he'd rather watch porn than have sex with me

[Arielyn]

hi all,

 

i'm kinda regretful that this is my very first post at this forum, but i just needed some input on a matter that has been bugging me for quite some time now. [i'm really not sure if i'm posting this thread in the right place, and i apologize if this ought to belong in the subcategory instead].

 

i've been with my boyfriend for 1.5 years now and we've been relatively happy. sure, we've had squabbles and such, but nothing that lasted past a couple of days. he's very doting most of the time and there hasn't been a day that we've not told each other "i love you".

 

however, there's an issue that i have yet to come to terms with and that is with the fact that he used to watch a lot of porn. i mean, i know. which heterosexual, hot-blooded guy doesn't watch porn? [we're both 22 years old this year]. seriously, before i even got attached, i thought that i'd be totally cool with it. but i realized that i wasn't. i'm neither fat nor ugly, but i know my own physical limitations and it kinda sucks to know that out of the many many naked female bodies that he has seen, mine is possibly the least attractive. he knew that i was unhappy, so he promised me that he'd get rid of his collection and he did. but sometime before our first year anniversary, i discovered that he had returned to porn again and he even had pictures of skinny girls.. not the likes of porn actresses, but girls that you'd see on the streets anywhere. i was really hurt because, well.. a promise's a promise.. what's the use of promising me something if you don't follow it through? i guess it's an issue of trust as well. i know i'm making an issue out of something that shouldn't matter, but i can't help my own insecurities.

 

furthermore, i know that he's a person with a rather high sex drive, as am i. however, nowadays, i feel as if he doesn't get aroused by me anymore. i could be wearing a top which exposes my entire cleavage, or i could be frenching him and not get a single reaction. sex isn't something that happens often either. i find it hard to believe that he isn't in the mood at all, since he is rather horny by nature, and that has got me to believe that he just isn't sexually aroused by me. which leads to his need for porn. and what really gets to me is that when we do actually do the dirty, i wonder if he's simply superimposing the face and body of a porn actress or some other skinny chick onto me. i'm a topshop size 10/12.. but where i come from, it's the size 6s who are the attractive ones.. and judging from his choice in porn, i know he prefers the skinnier girls too.

 

he always tells me that i'm perfect as i am, and that i don't need to lose weight. but i can't help wondering if it's even the truth at all. i've tried my best to exercise and to shed some of the fat off my bones, but i'm not physically fit so it's hard to get into a proper exercise regime. sigh. and he sabotages every diet that i try to maintain.

 

i just don't know. am i being overly paranoid? it's not like i don't dress up, lately i've been wearing clothes that are more revealing and i go for salsa classes with my female friends. so i don't think i'm *that* unattractive. but the fact is that i hardly ever arouse him anymore.

 

other than this issue though, everything is more or less fine between the both of us. i don't know if i should even raise the topic with him because i don't want to run the risk of making a mountain out of a molehill. yet i hate feeling all unattractive like a fat blimp.

 

what should i do?

[ianandris]

Do something different. Porn is NOT a sufficient substitute for healthy sexual activity. But, it does provide a change of pace. If you keep your sex life diverse and interesting, you'll probably find his interest in pornography will diminish. Keep in mind, though, that a lot of time men go to porn because it's easy. Sometimes, a quick session with porn serves to take the edge off in a way that regular sex can't. It's quick, it's relatively clean, and it doesn't take a whole lot of effort emotionally or physically. Try not to take it personally if you can help it. I'm sure he finds you attractive. 10/12 is dead on for the national average and, as I recall, Marilyn Monroe was a size 12.

 

The big concern I would have is that he made a promise to abandon porn and he went back to it. As you said, a promise is a promise. You need to know that you can trust a promise.

[FormerNiceGuy]

You won't like my reply.

 

But generally, once the attraction is gone, it's gone.

[Arielyn]

You won't like my reply.

 

But generally, once the attraction is gone, it's gone.

 

that's okay, you won't like mine either.

 

tell me something i don't already know.

[Jersey Shortie]

Do something different. Porn is NOT a sufficient substitute for healthy sexual activity. But, it does provide a change of pace. If you keep your sex life diverse and interesting, you'll probably find his interest in pornography will diminish. Keep in mind, though, that a lot of time men go to porn because it's easy. Sometimes, a quick session with porn serves to take the edge off in a way that regular sex can't.

 

Anytime a woman asks for advice about dealing with a partner that views porn too much she is told to basically: "Work harder! He's allowed to be lazy and indulge in porn but if you work that much harder he *might* view it *less*". How is this fair or right? Why shoud women work harder to "mix it up" if he will only possibly view it less? What is the point? What work do men have to put into this? Do most men expect that they have to make any effort at all or do men just want women to do all the work? I just don't understand how you can make excuses for porn because it's easy, diverse and fun and in the same paragraphy tell a woman that she is the one that needs to not be lazy and work at it for some mere table scraps about the possiblity that he *might* view it *less*. It seems that most men now-a-days are more interested in pleasing themselves, sexual laziness and not about truly being a good, passionate partner to their mate.

