Men should pay for dates meals.

[mental_traveller]

I think it depends on the circumstances. If you offer to take someone out to dinner, you're basically agreeing to pay for it. If you ask someone if they want to meet, and both agree on dinner, then you're not offering to pay, so the normal thing would be to split the bill. If you're dating someone flat broke and you earn a nice income, it would be considerate to pay for the meal. If you're dating a lawyer or doctor who makes more than you do, I think she can manage to pay half

[Walk]

Walk would you mind if I ask something along the lines of what you posted here in terms of men's experiences of paying for women in dates? I am curious about something.

I didn't understand the question. Are you asking what my personal experiences are regarding going on dates and having men pay?

[jerbear]

I suggest this.

 

Guys, if you two get into a dead lock or questioning who should pay, just take the lead and pay for the darn thing. Problem solved, deal with "does she want a second date" tomorrow.

[Walk]

Woman fought hard and long to be seen as equals to men. We demanded equal pay, we demanded the right to vote, we demanded to be seen as humans and NOT the property of a man. We've fought for centuries to change sterotypes and pre-defined roles of what a woman "should" be. Women were imprisoned, tortured, suffered great atrocities to earn equality for their daughters.

 

And now, we want all the benefits of equality, except when the old sterotypes benefit Us the most. We want the equal pay, the ability to hold any position in a company, the ability to run as Vice President or Presidential candidate... We expect to have a woman in the white house while we're still demanding that men follow old traditions in courtship? How can we remove the sterotype of the role of women, while grasping tightly to the roles that benefit ONLY us. This tradition of the man paying only really came into play in the 1920s. It was post world war when couples started going "out", and that meant men were required to pay (women earned far less then men could). Before this point, 'dates' were staged within the woman's home. Men were NOT expected to purchase their meals, their drinks, their movie tickets.

 

From the 20s to the 60s men paid because they HAD to. Women did not have the right to earn what men made. We were seen as less then men, we were inferior models who weren't as smart or as capable as their male counterparts. We could be school teachers, nurses, or other "pink collar" jobs. Not CEOs, Not investment bankers, Not lawyers.

 

From the 60s to the early 90s, women started to break through those glass ceilings. Laws were enacted to protect our rights. We could take control of our own reproductive rights by this point (birth control), and we were less dependant on males for their money.

 

So from the 20s to the 60s (40 years) these "old traditions" were in place. From the 60s to the late 90s (40 years) women gained equality and broke through the sterotypes. Now posters are claiming that these "old traditions" have always been there. They weren't. These were relatively new ideas for a period of time during great upheavel in the nation.

 

The arguments given on here reinforce that backward trend. i.e. Tomcat33: "I can tell what kind of a man he is going to be depending on how generous and chivalrous he is during the courting stages." Meaning: the man pays.

 

Where is our equality now? We want the same rights as men and then we demand to be treated special while dating. We demand to be treated as more then mere objects, but then we demand that men "pay" for us in order to spend time with us. We demand to have equality but only when it suits our purposes. If you want to be equal, then be equal in ALL aspects. Not simply the ones that benefit you the most.

[vonerik012]

Maybe we should bring back the much longer standing tradition of dowries.

 

Women often times could not even get married if her family did not have a significant sum of money to give to the husband.

[carhill]

Sorry, but I find men who participated on this thread to be cheap as well. Real guys don't need to brainstorm about paying for a date or not.

Hey, men pay for my meals all the time and I'm a man Guess I must have something they want

 

Seriously, just wanted to point out that not all the men participating here are cheap.

 

 

Women often times could not even get married if her family did not have a significant sum of money to give to the husband.

 

Ha, a running joke between my best friend and his FIL (now deceased) was that he "wanted to give the pig back" that was traded for the pleasure of marrying daughter. Yes, the daughter who flashed me in their RV..

[Walk]

Hey, men pay for my meals all the time and I'm a man Guess I must have something they want

I'm assuming that you mean male friends who you know. Either through work, or as friends, or are family members. When an unknown man you haven't talked to before asks you to join him for dinner or drinks and he stated he would pay, what's the first thought that goes through your head?

 

Seriously, just wanted to point out that not all the men participating here are cheap.

I find it really sad that this would even need to be pointed out.

[almost famous]

You're married....so why do their dating practices matter to you. aLso, looking at your old posts you had a really tough relationship with the guy you're with....hmmm....

