The new sexual revolution: Porn, Swingers, and shifting moralities

[Trialbyfire]

6% bodyfat? Where do your porn stars come from, Ethopia?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Well, I can also avoid regular coke and get the diet version. But just because it has no calories doesn't mean it isn't going to rot my teeth.

 

Calories do not rot teeth. Sugar does, and it's not in diet soda, though there may be other ingredients that do as well. Not sure how it's germane to our discussion, though.

 

The damage is in creating a society that is basing its *new* reality on fantasy expecations and a society that tells it's self it's okay to do something because it feels good.

 

If something feels good, to argue that it should not be done requires it have a negative consequence that outweighs the positive effect. Crystal meth must feel good, as people use it, but it tends to ravage the body in a short amount of time, ergo it's not such a good idea. Were crystal meth to have a neutral health implication, arguing against it's use seems silly to me. Ditto for sex, you seem to believe that sex, all by itself, carries negative consequences, even when you take STD's and unwanted pregnancy off the table. What consequences are you referring to, as I do not see it?

 

It's both. I have no doubt that porn imitates real life on some factors. I also have no doubt that porn over-exploits and has set unreal expectations about sexuality for men and for women.

 

Chicken, meet egg.

 

And if most men think that the women in the porn are the best of the best, then this would be another example of how unrealistic men have become about real women.

 

I was referring more to the top-shelf types, vivid girls, et al. Granted, that's not all that's available. Personally I prefer amateur stuff because it is real people, with real bodies, having real sex for fun not money. Of course, since my life is a porn, usually I find actual porn boring. However, that's my personal preference, whereas I want to try to keep this discussion, as much as is possible, on societal level trends.

 

Yeah...all women want to be porn stars and be treated how porn stars are treated. Holy crap! Women are finally realizing that porn stars have it made and now we all want to be one! Sweet Jesus if you really believe that is what women really want.

 

That's not what I said. I said that increasingly, more and more women are realizing that the way we used to do it, where women are taught fear, shame, and avoidance of their own sexuality is being replaced by an attitude amongst women that it's okay to be a freak in bed. Not that they want to be pornstars, but they want a pornstar-like sex life, and that's perfectly fine.

 

It unforuntetly has come to that men do infact like porn girls and what is shifting is that women are being more like porn girls to meet the fantasy ideal. But that isn't progression and that isn't freedom.

 

Ironically, you are concurring with my central thesis here, though attributing the reasons to different factors. I say women are empowering themselves and taking control of their own sexuality, you say us men are enslaving women and forcing them to meet our fantasy ideal. If you knew Mrs. sxyNYCcpl you'd know that no man, living or dead, would ever have enough stones to enslave her lol. Nor would anyone who wishes to continue living even try. She has, of her own free will and choice, decided the path her sexuality will take.

 

get a guys sperm all over her face.

 

It seems to me one of your stronger objections to porn (not that I want this discussion to be about only porn, and I damn sure don't want an it's bad, no it's good, no it's bad playground argument about it) is that there are specific sex acts, such as the aforementioned facial, that you don't wish to partake in. So don't, that's OK! Some like strawberry, others prefer mint chocolate chip.

[Sks]

People need to separate their fantasy's from day to day life, it would not be a problem if they did.

 

I have a "dominate" side and my GF has a submissive side, what we do to bond together is only between me and her, it is a private issue and should be kept as such.

 

Many problems are caused by people expressing there private business in public and choosing enjoyment over personal responsibility and respect.

[JackJack]

I think some people feel that sex is what its all about. There is nothing else on this earth but sex. Wheather its with your own spouse, someone else's spouse, or when you're playing mattress tag with swinging couples. Oh yeah and porn too, that's what its all about. Reminds me of that song the hokey pokey!

[sxyNYCcpl]

I think some people feel that sex is what its all about.

 

It's what this conversation is about. It's certainly not all life has to offer.

 

Reminds me of that song the hokey pokey!

 

Yikes. I was just singing that song in the shower the other day, my dog FLIPPED! No idea why, but clearly not a fan of "you put your left foot in...." Of course, it could have just been the singing.

[morelaugh]

Oh my God!

 

A 40-year-old who thinks porn stars are the best of the best.

Anyone else smells middle life crisis?

Run girls, run, run for your life!

 

Sure women love to have sex and are a LITTLE more able to show that.