[ianandris]

I don't know why her man is looking at porn. It may be because he is dissatisfied with sex, so he turns to porn. In that case, the answer is to, as you say, "work harder". Is it fair? Not really. But, if the tables were turned, and that happens quite often, what would the solution be? If she were apparently bored with sex, and he was trying to figure out what to do, what would you tell him? Would you tell him to be indignant and angry that she was just lying there during sex, that she was withholding? Would you label her as lazy? No. You would encourage him to do something different, too. You would encourage him to try to find out why his partner is behaving the way she is behaving. You would encourage him to find ways to relight that fire. I don't see how it's any different in this case. The fact that porn is involved is incidental.

 

Furthermore, I was simply trying to explain how some men use porn, and if her SO is using it that way, she shouldn't take it personally. For most men, porn is porn, and your partner is your partner, and sex is sex. They stay compartmentalized.

 

I'm not trying to defend his use of porn. If it's causing problems in the relationship, then he should stop using it, no question about it. BUT, I think it's important not to mischaracterize what's going on. Having a clear understanding of what's happening is essential to working through these kinds of challenges.

[dcgirl33]

I think porn does distorte a males view of healthy sexual realtions. You can't be like the porn stars. Ask him what it is he likes about it or watch what he's watching and see if they all have a common theme like a fetish or a particular sex act. If so, see if that is something that you would feel comfortable doing. make love to him the way he (a man) wants it and he should make love to you the way a woman wants it. It's important that men veiew female porn and women view male porn so that we can know what ggenerally turns the opposite sex on.

[Jersey Shortie]

You would encourage him to do something different, too. You would encourage him to try to find out why his partner is behaving the way she is behaving. You would encourage him to find ways to relight that fire. I don't see how it's any different in this case. The fact that porn is involved is incidental

 

I think they both should be working to make it more exciting. If she is working harder to please him sexually and he is being excused for looking at porn and it is being justified (as I find most men seem to justify porn in the same breath they tell women to "work harder" in the sex department), that's not fair and that isn't what a relationship is about. If she is making the effort, he needs to make the effort and contribute as well. Because if she is the only one making the effort she is going to get to a point where she sees that she is getting very little in return for her efforsts. And neither a man or women want to put effort in something that their efforts aren't being returned. You advise her to work harder at the sex, I have no issue with that. What I have issue with is the lack of effort that is expected and excused in men when it comes to sex.."it's okay if he looks at porn, he needs that because sometimes he just wants to be lazy about it, you as the woman shoudl be mixing it up, making it mor ecrazy, doing all you can do so that he *might* *possibly* view porn less." Gee, sign me up for that!

 

Furthermore, I was simply trying to explain how some men use porn, and if her SO is using it that way, she shouldn't take it personally. For most men, porn is porn, and your partner is your partner, and sex is sex. They stay compartmentalized.

 

I think men like to think they compartmentalize it. But when they want to do the things they see in the porn movie wit htheir partner, when they use the porn as a device to excite themselves to have sex with their partner, when they put the women in the porn movies on a pedestal of looks that they don't think their partner meets, it isnt' as compartmentalized as men would like to think of themselves. Heck, so many men defend porn. That isn't compartmentalization, that is association. You give that advice that she shouldn't take it personally because it's not personal. but a woman could just as easily tell a man that he SHOULd take it personally because she takes it personally. Men don't take it personally because it isn't about all the ways that women wished men were that don't reach unrealistic expectations. Porn IS about all the ways women lack that don't reach male fantasy expectations. We watch the men we love loving porn, enjoying it, saying how muc hthey love porn, and we are not suppose to wonder how he views those women compared to us? That is 100% unrealistic. Just as it is unrealistic to ask women to not take it personally just because men don't take it pesronally when porn is for the most part, not about what women from men. When porn for the most part is about men being incontrol and in the driving seat of woman's sexuality. To ask a woman to not take it personally because a man doesn't is like asking a man to take it personally because a woman can.

[JoeNewbie]

Asking a guy not to ever watch porn again is almost like asking him to never masturbate again. You are setting yourself up for failure.

 

Porn is just porn, nothing else.

[Jersey Shortie]

Yes agreed. I do think most women are aware that most men are more loyal to porn then they are real live breathing women. That unfortunetly is how most men are today.

 

Although I doubt most men would be saying porn is just porn if it was men being called names and being treated like nothing more then a couple holes.

[High Plains Drifter]

hi all,

 

i'm kinda regretful that this is my very first post at this forum, but i just needed some input on a matter that has been bugging me for quite some time now. [i'm really not sure if i'm posting this thread in the right place, and i apologize if this ought to belong in the subcategory instead].

 

i've been with my boyfriend for 1.5 years now and we've been relatively happy. sure, we've had squabbles and such, but nothing that lasted past a couple of days. he's very doting most of the time and there hasn't been a day that we've not told each other "i love you".

