silverstar189 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 i've always thought that whoever asks the other out pays.....that tends to be the man from experience, because the male takes the lead at this stage. then later on you fall into splitting everything. it's all linked to who has the dominant role at that point, which should really be the guy.
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 No, I date old women above 30 also. I even pay for them..
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 It does not prove the man is generous or capable. He might just be conforming against his will, and think you are just cheap. Yes it does. Without exception every single man I ended up in and LTR with was this kind of generous in the courting stage and it continued and progressed as we became closer. Look I have nothing to prove to you, I am a woman I have experience with a LOT of men, a LOT. Both in just dating nothing physical and in close intimate relationships, take my word of it. This works. I can tell what kind of a man he is going to be depending on how generous and chivalrous he is during the courting stages. You have your style and that's fine, I would never date a guy like you and more than likely I would see your true colours in something as simple as how you view the paying of the bill at the end of a date but MORE importantly if you say half the shiiit you do around here when you are on a date I doubt you are getting much action anywhere. But I bet you are smarter than that, you would not talk like this on dates but your actions WOULD speak louder. Women are always studying men don't underestimate our power of perception. What seems innocuous to you is very telling for us.
cheezy100 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 I normally would want the guy to pay on dates, but then in my mind, I would think he's expecting something from me later on. So I sometimes offer to pay. If I ask him out to dinner, then I would pay. And he does let me. Majority it's him who pays though since he's working and I'm not (student). He pays for the more expensive events, and i pay for like Wendy's and minor things....hehehe... Just not too long ago, he asked me out. Planned a nice event for the two of us. He drove, but he's not that great of a driver in a BIG CITY. Neither am I, but better than him. So I ended up driving his car to park in a public garage that was narrow like crazy. I ended up backing up his car into a parking spot. The next thing we heard was a "CRUNCH" sound. I scratched his car, but a minor one. I kept apologizing to him, but he said "it's ok. You'll just have to give me something in return." (evil laugh) LOL...but OMG...I was so sorry, so I ended up paying for the parking fee ($30), the event ($20), and dinner ($25). He paid for the drinks that night ($20). So I guess my paying can even out the scratch. That was the first time I ever scratched a car, I don't even scratch my own car. So I guess it really depends on the situation of who should pay.
Lizzie60 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 It depends.. most of the time I will offer to pay my share.. but if the guy refuses and absolutely wants to pay.. then I will not argue with him but I will tell him that I pay the next date (I say that only if I'm interested in having a 2nd date)... it usually works well that way. If I don't go for the 2nd date.. he just missed on the opportunity to save his money.. too bad.. I offered him to pay MY share.
Lizzie60 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Oh and I should add that to expect men to pay for the dates is like going backwards.. we are telling him that he is above us...
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 IThe only women I can recall, while single, paying for my meal/drinks, etc. have been female friends (non-romantic). We switch off picking up the check, similar to what I do with my male friends. That last bit was very interesting and I totally agree. With guy friends I always pay my way I don't want to give them any wrong ideas or make them think anything at all romantic is going on. It's just one of those unspoken rules, romance is courted friendship goes dutch.
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 If you date truly successful woman, she is looking for someone whose company she enjoys. Someone whom makes her laugh, someone attractive, intelligent, etc. Money is an after thought. Money is an after thought for me as well. I do not care. Some women , almost always broke, unemployed, struggling, or other wise low on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, perceive buying a cheap dinner as some all important signal. The best relationships flow, and money is not an issue. I understand if you look at this from some really low level, if the man does not pay for you, there is someone else he would pay for. And I agree. But for it to be such a major issue, and just expected because you have a vagina, is a turn off for many men if they admit it or not. Just because they do tell you to put your wallet back doesn't really mean much. It just means they are playing the game to get laid.
jerbear Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 It looks like the going consensus is that the women who pay on the first date means that there won't be a 2nd date.
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Oh and I should add that to expect men to pay for the dates is like going backwards.. we are telling him that he is above us... I don't mind if the man is above me while we date, I have plenty of time to get on top of him later in the relationship. And he will like it too. :laugh::laugh:
jerbear Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 I don't mind if the man is above me while we date, I have plenty of time to get on top of him later in the relationship. And he will like it too. :laugh::laugh: Damn that is hot! Woman on top!