 

I also don’t believe that porn is the root of all evil.

 

But, unfortunately, I doubt that women are more empowered today in their sexuality. Women have a long way to go to be able to say and demand(?) what they really want sexually.

Sexuality is still very much defined in male terms.

 

And 12 year olds wearing ‘Porn star’ T-shirts – I don’t even want to go there. You obviously don’t have teenage daughters.

Female bisexuality - give me a break – how about male bi-sexuality?

 

Don't worry - your mid-life crisis will pass... everything will get back to normal (whatever your definition of normal is) and your compulsion to preach will ease...

[alwayshealing]

I don't.

 

In fact, quite the opposite, especially when it comes to swinging (but really it could apply to any sexual act or practice) I fully acknowledge that it's not appropriate for everyone. What gets my feathers ruffled up is people who think because something isn't appropriate for them, it is therefore not acceptable or appropriate for other people. That's called projecting.

 

Practice what ya preach lady:

 

"For some reason, these folks, usually but by no means always women, wish to hold onto the "Good girls don't" that we were saddled with for so long. I genuinely feel bad for them, as they're letting their preconceptions keep them from evolving."

 

 

What is the point of this thread other than you forcing your opinion down others throats?

[sxyNYCcpl]

A 40-year-old who thinks porn stars are the best of the best.

 

Perhaps you should read my words with a little context. I was responding to a poster who stated that among the many reasons she didn't like porn was the the actresses are better looking, younger, and perkier than real women. I was merely explaining why that was the case.

 

As for my age, well, people routinely think I'm in my late 20's, and I most certainly do not act my age. With any luck, I never will.

 

Anyone else smells middle life crisis?

 

Not only am I too young for that, I am so totally content with my life that it's completely unnecessary.

 

Sure women love to have sex and are a LITTLE more able to show that.

 

A little?!? Perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but acceptable behaviors today compared to a generation or two ago is a lot more than a little.

 

Sexuality is still very much defined in male terms.

 

How so?

 

And 12 year olds wearing ‘Porn star’ T-shirts – I don’t even want to go there.

 

Who said anything about 12 year olds?

 

Female bisexuality - give me a break – how about male bi-sexuality?

 

What about it?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Practice what ya preach lady:

 

"For some reason, these folks, usually but by no means always women, wish to hold onto the "Good girls don't" that we were saddled with for so long. I genuinely feel bad for them, as they're letting their preconceptions keep them from evolving."

 

What is the point of this thread other than you forcing your opinion down others throats?

 

Quite simply, I was not talking about the same people. Group 1 isn't ready for swinging, and that's fine. Group 2 isn't ready for swinging, and insists that the rest of us follow their lead, and would even go so far as to enforce it by law if they had the authority. Group 1 I respect. Group 2 I loathe. Big difference.

 

As for my opinion, my whole point was to solicit and discuss the opinion of others. In my experience, forcing an opinion down peoples throats simply doesn't work.

[Moose]

Quite simply, I was not talking about the same people. Group 1 isn't ready for swinging, and that's fine. Group 2 isn't ready for swinging, and insists that the rest of us follow their lead, and would even go so far as to enforce it by law if they had the authority. Group 1 I respect. Group 2 I loathe. Big difference.

 

As for my opinion, my whole point was to solicit and discuss the opinion of others. In my experience, forcing an opinion down peoples throats simply doesn't work.

Just so I don't have to go back and read this all over again....will you do us a favor and clearly define Group 1 and Group 2...?

[Jersey Shortie]

People need to separate their fantasy's from day to day life, it would not be a problem if they did.

 

I have a "dominate" side and my GF has a submissive side, what we do to bond together is only between me and her, it is a private issue and should be kept as such.

 

Many problems are caused by people expressing there private business in public and choosing enjoyment over personal responsibility and respect.

 

Do you have a brother?

[Moose]

Ok, so the sexy couple from NY must have me on iggy....which is no biggie....I'm just confused, cause neither group 1 or 2 is, "ready" for swinging.

 

However, one is ok, and one is loathed....since neither is, "ready" to swing....I guess I just don't understand the difference unless it really is that your opinion is the only one that matters in this thread....

 

Wouldn't that go against what the reason you've said you created it in the first place?

 

Someone help me out here?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Just so I don't have to go back and read this all over again....will you do us a favor and clearly define Group 1 and Group 2...?