 

however, there's an issue that i have yet to come to terms with and that is with the fact that he used to watch a lot of porn. i mean, i know. which heterosexual, hot-blooded guy doesn't watch porn? [we're both 22 years old this year]. seriously, before i even got attached, i thought that i'd be totally cool with it. but i realized that i wasn't. i'm neither fat nor ugly, but i know my own physical limitations and it kinda sucks to know that out of the many many naked female bodies that he has seen, mine is possibly the least attractive. he knew that i was unhappy, so he promised me that he'd get rid of his collection and he did. but sometime before our first year anniversary, i discovered that he had returned to porn again and he even had pictures of skinny girls.. not the likes of porn actresses, but girls that you'd see on the streets anywhere. i was really hurt because, well.. a promise's a promise.. what's the use of promising me something if you don't follow it through? i guess it's an issue of trust as well. i know i'm making an issue out of something that shouldn't matter, but i can't help my own insecurities.

 

furthermore, i know that he's a person with a rather high sex drive, as am i. however, nowadays, i feel as if he doesn't get aroused by me anymore. i could be wearing a top which exposes my entire cleavage, or i could be frenching him and not get a single reaction. sex isn't something that happens often either. i find it hard to believe that he isn't in the mood at all, since he is rather horny by nature, and that has got me to believe that he just isn't sexually aroused by me. which leads to his need for porn. and what really gets to me is that when we do actually do the dirty, i wonder if he's simply superimposing the face and body of a porn actress or some other skinny chick onto me. i'm a topshop size 10/12.. but where i come from, it's the size 6s who are the attractive ones.. and judging from his choice in porn, i know he prefers the skinnier girls too.

 

he always tells me that i'm perfect as i am, and that i don't need to lose weight. but i can't help wondering if it's even the truth at all. i've tried my best to exercise and to shed some of the fat off my bones, but i'm not physically fit so it's hard to get into a proper exercise regime. sigh. and he sabotages every diet that i try to maintain.

 

i just don't know. am i being overly paranoid? it's not like i don't dress up, lately i've been wearing clothes that are more revealing and i go for salsa classes with my female friends. so i don't think i'm *that* unattractive. but the fact is that i hardly ever arouse him anymore.

 

other than this issue though, everything is more or less fine between the both of us. i don't know if i should even raise the topic with him because i don't want to run the risk of making a mountain out of a molehill. yet i hate feeling all unattractive like a fat blimp.

 

what should i do?

 

 

I get the feeling that you're main problem is that you feel fat. Not getting sex makes you feel fat.

 

I think you oughta LOSE SOME WEIGHT. Stop making excuses like "he sabatoges my diets." WHO puts food in your mouth? If you're "not physically fit" then are you surprised he's not physically attracted???? You ain't gonna get any MORE physically fit saying "I cannot excersise 'cause I'm not physically fit!

[ianandris]

I think they both should be working to make it more exciting.

 

I agree.

 

If she is working harder to please him sexually and he is being excused for looking at porn and it is being justified (as I find most men seem to justify porn in the same breath they tell women to "work harder" in the sex department), that's not fair and that isn't what a relationship is about.

 

Relationships are about caring for the other person. Sometimes people are better equipped to do that than at other times. I would never expect a relationship I'm in to be 100 percent "fair" or 50/50. It's unrealistic. In order for that to happen, you have to keep some sort of tally, and as soon as you do that you're not working with a person, you're working against a person. You're establishing "sides". I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't be required to put in effort. No question about it he needs to contribute in a substantial and meaningful way, but you can't demand effort from someone and expect it to be peachy. You can influence them, and the way you influence them is by the things that YOU choose to do (working harder, if you will. Better yet, working smarter.). If you're committed to a relationship, you should be willing to put in more effort than the other person at times with the expectation that they will do the same for you if, for some reason, you are in a different place, facing challenges or whatever. Relationships aren't "fair". Not saying you should subject yourself to a consistent pattern of mistreatment, but have some endurance. Working through problems requires patience and a commitment to the other person and, sometimes, more effort from one party.

 

What I have issue with is the lack of effort that is expected and excused in men when it comes to sex.

 

I think THAT's unfair. Lack of effort is neither excused OR justified simply because he's a man. This situation could be just as easily flipped on its head, roles reversed.

 

"it's okay if he looks at porn, he needs that because sometimes he just wants to be lazy about it, you as the woman should be mixing it up, making it more crazy, doing all you can do so that he *might* *possibly* view porn less." Gee, sign me up for that!

 

It has nothing to do with being a man or woman in this instance. The issue isn't porn as much as it is a perceived lack of sexual interest on his part. The way you rekindle sexual interest is by making it as interesting as possible.

 

I think men like to think they compartmentalize it. But when they want to do the things they see in the porn movie wit htheir partner, when they use the porn as a device to excite themselves to have sex with their partner, when they put the women in the porn movies on a pedestal of looks that they don't think their partner meets, it isnt' as compartmentalized as men would like to think of themselves.

 

You make a couple fair points. Porn shouldn't be used as a substitution for one's partner in any degree. Some men, admittedly, DO cross that boundary. That's why I qualified my statements saying that "most" men do compartmentalize things fairly well. However, just like any vice, it can be abused and misused. The abuse of pornography, just like the abuse of alcohol or drugs, is dangerous and wrong. BUT, you make the assumption that those behaviors are the inevitable consequence of looking at pornographic material, and there is no basis for that assumption. Yes, there are men who abuse pornogrpahy, but I would submit that there are FAR more responsible users of pornography than abusers.

