Men should pay for dates meals.

[vonerik012]

I state the begrudge part from personal experience. It's happened twice to me, of which the first time, he considered me his meal ticket, which got him dumped STAT! The second time, this guy begrudged time and emotion. Frack that one too!

 

Ladies, seriously, watch out for these guys. The ones who begrudge are either viewing you as objects to get laid or this type of begrudging, will permeate other aspects of the relationship.

 

How many times did you pay for him before you felt like a meal ticket? How many times should a man pay for a woman before he becomes a "meal ticket"

 

The women who use the "shaming" tactics such as "gentleman pay" "losers don't pay" etc

 

Typically have no money

Might have a job but be completely debt ridden, so they have no money to spend.(Even high earners)

Have the princess mentality

Cannot hold any job

Serial date, so of course they do not want to pay.

Insecure with themselves, so as to not feel used, they want the man to always pay.

 

I have found the above women NEVER want to pay for anything in the course of a relationship. And they all use the same lines/shaming tactics.

 

If you date a truly secure, financially stable woman, you run into far less of the above. Money, paying, (after a few dates) just completely flows, and it is never an issue. Usually the man pays 70-30, 60-40, or even 50-50.

 

And yes SG, that would be annoying.. Never paying, except for 3 dollars at a time when a man would always pay. Was that out of naeivety, or done on purpose to emasculate him in front of others?

[Star Gazer]

And yes SG, that would be annoying.. Never paying, except for 3 dollars at a time when a man would always pay. Was that out of naeivety, or done on purpose to emasculate him in front of others?

 

It's emasculating to pay for the valet AFTER he just spent 15 minutes chastising me through dinner for not paying for anything yet? I was contributing as soon as I could. What I should have done was have him pay for the valet and then never return his calls. Any man who'd chastise me for not paying for anything yet during the date is just ... NOT a gentleman.

 

As I said (honestly, do you EVER read?), he had asked me out and taken me on very fancy dates. If he expected me to contribute my half, I would have bankrupted myself at the time. He was spending way beyond his means in a lame effort to impress me. It was his own fault he found himself in that situation.

[carhill]

Not gender-specific, but IME wealthy people get that way by being mindful of everything financial. Even "generosity" is carefully scrutinized. I know this from personal experience. For some personality types, it becomes a disease, interfering with healthy relationships. The work becomes protecting one's "pile" rather than enjoying the freedom that comes with financial independence.

 

Perhaps this has little to do with men paying on dates, but there is some psychology behind the actions of some of the "cheap" ones.

 

I particularly enjoy those people who glamorize the offering of what costs them little or means little to them in the effort to get something they value greatly in return. In both business and personal life, I'm always fascinated by this psychology.

[Lishy]

I never pay on the first few dates but would then offer to pay after that.

 

I am VERY self sufficiant and rely on nobody for nothing BUT I still would never pay on the first 2 dates!!

[vonerik012]

It's emasculating to pay for the valet AFTER he just spent 15 minutes chastising me through dinner for not paying for anything yet? I was contributing as soon as I could. What I should have done was have him pay for the valet and then never return his calls. Any man who'd chastise me for not paying for anything yet during the date is just ... NOT a gentleman.

 

As I said (honestly, do you EVER read?), he had asked me out and taken me on very fancy dates. If he expected me to contribute my half, I would have bankrupted myself at the time. He was spending way beyond his means in a lame effort to impress me. It was his own fault he found himself in that situation.

 

Yes I can read. And I have concluded none of your posts/threads EVER contain a believable or even likely situation. More or less like you are embellishing, adding, or leaving out crucial information to be right, or paint a certain picture when it applies.

 

So I sincerely doubt a man took you on 3 very expensive first dates ($350 dinners), then started yelling at you in the middle of the third date telling you to pay half.

 

I do believe somewhere down the line he suggested you chip in sometimes, and then you paid the valet dude 2 dollars out of spite, in a passive aggressive manner.

[Lishy]

If I went out on 3 dates with a guy and he chose expensive restaurants and insited on being the man and then started complaining that that I never paid he would be wearing my $175 dinner plus drinks ... I would then pay the velt to get my car so I could leave and never see the creep again!

 

It is all about knowing where you stand and acting appropriately.

 

I like to feel wined and dined and special and let me tell you, if I am paying the tab I aint feeling it so I am going!

[Star Gazer]

Yes I can read. And I have concluded none of your posts/threads EVER contain a believable or even likely situation. More or less like you are embellishing, adding, or leaving out crucial information to be right.