It's what works for them. It's also what works for myself. Whoever asks is who pays. I don't ask men out.

I don't like the word "expect" them to pay. It's just how a guy who is truly interested in you and is gentlemanly and has been raised correctly does it.

If paying for dinners out, movies, dates until a steady relationship is established is really putting him out that much, then he needs to get his life together enough to date a woman properly, or adjust the choice of restaurants.

I totally agree that once a relationship is established, the paying becomes more equal, maybe not down to the penny, but switching off each time. So the guy is only really "put out" during the courting stage. And like I said, if he is really feeling "put out" monetarily, then he doesn't really want to date me anyway, or is a loser.

 

 

For Jilly Bean and Shygirl, how many times do you actually ask a man out? Like twice, three times a year, maybe? You can't pretend to claim it's a fair deal you've got going on there. You're claiming it goes both ways when reality is you rarely pay for dates. I know neither of you go on many dates where you've asked men out because both of you said men should chase you.

 

What I'm hearing is both of you want free meals. You can sit there and look cute, but you deserve to be paid for your time.

 

How does a guy paying you to spend a couple hours with him prove he's a good guy?

[Adunaphel]

I expect men who ask me out to want to be paying for dinner; but I'd also expect them to drop me like a hot potato if they started to wonder whether it is the free meals, and not them, I am interested in.

[Lights]

I don't like the word "expect" them to pay. It's just how a guy who is truly interested in you and is gentlemanly and has been raised correctly does it.

Why is it "correct" to raise a boy to fall for such a hypocritical scheme?

[vonerik012]

If you notice, not one of these "ladies" has any logical reason, other than to use shaming tactics. Or name calling. Obviously this is resorted to when there is no logical argument to make.

 

"If he was raised correctly" "If he is a gentleman" ""If he is not cheap"

 

"If he is not a loser"

 

You women must really be dying for those free meals to get so mad about it.

[Adunaphel]

It is not necessarily a gender, men vs. women thing.

I like to spend time and/or money on my SO, and I could not get along well with anyone who did not feel like spending some time and/or money on me.

This is why a guy who asks me out and either does not offer to pay, or pays grudgingly "because he has to", is a turnoff for me.

[Trialbyfire]

Walk, while I understand what you mean about equality, isn't it individual reliant? Some women want the traditional setup, including the traditional marriage. Others want something different. If men want to pay and the woman wants the same, it's between the two of them.

 

No one is holding a gun to the head of these guys. If they don't want to pay, that's their right of refusal. If they only look at it as if it's the only way to get laid, that's their problem, because they're not viewing women as equals either, just objects. When objectifying women, they're only going to get the lesser women.

[vonerik012]

It is just interesting to read some of these responses..

 

It is odd, when some females might be married to their careers, do not have one traditional bone in their body, and ALWAYS expect men to pay.

 

And, all men have dated women like this.. If the woman starts out by expecting men to pay, usually this does not easily fade into sharing costs down the road..More or less, they ALWAYS expect you to pay. Paying for the first 3,4, 5 dates is not a big deal at all. But if she is just "expecting" this entire time, what is she showing the man the future would be like?

 

It is not like after 3 dates, then a light bulb goes off in this "traditional thinking" womans mind, that makes her think "Oh, now i will pay half" . Sometimes it MIGHT work like that, but more often than not, it does not. Especially if you start having sex with the above type woman.

 

The same exact excuses will be used, same thing about being a gentleman, or not being loser, etc..

 

After a while of dating, you can tell which women are simply losers who cannot pay, or are users, or are just cool people. Maybe the beginning of a budding relationship should be focused on love, and getting to know each other, rather than money.

[Tomcat33]

Woman fought hard and long to be seen as equals to men. We demanded equal pay, we demanded the right to vote, we demanded to be seen as humans and NOT the property of a man. We've fought for centuries to change sterotypes and pre-defined roles of what a woman "should" be. Women were imprisoned, tortured, suffered great atrocities to earn equality for their daughters.

 

The arguments given on here reinforce that backward trend. i.e. Tomcat33: "I can tell what kind of a man he is going to be depending on how generous and chivalrous he is during the courting stages." Meaning: the man pays.

 

Where is our equality now? We want the same rights as men and then we demand to be treated special while dating. We demand to be treated as more then mere objects, but then we demand that men "pay" for us in order to spend time with us. We demand to have equality but only when it suits our purposes. If you want to be equal, then be equal in ALL aspects. Not simply the ones that benefit you the most.

