Hercules Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 My wife and I last night were with my parents, just watching TV and CNN explaining the Lehman disaster and whatever stock problems were going on. My mom made the comment that she felt the stock market was like gambling. My mother in law and father in law spend a significant amount of time trading stocks, and immediately my wife felt like it was directed at her family. She kept quiet about it until we went to sleep, where she started asking me, "Who do you love more, me or your mother?" And I'm like, it's 1am, shut up and go to sleep. One thing led to another and she started to bring up what my mom said. She was hurt by it, and I told her that I didn't think my mom meant it in a bad way. I mean, I know my mom my entire life, right? And sitting right next to her, knowing how my mom is, I don't think she meant what she said in a malicious way. She barely knows how the stock market works, and was just commenting on what happened in the news. Immediately my wife started telling me how I defend my parents before her. And I told her again, I don't see how I'm defending my parents if I'm saying that what my mom said was innocent and maybe just stupid. But she continued, and eventually started telling me what an abnormal family I have, how my mother has no manners, etc etc. Essentially she spent two hours telling me how bad my family was. I kept quiet for the time, with a little yelling back of how pointless this discussion was and it was late, and I had to go to work. It went on. I sat up to hear every bad thing I've ever done, apologized for in the past, and thought we had moved on. Then she went further -- I was intending on buying my sister a birthday present with my parents, a cheap laptop and she went off about how I'm spending too much on my family. She compared me to her brother who left home early on, and told his parents "I have my own life" or whatever. It was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back for my temper. Our entire relationship I have told my wife (even before we were married) that my parents rely on me for certain things in life. Some are monetary, and given their age and financial situation, I have been raised to ensure that I take care of them in their older age. Her family has had money her entire life, and as a result she has been spoiled. Even she admits as much. She is making a try on that area with me, but much of what she knows lies in how she sees the world, through the lens of only what she saw in her family. And I tried to tell her, not every family is the same -- I can't walk away from my parents like her brother did. My mom is a sick woman, and my father is just plain old and feeble to do most things. Other than cutting the grass, I take care of all the household items that need fixing, painting, putting up, etc. They simply don't have it in them to do it, nor do they have money to get it done elsewhere. Again, I've always made it clear that my parents do rely on me, and as their eldest son I will be there for them in their old age -- which is now. I just feel like my wife is trying very hard to put a wedge between myself and my parents... and trying to have me choose between them. She says she is 'selfish with me' and wants me all to herself, but when she starts telling me how bad my family is, or how my sister is faking her niceness to her (when she otherwise says my sister is the most amazing person to have around), it makes me resent her greatly. Any advice? I'm sure I have made mistakes but I've never crossed the family line with her on any topic, regardless of how weird I felt with a conversation with her mother or father. Granted, my interaction with them is far less than what her interaction is with my parents nowadays, but there are always awkward moments with parents and kids-in-law. I always chalk it up to just the way 'people are', and that they essentially mean well regardless of what is said. They wouldn't have blessed me to marry their daughter otherwise. I appreciate any comments or advice you can give. I just find myself keeping distance from my parents, and then from my wife as well because I just don't feel comfortable with what she has said, and the way she has said it.
dissed Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 First - it was not a jab at her mom from your mom... agree with your mom that it COULD be considered gambling in that you are not FDIC insured with stocks. Then hasten to add that when folks study the market, invest wisely and remain in the market for the long haul, i.e hold a solid well-diversified portfolio of small, medium and large cap stocks, 20% international stocks AND 10% bond funds; that you will build wealth and make a comfortable retirement after you watch the children graduate college debt-free of student loans. Also point out to your wife that taking care of your parents is a strong indicator that if/when your wife ever needs you (God forbid she gets a long-term illness) that you will likewise devote yourself to her needs. You've apologized for past offenses. Did you ask forgiveness after apologizing? If she forgave you, and she keeps bringing it up, it's HER issue to bear.