 

Sure.

 

Group 1 is people who, for whatever reason, do not wish to, or cannot handle, adding consensual non-monogamy (or really, any next generation sexual practice) into their relationships. They do not, however, feel that because that is what's right for them implies it's mandatory for others.

 

Group 2 is people who are not only not willing and/or able to add it to their lives, but who insist that others should not do so either, to the point that they would, if they could, enforce a prohibition as a matter of law.

 

I am concerned, though, as I do not want this thread to get hijacked into just a debate or discussion about swinging. That certainly is a subset of the increased sexual permissiveness that prompted my original post, but it's just one part of the bigger picture.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Ok, so the sexy couple from NY must have me on iggy....which is no biggie

 

Dude, chill, I'm not in here hitting refresh every 30 seconds. I'll acknowledge that you and are as close to polar opposites as can exist, but unless you become a complete ass, I won't put you on ignore. In fact, I've never put anyone on any board about any topic on ignore... yet anyway.

 

However, one is ok, and one is loathed....since neither is, "ready" to swing....I guess I just don't understand the difference unless it really is that your opinion is the only one that matters in this thread....

 

In case it wasn't clear in my prior post, the difference is that the one that is okay (actually I think the word I used was respected) doesn't expect other people to adopt their way of life. The one that is loathed does.

 

Wouldn't that go against what the reason you've said you created it in the first place?

 

Not at all, I welcome all opinions, even those I disagree with. Of course my original post was not about whether or not you like the sexual permissiveness changes we've seen in society, nor even whether or not you have personally participated or changed your outlook, but more about are my observations accurate, and accurate or not, what does it mean.

[Moose]

I am concerned, though, as I do not want this thread to get hijacked into just a debate or discussion about swinging.

I think we're still on topic, just like you said here:

That certainly is a subset of the increased sexual permissiveness that prompted my original post, but it's just one part of the bigger picture.

Now, let's look at your original post:

One of the most positive changes we're starting to see is that women today are becoming much more sexually empowered and are taking ownership of their sexuality, rather than allow yesterdays puritanical attitudes to rule their lives. They're realizing that it's okay to step up and say, "Hey, I like sex too!" Indeed, I believe that this shift from "Good girls don't" to "Hell yes, we do" is what's fanning the flames behind these changes in society.

Now, I guess my problem is that you've said these are "positive" changes.

 

Many people, (myself included), don't see this as such, and maybe I'm just confused as to whether or not you do or don't.....what say you?

[sxyNYCcpl]

Now, I guess my problem is that you've said these are "positive" changes.

 

Absolutely, positively, yes!

 

I think it borders on almost criminally cruel that we have insisted that women in our society have such a stunted relationship with their sexuality, and think it's quite refreshing that we're slowly, finally moving past that.

 

If it matters, and in case you didn't already know this, I am not a woman. These comments are based on my observations of human behavior.

 

Many people, (myself included), don't see this as such, and maybe I'm just confused as to whether or not you do or don't.....what say you?

 

My position is made clear above. I don't know if it's worth either of our time to debate it, though, as you give more weight to some letters purportedly written by St. Paul to the Corinthians (not to mention you assign the weight of God's words to those words written by a mere man) when it comes to acceptable sexual practices than you do to modern day science.

[Moose]

If it matters, and in case you didn't already know this, I am not a woman. These comments are based on my observations of human behavior

Oh no, I knew that since you called me, "dude"....and it gave me a good indicator of just how to approach this, and hopefully without offending you....along with other clues.....

Absolutely, positively, yes!

In my opinion, this would be different had you had a daughters and not sons....(I hope my memory isn't failing me here).....

I think it borders on almost criminally cruel that we have insisted that women in our society have such a stunted relationship with their sexuality, and think it's quite refreshing that we're slowly, finally moving past that.

This is where you may get offended, and I need to be clear that I'm not trying to brag about my experiences here....but, every intimate relationship I've had resulted in wild monkey sex regardless of what society considers condusive to how women "should" feel about their sexuality....

 

Any woman, I don't care what walk of life they've traveled enjoys/enjoyed sexual pleasures above and beyond what would be considered a, "man's" perspective.

 

AND, it should be respected to allow her to set her own limits as to what she's comfortable with....not society's definition as to what it, "should" be.

