Men should pay for dates meals.

[Walk]

I was thinking the other day about how (some) women seem to hold the belief that men should pay for dates. That a man is not worthy of dating unless he pays for the meal.

 

I was born in the early '70s. About 50 years prior to this, women were first allowed to vote. In the 1960s, rape began to be defined as sex without consent. In the '70s, only 8.2% of women attained a bachelor's degree (of the entire population). By the '80s that had risen to 13.6%.

 

In the 1960s, women's fight was to thow out the idea that a woman's purpose was for reproduction, mothering, and the responsibility for maintaining the domestic sphere.

 

The median income in 2000 for females with a high school diploma was $21,963, compared to $30,868 for males with a high school diploma. Females with bachelor's degrees earned $35,408 in 2000, compared with $49,982 for males.

 

Today, women expect a man to pay for dinner when out on a date. I've read a few opinions on here that a man who doesn't pay isn't worth dating anymore. So how do you feel about it?

Do you agree with it?

How does this mentality fit in with the idea's and struggles that previous generations have lived through?

Is this outlook (men paying) a positive transition in our lives and relationships, or a negative? And why?

And why do you think this mentality is thriving at this time?

[Jilly Bean]

This question comes up from time to time, so I will offer my feelings again.

 

I feel if a man invites me on a date, then yes, I expect him to pay and I don't reach for my wallet, nor do I even make the pretense of offering to pay. I also expect him to plan a date that is within his budget, so the expense should not be an issue nor a hardship.

 

If I invited a man somewhere, say I had concert tickets, I would not expect him to reimburse me (just buy dinner first - lol).

 

This is my view during COURTSHIP.

 

Once a solid exclusive relationship is established, then we both end up switching off on who pays, and it becomes a lot less of an issue.

 

I'm a little old-fashioned when it comes to this kind of thing, so for me, this is the way I prefer my dating life to go. I know many women on here that comment they go dutch, or offer to pay. That's cool, just not the right dynamic for me.

[Rooster_DAR]

Well obviously the person who pays on the first date is more than likely the pursuer. I think it goes both ways though, if a female ask me to go somewhere with there then I would think she would pick up the bill.

 

Regards,

[JoeNewbie]

This question comes up from time to time, so I will offer my feelings again.

 

I feel if a man invites me on a date, then yes, I expect him to pay and I don't reach for my wallet, nor do I even make the pretense of offering to pay. I also expect him to plan a date that is within his budget, so the expense should not be an issue nor a hardship.

 

If I invited a man somewhere, say I had concert tickets, I would not expect him to reimburse me (just buy dinner first - lol).

 

This is my view during COURTSHIP.

 

Once a solid exclusive relationship is established, then we both end up switching off on who pays, and it becomes a lot less of an issue.

 

I'm a little old-fashioned when it comes to this kind of thing, so for me, this is the way I prefer my dating life to go. I know many women on here that comment they go dutch, or offer to pay. That's cool, just not the right dynamic for me.

 

I agree 100% with the above.

[JoeNewbie]

Well obviously the person who pays on the first date is more than likely the pursuer. I think it goes both ways though, if a female ask me to go somewhere with there then I would think she would pick up the bill.

 

Regards,

 

Agreed as well!

[Shygirl15]

Like I said before, I find it absolutely ridiculous to pay on dates. I can pay if I want, but I shouldn't be expected to do so. Especially the first date.

 

Now, if we're in a relationship, that's a different story.

[jerbear]

I believe it is whoever asks who out should pay.

 

Being a guy, I would always attempt to pay but sometimes would get spoiled by the sisterhood. The date would specifically tell the waitress to give her the bill instead of me. :mad:

 

Regarding budgets, yes, I'll take the date to one within my budget and still pay. If she wants an more upscale restaurant it will have to be a special occassion.

 

I think the mentality is thriving because of the economy!! It is also part of "traditional" dating where the guy asks the girl and entertains her versus the other way around.

 

I believe it is good for men, it gives them a reason to strive for a better life, face it, having an testosterone induced competition is annoying sometimes. Also, helps us guys keep our bollocks.

[Tomcat33]

I see men paying as more of a symbolic gesture in the dating process. It denotes that a man is genuinely interested in being with a woman, and because of this attraction and interest he has for her he is willing to extend his own hard earnings to show her that he cares about pleasing her. If you think about it a pretty unconditional move and a lot of investment on a guy's part very early on. I have a LOT of appreciation for that in men.