 

 

Women fought hard to be equally paid in the workforce, women didn't fight hard to be equal to men. Me personally I have NO DESIRE TO BE EQUAL TO A MAN. I am NOT equal to a man in that men are stronger, men are detached and less emotional, men have sex on their mind 24/7, men are hairy and walk and sit like men, and they do not have the door opened for them, men are MEN. I have 0 desire to be like a man.

 

I like to wear skirts, I like to cook, I like to wear frilly things under my clothers, and I wear heels and make-up an stockings, and I clean, I like to buy flowers for my home, I like to decorate, I don't like bugs, I don't like smelly places, I won't sit on a public toilet, I get scared of walking down the streets alone at night in a dangerous neighbourhood, I cry for no reason certain times a month, I like to bake and throw dinner parties, I am still 100% woman. Got it?

 

Cool.

 

But if I am going to be doing that marketing job just like Peter, who happens to be the same age as me and has the same qualifications as me, I want to get paid the exact same pay as him because not only does Peter also live alone and has no family to support like I do, we both live in the same city with the same expenses with the same cost of living. And even if he DID have a family to support chances are his W works too, so why should I get shafted and get paid less when he has a double income, he gets all sorts of tax cuts for being married and having kids and I am here to FEND FOR MY OWN simply because I am not married. That's is RETARDED! And THAT'S WHAT WE WOMEN FOUGHT FOR That's ALL.

The fact some butches took it to the other extreme is not my problem or not my idea of what this equality means. I do NOT adhere to that.

 

That's IT. That's the extent of what my equality is. I don't go out and screw men like I have a dildo between my legs I don't talk like a butch, I don't look like a butch it's not beneath me to serve a man and his buds beers as they watch the football game on a sunday night. I make dinner practically every night when I am in a rel. even though we both work, I iron his shirt if I know he has an important client meeting the next morning even though I still have to get ready and be in on time for my own job, I cater to him as a woman should in every respect emotionally and sexually it comes naturally to me so DON'T TELL ME I am going backwards, when I know exactly where I am going and which way "I" face.

 

If you want to be a butch that walks around opening doors for men because you want to be equal to a man, if you want to snap at him like I hear some women do who have a chair pulled for them when they are in a restaurant (I've been out and sat next to a couple on a date and heard women tell men "look it's ok I can do it I am not crippled...." BLEEECHHHHHHHHHH) the more power to you BRUCE!!

I have NO desire to do those kinds of things and quite frankly I don't care what other women that have some strong desire to be like men think I am doing to the "sisterhood" or is it the "brotherhood."

 

Sheesh!

 

If a guy want's a lady, he's got it with me but he is also going to have to be a gentleman. If he wants some feck buddy he'd better move on I am not the "guy" for the job.

 

I enjoy being a woman and I am not about to be stripped of that by what some of the female society and some of the lazy males that are neither really male or FEMALE dicatates we SHOULD be.

 

For all those poor souls floating about in the limbo of androgeny who are lost and and confused, you always have each other.

 

I am a real woman who enjoys the company of a real man.

 

End of story for ME, really.

[norajane]

Woman fought hard and long to be seen as equals to men. We demanded equal pay, we demanded the right to vote, we demanded to be seen as humans and NOT the property of a man. We've fought for centuries to change sterotypes and pre-defined roles of what a woman "should" be. Women were imprisoned, tortured, suffered great atrocities to earn equality for their daughters.

 

And now, we want all the benefits of equality, except when the old sterotypes benefit Us the most.

 

Where is our equality now? We want the same rights as men and then we demand to be treated special while dating.

 

Paying for a date is a courtesy. If a guy does not want to extend that courtesy when he's asked me out on a date, then he probably doesn't like me enough to go out with me.

 

And yes, I would like to be treated as special to him if he's asked me out on a date...where's the courtship if I'm being treated just like he treats everyone else? I don't expect him to pay for a date; I want him to WANT to pay for the date because he wants to do something nice for me because he likes me...presumably, that's why he asked me out, right?

 

Having said that, I do not in any way see his paying for me as a BENEFIT to me. As Tomcat said earlier in the thread, I do not go out on dates because I need someone to buy me dinner, and I do not go out on dates because I am hungry and thirsty and need someone else to cover those costs of feeding me. I go out on dates because I like the guy and want to get to know him better.

