girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 You all have been so helpful in the short while I have posted, so I thought I would post about something else. I was having a conversation with my best friend the other day. She is married and lived with her boyfriend prior to getting engaged. I asked her if there is any difference between being married while living together as opposed to just living together. She basically said that they did not experience a difference in how they lived together pre/post marriage. I started to think about this I wonder if she is right about that. Does anyone agree with her opinion/experience? I'm curious to see what marriage as opposed to "just living together" will be like. Please advise me!
Lauriebell82 Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 I'm not married, but I do live with my boyfriend. I would think that it WOULD be relatively the same, but if marriage makes people change their personalities/expectations in the relationship then it might be quite different. Sounds like this is a personal problem: Are you scared that your bf is going to "change?" Are you scared he feels that way also?
Mahatma Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 In that case, it is only about commitment to that person. If you are living with them, you can still break up and its fairly simple. If you are married, it is a much larger commitment.
carhill Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t163356/ So, do you think you're on the 'same page'?
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 Thank you for the responses: LB: I'm not so much scared that he will change, more that I'm scared he is scared of the comittment due to the fact that it is harder to get out of. Mahatma: You are probably right about the fact that living together pre/marriage is the same except it is harder to get out of a marriage. Hmm, that's interesting (and kind of disheartening) that the only difference between the two is that you have to get a divorce in order to break up if you are married.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t163356/ So, do you think you're on the 'same page'? I think we are. He shows all the signs that he is ready to get married/that he wants to commit to me. But I guess I'm feeling like, "Okay we get along, have a great relationship, then what is he waiting for!"
norajane Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 I think we are. He shows all the signs that he is ready to get married/that he wants to commit to me. But I guess I'm feeling like, "Okay we get along, have a great relationship, then what is he waiting for!" What are those signs?
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 What are those signs? Hmm, well..I suppose that the only way he could show me that he is ready to get married is to propose. He commits to me in other ways (moved in together, we go to his parents for holidays), but he isn't committing to a marriage.
norajane Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Hmm, well..I suppose that the only way he could show me that he is ready to get married is to propose. He commits to me in other ways (moved in together, we go to his parents for holidays), but he isn't committing to a marriage. I think there's a difference between committing to living together and committing for a lifetime partnership. A big difference. I can't remember who it was that posted this, but in one of these marriage vs. living together threads, someone said: Living together should be something you decide to do AFTER you've committed to each other, not as A TEST of whether you should commit to each other. It sounds like you are committed to him in a lifetime partner way, but he is using the living together as a test to see if he wants to commit to you as a lifetime partner. If he were already committed and living together was a sign of that, he'd have proposed.
Star Gazer Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 I think there's a difference between committing to living together and committing for a lifetime partnership. A big difference. I can't remember who it was that posted this, but in one of these marriage vs. living together threads, someone said: Living together should be something you decide to do AFTER you've committed to each other, not as A TEST of whether you should commit to each other. It sounds like you are committed to him in a lifetime partner way, but he is using the living together as a test to see if he wants to commit to you as a lifetime partner. If he were already committed and living together was a sign of that, he'd have proposed. I couldn't agree more. I think many women commit in a lifetime-partner way by moving in, whereas many men think it's a test to see if they want the woman as a lifetime partner. If he did in fact have that level of commitment, they'd be engaged. Hence why I think moving in together prior to engagement is so very dangerous.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 I couldn't agree more. I think many women commit in a lifetime-partner way by moving in, whereas many men think it's a test to see if they want the woman as a lifetime partner. If he did in fact have that level of commitment, they'd be engaged. Hence why I think moving in together prior to engagement is so very dangerous. Thank you for your response. I went through and browsed the forum and discovered that TONS of other women have had this same exact issue. A lot of them had been together for 5 or more years though. It's been almost 2.5 years for us, is that too short of a time? I never thought that living together prior to marriage would hurt your chances of being married, as I know lots of couples who have gotten engaged/married after living together prior to engagement. We talked about engagement before we moved in, and we both agreed that we were doing it with the intent of getting married/engaged in the future. And in April that was fine with me. I was just getting on my feet (had gotten a good paying job) so I wasn't as ready to get married as I am now. I didn't expect that 5 months later we wouldn't be on the same page about this.
