Biggie25x Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Is it possible to divorce when you still love someone? I don't even know if love for the person as much as love for the company/security they provide. You know, you know you need to move on because you have both hurt each other, the romance is gone BUT there are still strong feelings for each other on both sides?
Geishawhelk Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 How long have you been together, in total?
Author Biggie25x Posted September 17, 2008 Author Posted September 17, 2008 we have been married since 2002, moved in together in 1999
Author Biggie25x Posted September 17, 2008 Author Posted September 17, 2008 We have both hurt each other in the past and know the issue we have to work on. We know we love each other. Just that we've tried in the past and keep on giving each other second chances but we keep messing up. I have to move as well as where I'm living just doesn't have it economically anymore/need to be closer to family and she doesn't want to move either. We just want different things in life. Is it worth sticking around to see if it works this time? Should we move together and work on it together? Should we just part ways while we still somewhat get along rather that squeze a few more years out of a potentially bad marriage and part enemies?
Geishawhelk Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 You need counselling, because in my view, you have 'control' issues. That is, you both want to be seen as right, and valdiated by the other, but you're both struggling to be top in the other's eyes, and wanting the other perdson to therefore sacrifice something in order to put you (both yous) first. I'm not into blaming either one of you, but a relationship which has no perception of win/win, and that is being perpetuated through a personal desire to be number one, is going to flounder. I'm just completely guessing here, I know that..... But most issues in any relationship actually boil down to "I'm right, why won't s/he see that?" Done some counselling in my time. 99 times out of 10, it's a 'both-of-us-together-but-"me first" situation.....
Author Biggie25x Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 That hits the problem on the head. We both want to be right. The question remains on whether we can put that behind us and learn to live, communicate and relate a different way. I know I want to try but I also know I'm scared to try. We have BOTH hurt each other in the past. We both have issues communicating and working together. I know we need to do it different. She still seems unsure and doesn't know if we can get it done. I have those same doubts. There just seems a time when you realize you can't be what the other person needs. You just don't relate well together because your two different people with two different views on life. That you both are at different places in your life. That doesn't make either person a bad person. Just makes the relationship they have together bad. When it gets like that I am unsure whether it can be fixed. Sometimes it seems there can be two good people that can't relate because they're too different.
LakesideDream Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 I was married for 25 years. Had no idea my now ex had a maintained and emotional and physical relationsip with her high school sweetheart for 23 of those years. Raised two kids to adulthood etc. I was very in love with her, romantic, physical, blah blah. One day after a movie matinee she said, "I need space"... four days later it came out that she wanted to spend the rest of her live with her LTBF. We were divorced immediately. I was still very in love with her two months later when the final papers came through and the divorce was final. I didn't want her, I was no longer attracted to her... I couldn't reconcile another man penetrating her frequently, and her responding wholeheartedly. That part of our attachment was gone. Over time the feelings of love dissappeared. Now, (8 years later) I wouldn't piss on her if her hair was on fire.
SmartWoman321 Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Ofcoarse you can still be in love when you divorce. Just because you love someone doesn't mean you can live with them (think of you mom- LOL!). really, everyone I know who has divorced still has some degree of in-loveness--or perhaps just love with thier ex. How can you not? Obviously, if you still are in love with your spouse and you want to make your marriage work, MC is the first thing to try. I can't imagine splitting up without trying MC first. But yes, even those of us who make that decision to split (or are left), still feel some degree, somewhere in our hearts, of love for the ex.