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Tomcat, will you cook and clean too? Or is the man paying the only old fashioned custom that should stick around? We already established that women are also easy just out for sex these days as well. So why should a man pay at all, lol.
fral945 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Today, women expect a man to pay for dinner when out on a date. I've read a few opinions on here that a man who doesn't pay isn't worth dating anymore. So how do you feel about it? Do you agree with it? It's just one of those things you don't agree with but accept. I don't really consider it a big deal because I can afford it, so I always pay (or at least offer). I've never had a woman that offered to pay or split for the 1st date, but I'm not a serial dater either. I like TBF's view, that if the woman doesn't want a 2nd date she'll pay (hell, I would even take an offer to split). I have never gotten that offer, though, usually just no return phone calls after the date. I don't take it personally, though, because I expect very little on 1st dates. Is this outlook (men paying) a positive transition in our lives and relationships, or a negative? And why? It's not a transition, because it's consistent with what has always been done. A transition would be women paying or splitting the check. But I can't blame women, why not? I know even if I don't pay most guys I'm competing with will. So until most guys quit offering, things won't change. And why do you think this mentality is thriving at this time? As mentioned above, women like it and men won't stop doing it because women like it. We are all after the mighty poon tang.
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 If you date truly successful woman, she is looking for someone whose company she enjoys. Someone whom makes her laugh, someone attractive, intelligent, etc. Money is an after thought. Money is an after thought for me as well. I do not care. Some women , almost always broke, unemployed, struggling to make ends meet, or other wise low on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, perceive buying a cheap dinner as some all important signal. The best relationships flow, and money is not an issue. I understand if you look at this from some really low level, if the man does not pay for you, there is someone else he would pay for. And I agree. But for it to be such a major issue, and just expected because you have a vagina, is a turn off for many men if they admit it or not. Just because they do tell you to put your wallet back doesn't really mean much. It just means they are playing the game to get laid. Actually if you notice around here and everywhere it is usually the men without a job, the men who are struggling and the ones who are living paycheck to paychek that are the ones that make a big deal about paying. No other type of man complains about this. The guy who has it together financially gets it, he is also more selective about the women he dates because he has far more to protect and he won't waste his time with gold digging broke women unless of course he has somthing to gain from it himself. So when this type of man invites a woman out he is giving for all the right reasons not because he feels he HAS to like in the arm candy VS the fat older dude with a few $$, type of guy. For the rest of the normal guys that GET IT, it just goes with the laws of what works and what doesn't in the dating world. Even a very young guy that is fresh out of school and is starting out knows what works and what doesn't.
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 So that is your logical reason? It is just the laws that work? lol Yes, I am sure it works for your pocket book. Well I feel many of the old laws still work, but many women do not. The only reason men used to pay is because women did not work. Women were also far more submissive, had better morals, and more feminine. They were ladies. Why should any man pay to take out some working modern feminist is beyond me.
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 So that is your logical reason? It is just the laws that work? lol Yes, I am sure it works for your pocket book. Well I feel many of the old laws still work, but many women do not. The only reason men used to pay is because women did not work. Women were also far more submissive, had better morals, and more feminine. They were ladies. Why should any man pay to take out some working modern feminist is beyond me Well that's TRULY unfortunate for you Von. May I suggest you become a woman?
Ruby Slippers Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Even though most women can pay for their own meal these days, I don't think social and cultural programming fades as quickly as the balance of salaries between men and women has evolved. Why do men open doors for women? Most of us are plenty capable of doing that for ourselves. Why does the man pick the woman for a date up in his car? Most of us can drive ourselves. Why do we expect him to do the calling and pursuing? We know how to operate a phone. Social and cultural programming, rooted in culture and biology. When I was younger, I always offered to go dutch, no matter how long we'd known each other. By now I have figured out that most men feel you are stealing their thunder when you don't let them take care of the check, especially in the early stages. Also, I have learned that the guys who are stingiest with their money in the early stages are usually the stingiest and most emotionally shut off in the long run.
