial....its an Affair. He has crossed the line. If he cant/wont come clean - stop asking questions. Act. Is the OW married? Find out thru her cell phone # who she is and if married or partnered. Call her - tell her you are uncomfortable with her contact with your H. Be straightforward, all business. Tell him you have done this and that you WILL have access to his cell phone records and email passwords. Tell him you are doing for BOTH of you what you need to to save your marriage and if he cant help right now - he better cooperate and understand HE will be HIS OWN Victim and he can choose whether or not he wants to take OW along on his ride to the trainwreck.

 

The first time my husbnad cheated, like you, I never got all the information...and the only consequences were that I was devestated, we talked a lot, did a little MC, nothing drastic for him at all. The second time, I was not his victim - I acted in defense of my marriage. The consequences affected him. He was mortified, he was angry...but what was my risk? I had nothing to lose but everything anyway. I think my actions saved my marriage and actually made him change his thinking. I wish I knew the first time what I have just told you now.

 

I dont know much, but I know this.

 

2sure, I am sad hearing your story. Your words actually gave me chills too. I did not want to believe he could engage in a PA; both he AND OW are very religious/conservative!

 

What happened the second time you caught him? Did you say you were leaving him? When I first found out I told my H it was over, but now it seems that the threat has subsided at least in his mind and he has calmed down. I am afraid he knows how it felt to almost lose me and our girl and his fear will prevent him from giving me the entire truth.

 

Thank you so much for sharing. I know I am not alone and that I'm not crazy. I will indeed be going through your posts!

[manugeorge]

Yes. Cheaters hide whatever they can get away with hiding.

 

Amen sister!. They damn sure will.

 

I caught my ex by discovering pictures, just hugging and kissing some girl. During the confrontation, he swore up and down that it was a one time thing and they didn't even have sex.

 

I had to do the research myself to discover the truth. I found the girl, spoke to her and found out they had a full blown 6 month affair but you know what the cincher was? she wasn't even the only one he was screwing during that time. There were about 5 different ones over the course of a year.

 

See, if I had let it go at his word that it was only one time with this girl......I shudder to think where I'd be now.