 

You give that advice that she shouldn't take it personally because it's not personal. but a woman could just as easily tell a man that he SHOULd take it personally because she takes it personally.

 

And that's why we need to try to understand each other rather than take unwavering opposing view points. You can't understand someone if you're shouting at them from across the aisle. If a man says, "don't take it personally", maybe, try to understand why he thinks that way instead of, well, taking it personally. Likewise, it's a man's responsibility to empathize as much as possible, try to understand why his partner has such strong feelings about the use of pornography and try to see things from her view point.

 

Men don't take it personally because it isn't about all the ways that women wished men were that don't reach unrealistic expectations. Porn IS about all the ways women lack that don't reach male fantasy expectations.

 

How is that any different from Cosmopolitan and Redbook and all those other women's magazines that tell women what is acceptable and what isn't from their partner? You don't think that men are subjected to "unrealistic female fantasy expectations" derived from media sources either?

He must be this tall, have this amount of money, this kind of job, no kids, this car, etc etc etc so on and so forth. Must be fun and flirty and interesting and witty and never boring and he must be charming and have hair and be sensitive, but not too sensitive, and manly, but not brutish, and cultured and blah blah blah. Do you have any idea how hard it is to meet those kind expectations for your average guy? The difference, however, is in the way men handle it. We think, "Well, I am what I am. I'm doing my best, that'll have to be enough. If she likes me, cool. If not, oh well. There are other girls" We don't demand that women discard media influences because they make us feel insecure. And, really, that's all it boils down to. Porn use makes some women feel insecure, and, rather than work on THAT issue, they demand that their men stop the behavior which makes them feel insecure. Many guys are willing to do it out of consideration for their SO, but the basics don't change.

 

We watch the men we love loving porn, enjoying it, saying how muc hthey love porn, and we are not suppose to wonder how he views those women compared to us?

 

Basically, yeah, because It's NOT A COMPARISON. Fact is, most guys, unless they've crossed the line into the abuse of porn, are quite capable of distinguishing between the fantasy world of porn, and the realities of relationships.

 

That is 100% unrealistic.

 

I disagree.

[Jersey Shortie]

other than this issue though, everything is more or less fine between the both of us. i don't know if i should even raise the topic with him because i don't want to run the risk of making a mountain out of a molehill. yet i hate feeling all unattractive like a fat blimp.

 

what should i do?

 

You should address the issues in your relationship with him and his lying. Ask him how he would feel if it was you looking at porn of young, hot guys that were his physical opposite. I see so many women ask if they should just bury their feelings because they are being "silly". You aren't silly to be a female and have certain ideas and feelings on a subject even if you think those are in opposite of your boyfriends. I would also suggest doing something for yourself to make yourself feel better if you feel unattractive. When you feel godo about yourself it really changes many components of your life then just the physical.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You can influence them, and the way you influence them is by the things that YOU choose to do (working harder, if you will. Better yet, working smarter.).

 

Yes, you can either influence your partner for the better or for their worse. Often, a man's porn use can influences his partner in a negative manner. But this is something that alot of men are unwilling to admit is true.

 

Working through problems requires patience and a commitment to the other person and, sometimes, more effort from one party.

 

I agree. My issue is with the advice that "hey it's all good, men are lazy and it's okay if they view porn when they want to be lazy." Then women are told that they need to work harder and be mroe exciting in the sex department so that he *might* *possibly* few porn *less*. He doesn't even stop viewing it all even when we put alot of effort into it! That's the payment alot of women get. Minimal loyalty on his part.

 

 

That's why I qualified my statements saying that "most" men do compartmentalize things fairly well.

 

I disagree and think most men *think* the compartmentalize it but with the amount of men that make porn a regular part of their life, want to do the activities they see in porn, and look at it much mroe then any other men in this porint in history, I don't think men are doing that good a job compartmentalizing it as they would like to think. I actually also think more men abuse porn and are addicted to it then would ever admit.

 

If a man says, "don't take it personally", maybe, try to understand why he thinks that way instead of, well, taking it personally. Likewise, it's a man's responsibility to empathize as much as possible, try to understand why his partner has such strong feelings about the use of pornography and try to see things from her view point.

 

Most men rarely if ever make a strong choice to try and empathize with women on the issue of pornography. most men defend porn over real women again and again and again. Most women just want their guy to be on their side instead of on the side of porn. but that is rarely how it works out.

 

If not, oh well. There are other girls" We don't demand that women discard media influences because they make us feel insecure. And, really, that's all it boils down to. Porn use makes some women feel insecure, and, rather than work on THAT issue, they demand that their men stop the behavior which makes them feel insecure. Many guys are willing to do it out of consideration for their SO, but the basics don't change.

