I see a pattern

[PWSX3]

I was reading Cheetah's thread & it is kind of the same situation I am in & I have noticed that seems to be very common in longer relationships/marriages.

 

Me being the thinker that I am I was just wondering why this is?

 

For me I didn't see it as controlling, me & the stbxw got married when we were 20 & she was very shy and so when I would ask her what she wanted to do she always said; I don't know or I don't care so it was up to me to decide what we did.

 

I also grew up in a family that did most of there own maintenance on the house, cars, etc. We didn't take it to get it fixed we fixed it ourselves so I grew up with the mind set of always trying to fix something myself first so when things were not good did I just try & fix them instead of listening to what she had to say?

 

So now we forward 20+ years or so & the wife decides that she has a mind, that she would like to make decisions but since I've always done it "I" don't listen to what she says so she doesn't say anything & as the years go by it just builds up inside here until one day she explodes.

 

A example is one day I was making lunches & we put our lunches in plastic bags from the store & I just tie the top. She said; I don't need mine tied just leave it loose. Without even thinking I go ahead and tied it. Now did I just not listen to what she said or as I saw it at my work we put parts in bags like that all day long so to me it was just automatic to tie the bag.

 

She didn't say anything at that time but then a couple days later we were talking about something & she brought it up that I don't listen to her and I tied her back when she told me not to.

 

I also feel that as men we want to protect our wives, but what we call protecting is that controlling to someone else?

 

The other day a co-worker was telling me she was talking to her boyfriend & she was explaining to him she did all the push mowing & just had the big part to finish with the tractor. He replied with; just leave it & I'll do it when I come over this evening. She got all mad because she saw it as him being controlling, not letting her do what she wanted because she enjoys the yard work.

 

He saw it as just being nice & helping out, which she didn't even realize until we were talking about it & that is how I saw it, he was just wanting to help. She also is divorced from someone she said was controlling.

 

Just some thoughts going thru my head this morning & maybe others have situations that are the same......

 

I know woman & men see things so much different but how or what can we do to get on the same page per say?????

 

I know this is something I'll need to work on.

[TrustInYourself]

Automatic = complacent.

[2sunny]

Automatic = complacent.

 

complacent = boring

 

unexpected = exciting

 

maybe this has something to do with it.

[Ronni_W]

got married when we were 20 & she was very shy and so when I would ask her what she wanted to do she always said; I don't know or I don't care so it was up to me to decide what we did.

Individuals (women AND men) who are afraid to express their own wants, needs and preferences are not necessarily just "shy". There's a slew of labels, of which one or more may apply. Basically, fear of being rejected if they don't "play nice" by just agreeing. People-pleasers. Conflict-avoiders. Peacekeepers. Needy. Co-dependent.

Also, fear of responsibility ~ if I don't choose/make a decision, I can't be "wrong" or get blamed for a bad outcome. Perfectionism. Needing to always be right or above reproach. Still fear of being rejected for not being "good enough", in some way.

 

But of course all the suppressed wants and needs and fears do build up within the psyche. It comes out in (as you said, "explodes" in) passive-aggressive behaviour. "Oh, poor me...I was only trying to be nice/useful/make things easier/not rock the boat. But. YOU! You are controlling and scary and you never listen. You just always want your own way. You decided this, and you chose that."

Hopefully when they get to that stage, they'll get some individual therapy to help with their underlying fears. But sometimes they just stay blaming those around them, and feeling self-righteous in their resentment.

forward 20+ years or so & the wife decides that she has a mind,

Do you realize how condescending and disrespectful is that thought, that you had there? Those are YOUR words, and thus likely an accurate portrayal of how you view your wife's newfound insight into herself. (Not that she is necessarily doing an effective job of expressing her new needs and desires, but that type of attitude on your part won't help matters at all.)

 

Do you suspect that it is true, that you do (or used to) ignore her and just decide on your own when and how to resolve things, when they weren't good? (Your family's tendency to fix stuff doesn't apply. That is totally different than collaborating to resolve relationship issues.)

 

I get that you just automatically sealed the lunch bag. But, if you did afterwards remember that she didn't want that, did you go back and unseal it?

I also feel that as men we want to protect our wives, but what we call protecting is that controlling to someone else?