 

So I sincerely doubt a man took you on 3 very expensive first dates ($350 dinners), then started yelling at you in the middle of the third date telling you to pay half.

 

I do believe somewhere down the line he suggested you chip in sometimes, and then you paid the valet dude 2 dollars out of spite, in a passive aggressive manner.

 

I don't care if you believe me. It happened. That said, YOU are the one who embellishes MY posts. He didn't yell during dinner, he chastised me. He yelled outside when I went to pay for and tip the valet. The first date was around $400, the second $600, the third $350. At the time, I didn't like red wine and I'm allergic to shellfish. He insisted on ordering overpriced Cabs and fancy shellfish-type appetizers, which caused me to baulk at his suggestion that I pay for things I didn't even order or consume.

 

Nevertheless, the next time a man tells me that I ought to chip in will be the last time I go out with him. If he asks me out, he should expect to pay. Period. Whether I decide to chip in is my choice, and my choice alone. If I ask, I pay. If he decides to chip in, that's his choice. I wouldn't begrudge him if he didn't, and he shouldn't begrudge me if I don't - PARTICULARLY if he's taking me on dates he can't afford and knows I can't either.

[vonerik012]

I don't care if you believe me. It happened. That said, YOU are the one who embellishes MY posts. He didn't yell during dinner, he chastised me. He yelled outside when I went to pay for and tip the valet. The first date was around $400, the second $600, the third $350. At the time, I didn't like red wine and I'm allergic to shellfish. He insisted on ordering overpriced Cabs and fancy shellfish-type appetizers, which caused me to baulk at his suggestion that I pay for things I didn't even order or consume.

 

Nevertheless, the next time a man tells me that I ought to chip in will be the last time I go out with him. If he asks me out, he should expect to pay. Period. Whether I decide to chip in is my choice, and my choice alone. If I ask, I pay. If he decides to chip in, that's his choice. I wouldn't begrudge him if he didn't, and he shouldn't begrudge me if I don't - PARTICULARLY if he's taking me on dates he can't afford and knows I can't either.

 

 

Is that why you are serial dating so many men? All the free dinners and entertainment?

 

Why on earth would a man knowingly go out with a serial dater and pay her tab? He won't get sex and he won't get a relationship. Complete waste of time..

[Tomcat33]

Not gender-specific, but IME wealthy people get that way by being mindful of everything financial. Even "generosity" is carefully scrutinized. I know this from personal experience. For some personality types, it becomes a disease, interfering with healthy relationships. The work becomes protecting one's "pile" rather than enjoying the freedom that comes with financial independence.

 

Perhaps this has little to do with men paying on dates, but there is some psychology behind the actions of some of the "cheap" ones.

 

 

 

You know what you are absolutely right, I could not agree with this more. Because just as a cheapskate is someone I find unattractive I also find alarming when I see a guy that is too loose with his pocket as well. That can also be a sign of someone who does not manage money well and that can be just as unattractive.

 

I agree that people that get to be wealthy are people who are tight with their money. But it is all a balance. I have been out on dates with Adveritisng Executives and Stock Brokers and I know that these men were tight with their money but a guy like that would not THINK of allowing a woman to pay on a first date.

 

Here is a good story for you:

 

I went out with this Heart Surgeon once he was used to dating models and very young women NOT my type at all and I was shocked he took an interest in me since I am no model, but we were out and he knew my friend at the time and we were all talking and he and I got into some pretty good conversation so he asked for my # and called me during the week to go out. So we did. We went out for drinks and the entire time he spent the evening talking about himself and his ideas and philosophies and at one point he started to argue with me (mind you I could not get a word in edgewise so he was arguing with himself really) about the place that I worked at the time and certain things he had to say about it. I mean he was talking about it as if I ran the company. Ok fine that's that. The check came he plucked his credit card down, I thanked him for the taking care of the bill with a smile, he paid and that was that we left hugged good night and off I went to my home.

 

He called me during the week to ask me out again but I was not interested in more since I found him to be completely arrogant,

self-absorbed and jerky he was very good looking but his personality sucked. Being surrounded by all these nurses and women that look up to him at work I am sure he is used to being the center of awe all the time, and quite frankly I was not intersted in becoming one his fan posee.