 

To strip a man of that, and also yourself as woman is doing both genders a disservice.

 

If a guy EVER asked me out and at the end of the date expected me to pitch in or pay I would feel he saw me as any other woman out there, basically nothing special. I had one time where a guy hinted at me going dutch on our third date and I never saw him again, it turned me right off.

[Walk]

For Jilly Bean and Shygirl, how many times do you actually ask a man out? Like twice, three times a year, maybe? You can't pretend to claim it's a fair deal you've got going on there. You're claiming it goes both ways when reality is you rarely pay for dates. I know neither of you go on many dates where you've asked men out because both of you said men should chase you.

 

What I'm hearing is both of you want free meals. You can sit there and look cute, but you deserve to be paid for your time.

 

How does a guy paying you to spend a couple hours with him prove he's a good guy?

[JoeNewbie]

How does a guy paying you to spend a couple hours with him prove he's a good guy?

 

It doesn't.

 

Just as getting a university degree doesn't make you smart - but it does get you more job interviews.

[Tomcat33]

It doesn't.

 

Just as getting a university degree doesn't make you smart - but it does get you more job interviews.

 

 

Great answer!

 

 

It is an investment isn't it?

 

I always figured if he is not investing it in me he is going to have to invest it in some other girl so if I am interested in him why not it be me?

 

Walk would you mind if I ask something along the lines of what you posted here in terms of men's experiences of paying for women in dates? I am curious about something. Feel free to say "no start your own thread" and I won't be offended.

[Jilly Bean]

What I'm hearing is both of you want free meals. You can sit there and look cute, but you deserve to be paid for your time.

 

Wow. So, now a woman that is old-fashioned, believes in courtship and prefer a chivalrous man is a gold-digging whore? I honestly don't know how you jumped to such a banal conclusion.

 

I make more than enough money and I can buy my own dinner. And I don't view a date as a situation in which I am being "paid for my time". I am not an escort - lol, and I don't accept dates with men I am not genuinely interested in so that they can buy me food. In fact, I never go out with anyone I am not genuinely interested in, and therefore, I have very few solo first dates. Most develop into something more.

 

Perhaps for you, dating is an exchange of services in which you are buying women for their companionship and nothing more, but for me, it is about getting to know someone, connecting, talking, sharing, having fun, and hopefully growing and furthering a bond towards something more meaningful.

 

Lastly, as I said, I expect a man to arrange a date that is within his budget. Not all of my dates are 5 star dining experiences, nor do they need to be. Most of my really memorable dates didn't involve a lot of money being spent.

 

Again, not sure why you took such a leap in your conclusions on this.

[JoeNewbie]

Perhaps for you, dating is an exchange of services in which you are buying women for their companionship and nothing more, but for me, it is about getting to know someone, connecting, talking, sharing, having fun, and hopefully growing and furthering a bond towards something more meaningful.

 

How about phone sex? Is that an exchange or a one-way?

[Walk]

I see men paying as more of a symbolic gesture in the dating process.

 

To strip a man of that, and also yourself as woman is doing both genders a disservice.

I'm not suggesting that we turn men into little princesses. However, I'm appalled at how self-serving, egotistical, and spoiled some women act when it comes to dating and relationships. All I hear is, "I want, I want". As though the mere act of passively attending a meal is justification for repayment of the time used.

 

It's one thing to appreciate having a meal paid for, to be grateful that someone would be willing to offer to feed you for free. It's completely different to expect/demand that the meal to be paid for.

 

That same mentality of having meals paid for transcends into the whole relationship. It doesn't stop the moment a man and woman become monogamous.

 

If a guy EVER asked me out and at the end of the date expected me to pitch in or pay I would feel he saw me as any other woman out there, basically nothing special. I had one time where a guy hinted at me going dutch on our third date and I never saw him again, it turned me right off.

How does purchasing your time equate to special? You dropped him because he hinted that maybe you should pay your own share. Unless you have other areas that raised suspicions or concerns, then it sounds as though you are saying that he owed you a free meal for attending a meal with him.

 

Why do women deserve to have dinners paid for? The majority of us make as much, if not more, then our male counter parts. A great deal of women are no longer constrained to doing all the household chores. We expect our partners to shoulder their half of the chores. We expect men to cook, clean, do laundry, run errands, grocery shop. We expect men to still work and pursue a good career. I thought we were looking for respect. Instead, we sell ourselves off to the highest bidder.

