carhill Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 another off topic post... I have dated many hair stylists in my time and the one thing I've learned is that you never have them do your hair if they are mad at you or you have broken up Ha, ha, my wife can't screw up a buzz cut too bad. If she did/does, I just take a razor and finish up myself
carhill Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Some places they merely have you convinced you HAVE to spend a ton of money to look good. Not so. Very true. There are salons in our area which charge 100+ for a cut/style and 200+ for a weave. It's about cache'.....a tony address, spa ambiance, the experience, none of which have bearing on stylist talent and result. I've seen some real cr@p, especially color corrections my wife has done, come out of the upscale salons. But, hey, some people believe more money buys better, so what is one to do?
Tomcat33 Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Some places they merely have you convinced you HAVE to spend a ton of money to look good. Not so. I don't HAVE to spend the money I WANT to spend it because I CAN spend it. Big difference. $100 on hair is peanuts to me. Literally peanuts. I have expensive taste, because I can afford to. I treat myself to a lot of things that I don't have to have but that I want to have, what is the point of working if you can't treat yourself to what you like?
Tomcat33 Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Wildly off-topic, but yeah, style/cuts are 45-60 in my wife's salon (not in a big city). And that is TOTALLY reasonable. In my city 60 would be starting range, what I spend is mid range and then you can spend in the posh salons upwards of $300 I don't need to beacause I found a guy who is perfect for me. Also it's security. Your W has regular customers I am sure who will pay the $60 even though other places my chage $30 and if she is worth it why not? I can go with a $140 pair of shoes instead of $600 if I want to cut corners but hair is a different story..
carhill Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Yes, I would think that most women are pretty loyal to their stylists (if regular customers) even with pricing disparities. The interesting thing is that regular customers who pre-book often enjoy preferential pricing, mainly because :a. they are "regulars" and b. they don't let their hair get out of whack/do their own cut/color/highlights at home, hence making my wife's job simpler. Regulars also get the best time periods. Loyalty works both ways. Personally, I think it's all what one is used to. We've gone to LA, San Fran, Las Vegas and New York for hair shows and initially I was shocked at the average pricing, but then learned the business realities behind it. Far different than our world in podunk Cali
The Collector Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 I don't HAVE to spend the money I WANT to spend it because I CAN spend it. Big difference. $100 on hair is peanuts to me. Literally peanuts. I have expensive taste, because I can afford to. Partly because you expect the average man to put aside $1000 a month for dating women like you. Handy principles you have there.
2sure Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Partly because you expect the average man to put aside $1000 a month for dating women like you. Handy principles you have there. It IS unfair to expect the average guy to afford this....but what about women who dont want to date average men? She is entitled to her very own requirements of course!
Tomcat33 Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 Partly because you expect the average man to put aside $1000 a month for dating women like you. Handy principles you have there. Where do you get off? Are you some kind of starving artist or something? I don't expect that OR want that. I said it made sense if he is going on 6-8 dates a month that he need to put that kind of money aside if he is paying for all the "dinner" dates. I don't serial date I am selective in who I date and if I accept a date with a guy it won't be 6-8 dinner dates in one month. Period. I have food and can feed myself thank you very much. Gees some of you people just have a one track mind. I can just as easily go hang out at a pub with a guy and have 2 drinks all night as I can hang out at a street festival (which is FREE). For cryin' out loud if you can't afford to pick up 2 measily G&Ts for a lady why even date?
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted September 16, 2008 Posted September 16, 2008 How many hairs do they cut for $10?
soserious1 Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I don't understand all this business of arguing about paying for dates. IMHO, dinner out,concerts, etc, those are special treats, reserved for after a relationship has been established. The first couple times out with someone should be inexpensive, going for coffee, sharing a home packed lunch in the park, bowling a few frames or playing a couple rounds of minature golf etc. Dating shouldn't bankrupt anybody those first couple, getting to know each other meetings should be about actually talking,being close enough to decide if there's sexual chemistry, not about expecting a guy to blow as much money as a husband would on an anniversary gift.
almost famous Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I guess it's odd that dinner is seen as this huge event that is going to break the bank for a guy. It's not a big deal. At least it shouldn't be. If you're too poor to ask a date out to dinner, you need to get a better job and get your life together. Having a meal out together is not an unusual or outlandish first date. It's what normal guys do who aren't cheap and poor or bad with their finances.