 

Cosmo doesn't call men names and degrade them like porn often does with women. Would you want your daughter in a porno? Most likely not. Would you mind if your daughter was in Cosmo? Most likely not. Do guys really have a hard time understanding why porn makes us feel insecure about our bodies, less attractive to our mates and in competitions with a fantasy that we can't live up to? Did you ever think that a woman wants to be her mans' fantasy? Instead of that getting delegaded to some woman that never did anything for him? It is not all about insecurity although I agree that that is part of it. It's hard to feel that you can trust a man and be vunerable with him when he likes using a medium that dispresects women.

 

 

Basically, yeah, because It's NOT A COMPARISON. Fact is, most guys, unless they've crossed the line into the abuse of porn, are quite capable of distinguishing between the fantasy world of porn, and the realities of relationships.

 

And the fantasy is always better then the reality isn't it. Whats better then some fake implanted 20 year old servicing you for your pleasure completely with littler regard to her well being then a boring girlfriend that doesn't have fake perfect breasts and actually has a brain and feelings. I even wonder why men bother with real realtionships since what men really want is some fantasy ideal that is nothign about what real women are about. most men are more addicted to porn then they care to admit to themselves.

[rod_in_gtown]

Porn is just porn... Unless you consciously make more out of it than what it is. We like to watch it, just like women romantic movies or chick-flicks.

You're treating it as "the other woman" when it really isn't. Now I don't know why he's watching it but if he has had a collection of it in the past then he probably likes it. This doesn't mean that he doesn't want you anymore or that he wants to go and have sex with the size 6 next door.

 

I say if you find size 6 panties around THEN start to worry. I think it's much more healthier to use porn to indulge in your fantasies than actually going out and engaging in risky behavior.

[ianandris]

Yes, you can either influence your partner for the better or for their worse. Often, a man's porn use can influences his partner in a negative manner. But this is something that alot of men are unwilling to admit is true.

I'm sure of it. It's just like any other vice. Porn use can influence his partner negatively just like drug use and alcohol use can. Would you speak out against alcohol the same way you do against porn?

 

I agree. My issue is with the advice that "hey it's all good, men are lazy and it's okay if they view porn when they want to be lazy."

That's a misrepresentation of my position. There are a lot of reasons (lack of energy, lack of desire for intercourse, depresssion, lonliness (happens in relationships, too) lack of time, etc) that he might prefer pornography over the physical act of sex from time to time and while some of them may be problems, some of them are simply circumstantial. Address the root of the behavior rather than simply condemning the behavior.

 

Most men rarely if ever make a strong choice to try and empathize with women on the issue of pornography. most men defend porn over real women again and again and again. Most women just want their guy to be on their side instead of on the side of porn. but that is rarely how it works out.

The pretext of your argument is that it's women vs pornography, but men who use pornography don't see it that way at all. If you don't start with the same basic pretext, you'll be talking past each other endlessly and nothing will get resolved.

 

Furthermore, painting that behavior as inherently misogynistic has the effect of painting all men who use it as misogynists. By framing your argument the way you frame it, basically, you're saying "you're a misogynist. Admit it, apologize for it, and change." This, of course, is ridiculous. These men are usually NOT misogynistic at all, and when painted in those colors, being labeled in a way that they think is patently ridiculous, it's really hard for them to take your contention seriously. You'll never achieve what you're trying to achieve by approaching the discussion that way.

 

Believe it or not, men want women to be on their side, too. There isn't a real conflict of interest here. The conflict is that these women don't want the men in their lives to look at pornography, primarliy because it makes them feel insecure, and men want women to accept them for who they are, warts and all, virtues and vices alike.

 

Cosmo doesn't call men names and degrade them like porn often does with women.

Red herring. Cosmo is not porn, porn is not cosmo. BUT, they both can have the effect of creating unreasonable expectations in a partner.

 

Would you want your daughter in a porno? Most likely not. Would you mind if your daughter was in Cosmo? Most likely not.

I've got a little niece and the idea her in a porno would make me sick to my stomach, no question about it. However, catching word that she'd had sex outside of wedlock would have the same effect. In an ideal world, porn wouldn't exist at all, virtue would rule the day. It is a vice, no question about it, and vices are harmful. BUT, to say that it is entirely misogynistic is just inaccurate.

 

Do guys really have a hard time understanding why porn makes us feel insecure about our bodies, less attractive to our mates and in competitions with a fantasy that we can't live up to?

I think most men understand that quite well, they just think it's ridiculous. You're NOT in competition with a fantasy.

 

Did you ever think that a woman wants to be her mans' fantasy?

Is your man your fantasy in every case? You've never had thoughts of being with someone else? Ever? If so, you're a rare woman. Furthermore, do your fantasies include all of his imperfections? Do all your fantasies take place in your bedroom? In your living room?

 

Fantasies are fantasies because they are fantastic. Unrealistic. Unobtainable. Distant.

 

The fact is, no one in a monogamous relationship, will ever have or should have exclusive right over the fantasy life of his/her partner. It's unrealistic to ask for or expect that kind of control. What goes on in his head is his business. It's sovereign territory. Likewise for you.