 

Ok so fastforward to a few weeks later my friend the one that introduced us calls me and tells me "guess what? X called me and he asked me out on a date, what do you think I should do?" I said really he is such a jerk but go for it if you want I don't mind" She asks me you sure? I say of course, I am not into him at all so feel free to go. So they do they go out for dinner, at the end of the night he accepts her offer to pay for her half of the dinner well more than half because he says he only has X amonunt of money. Then they go out again and he invites her out to the movies but last minute pulls a "why don't we hang at yours and get a movie instead" so they do. A few weeks go by, and he doesn't call her she is flipping out, against all advice given to her she and ends up calling him he asks her out on a "let's meet here for drinks" kind of date, they go to a bar where she knows all the barstaff, he uses her for free drinks at the begining of the night and then takes off and leaves her hanging all night practically alone so she leaves" Of course after that she saw the light.

 

The moral of the story is some men are as generous and as willing to court a woman as the woman that sits infront of him.

[Star Gazer]

Is that why you are serial dating so many men? All the free dinners and entertainment?

 

Such a predictable question. The fact that you make such assumptions speaks volumes about what you think about women. It doesn't even warrant a response. That said, I already answered this question above...if you'd just READ.

 

Why on earth would a man knowingly go out with a serial dater and pay her tab? He won't get sex and he won't get a relationship. Complete waste of time..

 

ALL MEN should assume (even if not true) that in the first couple dates the woman he's dating is also dating others. If he wants to take her to dinner, he should pay. Whomever asks pays. Simple as that.

[vonerik012]

Yes tomcat, I agree...

 

How long do you feel the man should pay for you?

 

If you have these old fashioned attitudes about "courtship" do they disappear after 3 dates? And then you happily pay? Or do you never pay?

 

Sorry SG... There is a difference between dating a nice girl, who might be on the occasional other date.

 

And an internet monger who meets and goes out with 3-5 different men a week, just to feel validation from men.

 

And many women do date like that. I knew a group of female lawyers who had a competition while in law school to see how many free meals they could get from internet guys.. An extreme example but it happens.

[carhill]

The moral of the story is some men are as generous and as willing to court a woman as the woman that sits infront of him.

 

Ha! Yeah, that makes sense, but I gotta tell you there are men who'll cover my check simply because I'm a good listener. Especially those who know I'm not a competitor or out to "get them". You might be surprised (or perhaps not ) how paranoid men with money can become. Everyone "wants something". I'm sure it happens to wealthy women too.

 

Personally, I value freedom. Money is a tool to achieve that. I'll die broke

[Tomcat33]

Yes tomcat, I agree...

 

How long do you feel the man should pay for you?

 

If you have these old fashioned attitudes about "courtship" do they disappear after 3 dates? And then you happily pay? Or do you never pay?

 

 

 

I dunnow I don't keep a schedule on a peice of paper, you keep asking me that as if I plan out a forecast for my 2009 boyfriend budget plan.

 

It just happens naturally as the relationship progresses. I contribute as much as he will let me, it just so happens that the men I have ended up in rels with were the types to not even want me to pay so I would get them back in other ways that I knew I could treat them to an evening out.

Or if we would go for dinner and he pays I get the drinks afterwards but they would only accept one a round or so and then they would want to cater to me, I dunnow we don't think about it just happens naturally.

 

I'll tell you this much I have been very spoiled I must say.

[Tomcat33]

Ha! Yeah, that makes sense, but I gotta tell you there are men who'll cover my check simply because I'm a good listener. Especially those who know I'm not a competitor or out to "get them". You might be surprised (or perhaps not ) how paranoid men with money can become. Everyone "wants something". I'm sure it happens to wealthy women too.

 

 

 

I agree with you.

 

I am a good listener, great conversationalist that can talk about any topic you throw at me and I take a real interest in a person and feed off of their body language despite my romantic interest in them. I know I am good company on a date, which is why I know that if a man wants to show me he is having a good time out with me via treating me to the date I will not stand in his way.

[vonerik012]

Tomcat... What is the difference between a man who is a sucker, and a "gentleman".. Is he a "gentleman" as long as he pays for YOU?

 

I ask, because if men posted a story about paying for EVERYTHING for an entire relationship, while the woman has money she will not spend, just about everyone would be calling him a loser, a sucker, naive, weak, pathetic, and her a gold digger/user.

 

But if it happens to you, you are a refined traditional lady, and the man is a gentleman?

 

 

As Walk alluded to,

 

Men paying happened for a short period in time BECAUSE women did not work.

 

ALSO, keep in mind these women were not dating hundreds of men a year, lol.. Most likely going on a date was pretty important, and after a few she might meet the guy she is spending her life with. She did not go into dating with a list of 1000 criteria just to sit back, be paid for, and deny everyone.