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 . Also, I have learned that the guys who are stingiest with their money in the early stages are usually the stingiest and most emotionally shut off in the long run. BINGO!!! This is what I see too.
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Well, thats exactly how men view women who "EXPECT" men to pay for everything. When does the man paying for everything end?? And according to Tomcat, women have sex exactly like men these days..So according to her, roles have changed.
Rooster_DAR Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Personally I always pay on the first date, it's just something that's been around for many generations. Then again, I make decent money and I usually attempt to pay for everything when I go out with friends and family. I don't date women who expect me to do this, and show it however. I like women who are not on the material side, or at least don't demonstrate their shallow demeanor by making impolite gestures. I absolutely think a woman returning opening the car door for me is a big plus. Cheers!
Tomcat33 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Well, thats exactly how men view women who "EXPECT" men to pay for everything. Simple, don't date women like us then. Not like you had a chance aaanyway...but you know just avoid our "type" like the plague. So you don't find financially successful women or powerful women attractive and you don't find women that like to have a date paid for them attractive either, and you think women over 27 are way past their prime, then I guess it doesn't leave a lot of selection for you out there does it? Now I am understanding why you hate women so much. Nooooooowww I get it! Sersiously won't you consider becoming a woman? I think you'd be a lot happier.
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Rooster, exactly... TC, you sound insecure... As if the man is paying so you feel valuable..Or, you are just cheap. is that all it takes to make you feel valuable? 30 dollars for your half of the meal? lol.. You are doing one thing wrong... If you were intelligent, you would get a lot more in the long run by being openly generous. Sure, you might get a few free meals. Will you get a marriage proposal? Will he splurge on a vacation for you? Or will it be bogged down into some really low level keeping track of a few dollars on a date to help you with your feelings of insecurity. Think big...
Dirk Diggler Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 I'm not suggesting that we turn men into little princesses. However, I'm appalled at how self-serving, egotistical, and spoiled some women act when it comes to dating and relationships. All I hear is, "I want, I want". As though the mere act of passively attending a meal is justification for repayment of the time used. I agree with the growing amount of women whom do come off as selfish by nature with the "I want, I want" attitude. But that's getting off topic. Though there are quite a many women whom exhibit the behavior you suggest, such as working a crowd in a bar for free drinks or speed/multi dating for free weekly meals. I have no objection to paying for meals to make my point clear, but there are many women whom will use men like a gas station just to fill up on premium.
vonerik012 Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Let me give an example of how I am looking at this.. Lets say you are on a second or third date with a man you like. He paid for the previous dates. This is a man you might see a future with. You also already know he can afford to pay your half. If you made a genuine offer to pay (not the fake slowly pull your wallet out and quickly put it back in your purse), or even insisted paying at the next venue, he would go home, and see you in a different light. That few dollars could possibly lead him to seeing you as generous, decent, normal, and someone who is not just out for a free dinner. He may then be VERY generous with you. Keep in mind men over time also become skeptical of women like you, as in the past they have been used for money, or it seems so. They also ran across many serial daters. Or broke loser women with no money. So think big, and you will make a better impression, and end up with far more in return. Paying that 20 dollars might lead to him opening his mind to you, and spending much much more. You get what you give. It will definitely not hurt if you eventually pay .
Rooster_DAR Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Let me give an example of how I am looking at this.. Lets say you are on a second or third date with a man you like. He paid for the previous dates. This is a man you might see a future with. You also already know he can afford to pay your half. If you made a genuine offer to pay (not the fake slowly pull your wallet out and quickly put it back in your purse), or even insisted paying at the next venue, he would go home, and see you in a different light. That few dollars could possibly lead him to seeing you as generous, decent, normal, and someone who is not just out for a free dinner. He may then be VERY generous with you. Keep in mind men over time also become skeptical of women like you, as in the past they have been used for money, or it seems so. They also ran across many serial daters. Or broke loser women with no money. So think big, and you will make a better impression, and end up with far more in return. Paying that 20 dollars might lead to him opening his mind to you, and spending much much more. You get what you give. It will definitely not hurt if you eventually pay . Very well said, I agree.
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