It can be controlling, yes. It depends on all the other dynamics and attitudes and behaviours, and how everything is expressed as a whole. It can come across as kind and helpful or as, "You're too stupid/incompetent to protect yourself (or operate a lawn tractor.)"

 

My b/f is like that...he'll hardly let me lift a 5-pound bag of sugar. But the rest of our relationship makes it so that it's not a problem for me. I just say, "Oh yeah, I forgot. Me weak and puny girl...you big, strong He-man...me go knit and bake now." So, it really just depends on everything else.

I know woman & men see things so much different but how or what can we do to get on the same page per say?????

Let go of our own individual crap, need to be right, ideas that we know better than the other what is good for them, beliefs that our way of doing and thinking about things really is just the tops, stop blaming family-of-origin habits and "traditions" for our current-day crazy thoughts and actions.

 

Learn how to really, truly, deeply listen to others; and how to express our own wants, desires and preferences honestly and lovingly (and put this into practice with co-workers and strangers, too.) And seek win-win compromises and solutions. Most importantly, forgive the self when we forget to do all of this

[TrustInYourself]

Same page huh?

 

Well, do you understand your STBXW? What have you done to understand her? Her feelings or her perspective?

 

What actions create value for your relationship? Are these actions what create value from your perspective? What about her perspective? What actions create love and understanding for you both?

 

These are the kind of questions I ask myself frequently now. I know what my wife appreciates from me. I try to consistently meet those challenges because I know it helps create a stronger more loving bond for us both.

 

What I like and what she likes are totally different things. I have to make some effort, lol, to understand what she likes to do and how she feels. Communication is open.

 

I guess it helps quite a bit that my wife is very understanding and caring. That wasn't always the case though. I do my best to foster those feelings.

 

Is that any help?

[Kasan]

Ronni W--

 

I hope that the men really, read what you have written and take some of what you have written to heart.

 

It's exactly how I have felt, and luckily my outcome has a different ending.

 

You are spot on..............

[Ronni_W]

Ronni W-- I hope that the men really, read what you have written

Thanks, Kasan.

It would be terrific if WOmen who recognize themselves will also find something useful . I really do believe that 'fear of rejection' is a problem without borders or genders, as is using ineffective coping skills and resorting to non-productive ways of communicating and thinking. I see it as we are all, men, women and children, in the same boat and on the same page. Which is either a good thing or a bad thing...I am not sure .

[PWSX3]

Individuals (women AND men) who are afraid to express their own wants, needs and preferences are not necessarily just "shy". There's a slew of labels, of which one or more may apply. Basically, fear of being rejected if they don't "play nice" by just agreeing. People-pleasers. Conflict-avoiders. Peacekeepers. Needy. Co-dependent.

Also, fear of responsibility ~ if I don't choose/make a decision, I can't be "wrong" or get blamed for a bad outcome. Perfectionism. Needing to always be right or above reproach. Still fear of being rejected for not being "good enough", in some way.

I guess shy wasn't the correct word to use, I feel she fits in a lot of the categories that you listed.

She told me not to long ago that she felt like she was under her dad's thumb when she lived at home & when she was with me she was under my thumb.

But of course all the suppressed wants and needs and fears do build up within the psyche. It comes out in (as you said, "explodes" in) passive-aggressive behaviour. "Oh, poor me...I was only trying to be nice/useful/make things easier/not rock the boat. But. YOU! You are controlling and scary and you never listen. You just always want your own way. You decided this, and you chose that."

Hopefully when they get to that stage, they'll get some individual therapy to help with their underlying fears. But sometimes they just stay blaming those around them, and feeling self-righteous in their resentment.

 

Do you realize how condescending and disrespectful is that thought, that you had there? Those are YOUR words, and thus likely an accurate portrayal of how you view your wife's newfound insight into herself. (Not that she is necessarily doing an effective job of expressing her new needs and desires, but that type of attitude on your part won't help matters at all.)

No I didn't really mean it like that, again bad choice of words. When we separated she said she did figure out what she want, who she was but she never communicated any of that with me. I do feel she wanted to be part of the decision making but wasn't sure how to tell or ask me.

Do you suspect that it is true, that you do (or used to) ignore her and just decide on your own when and how to resolve things, when they weren't good? (Your family's tendency to fix stuff doesn't apply. That is totally different than collaborating to resolve relationship issues.)

I'm not sure, I might have not listened because I didn't like her answer but if I did it wasn't on purpose.