almost famous Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 it is unfair to expect the average guy to afford this....but what about women who dont want to date average men? She is entitled to her very own requirements of course! guys, it' s not rocket science. You don't have to take her to a 4 star restaurant and order dom perignon,for god's sake. Take her to the great hole in the wall cafe with a lot of character and pay $10 for cheeseburgers and awardwinning fries, or the great thai cafe if you are resenting doing this, then you need to get your life together.if treating a woman you're interested in to a $10 meal is making you feel like you're being taken for a ride and you are being viewed as a sugardaddy, you have issues. I'm hearing a lot of resentment from men here over stupid things and i think it is lucky to women that these particular angry men are single.
vonerik012 Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 guys, it' s not rocket science. You don't have to take her to a 4 star restaurant and order dom perignon,for god's sake. Take her to the great hole in the wall cafe with a lot of character and pay $10 for cheeseburgers and awardwinning fries, or the great thai cafe if you are resenting doing this, then you need to get your life together.if treating a woman you're interested in to a $10 meal is making you feel like you're being taken for a ride and you are being viewed as a sugardaddy, you have issues. I'm hearing a lot of resentment from men here over stupid things and i think it is lucky to women that these particular angry men are single. It is only when people make statements like the above, when others come off as bitter in their rebuttal. The question at hand is more of a theoretical one, than not being able to afford 10 dollars. What if I said "Well, if you are a woman and can't spend 5 minutes to do my dishes, well then you are a lazy loser". See how dumb that sounds? The point some are making is, many women today only want to hold onto old, outdated, traditional gender roles when it benefits them.
Taramere Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 It is only when people make statements like the above, when others come off as bitter in their rebuttal. The question at hand is more of a theoretical one, than not being able to afford 10 dollars. What if I said "Well, if you are a woman and can't spend 5 minutes to do my dishes, well then you are a lazy loser". See how dumb that sounds? The point some are making is, many women today only want to hold onto old, outdated, traditional gender roles when it benefits them. What would you see as the ideal way for events to unfold when the waiter places the bill on the table?
flc Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I guess it's odd that dinner is seen as this huge event that is going to break the bank for a guy. It's not a big deal. At least it shouldn't be. If you're too poor to ask a date out to dinner, you need to get a better job and get your life together. Having a meal out together is not an unusual or outlandish first date. It's what normal guys do who aren't cheap and poor or bad with their finances. Well, I think you also have to be a bit more open minded about why a guy does not have the finances to do this. He may have a great job and be very smart financially but has to put 40% or more of his net income in alimony and child support payments. Now maybe you don't want a guy that has those obligations but those of us who are divorced have to deal with this.
vonerik012 Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Tara, I am old fashioned. I make good money, and I want to pay. I am arguing from a theoretical stand point. If women spent more time concentrating on being feminine, more men would have no problem paying. The man should be a man right? Well the female should be a female as well. Also, a sincere thank you, or appreciation would be nice as well. From reading these threads, it seems to just be EXPECTED that men foot the bill for all dating activities, just because they are men. The best situation is after a few dates it just flows.. Many , many women never want to chip in on any dates, no longer how you are with them. I know a girl dating a guy for 2 years who is calling him cheap because he will not pay for all their dinners, or because he complained about it.
Taramere Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Tara, I am old fashioned. I make good money, and I want to pay. I am arguing from a theoretical stand point. If women spent more time concentrating on being feminine, more men would have no problem paying. The man should be a man right? Well the female should be a female as well. Also, a sincere thank you, or appreciation would be nice as well. From reading these threads, it seems to just be EXPECTED that men foot the bill for all dating activities, just because they are men. The best situation is after a few dates it just flows.. Many , many women never want to chip in on any dates, no longer how you are with them. I know a girl dating a guy for 2 years who is calling him cheap because he will not pay for all their dinners, or because he complained about it. Okay. So it has less to do with feeling antagonistic towards the notion that picking up the tab on a first date is commonly viewed as the chivalrous thing to do, more to do with the sense that people have an expectation that "this is what you should do, because you're the man..." As soon as we start talking in terms of what people should do (depending on their gender) that rather dispiriting sense of "I'll get no genuine acknowledgement or appreciation for any effort I make to be polite or considerate, because I'm talking to someone who thinks it's their God given right to expect certain things from me" sets in. In that sense, I think this has less to do with feminism as it has to do with immaturity, social graces and a certain self-centredness. Feminism doesn't necessarily equate with those things.
