voyeurism/compersion turned mean

[happyorb]

This is my first post, but I've been reading for a while, so I know I'll get an earful of "this is proof that this stuff ruins marriages" from some on this board. However, I would like to preempt at least a little finger-wagging by noting that we've been married for 10 years and doing this kind of "dangerous" stuff for 12 years. We're not divorcing. But we do go in cycles of what we find acceptable -- sometimes monogamous, sometimes not. And I think our relationship is about to cycle through a big change. What it changes into, well, that's the advice I'm here for.

 

My wife & I have an open relationship. Back when I married her, she and my best man gave each other hand jobs in our hot tub the night before the wedding. I was fine with it, in fact, a little turned on while I watched. I think that's what compersion means, right? I didn't feel betrayed, I married her anyway, and I've enjoyed the last 10 years a lot.

 

A few years into our marriage, we had some threesomes with a very pretty woman. That was fun, and in fact probably even saved our marriage at one point. That tapered off when my wife got bored/jealous/something, and I was happy to put my wife first, so I did.

 

After a long run of monogamy, I was getting restless for some spark. We had started to let ourselves go a bit, each gained about 20 pounds, settled into marriage and kids and work. I wondered what we could do. I asked her one night to talk dirty to me about someone she knew, and she gave me this filthy-sexy rant about her yoga instructor. It was really, really hot for me to hear her all full of lust & butterflies, so I told her any time she wanted him, let me know and I would accommodate. But I gave her a ground rule: I need to be involved. I didn't want to feel clueless, and I didn't want to feel like I was being cheated on. She could just tell me about it afterward, or invite me to watch, or something. My hope was that it'd cross over to dirty talk in our bedroom.

 

I thought that a woman would be thrilled at the idea that she could keep a loving steady husband and get away with a little illicit nookie on the side. I mean, I guess it's not illicit if she has permission, but it still felt pretty wild. I thought the "cost" to maintain this (keeping me satisfied with talk about it or voyeurism) was pretty low of a burden. I assumed she'd take the offer. And she did.

 

She's been fooling around for a few months now, and I was really happy until the last few weeks. When I say really happy I mean ecstatic. I mean joy. Our sex life has not only rekindled, but it's a frigging bonfire. All the things that I suspected came true -- she now weighs what she did as a high school senior cheerleader. She bought new skimpy outfits, and all sorts of feminine goodness has happened. And while my "price" is that she disappears one night a week (or so), I'm not the jealous type, and I sooooooo love the sex the rest of the week.

 

But over the last month, there have been a few times when she'd come home and ignore me. I wouldn't get to hear about the hot sex, or worse, she'd deride me for wanting to know. I thought that was odd, because she loves to be a sexy showoff. So I went online and read some stuff, and thought maybe I was getting cuckolded. I thought maybe I could get off on the idea that she's dominating me and denying me some sexual things she had agreed to do.

 

The idea of cuckolding doesn't really seem apt here. I don't have a small penis, I don't have a bad self-image, and because of an email my wife sent to her friend (more about that in a minute), I know I'm better in bed than the other guy. But if my wife came home one night and answered my request for something sexy with a really hot teasing denial, it'd probably work for me. I'd go with it.

 

But instead, her denials are really dull. Even in a cuckold situation, the woman is usually working with her partner(s) to give everybody the things they need, right? Even if she's denying something, she's somehow doing it in a way that totally gets the guy going. Right? Well, my wife skillfully avoided saying anything to get me going. I thought maybe she had fallen in love with the other guy and was starting to think that being with me was cheating on him.

 

Around this time, my computer broke. I asked my wife if I could hop on hers now & then until we got mine replaced. She was fine with that. Now, I don't usually snoop, in fact this is the first time ever. But one night she was out and I sat down at her computer to surf the Web. Up and running was her email program, displaying an email about the sex she was having. I read it, and it was mean. Mean like a person I've never met.

