is living together the same?

[JamesM]

 

He has told me that he loves me and he wants us to get married someday. He is scared, however. Should I ask him?

 

What if he says no?

[Mahatma]

 

Hmm, that's interesting (and kind of disheartening) that the only difference between the two is that you have to get a divorce in order to break up if you are married.

 

 

It is not quite like that. Marriage is not there to act like a form of security for your relationship. It is more of a person proving their commitment to you and you reciprocating it (given you are already living together)

[JamesM]

Here is an interesting story that relates to this thread....

 

http://www.warmwisdompress.com/marriage-relationships/The_Value_of_Marriage.aspx

[EnigmaXOXO]

Should I ask him?

 

My vote is for “yes.”

 

Only because it is my sincere belief that communication in any good relationship is key. You have to be at a point where the two of you are as comfortable confiding in each other as you would be any friend, family member or stranger. Even more so.

 

I gather from your posts that the two of you get on rather well, and should be able to discuss the issue as it relates to the plans you originally made together without it coming off as any sort of surprise. It can certainly be done in a way that doesn’t come off as confrontational if you can articulate your concerns as heartfelt and sincere as you have for everyone here.

 

And if he suffers a temporary lapse of selective memory and/or situational amnesia when it comes to your previous plans for ‘engagement’ ... then at least you’ll get a real good feel for where his head and heart is truly at (at this particular point in time).

 

I think it will go just fine ... but in case I’m being overly optimistic, I’m gonna keep my fingers crossed and wish the two of you good luck just the same!

[girlygirl25]

What if he says no?

 

What do you mean?

 

I'm not planning on asking him to marry me, just if he has any fears regarding marriage.

[girlygirl25]

My vote is for “yes.”

 

Only because it is my sincere belief that communication in any good relationship is key. You have to be at a point where the two of you are as comfortable confiding in each other as you would be any friend, family member or stranger. Even more so.

 

I gather from your posts that the two of you get on rather well, and should be able to discuss the issue as it relates to the plans you originally made together without it coming off as any sort of surprise. It can certainly be done in a way that doesn’t come off as confrontational if you can articulate your concerns as heartfelt and sincere as you have for everyone here.

 

And if he suffers a temporary lapse of selective memory and/or situational amnesia when it comes to your previous plans for ‘engagement’ ... then at least you’ll get a real good feel for where his head and heart is truly at (at this particular point in time).

 

I think it will go just fine ... but in case I’m being overly optimistic, I’m gonna keep my fingers crossed and wish the two of you good luck just the same!

 

Thank you for your response. The thing is, I have had conversations regarding how we both feel about getting married. HE has brought up it before, asking me how I felt about the two of us getting married. I told him that I wanted that to happen for us someday. I have asked him similar questions regarding whether we had a future together, whether or not he sees us getting married. He has said yes, and made it clear by talking about weddings and things that he wants the same thing I do.

 

The question I haven't asked him however, is what is making him scared to propose. I don't want to come off as pushy or pressuring him. My sister mentioned to me that he may be feeling pressured just by the mere fact that he knows that I want to get married, and he is the one who will decide it.

 

We have always had great communication in our relationship, we can talk to each other about anything. It's just that this subject is so touchy that I hate the thought of pressuring him. I don't want to guilt/force someone into marrying me.

 

I really hope the reason is that we are living together and he doesnt really feel we need to get married. It's just hard for me to believe that because he really DOES want to get married and have children. I don't know if I said this in the other thread but we were eating dinner the other night and he starting talking about all the reasons that our relationship is great. Like he said "I'm glad we are so happy, we get along, like to do the same things, have a lot in common, enjoy being in each other's company."

It's like he was listing the things he loves about our relationship. Is he trying to convince himself to propose to me?

[Terminator]

You all have been so helpful in the short while I have posted, so I thought I would post about something else.

 

I was having a conversation with my best friend the other day. She is married and lived with her boyfriend prior to getting engaged. I asked her if there is any difference between being married while living together as opposed to just living together.

 

She basically said that they did not experience a difference in how they lived together pre/post marriage. I started to think about this I wonder if she is right about that. Does anyone agree with her opinion/experience?

I'm curious to see what marriage as opposed to "just living together" will be like.