I get that you just automatically sealed the lunch bag. But, if you did afterwards remember that she didn't want that, did you go back and unseal it?

She actually said; see you don't listen to what I say and that is when I realized I had tied it up so I explained it to her & so she understood why I did it and yes I did untie it for her.

It can be controlling, yes. It depends on all the other dynamics and attitudes and behaviours, and how everything is expressed as a whole. It can come across as kind and helpful or as, "You're too stupid/incompetent to protect yourself (or operate a lawn tractor.)"

When we separated she wrecked her car so my dad & I fixed it for her. When we were done I was going to clean the inside out for her but a friend suggested that I didn't do that because that would show me being controlling. I didn't understand because I was wanting to make it look nice for her but as my friend explained to me that she would see it as your car is dirty & you are not cleaning it so here I had to clean it for you. For me I saw it as being nice but after she explained it to me I could see how the stbxw would have also seen it.

 

Now if we were getting along & things were O.K. & I did that then maybe the stbxw would have also seen it as a nice jester on my part.

My b/f is like that...he'll hardly let me lift a 5-pound bag of sugar. But the rest of our relationship makes it so that it's not a problem for me. I just say, "Oh yeah, I forgot. Me weak and puny girl...you big, strong He-man...me go knit and bake now." So, it really just depends on everything else.

 

Let go of our own individual crap, need to be right, ideas that we know better than the other what is good for them, beliefs that our way of doing and thinking about things really is just the tops, stop blaming family-of-origin habits and "traditions" for our current-day crazy thoughts and actions.

Yes this is one of the big things I want to work on, there is more then one way of doing something, my way doesn't need to always be the only way. I also would like to learn what other people do are not bad, just a different way they see doing something.

Learn how to really, truly, deeply listen to others; and how to express our own wants, desires and preferences honestly and lovingly (and put this into practice with co-workers and strangers, too.) And seek win-win compromises and solutions. Most importantly, forgive the self when we forget to do all of this

This is another hard one for me. I have noticed it is easier for me to listen to other people such as friends then it was to listen to the stbxw.

 

Thanks so much for this post, it really gives me things to think about...

 

I am taking some classes on divorce & there are a couple gals in there that must have Xh's that are a lot like I am because when they talk it sounds like they are talking to me, that is why I started this thread because I know of 4-5 woman that all feel there men were controlling & wouldn't listen to them.

 

This is an area I want to better myself on because I feel it will make me a lot better person around anyone.

 

Oh as for us getting back together, this is our third time, first she was going to move out we went to counseling, second she moved out then came back after 7 months, and this is the third time.

[TrustInYourself]

I guess shy wasn't the correct word to use, I feel she fits in a lot of the categories that you listed.

She told me not to long ago that she felt like she was under her dad's thumb when she lived at home & when she was with me she was under my thumb.

 

No I didn't really mean it like that, again bad choice of words. When we separated she said she did figure out what she want, who she was but she never communicated any of that with me. I do feel she wanted to be part of the decision making but wasn't sure how to tell or ask me.

 

I'm not sure, I might have not listened because I didn't like her answer but if I did it wasn't on purpose.

 

She actually said; see you don't listen to what I say and that is when I realized I had tied it up so I explained it to her & so she understood why I did it and yes I did untie it for her.

 

When we separated she wrecked her car so my dad & I fixed it for her. When we were done I was going to clean the inside out for her but a friend suggested that I didn't do that because that would show me being controlling. I didn't understand because I was wanting to make it look nice for her but as my friend explained to me that she would see it as your car is dirty & you are not cleaning it so here I had to clean it for you. For me I saw it as being nice but after she explained it to me I could see how the stbxw would have also seen it.

 

Now if we were getting along & things were O.K. & I did that then maybe the stbxw would have also seen it as a nice jester on my part.

 

Yes this is one of the big things I want to work on, there is more then one way of doing something, my way doesn't need to always be the only way. I also would like to learn what other people do are not bad, just a different way they see doing something.

 

This is another hard one for me. I have noticed it is easier for me to listen to other people such as friends then it was to listen to the stbxw.

 

Thanks so much for this post, it really gives me things to think about...

 

I am taking some classes on divorce & there are a couple gals in there that must have Xh's that are a lot like I am because when they talk it sounds like they are talking to me, that is why I started this thread because I know of 4-5 woman that all feel there men were controlling & wouldn't listen to them.