 

It was partly complimentary because she complained that the other guy couldn't come as hard or as often as I do. But it also had this:

 

ok just made another date with John for next Tues! He's gonna skip his own yoga class to let me come over and watch Fringe premiere (since we don't have cable!) isn't that nice, everybody in unison now say "Awwww!" anyways... of course husband thinks it's great and said he'll be sure to get home from work in time. what a weirdo. he has no clue. great for me, for now at least.

So it seems that she finds the whole "hotwife" situation to be great for her, but she holds me in contempt for enabling it. This doesn't make sense to me. And she's doing precisely the thing I asked to avoid -- I don't want to be some clueless third party to my own wife's sex life, and yet she's using that very language to describe me. It doesn't seem nice, it doesn't even seem hot from a cuckold perspective. It's just a dull sort of "Ugh, he's a creep" kind of vibe.

 

From the quote, you might note that tonight is the Fringe premiere. She's there now, and it's been hours. I assume they are screwing like rabbits. And I have to admit, that turns me on soooo much. Maybe to some reading this, that makes me a highly broken or defective person, but I'm just responding to the raging hard-on and the sexy rush I get. If I could get the same feeling from a quiet night of sex in the missionary position for the 10,000th time, that would be fine with me. But this is like a super-charged hotness that I've never felt before. And yet when she comes home, she will crush it. I now suspect that her perspective is that I'm a pervert in the most derogatory sense, but that what she is doing shouldn't have any negative terms attached to it. Personally, I agree about the latter part -- I don't think what she's doing is wrong, but I also don't think that what I'm doing is wrong. They seem coupled together. I don't understand how they've come apart.

 

So this is where I need advice. I love the feeling I get. I want to foster this. But I don't want my feelings to get crushed while she indulges her own. I want equality and fairness. And I don't think I can get it. So what should our discussion look like? If she's going to continue to ignore our agreement, do I ask to be free to find an equally satisfying lover? Do I tell her that since she isn't holding up her end of the bargain, the offer is no longer on the table? I know if I say that she can easily cheat, but then at least we're clear about what will be happening. And at least it means she will know why I say "no thanks" to coming home early from work to watch the kids while she goes out to play. I really don't want to endure a few more years of monogamy while we regroup and reassess, but it may be better than sitting home alone and being ignored.

[Trimmer]

Boy, I don't think I have a lot to offer here. One thing: What is this "compersion" you are talking about...

 

Edit: Never mind - I looked it up. Google or Wikipedia...

 

The only other thing I have to offer is that I suppose the lifestyle you have lived can work as long as you are getting what you want from it. Putting myself in your position, I would think that I would want a solid foundation of love and dedication to each other. Sure, I can imagine how sex with someone else would be great, but there would have to be a priority on our fundamental relationship - I would have to know that the foundations were solid. All the rest of it is acting: either acting out fantasies for real, or acting one way or another toward each other to turn each other on, or whatever,

 

However, even if I accept the premise that this lifestyle can work, if done carefully, one line from your Email distresses me greatly:

"what a weirdo. he has no clue. "

Strip away all the lifestyle choices, the rules, the acting, the hotness, and doesn't this reveal a fundamental flaw in your relationship? The word you used, "contempt" is the one that comes to my mind. And the context in which you saw this wasn't her acting like the cuckolding wife to turn you on - you can't help but think she really meant it.

 

So, the question is, even if one grants that some may become turned on at the idea (and even the fantasy acting out) of being cuckolded by a contemptuous wife, how are you handling the idea that she might actually be a truly contemptuous cuckolding wife?

 

So I see this not so much as an issue of "how do we structure the open marriage, what rules do we put in place, etc..." as much as there might be a really fundamental flaw here at a way deeper level.

[happyorb]

So, the question is, even if one grants that some may become turned on at the idea (and even the fantasy acting out) of being cuckolded by a contemptuous wife, how are you handling the idea that she might actually be a truly contemptuous cuckolding wife?