 

Crying out loud....women have ENOUGH expectations thanks to people who believe like you do....

 

You asked for an opinion, and welcomed it...you just got it....

[sxyNYCcpl]

In my opinion, this would be different had you had a daughters and not sons....(I hope my memory isn't failing me here)

 

Why? Do you think I would wish asexuality on my daughter just because she's female?

 

.....This is where you may get offended, and I need to be clear that I'm not trying to brag about my experiences here....but, every intimate relationship I've had resulted in wild monkey sex regardless of what society considers condusive to how women "should" feel about their sexuality....

 

Good for you. And her, regardless of which her we're talking about.

 

Any woman, I don't care what walk of life they've traveled enjoys/enjoyed sexual pleasures above and beyond what would be considered a, "man's" perspective.

 

You think I'm going to disagree? I think enjoying ones sexuality, whether male or female, is a good and desirable thing.

 

AND, it should be respected to allow her to set her own limits as to what she's comfortable with....not society's definition as to what it, "should" be.

 

No question. That doesn't change the fact that what's acceptable and what isn't has changed, at least from a societal perspective. Individuals will vary.

 

Crying out loud....women have ENOUGH expectations thanks to people who believe like you do....

 

What does that mean exactly?

[Moose]

What does that mean exactly?

Well....let's now look at this:

Why? Do you think I would wish asexuality on my daughter just because she's female?

Not at all. I just think whatever her prefrences are should be her private choice and not dictated by what society dictates it should be. With a son, (at least with my sons), I would probably bend a little bit, but like you said, I'm on the other side of, "your" coin and would do my best to instruct them on how to respect a woman's choice, regardless on what society says.....SCRIPTURE or not by the way....

That doesn't change the fact that what's acceptable and what isn't has changed, at least from a societal perspective. Individuals will vary

And, as history has taught us, (Scriptures included, yes..., if we don't learn from it, it's doomed to repeat it's self....and nothing....I repeat....nothing good has ever come from sexual permiscutiy.....I spelt that wrong.....but oh well....

What does that mean exactly?

.....oh boy....any ladies even care to explain that one to this gentleman?

[2nd-Best]

God talk is enough to turn anyone off any subject! ugh

[morelaugh]

As for my age, well, people routinely think I'm in my late 20's, and I most certainly do not act my age.

I'm sure you look much younger - I just love when people beleive that

As for the behaviour - this is obvious - but, you realise, that is not a compliment.

[2nd-Best]

I'm sure you look much younger - I just love when people beleive that

As for the behaviour - this is obvious - but, you realise, that is not a compliment.

ag

 

agreed, i have no idea what he looks like... i just know he seems like someone who is very young..

[OpenBook]

Most of us are not able to compartmentalize to both enjoy open sexuality and have a close exclusive bond with one other person.

 

Tell that to the 50+% of all MM out there who are cheating on their W's!

[OpenBook]

A 40-year-old who thinks porn stars are the best of the best.

Anyone else smells middle life crisis?

 

Yup, I'm smelling it.

 

Next thing y'know, he'll be on a mission to "liberate" women everywhere from their sexual repression... with or without his W's blessing.

 

I am deeply suspicious of the intentions of any man who expresses such concern about women's sexuality being repressed.

 

And anyway, it's all moot what a man says... especially about sex and women. It's what he DOES that matters.

 

No matter what they say, men do NOT value promiscuous women, other than as a vehicle to satisfy a man's sexual urges. This has been a Law of the Jungle ever since I've been around, anyway... and I don't see it changing anytime in the near future. Men are nothing if not consistent.

[sxyNYCcpl]

I just think whatever her prefrences are should be her private choice and not dictated by what society dictates it should be. With a son, (at least with my sons), I would probably bend a little bit, but like you said, I'm on the other side of, "your" coin and would do my best to instruct them on how to respect a woman's choice, regardless on what society says

 

Guess what? I agree with every word you said! Individual choices are exactly that, and should be respected, male or female. While society will always have some influence on people's choices, there will clearly be a wide range amongst individuals.

 

But this conversation isn't about me, or you, or our children, hypothetical or real. It's about the changes occurring societally, what's driving them, what are the consequences, good or bad, and where do we go from here.

 

nothing....I repeat....nothing good has ever come from sexual permiscutiy.

 

My experience runs contrary to that statement.