EnigmaXOXO Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 It’s exactly the same. I was married previously for fifteen years, and I’ve since been living with my partner going on nine. Although I’m much happier these days ... it has more to do with who I’m with now and the stage of life we’re at rather than our legally or religiously sanctioned marital status. All of that just seems so irrelevant and trivial in comparison to the relationship itself. Both marriages and live-in situations are wonderful ... IF you’re lucky enough to find yourselves with a partner who fits you just right. And once you find that, you’ll realize that the heart connection between you goes far beyond any title, label, license or definition you can possible put on it. “Marriage” (for some) is simply icing on the cake.
JamesM Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Having never lived with my wife (or any woman) prior to getting married, I cannot compare the two from experience. However, one huge difference between marriage and cohabitation is....well, marriage. Let me explain. When you marry, you publicly commit to one another. Even though we live in the era of no-fault divorce, most people still reverence the marriage vow and make a lot more effort at resolving issues that otherwise may lead to the breakup of unmarried couples. It is a fact that all relationships have ups and downs. What makes the difference in how long a relationship lasts is how the partners view their commitment to one another. If the idea is that we can split with little "grief," then it is easier to not search for a good solution for both people. If the idea is that we have committed for life, then there is usually a much greater likelihood that both partners will try to do everything to make it last. And even when one doesn't have that attitude immediately, then there is still the likelihood that one at least will search out a solution. For the largest proportions of marriages, divorce is not an option or it is a very distant choice. Commitment is the "glue" that keeps many marriages from breaking up when the feelings of love have seemingly disappeared. However, for those who simply cohabitate, then one of the options when things are not going well is "we will split if in the short term this is not working." So is my opinion ...from 18 1/2 years of marriage experience.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 It’s exactly the same. I was married previously for fifteen years, and I’ve since been living with my partner going on nine. Although I’m much happier these days ... it has more to do with who I’m with now and the stage of life we’re at rather than our legally or religiously sanctioned marital status. All of that just seems so irrelevant and trivial in comparison to the relationship itself. Both marriages and live-in situations are wonderful ... IF you’re lucky enough to find yourselves with a partner who fits you just right. And once you find that, you’ll realize that the heart connection between you goes far beyond any title, label, license or definition you can possible put on it. “Marriage” (for some) is simply icing on the cake. Thank you for your response. What you said makes a lot of sense. We both ARE lucky to have found each other, these have been such wonderful 2 1/2 years for both of us. I would never trade them for anything! You brought up a good point that "married or not" you should want to be with that person because you love them and can't imagine being without them. And that's how I feel. I don't ever want to be with anyone else. I also don't believe that moving out on him will make him propose or commit faster. He would not respond to that, actually he would be hurt that I left and I would never want him to feel that way. I know this all sounds like b.s. since I am saying I want to get married so bad. How can I relax and just forget about this? What can I do to be more patient? (because I will definately wait for him, I can't imagine life without him.)
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 Thank you so much James. I'm so glad I joined this site!!! I really understand what you are saying. We do both feel very strongly against divorce as both of our parents have been married for over 30 years. We have had our fights, we had 1 big blow out last year that really affected us both. We knew that we wanted to be together and get through the rough fight and we did. We are both very committed to our relationship. So I suppose when I say he is committed, he really is. If we have a fight it would be very easy to just pick up and leave, but we don't. We stay because we love each other. So what I am curious about is that if he agrees with that kind of committed why hasn't he proposed?