 

Please advise me!

 

No, it's not the same - there is no such thing as a "trial marriage", it's kind of like being pregnant or dead; you either are or you aren't

[carhill]

What do you mean?

 

I'm not planning on asking him to marry me, just if he has any fears regarding marriage.

Um, we're not clairvoyant

[EnigmaXOXO]

I caught the part where you explained that your boyfriend has often mentioned marriage being in his future plans as well. To the point where he often brings the subject up himself. Has his talk of your future plans and goals together stopped since you’ve moved in together?

 

It’s really hard to tell whether it’s really his fear of proposing or perhaps your fear that it won’t happen soon enough. Unless he’s already come right out and told you he was having second thoughts, I wouldn’t panic just yet.

 

Five months living together isn’t really all that long. Even given the time you spent dating before that. As a matter of fact, when you get my age five months seems more like five weeks!

 

Is there any chance of turning down the anxiety a bit and waiting (perhaps) to see what turns up under the Christmas tree, your next anniversary, or other special occasion? I know that a lot of guys like the ‘surprise’ element to their proposals. And not all of them will spoil it by taking their gals ring shopping before hand.

 

My daughter dated her current fiancé for 2-1/2 years before they got their own place together. They’d already been living together another year before he popped the question and surprised her with a ring on July 4th of this year (he was going for the “fireworks” effect ). They’re planning their wedding for October of 2010 ... which means by the time they finally tie the knot they will have already been together for 5-1/2 years. Living together for three of those.

 

If both of you young couples make it to the alter by that time ... perhaps you could come back and tell all of us ol’ jaded know-it-alls whether or not being married feels any different to you than just living together did. Or whether you think living together first spoiled your opportunity for a happily-ever-after.

 

Meanwhile, it’s simply my personal opinion that the perspective your friend already shared with you in regard to her relationship was a pretty candid and honest one. But everyone will have their own unique takes on the situation depending on how they interpret their own experiences with it ... good or bad.

 

In the end, you and your boyfriend will create your own.

[girlygirl25]

I think you all have gotten me addicted to this forum!

 

Anyway, he has actually been talking about marriage MORE frequently (and more seriously in the form of "we" instead of just getting married in general) since we began living together. I'm pretty sure he is going for a suprise proposal. A few months back he was asking questions about rings.

 

He hasn't told me he has had second thoughts, though last year when we had our huge blowout fight he did say that he was unsure about our relationship because I get "over-emotional and "overreact" to everything he does. We worked it out though through communication and have been going strong since.

 

What you mentioned about the holidays coming up, there is a possibility that he could propose for them. His family lives in another town, and we will be going to visit them, therefore it would probably be good timing for him to propose prior to visiting them so we could give them the good news.

 

My anxiety over this whole situation is that he is happy living together, therefore doesn't feel marriage is neccessary because it will not be any different from what we are doing now (hence the reason for the thread.)

I think I will hold off through the holidays and broach the subject in February or March before our lease runs out. Hopefully he will have some idea regarding engagement by that time.

 

Why are men so complicated? They should come with an instruction manual..life would be so much easier!

[norajane]

My anxiety over this whole situation is that he is happy living together, therefore doesn't feel marriage is neccessary because it will not be any different from what we are doing now (hence the reason for the thread.)

 

Has he actually SAID that to you, or are you imagining that's what he's thinking?

 

Because, honestly, just because you are now ready for marriage 5 months later is no reason that he should be exactly on your timetable. He may still be working on getting to where you are, rather than having a whole different mindframe about not wanting marriage because he gets nothing more out of it than he does living with you.

[girlygirl25]

Has he actually SAID that to you, or are you imagining that's what he's thinking?

 

Because, honestly, just because you are now ready for marriage 5 months later is no reason that he should be exactly on your timetable. He may still be working on getting to where you are, rather than having a whole different mindframe about not wanting marriage because he gets nothing more out of it than he does living with you.

 

No, he has not said that. Maybe that is my imagination or that stupid phrase "why buy the milk" or however the saying goes.

 

Thinking about it, I guess I am assuming that he should be on my timetable. I just don't understand why he isn't ready. Our relationship is wonderful and I truley believe we could make a marriage work. I hope he can see that.