 

This is an area I want to better myself on because I feel it will make me a lot better person around anyone.

 

Oh as for us getting back together, this is our third time, first she was going to move out we went to counseling, second she moved out then came back after 7 months, and this is the third time.

 

Hope is not lost, if we truly desire change in ourselves. My thoughts at least, lol.

[GreenEyedLady]

Is anyone here perfect?

 

I think we all find our way through life just doing the best we can.

 

And sometimes our partner doesn't want to take responsibility for not wanting to be with their spouse anymore and instead makes it their mate's fault...

 

Who gives a rat's a** about sealing the sandwich bag?! Big scheme of things doesn't mean a thing...Except maybe she should make the sandwiches next time if she's dissatisfied with how you do it...

 

I think you're reading too much into it...She is grasping at straws if the reason she wants to divorce you is because you sealed her sandwich bag. And anyone who argues that's controlling behavior, has no idea what controlling behavior is.

 

Look at it this way. If she can't tell the difference between doing something nice for someone and being controlling do you really think you're compatible? And when was the last time she did something nice for you, and listened to how you felt?

[ilmw]

Is anyone here perfect?

 

I think we all find our way through life just doing the best we can.

 

And sometimes our partner doesn't want to take responsibility for not wanting to be with their spouse anymore and instead makes it their mate's fault...

 

Who gives a rat's a** about sealing the sandwich bag?! Big scheme of things doesn't mean a thing...Except maybe she should make the sandwiches next time if she's dissatisfied with how you do it...

 

I think you're reading too much into it...She is grasping at straws if the reason she wants to divorce you is because you sealed her sandwich bag. And anyone who argues that's controlling behavior, has no idea what controlling behavior is.

 

Look at it this way. If she can't tell the difference between doing something nice for someone and being controlling do you really think you're compatible? And when was the last time she did something nice for you, and listened to how you felt?

 

Thanks Green eyes! You saved me from making a lot of typos.... and grammatical errors and said the same thing....lol

[ilmw]

I have been following PW since he came on LS.

 

He was like most of us.. clutching at straws... grasping a whispers of hope or slim chance that things will work out.

 

He did a lot of changes... followed a lot of advise... Manned up! etc

 

Things came around... he and his wife got back together... things seemed fine at first.... but he then started to hint... that he had done these changes for him... to make him a better person... but was noticing... his wife had done nothing... she remained the same... even though she had the opportunity to see the benefit of self improvement.... for herself... and her relationship with her husband..... it kinda sounded like to much hard work.

 

I can only speak from what I have read.

 

PW..... seems to have busted his butt.... while his wife just sat on hers... (please don't take offense PW.... just a play on words)

 

I applaud PW for what he had done... and what he has tried to do.... he asked the questions... and did his best to apply what he had learned... He did not ask the same questions over and over again.... not do anything suggested... and wonder why things were the same... (now that would be stupid right)??

 

I could go on... but I think... well I hope I got a point across.

 

Yeah...PW! (I tend to rant when I am tired.......)

 

ilmw

[Ronni_W]

one of the big things I want to work on, there is more then one way of doing something, my way doesn't need to always be the only way. I also would like to learn what other people do are not bad, just a different way ... This is another hard one for me. I have noticed it is easier for me to listen to other people such as friends then it was to listen to the stbxw.

It's not just men who are the (maladaptive) decision-makers...it just depends on the individual's personality and prior experiences. In my case, it was the (ex)Hubby who was afraid to express his true desires and preferences...and me who just always asserted my "right and good" judgments and ways of doing things.

 

I hear you say that you "want to work on" but, of course, it needs more than that. When you hear yourself saying, "that is what I AM WORKING ON," then you know you are actually getting somewhere .

And it seems that you've already LEARNED that others' ways of thinking about and doing things are not "wrong" just different. So now you have to start REMEMBERING that, and putting it into practice in your daily life.

 

Divorce classes are great for the 'healing & grieving' part. But I found that one can LEARN better ways of relating to people in such workshops and courses as: conflict resolution, stress management, effective communications, business negotiations, and anger management. (Even if you don't particularly have "anger issues", the tools for anger management can be applied in many every-day interactions.)

 

Good luck. It's a challenging undertaking but well worth the trip, in my experience.