vonerik012 Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I am in no way making the connection between feminism and feeling entitled. What I am saying is many women these days, (those that lean towards the feminist agenda), do not believe in gender roles anymore. They want a career, do not feel it is a woman's duty to be domestic, do not feel their man should come first, view sex like men do, etc. HOWEVER, they DO feel men should pay on dates. As if that is the one gender role that is acceptable, and needs to be kept in place. So, I feel if you are a traditional thinking woman, (and there still are some), you deserve to be treated in a more chivalric manner. If you are a more feminist leaning woman, things should be 50-50. Why? Well with a more traditional woman, chances are you are being treated in a manner that is more beneficial to you, in other ways besides money. If you are dating a modern feminist thinking career woman, what she has to offer is money, to compensate for her lack of traditional roles.
marlena Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Sorry, but I find men who participated on this thread to be cheap as well. Real guys don't need to brainstorm about paying for a date or not. Absolutely. In my country they say, "cheap with his wallet, cheap with his emotions."
The Collector Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 It's not a question of cheapness, it's a question of there being no logical reason why women should get free meals just because that's the way they like it. Unless you accept that cheap is a sexist term that can only ever refer to men, it is clearly the person not paying their share who is cheap. I don't buy women's company. I don't flash my cash as a way to impress. I don't need to.
Taramere Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Why? Well with a more traditional woman, chances are you are being treated in a manner that is more beneficial to you, in other ways besides money. If you are dating a modern feminist thinking career woman, what she has to offer is money, to compensate for her lack of traditional roles. I see. Roll back to the last serious relationship I was in. What did he get out of it? Quite a lot, I'd say. For instance, the benefits that come from being with someone who's been professionally trained to manage difficult behaviour and conflicts without getting too bent out of shape. Also, I made him laugh. Sometimes. Interesting conversation. And I would cook nice(ish) meals with candles and music and all that stuff. And sex. And an unphased attitude towards the fact that his personal approach to feminism mainly centred around always going Dutch. I drew the line at him cheating, but all in all I'd say I was a fairly tolerant and supportive girlfriend, despite having professional responsibilities that meant I couldn't focus on trying to be a perfect girlfriend 100% of the time. I take exception to the notion that professionally qualified women are something less, and have something less to offer - as women - than those who choose not to get professionally qualified and not to take much interest in matters outside the home and their immediate family. What most women probably do involves trying to juggle femininity with modern day realities and responsibilities. Like men, we can't always achieve a perfect balance.
marlena Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I don't buy women's company. I don't flash my cash as a way to impress. I don't need to. It's not buying a women's company. I don't view it that way at all. I don't think there are many women who would go out with a man just to have a meal,LOL!! My take is that it is the person who does the asking who should pay. Especially at the beginning of dating. After that, I suppose it goes back and forth. I have noticed that people who are generous with their money are usually very generous with their feelings, too. They know how to give. Someone with crabs in his/her pockets is, well, stingy with everything.
carhill Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 Solution: Learn from experience and make better choices, both in whom one asks out for a dinner date and which dates one accepts As I tend to see a lot of "baggage" (a societal euphemism to describe past experiences) in women my age, I have the ability to go back in time and see exactly how men have treated these women to get them where they are today. Fascinating. Actions to which I ascribe one meaning have a totally different meaning to them based on their past experiences. This dinner paying thing is just one tiny aspect of that, as noted by the direction of the discussion.
CaliGuy Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 I agree with you, Carhill. As a gentleman, if I ask a woman on a date, I pay. It's that simple. I'm also OK with going Dutch. If she asks me on a date, then I can see where letting her pay is OK too. I'm kind of old school when it comes to dating but that is how I was raised. I don't see it as buying her company. I see it as COURTING.
marlena Posted September 17, 2008 Posted September 17, 2008 As a gentleman, if I ask a woman on a date, I pay. It's that simple. I'm also OK with going Dutch. If she asks me on a date, then I can see where letting her pay is OK too. I'm kind of old school when it comes to dating but that is how I was raised. I don't see it as buying her company. I see it as COURTING. Totally with you on this, Cali. I have refused to date someone a second time simply because he didn't have the courtesy to pay. I guess I am still a romantic at heart and want to be treated like a lady.
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