[djhall]

No, he has not said that. Maybe that is my imagination or that stupid phrase "why buy the milk" or however the saying goes.

 

Thinking about it, I guess I am assuming that he should be on my timetable. I just don't understand why he isn't ready. Our relationship is wonderful and I truley believe we could make a marriage work. I hope he can see that.

In my experience, men who don't ever plan to follow through don't talk about marriage, getting married, rings, or proposals unless they absolutely have to or there is something negative to say. Any short-term gain they get from raising her hopes temporarily is lost and then some when she figures out the proposal isn't coming.

[girlygirl25]

In my experience, men who don't ever plan to follow through don't talk about marriage, getting married, rings, or proposals unless they absolutely have to or there is something negative to say. Any short-term gain they get from raising her hopes temporarily is lost and then some when she figures out the proposal isn't coming.

 

I hope you are right. He is not the type of man who would talk about marriage/engagement just to taunt me or raise my hopes. He probably doesn't even realize that it's confusing for me when he talks about it. I would think that if he didn't want marriage/want to marry me he wouldn't be talking about weddings...

[EnigmaXOXO]

My anxiety over this whole situation is that he is happy living together, therefore doesn't feel marriage is neccessary because it will not be any different from what we are doing now (hence the reason for the thread.)

 

Or alternatively, you could have found out you were not happy living together and tried to get married thinking it would fix it. I’ve seen a lot of couples pull that blunder.

 

Shoot. I’m no authority, but it sounds to me like you two are doing just fine. Try not to sweat the little stuff.

 

Oh ... and the “free milk and cow” analogy is the same as: “why buy the sausage if the pig is free.” At the end of the day, neither comparison has any intrinsic value except for its humor.

[girlygirl25]

Or alternatively, you could have found out you were not happy living together and tried to get married thinking it would fix it. I’ve seen a lot of couples pull that blunder.

 

Shoot. I’m no authority, but it sounds to me like you two are doing just fine. Try not to sweat the little stuff.

 

Oh ... and the “free milk and cow” analogy is the same as: “why buy the sausage if the pig is free.” At the end of the day, neither comparison has any intrinsic value except for its humor.

 

Yes, you are right. I'm really glad that we are compatible/enjoy living together. I actually think we will have a happy marriage!

 

The sayings are stupid, I wish people would just stop using them. I agree they don't have much validity. From the posts that I have read, I see that those expressions get thrown around a lot here...

[JamesM]

What do you mean?

 

I'm not planning on asking him to marry me, just if he has any fears regarding marriage.

 

My misinterpretation. It appeared to me that since he was scared, you were asking if YOU should ask him to marry you.

 

But if you want to ask him why he won't marry you and if he is scared, I kinda doubt that he will openly tell you if he is scared. Men are usually not like that. He will be "afraid" of two things: Hurting your feelings, and appearing too vulnerable. If he is the type who plans for every outcome, then he will be thinking of what each answer will do to his currently happy life.

 

SO, my guess is that a good heart to heart talk is the way to go, but don't expect him to tell you everything.

 

Besides, what will this talk lead to? Will he then no longer fear marriage because you convince him he need not be afraid? Or will he tell you his fears and you are going to say that you will patiently wait until he overcomes them? Knowing why he is reluctant to marry may not bring you any closer to your goal of marriage.

 

Always be prepared for all possible outcomes.

[JamesM]

 

Oh ... and the “free milk and cow” analogy is the same as: “why buy the sausage if the pig is free.” At the end of the day, neither comparison has any intrinsic value except for its humor.

 

Not true. The reality is if living together satisfies his every need, then marriage is no longer necessary. As you stated earlier, you don't need marriage because you have what you need while living together. A man with a full belly has little use for even the best steak. (There...another saying! )

 

But you do have a good point. If the expectation is that marriage will be happier than the present relationship, then this is not true. Just as some couples have babies to attempt to improve their marriage, so marriage can be wrongly used to fix a relationship.

 

One of the worst reasons to get married is because we are "in love." This feeling will pass and then what? What is needed is a deep commitment to the other person despite those times when we are not in love. If we stay married only because it feels good, then we are in for an unhappy life.