 

It is not all about insecurity although I agree that that is part of it. It's hard to feel that you can trust a man and be vunerable with him when he likes using a medium that dispresects women.

That depends on how you view pornography, I guess.

 

And the fantasy is always better then the reality isn't it. Whats better then some fake implanted 20 year old servicing you for your pleasure completely with littler regard to her well being then a boring girlfriend that doesn't have fake perfect breasts and actually has a brain and feelings.

OF COURSE THE FANTASY IS ALWAYS BETTER! It HAS to be! If it isn't, what's the point of fantasizing? However, and this one will throw you for a loop, more often than not the reality is preferable to the fantasy. For instance: I love Arrested Development. Funny show. I love the characters. I like watching them. But would I want to have anything to do with them at all? Would I want them as my family? As friends? The answer is no. Simply enjoying something doesn't mean you want it to be real. Fantasy is escapism. It's an out. A way to leave reality behind. But in nearly every case, reality is preferred. Reality is rewarding. Would a blowjob from a 20 year old with perfect boobs be enjoyable? Sure. But I'd much rather have a fulfilling sexual relationship with an imperfect, "boring" girl with a brain and feelings.

 

I even wonder why men bother with real realtionships since what men really want is some fantasy ideal that is nothign about what real women are about. most men are more addicted to porn then they care to admit to themselves.

If you honestly question why men bother with real relationships, maybe you don't understand men as well as you think you do.

[Dirk Diggler]

however, there's an issue that i have yet to come to terms with and that is with the fact that he used to watch a lot of porn. i mean, i know. which heterosexual, hot-blooded guy doesn't watch porn?

 

Zero

 

[we're both 22 years old this year]. seriously, before i even got attached, i thought that i'd be totally cool with it. but i realized that i wasn't. i'm neither fat nor ugly, but i know my own physical limitations and it kinda sucks to know that out of the many many naked female bodies that he has seen, mine is possibly the least attractive. he knew that i was unhappy, so he promised me that he'd get rid of his collection and he did. but sometime before our first year anniversary, i discovered that he had returned to porn again and he even had pictures of skinny girls.. not the likes of porn actresses, but girls that you'd see on the streets anywhere. i was really hurt because, well.. a promise's a promise.. what's the use of promising me something if you don't follow it through? i guess it's an issue of trust as well. i know i'm making an issue out of something that shouldn't matter, but i can't help my own insecurities.

 

More like are you working to relieve the sexual tension that's built up in the relationship? If it's spilling over into fantasy, of course the majority of guys have fantasized about a delicious pin up girl or hot porn actress with huge boobs to let go of a load. The problem is that's where it starts and finishes, it's not like the actress is making service calls direct to your boyfriend. But some women take it way too personal and decide to spit venom when the word porn is mentioned. Otherwise leave him to his fantasy, it's not for you to intrude unless you note a drastic effect on your relationship as a whole. Too many women flip out and take such things way too personal and this is a result of their own issues and insecurities. In which they need to get over.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Perhaps it isn't your body he isn't attracted to so much as it is your attitude toward it. Confidence is a turn on for most men. A lack of it is a decided turn off, particularly when it becomes something that he begins to bear the burden for.

 

I don't think he jerks it to porn because he isn't attracted to your body. I think he jerks it to porn because it is an emotionally and physically simpler process - he gets the same end product without all of the angst.

 

That said, jerking it to porn instead of having sex is not acceptable. You and he both need to figure out how you and he can work out something where you get your confidence back, and he stops turning on the porn (at the very least stops turning it on instead of turning to you.)

[Jersey Shortie]

Porn is just porn... Unless you consciously make more out of it than what it is. We like to watch it, just like women romantic movies or chick-flicks.

 

Romantic movies an chick-flicks are comparable to slap stick comedies and action films for guys, not porn.

 

This doesn't mean that he doesn't want you anymore or that he wants to go and have sex with the size 6 next door.

 

Did you ask him personally? How do you know it doesn't mean that to him?

 

 

I think it's much more healthier to use porn to indulge in your fantasies than actually going out and engaging in risky behavior.

 

Considering the amount of porn that is easy to access today, and the amount that men today spend looking at it, and how porn has developed with the increase need for more out there fantasies and stuff, I wouldn't be so sure of that. It seems the only two options most women get is he actually goes out and screws around on you, or he has fantasies where he only wishes he was screwing around on you. So in all honestly, this makes me question why men even bother with real realtionships. Do guys like want to hurt women and make us feel insignificant?

 

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I'm sure of it. It's just like any other vice. Porn use can influence his partner negatively just like drug use and alcohol use can. Would you speak out against alcohol the same way you do against porn?

 

If you don't understand why porn can be a particularly senstive subject for women, then you don't understand men or women very well. Yes drugs and alcohol can obviously effect relationships as well. No one said otherwise. But by illustrating this fact, does not take away from the real facts of how porn can and does effect relationships. The women that come on here have the average typical everyday boyfriends and husbands.