Biggie25x Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 I agree. It's unfair to bring up arguments from the past. This makes it hard to solve anything and just creates bad feeling among both partners. Your mom seems like she was just commenting on the news with no bad intent and she has to make some allowances for your mom's age/understanding of the stock market. She is trying to drive a wedge between you and your family. Your family doesn't seem bad, just older. As long as taking care of your family doesn't consume every waking hour of your life you should (and she should) they are some of the people that made you the person you are today. She needs to understand she has a place in your heart but that your hearts big enough to hold other people.
quankanne Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 frankly she sounds spoiled and needs to have a "come to Jesus" talk about the way she's treating you. It's admirable that you, as an adult child, are someone your folks can rely on and I know they appreciate what you do for them more than they will EVER be able to communicate. Your heart's in the right place, even if your wife makes snippy remarks out of jealousy and/or insecurity. tell her that you don't appreciate her fighting dirty just because she was upset about an innocent opinion your mom made. Frankly, I think playing the stock market is like buying lottery, and gambling on a chance to pull in money. But that's just me; whatever someone else does is their business. You – nor your mom – should be condemned for sharing an opinion. It's not like she forced a gun to your wife or HER parents and made them do something against their will. maybe it's time for a marriage enrichment class/program to help you learn the art of fighting fairly.
Lucky_One Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 I took a bad gamble on some Movie Gallery stock. I lost.
whichwayisup Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Your wife is overreacting and reading into stuff that isn't there. She has a chip on her shoulder and needs to lighten up. Number one rule - NO big dicussions late at night. Even if she wants to talk, that's not the time to do that. Instead of excluding herself and being in competition with your parents, she should try embracing them. Love them because they're part of HER family now.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 lol...the WORST thing you can do is tell a woman to shut up and go to sleep when she wants to talk. Just ask my husband. If anyone has some good suggestions on things a H can say to satisfy the W's need for talk and still get to sleep at a decent hour, I'll pass them on to him. I think the W was immature to ask whether you love her or your mother more. What kind of question is that? It's two different things. Apples and oranges. She's probably feeling like second-fiddle to your family of origin (didn't we already discuss this?), and resents that. A man is supposed to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, if you believe the Bible. If not, a wife still appreciates knowing that she comes first in her husband's life, and doesn't have to settle for a leaky faucet because the man is at his mommy's mowing her lawn. I know I could never deal with a momma's boy, that's why I broke up with my first love (my goodness, he was twenty-two and she still insisted on holding his hand if we were all out together!), and why I married not one, but two men whose mothers had already passed. (Me: "Oh, your mother passed away last year? I'm so sorry. Would you like to get a drink sometime?" ) Your wife needs to either accept your way of being ever-available to your parents, or she needs to move on. I don't think this is about what your mother said at all. That's just the topic du jour. This is about your W feeling like she'll always come second.
Author Hercules Posted September 16, 2008 Author Posted September 16, 2008 lol...the WORST thing you can do is tell a woman to shut up and go to sleep when she wants to talk. Just ask my husband. If anyone has some good suggestions on things a H can say to satisfy the W's need for talk and still get to sleep at a decent hour, I'll pass them on to him. I think the W was immature to ask whether you love her or your mother more. What kind of question is that? It's two different things. Apples and oranges. She's probably feeling like second-fiddle to your family of origin (didn't we already discuss this?), and resents that. A man is supposed to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, if you believe the Bible. If not, a wife still appreciates knowing that she comes first in her husband's life, and doesn't have to settle for a leaky faucet because the man is at his mommy's mowing her lawn. I know I could never deal with a momma's boy, that's why I broke up with my first love (my goodness, he was twenty-two and she still insisted on holding his hand if we were all out together!), and why I married not one, but two men whose mothers had already passed. (Me: "Oh, your mother passed away last year? I'm so sorry. Would you like to get a drink sometime?" ) Your wife needs to either accept your way of being ever-available to your parents, or she needs to move on. I don't think this is about what your mother said at all. That's just the topic du jour. This is about your W feeling like she'll always come second. I agree with you -- I am trying to prove to her that my world revolves around her, as much as possible without the implication of 'spoiling' her further. I spend very little time with my parents as it is, much less now that we've been married. I watch TV with her, cook with her, eat with her, and go out with her. I don't take my parents anywhere, I don't do those things for my parents. Yet it's still not good enough it seems like. She started a job