[Trialbyfire]

Walk, I'm giving my personal perspective so that people don't get their knickers in a knot. Here's what seems to work for me:

 

First date: The man always pays. I don't pursue men or ask them out. The only time I pay is if I don't want a second date. This means I pay the whole shebang.

 

Second date: I pay, regardless.

 

Then it repeats from there.

 

Having said that, I don't date men who can't afford this type of arrangement. I like my lifestyle and intend to keep it that way.

[vonerik012]

Not another who pays thread....

 

If men want any chance at getting laid, they pay.

 

There is no logical reason, other than carrying on some old tradition. Women feel they should be able to have the best of the old fashioned world, but not the bad parts. They want equality in all ways, accept of course if it comes to paying, lol.

[jerbear]

What I'm hearing is both of you want free meals. You can sit there and look cute, but you deserve to be paid for your time.

 

How does a guy paying you to spend a couple hours with him prove he's a good guy?

Wow... I must have been ripped off then!

 

Honestly, I don't think that is always the case. It can go the other way. I think women know what the guy wants by the type of date.

 

A guy paying for a date does nothing to prove if he's a good guy.

[vonerik012]

I see men paying as more of a symbolic gesture in the dating process. It denotes that a man is genuinely interested in being with a woman, and because of this attraction and interest he has for her he is willing to extend his own hard earnings to show her that he cares about pleasing her. If you think about it a pretty unconditional move and a lot of investment on a guy's part very early on. I have a LOT of appreciation for that in men.

 

To strip a man of that, and also yourself as woman is doing both genders a disservice.

 

If a guy EVER asked me out and at the end of the date expected me to pitch in or pay I would feel he saw me as any other woman out there, basically nothing special. I had one time where a guy hinted at me going dutch on our third date and I never saw him again, it turned me right off.

 

 

Look..

 

I know guys that spend their entire paycheck at the strip joint... Or they go to a bar and buy everyone drinks...They spend 500 on a night out...

 

If that guy buys you dinner, is it some symbolic gesture? It means nothing.

 

If you are dating SOLELY him, then I could understand.. But what about serial daters like some of the women on here? They are going out with guys they do not even like, then just expecting him to pay.. Almost like they just need free entertainment or attention with a different guy every night..

[Tomcat33]

How does purchasing your time equate to special? You dropped him because he hinted that maybe you should pay your own share. Unless you have other areas that raised suspicions or concerns, then it sounds as though you are saying that he owed you a free meal for attending a meal with him.

 

 

First of all he is not purchasing MY time he is purchasing entertainment just as he would if he were out drinking with friends, going to the movies or buying a round of golf for he and his buds.

We all put entertainment money aside to do what makes us feel good. If being out with me makes him feel good and he wants to pay for the drinks or a dinnner and see me again, I like that. No truing to candy coat it.

 

Second of all, the guy I dumped because he asked me to pitch in was because we went out for dinner I had already eaten and was not hungry but he was so he ordered a meal I ordered a $3 appetizer just so that he would not eat alone HE insisted. Then we went for a drink which is what I thought we WOUld do but he had shown up hungry (so we went for dinner so that he could eat) and then we went for drinks and I had two drinks. He wanted me to pitch in. It was a third date, he shows up hungry and because he spends more than he had liked I have to pay for half? We are not going out so BUHHHBYE!!

 

And THEN he has the nerve to call me and ask me why I did not want to see him again. Whatev. It showed disregard all around, it was not about NOT paying for the two measly drinks it is about this attitude that I should do what he feels and on top of it pay. If he doesn't do it for me he will do it for the next girl so I don't feel bad in that respect.

 

Why do women deserve to have dinners paid for?

 

I don't feel I deserve it, I like it. If he asks me out on a date he pays end of story. If I later once we start dating regularly, ask him out to a show or invite him over for dinner or invite him out for a drink I pay, I don't say "hey come over for dinner tonight, but bring the meat the veggies and wine and I will cook"

 

Just so happens when I do want to pay or take them out the men I end up with NEVER accept, they always use the "yeah yeah next time you pay" and next time never comes. So I just get them surprise tickets to something so that I can contribute too because I don't like it when it is SO one sided but they seem to love it. I've had guys get very offended saying stuff like "don't you dare reach in for that wallet"

I love it!! It makes me feel so feminine..and it makes me appreciate the gesture THAT much more.