 

This is far different from today. The act of a man paying is not showing "courtship" as many of these women are not even open to being courted. They are meeting 3-5 strangers a week, with little expectation of anything, other than getting out of the house, and then using the old fashioned laws to justify their USING behavior.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat... What is the difference between a man who is a sucker, and a "gentleman".. Is he a "gentleman" as long as he pays for YOU?

 

 

 

Ok read up boys...and pay close attention.

 

The difference between a gentleman and sucker is this:

 

Gentleman

 

A gentleman invests his time and yes even money (if he pays for dates) on a woman that is feeding into his romantic passes with clear signs of interest, a woman that is reciprocating in her openeness and eagerness to want to get to know him and spend time with him regardless of what you do together. One that when he asks out, shows him this with her overall demeanor that she is interested in him.

 

 

Sucker

 

A sucker is the type of guy that feels the need to up the ante when a woman CLEARLY sits on the fence about him making excuses as to why she can't see him, she is only half available this week but might see him next week, she runs hot and cold and being out with her always seems like you have to read a manual before you meet her just to guage where she stands. She makes you feel like she fits you in but ultimately is doing you some favour, and so the SUCKER in order to feel like he must try harder to win her over after all these CLEAR signs insists on taking her to an expensive night out to win her love/lust.

 

 

Me being a woman who can appreciate a man who wants to spend money on me without even knowing me and who respects a man for his hard work and effort when it comes to courting a woman I will NOT go out on a second date with a guy or lead him on in any way if I feel it is not happenning.

[jerbear]

Ok read up boys...and pay close attention

I'm not a boy so I'm not listening!

[Tomcat33]

I'm not a boy so I'm not listening!

 

 

I know you're not and I don't have any lesson that you can benefit from, as I know very well that you get it!

[vonerik012]

Tomcat,,

 

I am speaking of this type of relationship.

 

Lets say you are past the initial stages, and see each other quite often. 4,5,6 nights a week. Obviously in this type of relationship, interest is clear on both sides.

 

Do you still feel the man should pay for everything? Especially if the female has a job and plenty of her own money? Because that is how many women are. Their money is their money, and your money is their money. Then it is played off on "old traditional roles" and "being a gentleman" So would that man be a sucker? Or a gentleman if he pays for everything?

 

It is so much more enjoyable , if at that point, to be with a woman who does not mind spending her own money. Vacations can be much more frequent,etc. and you feel like you have more of a partner.

[jerbear]

I know you're not and I don't have any lesson that you can benefit from, as I know very well that you get it!

 

I do? ok. Well then carry on...

 

I'll jump back in later.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat,,

 

I am speaking of this type of relationship.

 

Lets say you are past the initial stages, and see each other quite often. 4,5,6 nights a week. Obviously in this type of relationship, interest is clear on both sides.

 

 

 

Listen Von if we are at the point of seeing each other 4,5,6 nights a week neither of us are spending money, we are busy in my bedroom, hallway, kitchen or his. I'll let you do the math on what we are doing.

 

 

In terms of how it works in the relationship OF COURSE I share my money I LOVE to travel I love weekend get-aways, and I love to go to the threatre and live music shows I like to lead a culturally rich life, this is what was instilled in me from a very young age and this is what I do when I am single and I want a partner who I can continue to do that with in a rel. And when two people that work hard and have good money management skills come together and fall in love the world is their oyster. You can enjoy SO MUCH MORE when you are on the same page financially. Of course I wouldn't expect my man to buy me all these things I want to be a partner in our times of leisure and in every way. That goes without say.

 

I am not a kept woman for goodness sakes or a princess!

[vonerik012]

Well that seems to be totally reasonable.

 

I dated one woman in the past in which we spent a lot of time together. I made more money than her. So I paid for everything. But, she loved to cook, and cooked for me everyday. I felt that was totally reasonable.

 

I think maybe today SOME women still expect men to pay for the majority of everything during the entire relationship, but do not do such old fashioned traditional things such as cooking. So that's when it seems to be unbalanced.

[Walk]

He not only did that but also took me out to dinner two nights out of the week I was there. I of course reciprocated.

 

But what differentiates this is that you reciprocated. I have only heard of TBF reciprocating payment for dinner dates. Otherwise it is expected men will pay until such time that the women deams they are in a relationship, only after in they are in a relationship would they reciprocated any future meals.

 

That would be like you accepting the ride from the airport, eating all this guys meals, and then ditching him because he refused to pay for the third meal.

[refurb]

The moral of the story is some men are as generous and as willing to court a woman as the woman that sits infront of him.

 

You don't see the irony in your story?

 

RF

[Lishy]

I would not expect a man to pay after the 3rd date, after that and knowing I like him it is equal!