Yeah, I was only half turned on by the cuckold thing. I much prefer our original arrangement -- we're both nice to each other, we both satisfy each other, I agree she gets away with some naughty stuff, she tells me about it, we have good sex together.

 

So if she's actually going to be this contemptous cuckolding wife, then that's pretty awful. I wouldn't abide it. I'd work with her to fix things, if she's open to it. I'd also be willing to cool our relationship and put energy into affairs. I'd also be open to saying that it's just over, she won't look at me the same again, and I won't be with someone who hates me. I don't think she's going to pick that option though.

 

So I see this not so much as an issue of "how do we structure the open marriage, what rules do we put in place, etc..." as much as there might be a really fundamental flaw here at a way deeper level.

I don't disagree. I believe that I've stumbled onto something dark about her, something that I've never seen before. My opening lines of my post were not meant to imply that everything we've done is beyond reproach, but merely that divorce is not the only conclusion. We've been at this point in the past in our marriage -- we try things, like some, hate others, pull back, try again. But this time I stumbled onto something mean-spirited that I didn't expect. That's true.

 

I still don't think that means that the marriage is broken. People get upset, and they can work through it. But I guess some of the questions I have now are things like, "What the hell just happened?" and "Why?"

 

I think I may undo whatever she's feeling by simply reversing whatever wrong direction I took. I'm not wedded to such kink, so if calming her requires disavowing our activities, I'm OK with it. Kind of sad, though, as I think even in the state she's in, she'd agree that the sex has been the best of our lives. And even if I disavow it, I'm not sure at this point it'll work, because I don't understand the logic of it. Maybe it's not meant to be logical. Maybe she has a contradiction inside of her and she's fine with it.

 

I did leave her a note. I didn't cop to reading her email, but I didn't need to, since she's made comments about it being weird to my face. So I just wrote to her, "I'm getting on board with your feeling that it's weird, and I'm liking it less, and if you want to pull back, let's do that."

 

But then she didn't reply. No note, no call, no email, no text message. I've certainly seen her in person, but I didn't want to push it if she wasn't ready to address it. But it has been two days now.

 

I kind of wonder if my message struck upon the contradiction in her -- she feels I'm a freak for liking this stuff, but now that I've agreed and offered to pull back, she's stuck. The only way to keep it is to claim to want it. She has some religion in her family, so it may be that she's using me as the fall guy for wicked behavior she likes. She was pretty mean, though. I don't know if I want to be the fall guy for her after that.

 

I don't know. I'm going to bed. I'm sure there will be many cruel things said about me while I sleep, but whatever the case, I still hope I find solutions. Maybe somebody here has been through something similar and can talk about the marriage and how it worked (or didn't).

[JamesM]

Simple answer....find a woman for yourself.

 

Personally, I think this marriage of yours may end. People change. Just because she once thought it was fun to have an open marriage does not mean she still enjoys it.

 

She may now love this guy and want more of him. Who knows?

 

I guess the best thing is a heart to heart talk. And then if she wants her yoga instructor, then I suggest that you take up yoga...in a different class.

[Lucky_One]

Some of this situation is just too much for my little brain to take, but I did want to mention one thing.

 

You feel betrayed in your agreement, bc she no longer wants to share the details of the hot sex. This sounds very much like she is starting to develop deep emotional ties to the OM. Most women simply don't like to share very intimate details about a lover with an "outsider". Her realization that privacy is important to intimacy makes your desire for the details weird, in that you must not feel the same intimacy for her and your sexual life. If you are willing to share her and then hear about it, she may think that is weird bc she is realizing that sharing someone you love isn't intimate.

 

She is getting emotionally hooked, possibly falling in love. So what do you do now?

[Jersey Shortie]

I have never been through anything like that but I know if my husband/boyfriend didn't care if I slept with other men and wanted to share my experiences of sleeping with other men, I think my respect for him would go down.I want to fee protected and cherished by my husband/boyfriend. I don't want to feel like i am being pimped out for his sexual amusment. I would have restentment personally. that's just the way i would feel though. And that's all I can offer on this.