 

 

That's a misrepresentation of my position. There are a lot of reasons (lack of energy, lack of desire for intercourse, depresssion, lonliness (happens in relationships, too) lack of time, etc) that he might prefer pornography over the physical act of sex from time to time and while some of them may be problems, some of them are simply circumstantial. Address the root of the behavior rather than simply condemning the behavior.

 

I think your position is that it's okay for men to be lazy sometimes and use porn but a woman should work hard to encourage actual sex with her partner even when he isn't doing his part. And he still will want to use porn despite her efforts. The behavior, whether you would like to admit it or not, is part of the problem. And it is quite possible that his porn use is infact the root of the problem.

 

The pretext of your argument is that it's women vs pornography...

,

 

Sometimes that is how it is. There are so many women on here that feel betrayed and hurt. And at the end of the day it is always the porn that seems to get defended. It is rather hurtful. You also have to consider the fact that porn isn't exactly pro-women. It's pro-idealized male fantasy. Not what real women are about or what having a woman in your life is about. It is often also very degrogatory towards women. POrn doesn't treat women very nicely.

 

 

....but men who use pornography don't see it that way at all. If you don't start with the same basic pretext, you'll be talking past each other endlessly and nothing will get resolved.

 

Maybe it's not the way men see it but it is the message a man can send when he defends and justifies it. It becomes him and his porn vs. a woman and how she can feel about it. He is right. He is a man. Porn is great. Her feelings are wrong. She is bad. She is being just "insecure" and should shut up.

 

Furthermore, painting that behavior as inherently misogynistic has the effect of painting all men who use it as misogynists.

 

Since I find most porn rather misogynistic, I do infact actually question how much men love and respect women if they can support an entire medium that makes money off of the debasement and degradation of the female gender. You are not so far off that I question if men don't really like women very much at all beyond their idealized wished that women be perfect made through surgery. The fact that alot of porn doesn't treat women any better then three holes and a pretty face and often refers to women in degrading names speaks for itself. It in turn, is hard to take men serious when they say porn is no big deal yet they aren't the ones being objectified and treated like less of a person.

 

 

Believe it or not, men want women to be on their side, too. There isn't a real conflict of interest here. The conflict is that these women don't want the men in their lives to look at pornography, primarliy because it makes them feel insecure, and men want women to accept them for who they are, warts and all, virtues and vices alike.

 

Men want women to accept them for who they are, yet men don't really seem to accept women for who they are. They don't accept the fact that porn can hurt them. They by into and love an entire fantasy world that is not exactly about accepting the female body or spirit in its true honesty. Men want to be accepted for who they are do they really want to accept women for who they are? It doesn't seem like it. I also take issue with the idea that men want to be accepted for who they are, warts and all. I preceive that to mean that even when men behave badly and dishonorably, they still want women to think they are wonderful honorable men when they haven't doen the action to back it up. We are suppose to respect men and feel like we can be vunerble with them while they love and cater to an entire medium that is about disprescting women and show cases unrealistic expectations about women? That is never going to work.

 

 

Red herring. Cosmo is not porn, porn is not cosmo. BUT, they both can have the effect of creating unreasonable expectations in a partner.

 

You are the one that compared Cosmo to porn. Cosmo doesn't refer to men in derogatory names or expect men to have fake body parts to meet unreal expectations. Cosmo doesn't even suggest to women to hold out for a partner that makes more money then her current one. Cosmo actually uses such articles as "How to please your man", "Dates your man will love" and perhaps the one shirtless hot guy a month. Porn on the other hand is about how many different orfices a woman can have filled by how many different men.

 

 

I've got a little niece and the idea her in a porno would make me sick to my stomach, no question about it. However, catching word that she'd had sex outside of wedlock would have the same effect. In an ideal world, porn wouldn't exist at all, virtue would rule the day. It is a vice, no question about it, and vices are harmful. BUT, to say that it is entirely misogynistic is just inaccurate.

 

I am hard pressed to believe that most men would be just as upset about learning that a niece had sex out of wedlock over seeing their niece in a porno. Porn doesn't respect women. Period. This is why no man would want to see someone they care about in one. Yet we aren't suppose to question how much men respect women when they advocate and use porn. I think most porn is misogynistic. The simple fact that probably 99% of men would never want their daughter or neice in one speaks volumes about what they really think about porn and how it treats women.

 

 

Is your man your fantasy in every case? You've never had thoughts of being with someone else? Ever? If so, you're a rare woman. Furthermore, do your fantasies include all of his imperfections? Do all your fantasies take place in your bedroom? In your living room?

 

When I am with a guy, my fantasies are about him. I think most women are like this actually. And yes, my fantasies actually do include his imperfections because that is who he is and that is who I love and care for. His imperfectoins make him who he is and make him all that more sexy. Sadly, another differencebetween men and women. Men want to erase all our human feminine imperfections and women love men for their.s

 

 

Fantasies are fantasies because they are fantastic. Unrealistic. Unobtainable. Distant.

 

And men make sure we never forget how much better their fantasies are then us.

 

The fact is, no one in a monogamous relationship, will ever have or should have exclusive right over the fantasy life of his/her partner. It's unrealistic to ask for or expect that kind of control. What goes on in his head is his business. It's sovereign territory. Likewise for you.