today and was really sunny on the phone. I'm hoping that this will relieve some of her anxiety. It's irrelevant about the money -- it's more about her being social and out of my bubble. Because when the only thing she has is ME, then she wants me all to herself, 100% of the time. So if I give my parents the slightest bit of attention, she gets quite annoyed with it. Small comments bother her that if they came from anybody else -- would not bother them. They are innocuous and stupid things, jokes like all families have their weird ones, and she takes it all personally. I'm hoping that as her social life expands, that she will be less dependent on me for her mood, her attitude, and more. And I hope she gains some responsibility as well. She is very used to living off of her parents who she would literally buy $300 of things in a day, without a blink. It's quite a change to come to a guy who has a budget and likes to live within his means. It doesn't mean I am going to be a stingy guy, but I am also not going to spend like a drunken sailor. Hopefully the happy medium comes as we go forward. I'll keep you apprised of the status, I'm hoping it works out well because if I continue to resent her because of her trying to play number one and make my parents a distant #2, then it's not going to work out. What she has told me all these years about family and closeness is far different from what she is doing now, and hopefully she realizes this. I married that girl, not the one I'm seeing in her now, sadly.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 She started a job today and was really sunny on the phone. I'm hoping that this will relieve some of her anxiety. It's irrelevant about the money -- it's more about her being social and out of my bubble. Because when the only thing she has is ME, then she wants me all to herself, 100% of the time. Yes! You get it. We're going through a similar thing, and I just returned to work (after 7 years) two weeks ago. Good luck to you! And remember, you can spoil her in ways that don't involve money. Try to giver her some reassurance before she needs it, maybe work out a signal or something that's just for you two so that when you're with the parental units, she can feel like there's a part of you that just belongs to her. Just don't tell your parents about it! What she has told me all these years about family and closeness is far different from what she is doing now, and hopefully she realizes this. I married that girl, not the one I'm seeing in her now, sadly. The old bait-and-switch. Ugh. I feel for you, man. I had to pull out old love letters and show them to my husband to get him to understand why I was upset about some changes that happened. He wooed me with promises that he didn't keep. He denied making the promises. Fortunately (for me, not for him), I had them in writing. When things change from what has been agreed on and accepted, it's time for renegotiation. And dam, if it ain't constant! I hope you two can work out a good deal for both of you.
Author Hercules Posted September 16, 2008 Author Posted September 16, 2008 Yes! You get it. We're going through a similar thing, and I just returned to work (after 7 years) two weeks ago. Good luck to you! And remember, you can spoil her in ways that don't involve money. Try to giver her some reassurance before she needs it, maybe work out a signal or something that's just for you two so that when you're with the parental units, she can feel like there's a part of you that just belongs to her. Just don't tell your parents about it! The old bait-and-switch. Ugh. I feel for you, man. I had to pull out old love letters and show them to my husband to get him to understand why I was upset about some changes that happened. He wooed me with promises that he didn't keep. He denied making the promises. Fortunately (for me, not for him), I had them in writing. When things change from what has been agreed on and accepted, it's time for renegotiation. And dam, if it ain't constant! I hope you two can work out a good deal for both of you. In my experience, women are not a rational creature It's not an offensive remark, but if I took out letters she wrote me (mostly emails, I keep them all as I'm a sentimental kind of guy), she'd throw them in my face or justify the actions she's doing. "You pushed me to this!" If I had a nickel for every time she said that...
lonelyandfrustrated Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 In my experience, women are not a rational creature Now I know you REALLY get it! lol
D-Lish Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 In my experience, women are not a rational creature It's not an offensive remark, Ummmm, yes it is offensive. The notion that men are rational while women are emotional (irrational) immediately puts you in a mental position to dismiss what your wife says as "hormones", or nonsense. Don't think that women can't sense they aren't being taken seriously. I imagine when she told you she needed to talk and you told her to shut up, that the remark triggered some anger... no one likes being dismissed. That comment would put me in fight mode as well. You mentioned that she just started a new job. It occurs to me that she was experiencing a whole lot of stress about heading back into the work force- that would cause most people a fair amount of anxiety. Hence, the outburst. You mentioned she seemed sunny after settling into her first day at work. Probably because she is feeling much more at ease now that she has made it through the first day. If my husband told me to shut up and go to sleep- I'd surely fight rather than just discuss. You dismissed her- you do owe her an apology for that as much as she owes you one for slamming your family. I'm sure there was much more behind it than just a comment your mother made.