[JackJack]

Simple answer....find a woman for yourself.

 

Personally, I think this marriage of yours may end. People change. Just because she once thought it was fun to have an open marriage does not mean she still enjoys it.

 

She may now love this guy and want more of him. Who knows?

 

I guess the best thing is a heart to heart talk. And then if she wants her yoga instructor, then I suggest that you take up yoga...in a different class.

 

I'm going to agree with this. It doesn't sound much like its about sex anymore. It sounds like maybe she has connected with this other person on a deeper/emotional level, and that far outweighs that of sex, it could be what ends your marriage. Not saying it will, but could.

[blair08]

I'm not at all bashing you for your choices, so please don't think that.

 

You probably already are aware of this too, but anytime anyone opens up their marriage for outsiders to come in, there is always that chance that one person or both, possibly could connect or develop feeling for another person involved. They are not just opening themselves up to sex with another but also to possibly emotionally connect from the heart with the other person.

 

I really don't know what to tell you. I think its whatever is most important to you. If you feel cutting off the open sex thing with others for you and her, to be able to work on your marriage and get it back on track, that might be what you need to do.

[Ronni_W]

So it seems that she finds the whole "hotwife" situation to be great for her, but she holds me in contempt for enabling it.

This would have been the far greater "cost" to you, that was always present, but that you did not foresee.

 

The thing is that things have changed to the extent that you're not comfortable/happy with the current situation. Even though you initiated it, you do have the right and power to ask for it to stop -- the role she's now playing no longer matches mutually agreed upon intentions and desires. She has reneged on her part of the original deal.

 

To me, these are your options: Ask it to stop and request marital counseling to see if she can rekindle her respect for you...or act like the "non jealous" husband, grow increasingly unhappy and resentful, and standby/observe as your self-confidence, self-worth and self-respect take a huge nosedive.

 

Given the attitude that she expressed about you, I wouldn't see a chance to revert to the original agreement (the one that included respect, mutuality, kindness, caring, etc. -- whatever you guys had in mind, that is.) It looks as if that ship likely has long sailed.

 

EDIT: Oops -- a 3rd option, "go directly to divorce." Doesn't sound as if you're there, but it is an option.

[nowhereman82]

First off....your marriage situation sounds pretty hot...up until it sounds like she formed an emotional connection with the OM.

 

Don't ignore this issue. Don't let it drop. Don't wait for her to address it. This is your marriage so you need to do anything you can. Her consensual sex with another man crossed the line when she has apparently emotionally cheated on you and closed you off.

 

Does the yoga instructor know about you? Does he know it's permission she has been given and not her sneaking behind your back?

 

Her comment about you being weird and clueless actually stung me when I read it. There is a lot of meaning in that bro and you need to confront it. That comment screamed of contempt, lack of regard, and maybe even something deeper...

 

Keep us posted and best of luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

You probably already are aware of this too, but anytime anyone opens up their marriage for outsiders to come in, there is always that chance that one person or both, possibly could connect or develop feeling for another person involved. They are not just opening themselves up to sex with another but also to possibly emotionally connect from the heart with the other person.

Couldn't the OP determine whether or not this is true by telling his W he wants to go back to a traditional marriage? I wonder what would be her reaction to that request...

 

Mr. Lucky

[blair08]

Couldn't the OP determine whether or not this is true by telling his W he wants to go back to a traditional marriage? I wonder what would be her reaction to that request...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

Yes, I would think so. I think that's what he should do too, to see exactly what he may or may not be up against, to try to get things back on track if thats what they both want etc. and go from there.

[EnigmasMuse]

Sit down with your wife. Ask her what she wants from the marriage now? It seems it might be different than what she may ahve wanted at one point.

 

Do you feel she was/has been 100% on the same page with you about being in an open marriage? Just wondering, but whose idea was it orginally anyway for it to be open?