 

I agree. Although it would be nice if men used more self control. i don't think many men today do. And I don't even think men want to, because as you said, their fantasies trump anythign a real live breathing woman could be for him.

 

OF COURSE THE FANTASY IS ALWAYS BETTER! It HAS to be! If it isn't, what's the point of fantasizing?

 

Yeap, and that is the message women get. The fantasy is better. They aren't. No matter what they do they are under valued and under appreaciated because a man's fantasy is what is important.

 

 

Reality is rewarding. Would a blowjob from a 20 year old with perfect boobs be enjoyable? Sure. But I'd much rather have a fulfilling sexual relationship with an imperfect, "boring" girl with a brain and feelings.

 

If men rather being having deep relationships with imperfect gals, why aren't they making these types of movies? I think the medium speaks for itself and what men really want. It just sucks for women that's all. I don't expect men to care anymore. There was a point when I use to hope they would but that is a lark. Most men just don't care about treating women right. So most women can look fowrad to getting older and his porn remaing the same age and him telling her how much better it is then her.

 

 

If you honestly question why men bother with real relationships...

 

I honestly do. Why the heck do men bother since men want variety and always want something that a real woman can never be? I really don't get it. It's clear that most men don't really value relationships and respecting women.

[vonerik012]

As I just posted on a similar thread, here it is...

 

Women who can, often times use their looks, body, and sex to get ahead in life. They get certain jobs, date rich men, etc.

 

So, if we could magically change to a pornless society, and make sure all women wear burkas, perhaps it would be better for everyone sexually. But many of these women would much rather flaunt what they have to get ahead. Can't have it both ways.

[carhill]

what should i do?

 

Leave him and find a man who does like to have sex with you. I'll bet you'll have no trouble Besides, you're 22 and you've got your whole life ahead of you to agonize over all this stuff. Get out there and have fun. When you get to be my age, in another 27 years or so, then beat yourself up over diets and porn.

[LucreziaBorgia]

If men rather being having deep relationships with imperfect gals, why aren't they making these types of movies?

 

 

Because porn is about fantasy, not about reality.

 

Why do they make movies with happy endings in situations where there generally aren't any? Why do fashion magazines feature clothing that average women will never see in a store, much less wear? Why are there romance novels with ridiculous unrealistic plots and characters? Why are there video games with characters with superhuman powers or even inhuman altogether? Why are there kung fu movies with outrageously unrealistic fighting styles? Why are there horror novels, movies, etc?

 

Because it is fantasy. Sex has a fantasy component too. Fantasizing about something does not mean you want to trade what you have in for it.

 

The simple fact that probably 99% of men would never want their daughter or neice in one speaks volumes about what they really think about porn and how it treats women.

 

I don't think it has as much to do with the treatment of women so much as it does not wanting someone to be fantasizing about their relatives in a sexual way.

[Jersey Shortie]

Because porn is about fantasy, not about reality.

 

 

And has already been stated, fantasy to men is always better then reality. so logically speaking, it's better when a woman is a man's fantasy then when she is his reality since the fantasy gets a higher status.

 

Because it is fantasy. Sex has a fantasy component too. Fantasizing about something does not mean you want to trade what you have in for it.

 

It doesn't mean that you don't want to trade in what you have for it either. Many men I bet would in a heartbeat.

 

 

I don't think it has as much to do with the treatment of women so much as it does not wanting someone to be fantasizing about their relatives in a sexual way.

 

I think it's because men don't respect the women in porn while they defend them over real women. They regnonize the inherent disrespect for a woman in a porn and don't want someone they truly carefor in one. Respecting women is something men only shallowing extend to family members. Obviously all other women are less deserving of it.

[LucreziaBorgia]

My husband just read your post. We both see that the things you say aren't even close to reality to how men think when it comes to things like this.

 

Seriously. So many men (and women like myself who really understand men) have come on here to tell you how they actually think and feel, and you continue to discount it and tell them what you think all men think.

 

I have no idea or understanding why a person would confuse fantasy with reality, or think that because a person fantasizes, they want to replace their reality with fantasy. I guess some do, but not everyone who fantasizes does.

[IrishCarBomb]

fantasy to men is always better then reality.

 

Not true! I honestly prefer my Gibson Explorer to Guitar Hero. Maybe I'm just crazy!

[almost famous]

I seriously advise you to dump him now. There are tons of guys who will want to be intimate with you and won't want anything to do with porn. If you stay with him you are dealing with a man who lies and a man who won't fulfill your most basic need of sexual intimacy.

There are better men out there.

You have to remember that the men on here who are telling you that you are the problem thrive on the internet and use porn themselves. Most normal men aren't on the internet as much, so the ones who are on this sight and answering this post are more inclined to use porn a lot and think that it is normal for a man to view porn that much.

I have dated and been in serious relationships where porn wasn't a part of their lives, they didn't seek it out.

Your guy has a serious problem and he is whacked in the head.

Just get rid of him and get a normal, decent man who will treat you right. As it is now, he isn't treating you right.