 

 

Another thing is I am always VERY modest in what I order if we go for dinner or drinks simply because I don't feel I am out so the man can FEED ME or QUENCH MY THIRST. I let him pay but I also moderate my consumption to make the expense of the date realistic, I am VERY considerate and I always thank them for the gesture, THEY LOVE IT, I love it we end up dating some more before we know it we are screwing each other's brains out and we fall in love.

 

Now why in the world would I tamper with that?

[Tomcat33]

Look..

 

I know guys that spend their entire paycheck at the strip joint... Or they go to a bar and buy everyone drinks...They spend 500 on a night out...

 

If that guy buys you dinner, is it some symbolic gesture? It means nothing.

 

If you are dating SOLELY him, then I could understand.. But what about serial daters like some of the women on here? They are going out with guys they do not even like, then just expecting him to pay.. Almost like they just need free entertainment or attention with a different guy every night..

 

I don't date serial daters or LOSERS that hang out at strip joints I tend to attract quality men that are selective, as I am so the gesture is a special one.

 

And you know what else it doesn't stop after we start sleeping together they become even more giving.

[vonerik012]

Tomcat,

 

I have found that it is usually broke women that are very insistent on the man continuing to pay. They try to come up with every shaming tactic imaginable, to justify why men must continue to pay for them. Can I use your line.. Is this the 1950's? Or is it just the 1950's when it benefits you..

 

And your half-hearted reach into your purse comes off as fake, and it is very transparent.

 

For the record I have no problem paying..But I also have plenty of money.. If I did not, I would have a problem paying. And I tend to stay away from the feminists anyway..So I do not mind paying for a lady.

[Tomcat33]

And your half-hearted reach into your purse comes off as fake, and it is very transparent.

 

 

 

When the bill comes I don't even gesture. It is understood he pays. This is the way it is the first time he asks me out and if we go out again nothing changes and clearly he gets my vibe.

 

When I say the guys I have dated won't accept is because I can plan a date that requires a bill at the end of the night and he will NOT let me pay at all almost to the point where we almost fight about it. That has been my experience.

 

I have always dated and had relationships with men that had money, they also had class and weren't cheap skates also very nice qualities for a man to have because if we do end up long term those are important long term qualities for me especially if he might be the father of my children some day. I don't want to have children in a household where they feel they have to EARN every single little joy a child should have. I am a very giving person and I hope that my partner will also be.

[carhill]

I prefer to pay when entertaining a lady. Keeps things simple and we can focus on other aspects of being with each other rather than who picks up the check. A lady knows she's reached a special place when I invite her home to cook for her (instead of eating out) since I vastly prefer to cook my own recipes than eat someone else's

 

My wife pays for meals when she needs the miles, or when she's starving and we dive into a drive-through

 

The only women I can recall, while single, paying for my meal/drinks, etc. have been female friends (non-romantic). We switch off picking up the check, similar to what I do with my male friends.

[vonerik012]

When the bill comes I don't even gesture. It is understood he pays. This is the way it is the first time he asks me out and if we go out again nothing changes and clearly he gets my vibe.

 

When I say the guys I have dated won't accept is because I can plan a date that requires a bill at the end of the night and he will NOT let me pay at all almost to the point where we almost fight about it. That has been my experience.

 

I have always dated and had relationships with men that had money, they also had class and weren't cheap skates also very nice qualities for a man to have because if we do end up long term those are important long term qualities for me especially if he might be the father of my children some day. I don't want to have children in a household where they feel they have to EARN every single little joy a child should have. I am a very giving person and I hope that my partner will also be.

 

I guess unless it comes to paying your half on a date, lol..

 

Think of it from a males point of view.. Men know many women are selfish, out for a free meal, or gold diggers. If you just sit back and let him pay or do your "fake pay" move, how does that make you seem like a true partner? Or that you would be?

 

All it is is sexual blackmail. It does not prove the man is generous or capable. He might just be conforming against his will, and think you are just cheap.

 

I still pay for dates, and don't really care about money. If I want to get laid, obviously I have to pay. I can't be trying to change old traditions at the expense of getting sex.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat,

 

I have found that it is usually broke women that are very insistent on the man continuing to pay. They try to come up with every shaming tactic imaginable, to justify why men must continue to pay for them. Can I use your line.. Is this the 1950's? Or is it just the 1950's when it benefits you..

 

 

And TRUST me I am FAR from broke! But of course when you date nothing but 22 yr old girls who are just starting out in the world and are prob still in school, because women over 30 are over the hill and useless that, WOULD be your experience!