 

And finally, I really have never run into a guy who doesn't want to pay or who would accept my paying. But I'm long past my college days, so perhaps it's a function of the men I date are just as established in their careers as I am in mine, so money is really an afterthought.

[Tomcat33]

You're married....so why do their dating practices matter to you. aLso, looking at your old posts you had a really tough relationship with the guy you're with....hmmm....

 

 

I thought SO!! I was going to ask the same thing. This is fresh coming form someone who is not even in the dating world!!

[carhill]

When an unknown man you haven't talked to before asks you to join him for dinner or drinks and he stated he would pay, what's the first thought that goes through your head?

 

Well, firstly, that he's a generous guy.

 

Example: I did a mileage run on a mistake fare to New Zealand last year. Someone whom I didn't know who had followed my postings working the run on Flyertalk contacted me and offered to pick me up at the airport in Wellington. He not only did that but also took me out to dinner two nights out of the week I was there. I of course reciprocated. Maori food is quite interesting He lived fairly close to where my hotel as and worked as a gastroenterologist at the nearby hospital. Conclusion: A generous, super intelligent and down to earth guy who liked doing things for people who travel a half world to visit his country and whom would be welcome in my home anytime. No expectation of sex

[Trialbyfire]

I'm throwing down the gauntlet, what the hell! I would see a man as being cheap, if he doesn't want to pay. Whether I let him pay, is an entirely different story.

 

Anyone who begrudges money, is someone who begrudges more than money.

[Tomcat33]

I'm throwing down the gauntlet, what the hell! I would see a man as being cheap, if he doesn't want to pay. Whether I let him pay, is an entirely different story.

 

Anyone who begrudges money, is someone who begrudges more than money.

 

 

Exactly!!! That's the bottom line really.

 

I said it early on. And futhermore for me one of the biggest signs I look out for now in this stage if my life is the paternal instincts of a man, if he is cheap on a date he will be cheap to our children and I don't want to raise children in a cellophaned livingroom sectioned off for the imaginary guests that will never arrive because mom and dad have lost all their friends due to the frugal tendencies of dad.

 

My folks when I was prob around 15 had some friends and the dad was exactly like that. God you should see these people's home it was dark and gloomy and out dated, the wife was totally normal the man was obsessed in saving money. Well my folks are very sociable people they always hosted big dinner parties we always all went out to different cultural events etc. and so after a while the friendship broke, they just could not keep up with my parents' and their friends lifestyle, which was nothing extravagant just normal, but this couple was just not able to do the same things. My mum stayed friends with the woman and the guy eventually went off the deepend and died. They lost touch but the point is that guy was crazy and you think it just starts with one date but it can be a lifetime of battling over money.

 

I don't want that for myself. Money is great and all but it is here to offer you the much needed escapes we need from our day to day lives, if I can't enjoy that with the person I love then I don't want to love a person who doesn't.

[Star Gazer]

Woman fought hard and long to be seen as equals to men. We demanded equal pay, we demanded the right to vote, we demanded to be seen as humans and NOT the property of a man. We've fought for centuries to change sterotypes and pre-defined roles of what a woman "should" be. Women were imprisoned, tortured, suffered great atrocities to earn equality for their daughters.

 

And now, we want all the benefits of equality, except when the old sterotypes benefit Us the most. We want the equal pay, the ability to hold any position in a company, the ability to run as Vice President or Presidential candidate... We expect to have a woman in the white house while we're still demanding that men follow old traditions in courtship? How can we remove the sterotype of the role of women, while grasping tightly to the roles that benefit ONLY us. This tradition of the man paying only really came into play in the 1920s. It was post world war when couples started going "out", and that meant men were required to pay (women earned far less then men could). Before this point, 'dates' were staged within the woman's home. Men were NOT expected to purchase their meals, their drinks, their movie tickets.

 

From the 20s to the 60s men paid because they HAD to. Women did not have the right to earn what men made. We were seen as less then men, we were inferior models who weren't as smart or as capable as their male counterparts. We could be school teachers, nurses, or other "pink collar" jobs. Not CEOs, Not investment bankers, Not lawyers.

 

From the 60s to the early 90s, women started to break through those glass ceilings. Laws were enacted to protect our rights. We could take control of our own reproductive rights by this point (birth control), and we were less dependant on males for their money.