The Collector Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Ummmm, yes it is offensive. The notion that men are rational while women are emotional (irrational) immediately puts you in a mental position to dismiss what your wife says as "hormones", or nonsense. Don't think that women can't sense they aren't being taken seriously. I imagine when she told you she needed to talk and you told her to shut up, that the remark triggered some anger... no one likes being dismissed. That comment would put me in fight mode as well. You mentioned that she just started a new job. It occurs to me that she was experiencing a whole lot of stress about heading back into the work force- that would cause most people a fair amount of anxiety. Hence, the outburst. You mentioned she seemed sunny after settling into her first day at work. Probably because she is feeling much more at ease now that she has made it through the first day. If my husband told me to shut up and go to sleep- I'd surely fight rather than just discuss. You dismissed her- you do owe her an apology for that as much as she owes you one for slamming your family. I'm sure there was much more behind it than just a comment your mother made. What a load of defend-the-woman-at-any costs bunk. It was late and she had no right to disrupt his sleep, while criticizing his family (over nothing). If your partner did this at 1am, you might say 'shut up and go to sleep.' It doesn't sound aggressive or dismissive, just discuss it when both are awake. You make excuse after excuse for some jealous, bitchy, divisive, inappropriate comments. I'm sure if the situation was exactly the same, but the sexes were switched, you'd be criticizing the man. She didn't 'need to talk' she needed to bitch about his mother. She has no right to try and drive a wedge between him and his family, who he is trying to care for. Anyone who said **** about my mother would be history. OP, my advice is to give her hell for her childish and mean behaviour, and tell her if she feels threatened that you love your parents to pack her bags.
carhill Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 OP, man-up and take a stand. If it pisses her off, her problem. Water/duck/quack.... You're doing a whole pile of good things, not the least of which is taking care of your parents. I just finished up about a year of MC in the aftermath of doing a similar thing and I can tell you with certainty if my wife ever brings that kind of attitude to my doorstep she'd be out on her sweet ass IMO, your wife asked a very loaded and immature question at the top of your post. She's not a child. You don't need to coddle her like one at the nipple. Perhaps your language could've been different, but it sounds to me like she's used to pushing this button with you. Learned behavior
whichwayisup Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 What she has told me all these years about family and closeness is far different from what she is doing now, and hopefully she realizes this. I married that girl, not the one I'm seeing in her now, sadly. You need to tell your wife this. Exactly word for word. What is it that she feels threatened about? Has your family accepted her, treated her well? I just wonder WHY she feels insecure and wants to compete with them for your attention. There has to be a reason... Family is EVERYTHING and one day she will realize this. Extended family is just as important, again, she'll realize this, hopefully not too late.
almost famous Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 No man I have ever been in a relationship with has ever told me to 'shut up.' I think she should leave you. You clearly don't respect her anyway. Telling me to 'shut up' would be the last straw for a guy to me.
D-Lish Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 No man I have ever been in a relationship with has ever told me to 'shut up.' I think she should leave you. You clearly don't respect her anyway. Telling me to 'shut up' would be the last straw for a guy to me. Agreed- telling your spouse to shut up when they are obviously upset and wishing to talk isn't going to lead to a rational discussion. Gender has nothing to do with this. It's not irrational to respond to "shut up" with anger. The whole situation would have been diffused with a "hey- I hear that you're feeling slighted, let's talk about this over dinner tomorrow night and figure this out together". If my husband was upset and I told him to shut up- I'd fully expect him to get pissed off. If I did it on a regular basis- I'd also fully expect him to leave me.
carhill Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I'll bet these bedtime "talks" have been a regular feature. OP, would you relate that you and your spouse talk "at" each other instead of "with" each other? The tone of your post suggests this. My wife likes to corner me in public because she knows that I have definite codes of conduct that I follow and won't give her back what she surely deserves. I think there's a lot more at work here than mom and "shut up".