Geishawhelk Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 That hits the problem on the head. We both want to be right. The question remains on whether we can put that behind us and learn to live, communicate and relate a different way. That's why I recommended counselling. Counselling isn't necessarily about keeping people together. It's about opening your eyes to whether being together or being apart is best. There is such a thing as compromise, and this doesn't entail taking turns to win and lose, it entails seeing that a win-win situation can be cultivated to leave you both satisfied. I know I want to try but I also know I'm scared to try. No, you're scared of failing. We have BOTH hurt each other in the past. We both have issues communicating and working together. I know we need to do it different. She still seems unsure and doesn't know if we can get it done. Well perhaps you might like to point out that trying again - with help- might bring you to a better level of communication, even if the 'goodbye' that might result will be friendly, rather than hostile. I have those same doubts. There just seems a time when you realize you can't be what the other person needs. It depends. Do you want to be? You just don't relate well together because your two different people with two different views on life. Hy, hang on, aren't we all? I truly have yet to meet a couple that agree on positively everything. as I said, you don't have to have the same views about everything. You just have to accept that your views can be different, but that you can get along inspite of - or even because of - that..... That you both are at different places in your life. That doesn't make either person a bad person. Just makes the relationship they have together bad. No. "There is nothing good nor bad but that thinking makes it so." (With thanks to Shakespeare, there.....) It makes it a challenge. unsure whether it can be fixed. Why 'fixed..? Why not 'adjusted...? Sometimes it seems there can be two good people that can't relate because they're too different. Vive la difference! Have you any idea how invigorating, how stimulating, and what fun it would be, if you would just allow each other to actually be so different....?!
SmartWoman321 Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 I left my H because of our oppositeness. When I first married him , 18 years ago, I knew we were totally oppoisite, thats one of the things that attracted me to him. I didn't think it would matter. But, 3 kids later, I have found out that a couple needs to be more alike than different to be able to hold it together in the long run. After the business of raising children wore off, I was left facing someone who I had nothing in common with EXCEPT the kids. He is type B, I am type A. I am social, he is a hermit. I am articulate, he barely speaks. I have freinds, he has none and doesn't want any. I join things, he stays home. I go to church, he doesn't. I am a toucher, he is a stiff tree. The list goes on and on and on and on...and it came to the point where I noticed that we were living totally seperate lives in the same house- never talking beyond the kids or the weather. Sex? Opposites in that too- in every way. We were like roomamates- like brother and sister, instead of H and W. After MC off and on over a couple of years, and me feeling more lonly than ever, I realized it had to end. I was not happy with the marriage, but he was content with things the way they were. Anyway---we obviously don't belong together - mostly based on our differences and its neither his fault nor mine. We can't change who we are, nor should we be expected to (this is different than compromising). I fell out of love (if I was ever really in love at all- I do not know)(O thought I was, but perhaps I though wrong). ANd now I grieve the loss of this marriage, wishing I could love him like I want to- but its just not there, we are just too different. But thats just me. Again- I tried MC first- and the OP should too.
Author Biggie25x Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 I'm game to try MC but my wife doesn't like the idea. I understand that we have to learn to accept each other the way they are. I have done so much research on relationships I have no doubt in my mind acceptance is the way to go. Fighting fair should become a new standard as should working together or talking out a problem. My problem starts at a different level. What if both of you acknowledge a problem but only one wants to work on it. As my wife and I talk through the days I am realizing she didn't have a huge problem with our relationship and doesn't accept the problems I have or I need changed. She also questions her willingness to try. I understand part of what got us here is the way we communicate and that we need to change those patterns. She does too but every time a chance comes up to do a different behavior it's back to the old style. For example, I can't change or argue about something two years old. All I can do is not do it again and apologize or do it differently next time or choose a different way of acting. This seems impossible to start if you're constantly going backwards and never moving forward. I mean doesn't she have an obligation to move on eventually? All I know is that it's going to take commitment from both of us to a new way of relating to make this work. How can it work if only one spouse is committed to doing it different. I am also in a situation where I have to move soon. I live 2500 miles away from my family and have for twelve years. We married with an agreement to move back at some time. I have been expressing the need to move back for at least the last couple of years and yet she claims she had no idea. I mean I have a twelve year old brother that I have only seen for a total of about 3 weeks out of the last 12 years. That needs to change. I need to be a part of his life. The same goes for my other brother and sister one of whom is starting college and the other who is ending college. I have two grand mom's left and they are both over eighty. I need to see them before they pass. In other words it's time to re-connect to my family before I regret it for the rest of my life. She understands but says she really isn't sure she can move. If we can't move home why can't we move somewhere at least closer to my family so I can see them more than one week every two years. I understand SHE'S happy where she lives bu I'M not. Shouldn't we be happy together.