JamesM Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Thank you so much James. I'm so glad I joined this site!!! You are welcome. Having been here almost three years, I agree. Coming here was one of the good things that have happened in my life. I have learned much from many people here. So what I am curious about is that if he agrees with that kind of committed why hasn't he proposed? Because belief and action are miles apart. I believe that the dentist is good for me, but I hesitate and hate to go. And yes, the comparison is somewhat accurate. Why? Because if I enjoyed the dentist, I would be there ASAP. So it goes with marriage. If he is honest, then he may simply be scared of marriage. I know I was. Marriage is a much bigger commitment than cohabitation. Living together can end with emotional heartbreak but that is all. However, divorce is more than that. It breaks up your life in every area. Have you ever noticed that they don't list breakups in the paper? No, they only list divorces. Marriage is much more than a paper. license or certificate. It is a public acknowledgment of a commitment that gives the partners many legal rights to each other's physical assets. Marriage creates a legal family. While it is easy to say that the marriage license does not mean we are more committed, this is not what government or society actually practices. Why should he propose? What will he gain in his opinion?
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 I think there's a difference between committing to living together and committing for a lifetime partnership. A big difference. I can't remember who it was that posted this, but in one of these marriage vs. living together threads, someone said: Living together should be something you decide to do AFTER you've committed to each other, not as A TEST of whether you should commit to each other. It sounds like you are committed to him in a lifetime partner way, but he is using the living together as a test to see if he wants to commit to you as a lifetime partner. If he were already committed and living together was a sign of that, he'd have proposed. I really don't think he wanted to do it as a "test." We had stayed together a lot for extended periods of time (like 3 weeks-1 month) before moving in together, so we had an idea what the other person was like on a day to day basis (aside from paying bills together). I thought we did it for the same reason and it was right at the time. It still is, though I am ready for marriage right now and apparently he is not. We still enjoy living together though, our relationship is wonderful and I don't want to live without him. But marriage is important to me, as he says it is to him. So again I ask: What is his hesitation?
JamesM Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 But marriage is important to me, as he says it is to him. Why is marriage so important to you if living together is really no different than marriage? So again I ask: What is his hesitation? IMO he is afraid. The question is of what.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 You are welcome. Having been here almost three years, I agree. Coming here was one of the good things that have happened in my life. I have learned much from many people here. Because belief and action are miles apart. I believe that the dentist is good for me, but I hesitate and hate to go. And yes, the comparison is somewhat accurate. Why? Because if I enjoyed the dentist, I would be there ASAP. So it goes with marriage. If he is honest, then he may simply be scared of marriage. I know I was. Marriage is a much bigger commitment than cohabitation. Living together can end with emotional heartbreak but that is all. However, divorce is more than that. It breaks up your life in every area. Have you ever noticed that they don't list breakups in the paper? No, they only list divorces. Marriage is much more than a paper. license or certificate. It is a public acknowledgment of a commitment that gives the partners many legal rights to each other's physical assets. Marriage creates a legal family. While it is easy to say that the marriage license does not mean we are more committed, this is not what government or society actually practices. Why should he propose? What will he gain in his opinion? He will gain a loving wife and a wonderful mother for his children. I will love and support him, we will buy a house, build a life together. That's what marriage is in my opinion, and he wants all those things. I think you are right that he is scared. So how does he get "un-scared?"
JamesM Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 He will gain a loving wife and a wonderful mother for his children. I will love and support him, we will buy a house, build a life together. That's what marriage is in my opinion, and he wants all those things. None of those thing listed cannot be obtained while two people live together. You may not be his wife, but you fulfill every "duty" or responsibility that a wife does, don't you? My neighbors live together, have a child, and are now building a new house. They are building a life together in every sense. What does marriage bring that cohabitation does not? When that question is answered, then I think that the value of marriage can be realized. I think you are right that he is scared. So how does he get "un-scared?" What he needs to realize is that in reality while everything changes when you become married, paradoxically nothing changes.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 Why is marriage so important to you if living together is really no different than marriage? IMO he is afraid. The question is of what. Marriage is important to me, because I want to commit myself to my boyfriend in front of God and my family and friends. It declares our love to the world, celebrates our relationship. It's the greater committment then living together is. Yes, he most likely is afraid. How do I find out what that is? I am hesistant to ask him because i do not want him to percieve that as pressure.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 None of those thing listed cannot be obtained while two people live together. You may not be his wife, but you fulfill every "duty" or responsibility that a wife does, don't you? My neighbors live together, have a child, and are now building a new house. They are building a life together in every sense. What does marriage bring that cohabitation does not? When that question is answered, then I think that the value of marriage can be realized. What he needs to realize is that in reality while everything changes when you become married, paradoxically nothing changes. I believe that children, buying property, ect. should be reserved for marriage. Those are just the morals I grew up with and I do not with to do them outside of wedlock. Like I said, marriage brings a whole lot of things. Deeper committment, public declaration, recognized by God. Living together doesn't do that.