 

So again, if he is not ready, then HE needs to resolve this for himself. You cannot do it for him. He needs to know down the road when he feels unhappy in the marriage that he chose to get married, and he must never feel that he was pressured...even if lovingly...into marriage.

[girlygirl25]

Thank you for you help once again!

 

I gather from what you are saying that a "talk" would be alright, however maybe he won't tell me why he is scared or even if he is. It's very hard to be patient right now, I just feel sometimes like I'm "waiting" so to speak.

 

I think you hit it on the nail James, that nothing might even really come out of talking to him about it. I don't think I will be able to "convince" him to be ready so to speak..nor do I want to do that. I know marriage is a huge life altering step and my boyfriend is the type of person who has to have all his "ducks in a row" if you know what I mean. He would never just decide one day that he will propose, go by a ring, and do it. He has to have everything in place before doing that.

 

I don't know why I am driving myself crazy worrying about this. The purpose of the thread was more my paranoia that HE doesn't need marriage because we are living together. In my heart I know that he doesn't feel that way though.

[vonerik012]

I know some women who have lived with a boyfriend for 5-8 years, broken up, and then he married a different woman within 6 months.

 

Obviously he was ready to move in with you, but not be married to you. So that in itself shows there is a different level of commitment.

 

I do not think a woman should move in with a man, with the hopes of getting married. You should move in with him, because you want to live with him. For some men the constant availability and easy access bores them over time, and they will not marry the woman. Some men will. It just depends.

 

How long are you willing to wait?

[SnapCracklePop]

I believe that children, buying property, ect. should be reserved for marriage. Those are just the morals I grew up with and I do not with to do them outside of wedlock.

 

Like I said, marriage brings a whole lot of things. Deeper committment, public declaration, recognized by God. Living together doesn't do that.

 

I have to say that I disagree. If you get married thinking that it will bring you a deeper committment, then I think you expect too much of marriage. The feeling you have for your SO should be no different once you are married. You should already feel deeply committed to your partner. Kids on the other hand - that is definitely a major change in your relationship.

 

Recognized by god? Hmmm ok you can think that. Adam and Eve were never married, but their relationship was recognized by God. If you go by the bible, as I recall it was John the Baptist that implemented marriage - not God. Other faiths will have different ideas regarding who instituted marriage and why. Regardless, marriage by the books are your vows to each other before God. If that is the part that is sacred and important to a couple - are marriage licenses and other legalities necessary?

 

Living together in my opinion can be a public declaration - it really depends on the intent of both people as they start living together - probably a good idea to talk about that before living together then. If two people are moving in together just to share a bed, then it is not really a deep commitment. Then again, some people get married just to share a bed too. Some people get married because traditionally, that is just what people do - it is what previous generations did so we are expected to do the same. My views on marriage used to be that is was a must - to have a true partnership and kids you must be married, otherwise you are just dating and not serious. Today my views on marriage have changed drastically.

 

What I am saying is that marriage vs living together - depending on the couple - can have the same level of commitment and meaning.

[girlygirl25]

I know some women who have lived with a boyfriend for 5-8 years, broken up, and then he married a different woman within 6 months.

 

Obviously he was ready to move in with you, but not be married to you. So that in itself shows there is a different level of commitment.

 

I do not think a woman should move in with a man, with the hopes of getting married. You should move in with him, because you want to live with him. For some men the constant availability and easy access bores them over time, and they will not marry the woman. Some men will. It just depends.

 

How long are you willing to wait?

 

I did move in because I wanted to live with him. If the sole purpose of moving in together was to be engaged I would have waited until we were.

The issue that throws me is that he talks about marriage/children/weddings. Is it just wishful thinking on my part that he talks about those things with the intent to propose when he is ready?

 

As far as "waiting" goes. Like I have stated, I don't feel that breaking up with him because he won't marry me will make me happy. I would be devasted beyond belief. Perhaps when the lease on our apartment ends I will broach the subject again and see where we stand.

[EnigmaXOXO]

As you stated earlier, you don't need marriage because you have what you need while living together.