 

So from the 20s to the 60s (40 years) these "old traditions" were in place. From the 60s to the late 90s (40 years) women gained equality and broke through the sterotypes. Now posters are claiming that these "old traditions" have always been there. They weren't. These were relatively new ideas for a period of time during great upheavel in the nation.

 

The arguments given on here reinforce that backward trend. i.e. Tomcat33: "I can tell what kind of a man he is going to be depending on how generous and chivalrous he is during the courting stages." Meaning: the man pays.

 

Where is our equality now? We want the same rights as men and then we demand to be treated special while dating. We demand to be treated as more then mere objects, but then we demand that men "pay" for us in order to spend time with us. We demand to have equality but only when it suits our purposes. If you want to be equal, then be equal in ALL aspects. Not simply the ones that benefit you the most.

 

I couldn't agree with you more, Walk. This is why I started a thread on having no problem being the one to initiate contact and/or ask a man out on a date. Socially, we're now in a place where a woman could feasibly end up President of the United States, and yet we still demand to be treated and wooed? Exactly as you said, we want equality when it suits us, and we want traditional roles when it suits us. We really can't have it both ways and expect to be taken seriously.

 

Ironically, the same people in that thread saying a man should pursue a woman are the same people claiming that men shouldn't be the ones paying. So if we follow their logic, a man should pursue and yet get the woman to pay for it.

[Trialbyfire]

I state the begrudge part from personal experience. It's happened twice to me, of which the first time, he considered me his meal ticket, which got him dumped STAT! The second time, this guy begrudged time and emotion. Frack that one too!

 

Ladies, seriously, watch out for these guys. The ones who begrudge are either viewing you as objects to get laid or this type of begrudging, will permeate other aspects of the relationship.

[Star Gazer]

Paying for a date is a courtesy. If a guy does not want to extend that courtesy when he's asked me out on a date, then he probably doesn't like me enough to go out with me.

 

And yes, I would like to be treated as special to him if he's asked me out on a date...where's the courtship if I'm being treated just like he treats everyone else? I don't expect him to pay for a date; I want him to WANT to pay for the date because he wants to do something nice for me because he likes me...presumably, that's why he asked me out, right?

 

Having said that, I do not in any way see his paying for me as a BENEFIT to me. As Tomcat said earlier in the thread, I do not go out on dates because I need someone to buy me dinner, and I do not go out on dates because I am hungry and thirsty and need someone else to cover those costs of feeding me. I go out on dates because I like the guy and want to get to know him better.

 

And finally, I really have never run into a guy who doesn't want to pay or who would accept my paying. But I'm long past my college days, so perhaps it's a function of the men I date are just as established in their careers as I am in mine, so money is really an afterthought.

 

I also agree with all of this. Dating has nothing to do with getting free dinners - most of us can pay for ourselves. Rather, we go out with men because we're interested in them and want to get to know them better. We WANT them to WANT to please us.

 

Reminds me in a way of the fight over lemons and doing dishes from "The Break Up." She didn't want him to do the dishes. She wanted him to want to help her do the dishes, even if he didn't actually do them.

[Star Gazer]

Ladies, seriously, watch out for these guys. The ones who begrudge are either viewing you as objects to get laid or this type of begrudging, will permeate other aspects of the relationship.

 

I had an experience with a guy once who flipped out at me on our third (maybe fourth?) date because I hadn't yet paid for anything. He always asked me out, and took me on fancy dates that I couldn't have even chipped in for at the time (they were that expensive). He seemed to begrudge the fact that he was paying for everything up to that point. I was put-off, but thought I should contribute where I could. So after our $350 dollar dinner when I tried to pay the valet and tip him, he screamed at me, "What are you trying to do?!?! Emasculate me?!?!"

 

I couldn't win with the guy. And that was just the beginning...

[Green]

I had an experience with a guy once who flipped out at me on our third (maybe fourth?) date because I hadn't yet paid for anything. He always asked me out, and took me on fancy dates that I couldn't have even chipped in for at the time (they were that expensive). He seemed to begrudge the fact that he was paying for everything up to that point. I was put-off, but thought I should contribute where I could. So after our $350 dollar dinner when I tried to pay the valet and tip him, he screamed at me, "What are you trying to do?!?! Emasculate me?!?!"

 

I couldn't win with the guy. And that was just the beginning...

 

hahahha you really have some stories