Trojan John Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 My wife does this as well. I've told her time and time again that having emotionally charged discussions after we've gone to bed late at night will solve nothing and only lead to an argument. I have been proven right every single time. She persists. I have the impression that Hercules' wife has done this on many occasions as well. I too have arrived to the point where I say "shut up and go to sleep", but not in a mean way. I say it after I've made it plain that "it will only lead to an argument" and "let us disucss it in the morning", several times. We argue, and my wife usually apologises for starting a late argument over something trivial. Truthfully, it's easier and less painful to just talk out whatever she wants to talk about than to get her to change her late night discussion habit. Hercules, I think your wife overreacted. She read too deeply into what your mother said, and made inferences. I also think that it is irrational for someone to use emotion to argue a case instead of logic. That's pretty much the definition: lacking logic, reason or intellect.
carhill Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 And, if you want to push the Hiroshima/Nagasaki button, merely use the phrase "emotion operating without the benefit of intellect" :D Fortunately, we're in a state of mutually assured destruction and the button never gets pushed
Author Hercules Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Thanks for all the replies, a lot of helpful hints in them all For those people who can't put up with the "shut up" comment well... sorry, but I didn't think it was too harsh when it was after the third time of telling her I didn't want to talk about it. She was upset at the time, and got me in an irritable mood (on purpose). We've talked it out and I'm hoping that it wont happen again. I think part of it is immaturity on her part, and on my part the fact that I was in sleep mode and I am not exactly 'sunshine' when I'm woken for an argument. Anyway it has passed for now, and we've been on very good terms so far -- I'm hoping it stays that way. Thanks for all your advice and jeez -- when women take the "rational creature" remark to the next level, that's just really stupid. Men have their own set of stupidity, and it's exclusive to them. Women are more emotional. That's just a fact. Now if you want to play the feminism card and say you're just as strong as men emotionally, or whatever.. that's fine. You won't convince me but I'm sure the hordes of mothers in army boots will be receptive to that kind of discussion.
lonelyandfrustrated Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Thanks for all the replies, a lot of helpful hints in them all For those people who can't put up with the "shut up" comment well... sorry, but I didn't think it was too harsh when it was after the third time of telling her I didn't want to talk about it. She was upset at the time, and got me in an irritable mood (on purpose). We've talked it out and I'm hoping that it wont happen again. I think part of it is immaturity on her part, and on my part the fact that I was in sleep mode and I am not exactly 'sunshine' when I'm woken for an argument. Anyway it has passed for now, and we've been on very good terms so far -- I'm hoping it stays that way. Thanks for all your advice and jeez -- when women take the "rational creature" remark to the next level, that's just really stupid. Men have their own set of stupidity, and it's exclusive to them. Women are more emotional. That's just a fact. Now if you want to play the feminism card and say you're just as strong as men emotionally, or whatever.. that's fine. You won't convince me but I'm sure the hordes of mothers in army boots will be receptive to that kind of discussion. I had to LOL at the part I bolded. In reference to your statement in the last para re: men have their own set of stupidity, I believe you've shown that with your hopes that she will suddenly become the kind of person who will keep her mouth shut all night. lol I feel for you, I really do, because I'm a pillow-talker, and here's why I do it: I don't want to nag or complain, I don't want to turn a nice dinner or movie or snuggle session into a three-hour discussion of something that I'm not 100% certain is even worth discussing. I try to reason with myself for hours that it's just not worth it to open that discussion (I'll just 'get over it'!), but then my head hits the pillow and my mind starts working and I believe that I need to find a resolution to the problem or I'll never get to sleep. Probably not the best way to think of it, but I figure, if it's an US problem and I'm going to be up all night anyway, may as well invite the hubby into the dilemma. "If I ain't sleepin', ain't NOBODY sleepin'!" If I figure out how to avoid that in the future, I'll let you know, so you can share a solution with your wife. My pillow discussions are usually something that's been bugging me for a long time (hours, days, years, lol), and the only real solution I've found recently is to just not give a crap anymore. That's not good.
almost famous Posted September 20, 2008 Posted September 20, 2008 yes, this last comment by Hercules has made it clear why there are problems and it isn't her.
mental_traveller Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 Options: Divorce Affair with some hottie at the office Separation Murder Have the patience of Job and ask your wife to tell you how you can stop having stupid arguments at 1am Keep quiet and smile patiently, saying "Yes dear" - remember to buy a glass for her to keep your balls in
soserious1 Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 During the last year of my marriage I slept on the sofa every night, spared me many of those upsetting late night discussions.
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