 

Actually, it’s more like: neither of us “need” marriage to prove and/or solidify our commitment to each other. Mutual love and respect is the ‘glue’ that bonds our relationship. As it should be in any relationship. Without those two things, married or not, all those promises and commitments you made to each other in the beginning will not stand the test of time. However begrudgingly you attempt to meet your obligations. For many, a good relationship and/or marriage is the difference between doing it because you still want to and doing it because you feel you have to.

 

Of course, I absolutely understand how non conventional unions might seem intangible to those who share a more traditional view ... but I assure you, we are as solid, committed to each other and as deeply in love as you and your wife are. I suspect our relationship feels every bit as “real” to us as your 18-year marriage does to you. But for the sake of eliminating any confusion or misinterpretation, I think it’s also important to clarify that (for us) we both shared our particular relationship philosophy before creating a home together rather than as a result of it. Like Girly and her boyfriend, we were both “on the same page” from the start of it and have remained so. There has never been any need to implement covert strong-arm tactics (or create a crisis) in order to force someone into making a choice they wouldn’t otherwise make if left to their own heart and mind. And therefore, no regret and/or accumulated resentments.

 

A man with a full belly has little use for even the best steak. (There...another saying! )

 

That’s cute ... but just as silly.

 

Having experienced long-term relationships from both sides, I can tell you that from my perspective it’s the quality of the relationship, not whether one is married or not, that makes all the difference in the world between steak and hamburger.

 

I don't know why I am driving myself crazy worrying about this. The purpose of the thread was more my paranoia that HE doesn't need marriage because we are living together. In my heart I know that he doesn't feel that way though.

 

Well there ya go! Save the worrying for this time next year if the relationship is going great but there’s still no ring on your finger like he promised. That’s when you’ll need to make the difficult choice about what you want to do.

[JamesM]

I did move in because I wanted to live with him. If the sole purpose of moving in together was to be engaged I would have waited until we were.

 

Perhaps you thought that this may bring you closer to marriage? Did you assume that living together was a step towards marriage, or did you think that this could be it?

 

The issue that throws me is that he talks about marriage/children/weddings. Is it just wishful thinking on my part that he talks about those things with the intent to propose when he is ready?

 

The key words are "when he is ready." Speaking from experience, "marriage is for adults, and I am not there yet." So I thought many years ago. Yes, he talks about marriage and children, but who brings up the subject? Do you think he says these things because he knows you want them? And even if he wants marriage, does he act like it is something he really wants, or is it something that he will someday want?

 

Big difference.

 

My guess is that he does want marriage and children...just not today. And then the question becomes why again. Is it because he is a little unsure of you, or is it simply because he doesn't feel he is "old enough?" And that is not as silly as it sounds. For most of us, marriage is the end of the carefree days. We no longer can be single again. Even though he is living with you, he knows it is still not marriage. Once he is married, he will never be able to say he is single even if he is divorced. Marriage means children and responsibility.

 

As far as "waiting" goes. Like I have stated, I don't feel that breaking up with him because he won't marry me will make me happy. I would be devasted beyond belief. Perhaps when the lease on our apartment ends I will broach the subject again and see where we stand.

 

Breaking up with him may not make you happy, but it may make you think. You may then decide that being with him is more important than marriage, and he may realize that marriage is something that he wants. Or he may date other women.

 

Right now, your relationship is standing still. Are you happy? Is he happy?

[JamesM]

Actually, it’s more like: neither of us “need” marriage to prove and/or solidify our commitment to each other.

 

And this is actually how it should be, but one cannot dismiss the fact that marriage is the public declaration and legalization of that commitment.

 

But for the sake of eliminating any confusion or misinterpretation, I think it’s also important to clarify that (for us) we both shared our particular relationship philosophy before creating a home together rather than as a result of it. Like Girly and her boyfriend, we were both “on the same page” from the start of it and have remained so.

 

This is the one point that I think needs to be made clear.

 

Girly and her BF are NOT on the same page, and that is why we have this thread. She wants marriage for her reasons, and he does not seem to want marriage...or at least not now.

 

While I certainly have my personal opinions regarding cohabitation and marriage...and my wife is in agreement, and you (Enigma) and your partner have personal opinions that are in agreement, the key here is that both partners do not seem to share the same view. Here in lies the "problem."

 

The question becomes...can you both continue on as is, or is marriage "necessary" for this relationship to remain together?