EnigmaXOXO Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 As Carhill pointed out, being on the same page as your partner with this can make all the difference in the world. If not, what usually happens is that one person reluctantly (and sometimes resentfully) gives in, or you find the issue of “marriage” turning into the only point of contention between two people who are wonderful together in every other way. It can sometimes create a problem where otherwise none exists. I think if marriage is something you whole-heartedly want, than marriage is something you should definitely strive for. Never short-change yourself if it means you’ll look back on your life with regret. However, there comes a time when you must step back and honestly weigh what it is you want against who you might stand to lose in the process. Should the idea of being married ever become more important to you than the one you’re with, than it’s definitely time to say goodbye, cut your loses and bow out gracefully. As much as it may break your heart. However, I would never recommend saying “goodbye” to your partner unless you truly mean it and are absolutely prepared to follow through. At least not as any sort of bluff, manipulation tactic or coercion. Otherwise, he may very well take your exit seriously and not come around to your way of thinking in the way you hope ... leaving you with all the more heartbreak and regret. When it comes to patience, there’s really no set timeline. I suspect that when you’ve finally run out of it, you’ll already know it. Good Luck ... and congratulations for finding yourself in a HAPPY relationship. These days, they seem so few and far in between! You’re so much luckier than most than you even realize.
JamesM Posted September 9, 2008 Posted September 9, 2008 Well, one easy way is to say that since marriage is so important to you that you will only live with him if he is willing to make the serious commitment for life and marry you. As it is now, (and I say this as if he were me), he has no reason really to be married except that it is important to you. What is odd to me is that both of you come from homes with marriages that have stood the test of time. Usually, this makes for less of a fear of marriage. IMO, there are two reasons for the fear of marriage (and I am sure that there are more): Fear of commitment because of the observation of poor marriages while growing up (ie either divorce or unhappy marriages). Fear of marriage because in his deepest mind, he is a bit reluctant to commit to you. And I don't say that to hurt you. I say it from experience. When I dated my wife, she began pressuring me for marriage. I felt that if I did not become engaged, then I would lose her. So for her sake, I did so. While I did not completely feel committed to spending my life with her, the thought of losing her was very saddening. So I did as she wanted. After we were engaged, I began to lose sleep and become depressed. My whole life became a bundle of anxiety. Finally, I told her that I was not ready for marriage. She said "Fine, then we break up." She expected me to back down which I usually did. I said "Ok." We split for a month but kept in contact. (In fact, the next day, she called me to visit because she needed someone to talk with.) Suddenly marriage for her was less important than losing me. Long story short we did get back together and became engaged again. Ironically, our first engagement was in May with the marriage planned for the following May 25. Our second engagement was in December with the wedding actually happening May 18. So who actually "won?" I have never regretted the breakup or the re-engagement. While life has never been perfect, I do believe that she is the best for me and I for her. My point is that sometimes it takes a crisis to realize our feelings. I am not suggesting that you create a crisis, but continuing day by day without a confrontation will simply be an avoidance of the problem. Yet I cannot stress the importance for a long term and committed marriage, you BOTH need to feel that this is what you both want.
Author girlygirl25 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Posted September 9, 2008 Thank you both very much for helping me, I really appreciate it. The problem is that when we first moved in together we were on the same page about marriage. We wanted it for our future, but weren't quite thinking about getting engaged yet. We did move in together with the intent that it was going to happen. Now fast forward 5 some months, I'm ready and I guess he isn't..or doesn't want to be. He has told me that he loves me and he wants us to get married someday. He is scared, however. Should I ask him?
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