Geishawhelk Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Well there you go.... The more info you gain, the more insight you have, the more different the slant. I will say what I have always said is such situations (and I take nothing away from your candour or openness) we have, as yet, just your viewpoint on this. That is not to say I do not believe your account to be honest. But it's a question of perspectives. I see from what you say that she seems relatively laid back about stuff, and reluctant to go to MC. This (from what I can see here) seems to be because things are going her way. She's where she wants to be, she's content, and so, why rock the boat? Harping back to ancient situations and issues is, you're quite right, a limiting and retroactive thing to do. Counting on the past is a sure-fire way of inhibiting progress. She seems, either way, to want to stay exactly as she is. The partner, therefore, with the difficult choice to make, is unfortunately, you. I'm sorry you find yourself in such an unenviable dilemma. I think your choices are limited, and they all entail sacrifice from you. What do you want to do about it?
TrustInYourself Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Great posts and advice Geisha. Only one person needs to change in a relationship for positive results. Why question or demand change from your wife? You have not mastered change in your own behavior or feelings. Self control and understanding your own feelings should take precendence over demands for change from your wife, which are ultimately futile. It only takes one person to change the dynamic of a relationship. If you are constantly concerned over your wife's behavior, you will find it hard to do anything for yourself.
Author Biggie25x Posted September 19, 2008 Author Posted September 19, 2008 I think you saying I am only worried about me and I should be the only one to change is a little premature. You seem to not get that it takes two people to work at a relationship. I have changed. I have modified my behavior. I have tried to change the way we relate. I do this everyday and while I am not perfect I do try. Hard. I think that it's only right to have not be the only one willing to adjust their patterns to make their partner happy. And it's seeming to be pretty hard when your partner won't adjust, acknowledges the work you've done to make her happy but keeps harping on things you did months if not years ago. It makes it hard to move on and look into the future. Geisha, thanks for the insight. I feel that you hit the nail on the head. It seems that everything is going her way and she doesn't want to change. I can't seem to convince her though that everything is not going my way. That it's fair that we both be happy not just her. I'm sorry, I don't buy the cop out that only I'm responsible for my happiness. In a marriage partners do have an effect on one another. If all I was worried about was my happiness I'd not be in this situation right now.
Geishawhelk Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 I'm sorry, I don't buy the cop out that only I'm responsible for my happiness. In a marriage partners do have an effect on one another. If all I was worried about was my happiness I'd not be in this situation right now. Well..... we might be straying into the realms of the spiritual here. As a complete aside (and relevant only to the above specific comment) my calling as a Buddhist teaches me that we are all responsible personally for our feelings, emotions and keeping them under rein and channelled to our benefit, not to our distress. But this is splitting hairs and as I mentioned, straying into areas not relevant to this discussion. I'm not one to shove it down throats. .....'Sides, when we live in close proximity to someone we're supposed to consider a soul-mate, life-long partner, lover, friend and companion - too damn right it affects us.....Pretty hard for it not to. The crux of the matter was that we vowed to share and go forward together as a mutually supportive unit - not yank and pull in opposite directions like two tug-o'-war teams..... Life's a bitch, ain't it.....?
Author Biggie25x Posted September 19, 2008 Author Posted September 19, 2008 Geisha, Yeah lifes hard but I think everything that's hard to do is worth it in the end. I do understand I control my happiness and I understand it's hard when you live in such close proximity with someone. It's almost like in a marriage you are responsible for your happiness the only problem are there are two people. Two people form into one in a marriage, theoretically, so it's hard to be the only one in control. Geisha, thanks for your help it's appreciated.
TrustInYourself Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 I think you saying I am only worried about me and I should be the only one to change is a little premature. You seem to not get that it takes two people to work at a relationship. I have changed. I have modified my behavior. I have tried to change the way we relate. I do this everyday and while I am not perfect I do try. Hard. I think that it's only right to have not be the only one willing to adjust their patterns to make their partner happy. And it's seeming to be pretty hard when your partner won't adjust, acknowledges the work you've done to make her happy but keeps harping on things you did months if not years ago. It makes it hard to move on and look into the future. Geisha, thanks for the insight. I feel that you hit the nail on the head. It seems that everything is going her way and she doesn't want to change. I can't seem to convince her though that everything is not going my way. That it's fair that we both be happy not just her. I'm sorry, I don't buy the cop out that only I'm responsible for my happiness. In a marriage partners do have an effect on one another. If all I was worried about was my happiness I'd not be in this situation right now. You make a choice to accept or not accept. Everything else is just emotions.
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